- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
Several service members told advocacy groups they felt like pawns in a political game and assignment was unnecessary
California national guards troops and marines deployed to Los Angeles to help restore order after days of protest against the Trump administration have told friends and family members they are deeply unhappy about the assignment and worry their only meaningful role will be as pawns in a political battle they do not want to join.
Three different advocacy organisations representing military families said they had heard from dozens of affected service members who expressed discomfort about being drawn into a domestic policing operation outside their normal field of operations. The groups said they have heard no countervailing opinions.
“The sentiment across the board right now is that deploying military force against our own communities isn’t the kind of national security we signed up for,” said Sarah Streyder of the Secure Families Initiative, which represents the interests of military spouses, children and veterans.
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I hope they live with this shame forever
I hope the ones that don’t feel shame from this, soon feel deep shame, and the ones that feel shame from this act in ways that no longer cause shame.
You hope for immortal troops to occupy us cities? I guess you like a challenge.
Monkey’s paw: troops are immortal.
Would actually suck for them too. Reminds me of the line in 300: “May you live forever.” It is most certainly not a blessing.
And in interesting times no less!
They could believe ypu carry sha,e into an afterlife should they believe in one.
Ehh seems like a stretch, have to assume too many things.
You’ve tried surviving in the US on “Hard”, mode, now try the new “Nightmare” difficulty!
How about invading a country halfway around the world that didn’t do anything to us?
That should be a great morale booster, historically.
Oh, do I have news for you: https://apnews.com/live/israel-iran-attack
Judging by the suicide rates, that wasn’t either.
The main difference there is that they can be unfamiliar with that country and believe what they are told about it.
Hard to be unfamiliar with the country you grew up in, and only 30% of the population is willing to believe what they are being told about it now despite their life experiences not showing that to be the case. I mean since when have those types of people been “scared” of Californians?
Hard to be unfamiliar with the country you grew up in
If anyone can do it, it’s Americans. I’ve had arguments with Americans who insist that New Mexico is in Mexico despite it being called New Mexico.
I think the primary difference here is they know the population they’re oppressing so it’s difficult to wholly believe the propaganda.
When being imperialists abroad, they’re fed a steady stream of propaganda about how they’re the hero, that they’re saving democracy, babies, capitalism, and what not. Most of them don’t speak the language and have difficulty relating to the local population. Americans are notoriously ignorant of everything outside the US (fine, in the US too) and the locals they’re defrauding are understandably afraid and/or hostile, so many don’t learn otherwise or don’t want to accept otherwise. Imagine the blow to the psyche of switching gears from “great American saviour” to “brown kid murder machine to make rich people richer”. That’s tough.
Now the lies are much harder to believe. They speak the language, share the culture, and some are at least vaguely familiar with the events leading up to these protests. While 1/3 of the US population are utter numpties, the remaining 2/3 are at least likely redeemable and some of that larger fraction is likely present in the military. They know what they’re doing is wrong and don’t believe the propaganda telling them otherwise.
Now we’ll see if any have the courage to stand against this. I’m not holding my breath.
This is part of why Russian troops faced and still face severe morale dips in Ukraine, because Ukrainians can speak directly to them and ask them what they are doing and why they are killing them.
Please. Please. Please. Come on boys, just read the Constitution, you didn’t sign up for this shit.
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A judge ruled the troops can remain there for now.
Good. They should be troubled. This is utterly fucked.
Can’t wait for the Nürnberger defense
Their orders are illegal, thus disobeying them is not insubordination or illegal.
These orders will be made legal as judges have no more basis in us of a
If that were true, why do they keep getting their asses handed to them in court, and why do they keep complying with those rulings?
Not just not subordination following them is specifically illegal and historically “I was following orders” has NEVER been justification or gotten anyone off their charges. You follow illegal orders YOU are a criminal as much as your commanding officer.
Unfortunately for the most part with only a few exceptions “I was following orders” has in fact, always worked to get people off scott free for war crimes except in cases where they were committed by a nation that lost the war.
That’s not how military orders work.
Tell me you never served in the military without telling me you never served in the military.
I think we are talking past eachother here. We can talk a lot about what an illegal order is; how there is training to disobey one, but that is talking about how things ought to be not how they actually are. For example, we all have agreed to not speed and taken training on it as well, yet it happens all too often. It is not unreasonable to believe that a soldier will follow an illegal order because they want to or there is enough coercion.
I would argue that the deployment orders for the 2003 Iraq war were illegal, but the people who refused to follow them are the ones who got in trouble.
Except the army’s own government website explicitly says otherwise
Any member of the military has a commonly understood obligation to disobey an illegal order;
https://www.army.mil/article/47175/breaking_ranks_dissent_and_the_military_professional
Odd that this page is still online…
Fascists are not the brightest
How do they work?
Is it possible to refuse to follow an order because you believe it is illegal?
Basically yeah, you can refuse, but that’s the more absolute form. What you should do if you suspect the legality of an order is to ask it in writing, register that you don’t want to follow, but will comply.
Then afterwards you’ll be less responsible. Depends on what it’s about, you can’t just register a complaint about killing kids and then do it anyway, but like for milder illegal orders.
They can be court martialed either way. Literally an entire movie about it and a phrase that gets used everyday. Cache 22
Catch 22 isn’t about illegal orders. The contradiction is more about your own sanity/safety.
There’s a book called Catch 22. Looks like the made a movie of it. The book is the funniest thing I’ve ever read. Made me think about how crazy fighting is. Sort of like a funny Slaughterhouse-Five.
Neither mentioned illegal orders as far as I remember. Was the movie quite different?
We read very different books. I thought the first half was hilarious, but it lulled me into a comfort of the absurdity and the banality that set up an absolutely devastating second half.
I think it’s one of the greatest books I’ve ever read, but I don’t think it was a comedy.
Surely it’s a Catch 22, not a hidden supply of 22s stashed away somewhere?
No thats actually cache 21, duh!
Sure and once the military court sees the order was illegal you’re not going to be held responsible
I hope military court works more fairly than civilian court.
Pretty much the opposite. Civilian courts generally offer more constitutional protections. Military courts can say something was contrary to “good order and discipline” aka my favorite article of the UCMJ - Article 134 - and lol, you’re fucked.
Yes.
It is 100% how military orders work. Members have an obligation to not carry out unlawful orders. I’ve yet to hear of any NATO aligned force where this isn’t drilled into people’s heads from the get-go.
Granted, given the state of the law in the U.S. these days…we’ll have to see how things go down.
Didn’t they say that any government is immoral in general. They exist because of robbing (taxing) and coercing population, create wars that nobody appreciates, lying over and over about pretty much everything. Mango Mussolini (trump) is just another puppet and all that shit show in LA and Mask is only being done to distract attention from something more important that we’re going to see soon. Either enforcement of CBDC, another scamdemic, complete surveillance like in 1984 or some war. All the countries participating in genocide of Occupied Palestine and Ukraine. They send funds and Palantir testing new weapons. Soon enough these weapons will be used against all of us.
Trust the plan and vote harder behind the shower curtain.
#jonesplantation #barnumworld
In just hoping that ICE is dumb enough to try to arrest and deport one of the Marines in front of their co-workers just like they do with civilians.
Please let this happen everywhere at once. This is the kind of thing we need to get the rank and file in there to stand up to the enemy within. ICE shouldn’t be smart enough to wait for their contracts to end and they can do it quietly away from their comrades in arms.
We have a Traitor in the White House that is using the military like his personal toy. It is sickening.
History will absolutely consider Donald Trump an American traitor. A LOT of people just can’t see that from within the situation. They’ll only be able to see it in hindsight, if at all. It’s really sad.
If you lie about an election, you are a traitor.
If you send a mob to stop the certification of an election, you are a traitor.
If you bend the knee to authoritarian leaders, you are a traitor.
If you irreparably damage our alliances by threatening our allies, you are a traitor.
If you steal classified documents and then refuse to give them back, you are a traitor.
If you send the military to threaten/assault American citizens, you are a traitor.
If you spend every day in, and out, of office dividing Americans, you are a traitor.
Treason doth never prosper; what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.- John Harrington
Don’t forget the 77 million traitors voted for Trump and his mass deportation campaign.
This is important to remember. His supporters are ALL traitors. This isn’t 2016. They weren’t bamboozled. They have voted for him THREE TIMES. They are traitors to our nation and everything it’s supposed to stand for.
Do not trust them. Do not hire them. Do not help them. In any way.
Yes they did. Truly sickening.
Remember that kid who didn’t respect his toys, and always busted them up by driving them down the stairs, and smashing them into each other? He didn’t care because he knew his parents would just buy him more. Then he’d come to your house, and you had to tell him that certain toys were off limits because you knew he’d destroy them?
That’s HitlerPig and the military. It’s just another toy he can abuse until it breaks.
Thanks for this. So much noise in the news, but this is what the US citizens need rn
No, US citizens need a military that disobeys illegal orders. All of these marines are complicit. Who gives a fuck if they’re sad about it?
More than one thing can be true at once.
To be fair to the soldiers here: I can understand that a soldier who is tasked with guarding a federal building has trouble judging whether or not that is an illegal order. As a good example, deploying NG to the capitol on J6 would not have been giving illegal orders.
There is a line between legal “guarding federal property and persons” and “displacing the police to illegally suppress protests”.
At the largest demonstration since Trump first intervened, last Sunday, the national guard was hemmed into a staging area by Los Angeles police cruisers and played almost no role in crowd control. Since then, its service members have been deployed to guard buildings and federal law enforcement convoys conducting immigration sweeps. The marines, who arrived on Wednesday, are expected to play a similar function, with no powers of arrest.
Jayzuz. What a shit show.
They were pushing crowds away and making arrests yesterday I think.
any video of this? because i haven’t seen this at all.
I feel like I specifically saw them pushing back a crowd on one of the stream yesterday and making a line quite far from any building entrance. I thought I saw one of the news networks reporting on an arrest by them but I can’t find anything about it. Mostly hearsay.
Weird that they aren’t stopping if it makes them feel like the bad guys
So they are just going to whine…but then do it anyway?
Dishonorable discharges fuck your life up, but go off
You got the choice to stand up and say no. No I will not use my weapons on my own fucking people because some geriatric PoS is having a terrible twos tantrum because everyone hates his ass.
Do what’s right or be remembered as the ones who did wrong.
