- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
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Twitter disappears when racism ends. Twitter will stay the cesspool it is.
Twitter dies when advertisers realize there’s no money in paying to advertise there. The moment it becomes more advantageous to pay for the ads somewhere else, it collapses.
No. I thought so too, but it’s not the case anymore. Elon is so rich now, that he can run Twitter just as his personal propaganda media. same as bezos bought that newspaper.
Not when Elon can sue companies into continuing to advertise on Twitter.
It should be Mastodon. This is the same shit with a different name
I wish some entrepreneur had instead created an amazing fucking Mastodon instance and put all that marketing and engineering dollar into the platform. But you can’t own Mastodon so you can’t ever sell Mastodon so those types of folks will never invest in Mastodon. We could just say “fuck ‘em” but they have done a serious job of monopolizing the time of all the talented people who know how to make something like this go.
There was a good explanation about why not mastodon the other day. It basically boils down to Bluesky is just an easier transition.
Bluesky is (in theory) federated, but I think you can’t run your own server yet. We’ll see if they keep their promise.
Its protocol has some improvements over ActivityPub, for example you can use a domain name you own as your username even if you’re not hosting your own instance, and your user identity is portable in that case - you can move to a different instance but keep the same username.
They’ve followed through on their promises so far, and you can actually self-host pretty much the whole stack today:
https://alice.bsky.sh/post/3laega7icmi2q
I’d perfer for mastodon to take off personally, but really at this point both are good options and worlds better than twitter.
They took crypto bros VC money.
Do we really think they’ll allow mass federation without getting returns on their investment?
It would be an abdicaton of the duties of the people in charge of running the business of bluesky to not create leverage points where serious monetization can occur.
Like seriously… that is called Not Doing Your Job and usually leads to getting replaced by someone who will.
I feel like it is too easy to get stuck in the weeds discussing arcane details of a massively complex system such as ActivityPub and bluesky and the virtues and faults of those details while ignoring the much more easy to predict and understand truth that decentralization is fundamentally at odds with monetization or consolidated control.
Investors in bluesky coughed up the money for the same reason any sane person invests large sums of money…to get more money.
What’s the difference, really? Aren’t they both decentralized microblogging social networks?
One is a product with investors selling itself on promises of decentralization (bluesky), the other is a genuine community tool (mastodon) that actually provides decentralization.
Bluesky is mit licensed, if it goes bad what’s to stop a fork? Once there’s interop between the protocols will it matter at all?
There are a million ways open platforms can be undermined, especially when serious money stands to be gained from it. See basically all of human history as exhibit A…
Can you give a specific example of how bluesky could be?
yes, see this thread
https://social.wildeboer.net/@jwildeboer/113487613965056474
“#BlueSky isn’t decentralised or federated. The outage yesterday is the obvious proof. It may look decentralised and they definitely love to outsource traffic and storage costs by claiming that running your own PDS (Personal Data Server) is somehow something federated, but that’s all smoke and mirrors. You have to go deep on [1] to find “networking through Relays instead of server-to-server” as their current implementation choice. THEY run the relays. No one else.”
You can run your own relay, though:
https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/entries/Notes on Running a Full-Network atproto Relay (July 2024)
I do prefer Activitypub overall, and it’s certainly more mature, but any efforts towards decentralization should be encouraged/celebrated.
Not 100% sure but I don’t think anything would stop either a fork or a new app that uses the same protocol.
I really don’t see how it could matter tbh
I think lemmy should get atproto support too.
Mastodon is more of a protocol than a single service. It succeeds/fails on those terms, in the same way the old Web1.0 protocols did. Which is to say, you can’t enshitify a thousand micro-sites at once like you can enshittify one big site that’s under central control. But you also can’t do things like navigate, search, and socialize efficiently.
Mastodon is successful in large part because it isn’t. When you let a single cartel of corporate psychos run a Mastodon account like they would a Twitter or Facebook, you end up with Truth Social (literally just a Mastodon branch instance).
That’s an interesting perspective. Do you think the same about lemmy? While also decentralized using the sameprotocol, it seems reasonably efficient to me. I’m from a small instance from my country, and the global content is easily available to me.
I just have a lot of trouble explaining how it works to people who aren’t tech savy… this is what I consider the main issue withthe fediverse as a whole.
Do you think the same about lemmy?
I think it depends on how the federated sites are administered going forward. We’ve already seen bigger sites - like Threads, for instance - try to integrate into the overall ecosystem. And I could see a future in which one of the larger instances - a .world or .sh.itjust.works - is too much for a handful of amateur admins to handle. Hand off the instance to a venture capital firm and you could see rapid enshitification.
I just have a lot of trouble explaining how it works to people who aren’t tech savy…
I’m reasonably tech savvy and even I’d struggle to tell you exactly how it works. How is .world hosted? Is it load-balanced or otherwise optimized? Who controls registration and which other instances does it integrate with? How do you find a list of active instances to federate against? Who do you even talk to in order to federate with another instance? What does the API look like and which instances allow you to crawl them? How do bots integrate with the environment and what can an admin do to limit them? No idea.
There’s a bunch of things I think I should be able to do but I can’t. For instance, signing into .world but only surfing content that’s hosted on .sh.itjust.works.
There’s also a lot of petty politics. Admins deciding on a whim who to block, whether it be individuals or whole instances. Waking up one day and suddenly not having access to a dozen of my favorite subs, because two admins are feuding, is not particularly fun. I never have a problem like that on BlueSky or Instagram.
a .world or .sh.itjust.works - is too much for a handful of amateur admins to handle. Hand off the instance to a venture capital firm and you could see rapid enshitification.
Lemmy is federalized. It is expected that many .worlders would just jump ship to another instance. And I don’t see how the venture capital firm could stop them… For as long as one organization doesn’t control 60%+ of all user’s instances we should be unshitifiable. It is possible for enshitification to happen… but it is of a greater difficulty, because the other non-shit instances still exist and they are federated, thus able to access the same content.
They could try and pull up the drawbridge and de-federate from every other instance that isn’t under the control of the firm so that the content of the venture capital instances are exclusive, but for as long as they don’t control 60%+ of all user’s instances we are good.
It is not to hard to imagine that, if .world where to be sold like that, half or more would jump ship. At least that’s what I hope.
It is expected that many .worlders would just jump ship to another instance.
Why? Why wouldn’t they just consume the click bait content and shameless pandering propagated by the incoming owner, just like folks still on Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit?
For as long as one organization doesn’t control 60%+ of all user’s instances
You don’t need 60% of instances. You need the plurality of site content. That’s what the users are coming for.
We’ve already seen bigger sites - like Threads, for instance - try to integrate into the overall ecosystem.
People complain that the mainstream sites are relatively closed ecosystems, but they also complain when those sites try to be more open ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
People don’t like the monolith when it’s over there and they don’t like it when it comes over here, either
read about embrace/extend/extinguish to see why
ActivityPub is the protocol though. Mastodon is an implementation of the protocol.
It needs A) same functionality B) ban all forms of racism, especially Zionism and C) refuse investment from undemocratic nations like GCC or China
yeah I don’t think a usa based platform is really “long gaming” the fee speech problem. Bluesky now shifting to monetization plans. Its a matter of time until some rich dildo buys it up. If were lucky it will be mark cuban or somebody buts its still grim prospects.
Agreed. It needs to be in a country like Switzerland or some such.
Cuban has deleted much of his anti trump talk, high odds the man is hunkering down.
Remember, trumps been promising vengeance to “enemies” for well over a year now, and now he has immunity from prosecution.
“Fee speech” is a serendipitous typo. Or maybe you meant it. First I’ve heard it, anyway.
Or USA 🤭 they just killed their democracy hard
They should definitely not allow investment from anyone associated with Trump admin, the Pentagon etc.
What’s with the consistent amount of “American Democracy is dead” rhetoric I’ve been seeing lately? It’s not like Trump is president yet. And sure, Biden isn’t going to make too much impact as a lame duck, but even after Trump takes office again, there’s a lot he can do, and a whole lot more he won’t be able to. The power is still in the hands of the people, especially at the local level. America’s democracy isn’t dead, and saying anything of the sort is obeying in advance.
Oh you sweet summer child.
A key component of 2016-2020 was Trump was surrounded by people who wouldn’t, including generals who wouldn’t entertain his talk of maybe using nukes. It’s not that he couldn’t in 2016-2020, it’s that he was surrounded by people who wouldn’t and he didn’t know how himself.
That’s no longer the case. And the people around him have studied up on how.
One of his first big speeches post win this week, claiming to be about defending 1A, he states he’s going to use/mobilize “my Department of Justice” to prosecute anyone trying to enforce the Hatch Act. The Hatch Act is the thing that keeps polling locations safe and neutral. The Hatch Act prevents the threatening of voters in or within 100yds of polling locations, as well as making the buying of votes illegal. That latter part keeps voting free.
Think about the possibilities. Think hard. In fact, if you’re a creative type, sit down and write a short story about what that could look like on the present political climate.
He’s reading a script, the entire speech lacks his usual meandering bullshit. It’s cagey. He totally didn’t write it. The only piece that smells like trump is the piece about no longer being able to ban social media accounts without a court order, probably because that’s personal for him.
And remember. SCOTUS basically said he can do anything while President without fear of prosecution. It’s simply that Biden is unwilling to go there that we haven’t seen what that looks like yet.
I don’t read hard left media for this info. I listen to direct talk, from Trump, from his people, and listen to/read interviews with individuals in or very close to the 2016-2020 term. I then find a historian or lawyer who can add nuance. I then read the hive mind of We The People and other countries for more perspective.
Have you seen Project 2025, Trump’s unofficial but kind of official election plan? Republicans have all three branches of government now. They would have to willingly choose to not follow their own proposed plan, and there’s no reason to do that. So, logically, they will execute it - and that’s it. The end of US democracy.
Go read it or summaries of it if you think it’s hyperbole.
It’s not a bullet list or headline so they’re going to continue to ignore all 996 pages of it.
Yea, have you heard about project 2025?
With choosing trump, the American people have chosen that they approve that project.
At least, so do I see it.
If you tell people now that Democracy is dead, they don’t bother fighting the real fight, if and when push comes to shove.
Dems said this election is the end of Democracy, but still put an uninspiring right candidate. They said Trump is the fascist danger to all the US stands for. But having him and his crownies dismantled by getting criminal charges on them seemed to go too far. When grassroots movements came up and demanded change instead of embracing them, taking them seriously and talking with them properly, they were shunned and pushed down.
Now the greatest danger to corporate America are people to start organizing and taking to the streets. So hammer down the defeatist message, so the people suck up to their corporate overlords. The corporate overlords who won yet another election as both candidates represented their class interests.
I just don’t see how that broken down old man who says they’re eating the cats and dogs is inspiring to anyone. But then I don’t vote on inertia.
Because Trump voters are poorly educated, and frankly, stupid.
You heard something about eating cats and dogs, they heard someone telling them that Those people they don’t like are doing horrible things, and he will make things even with Those people.
Literally a dog whistle, but you have to be a blithering moron to understand it, because anyone who isn’t just hears a senile old dumbass saying stupid shit.
One of my parents, not Trumpers in spite of age, thinks Vance is trolling him to 25th him later. Either way, that tired, not looking too good medically, old man isn’t likely for long going forward. I think this is a Vance, Heritage, Musk game. Game in full essence of the word where Musk is concerned. That egomaniacal child of Apartheid is even playing with Putin. Evidence even of thwarting Ukraine insofar as he is able.
I’m not sure I buy that: Trump is a cult, and his cultists are going to have an absolute riotous fit if someone tries to depose him.
Short of him dying or doing something you just can’t ignore - like, say, he eats shit out of his diaper on national tv - he’s not going anywhere.
Vance isn’t smart enough to 6D chess his way into the presidency without his nominal constituency rioting over it, so I’m doubtful that’s his play.
He’s probably just going to pull the last-guy-in-the-room thing, since that’s the only person Trump listens to or remembers anyway which means you keep the cultists happy AND you get the figurehead to do what you want anyways without the mess.
refuse investment from undemocratic nations like GCC or China
:-/
If I was being honest I’d add “literally anyone whos firm has any connections to a NATO government” but then I’d be called a consoiracy theorist. But as for GCC, that’s a more direct threat to lives of dissidents.
That’s not going to happen here. Am I the only one who watched Trumps speech claiming to be about 1A? He is coming for social media day 1, to reinforce Elon Musk, not only on Twitter, but all other large social media platforms (he doesn’t name FB and Reddit, but he’s talking about FB and Reddit, maybe as far down as Lemmy, BlueSky & Mastadon too, idk).
He says he’s going to mobilize “my Department of Justice” to do it.
He specifically says: making account removal/banning only possible via court order, removing moderation, and removing any labels of misinformation or disinformation.
He’s already threatening YouTube with removal of section 230, if they moderate content.
Why is no one talking about this?
Wait, Trump is doing what? Can you link some sources?
It’s a YouTube video of his speech. Asmongold has a reaction video as do other people who make their living on YouTube, but the shortest take is the original posted by that dipshit RFK Jr. 6min. Only 234k views, probably because it’s buried on RFK Jrs bullshit. It’s the vid with the giant green crayon all caps subtitles. Idk why they captioned it that way, but, they did.
I wouldn’t get too excited. Humans as a whole aren’t particularly smart and it only takes a small percentage of bad actors and super dipshits to spread misinformation like a cancer no matter what platform you’re on.
Our species wasn’t prepared for the internet. We should be adding courses to public education teaching how to separate fact from fiction and how to find and utilize reliable sources, but instead we gleefully elected a party that ran on deconstructing the public education system.
Oops.
Tech journalists never learn anything from history. No Vc-funded social media is good
Most humans seem incapable of understanding why decentralization of power matters.
Mastodon should revamp the project’s website homepage and promote a mobile apps with the closest Twitter-like feel or maybe a page for it without giving too many options (so people trying to promote it would share the link and people who aren’t familiar with federation not think its weird “non-official” websites promoting multiple apps), these people just want convenience and most are mobile users. I wish most would go to Mastodon but there are so many barries going from something quick and convenient like Twitter to something like a Fediverse social media, I think Pixelfed catches this issue better of looking closer to what people are used to (in their case, an alternative to Instagram) than Mastodon (alternative to Twitter)
The default iPhone app and sign-up process for the main instance is pretty darn straight-forward. I’ve never been a Twitter guy so I can’t speak to functionality, but it seems fine to me already.
Some VC funded social media is certainly less fascist than other VC funded social media.
Given everything we’ve seen over theast little while, including the process of non-profits getting taken over by their VC funded subsidiaries; that difference you see is almost certainly a matter of being at a different point in their respective profit timelines.
I’m not sure it will, and I don’t really want it to. Twitter is a shithole in part because of the userbase. If Twitter dies, the users will move to Bluesky and make that shitty too. I’m already seeing porn bots appearing in my feeds with as small a userbase as there is!
That’s valid, luckily, Threads seems to be taking all the alt right extremists, Mastodon is taking all the programmers, and Bluesky is taking all the furries and LGBTQ
And I’ll be right there with Bluesky, it’s so much better on every issue, significantly fewer bots, no ads, no premium version, and no AI
Yet. Mind you, they are VC-backed. Eventually they will enshittify it.
then stay at twitter 🤷♂️ for now blue sky is many people’s choice for a reason.
That’s really not the only possible move
Nothing lasts forever. But for now, it’s decent enough.
Sure. On the other hand, I’m not sure it’s a good idea to make a new home at a platform with an investment from crypto bros, that will eventually become Twitter/X 2.0. https://universeodon.com/@cryptadamist/113472115447080382
I have never heard of this VC before. What is it? /gen
https://bsky.social/about/blog/10-24-2024-series-a
Crypto bros 🫡
I’ve started removing trash sites. I blocked twatter and reddit at my router.
🎼It’s gonna be Blue~~~ Ski~~e~s for you~ and I~ 🎶
Ha ha ha, yeah, sure. Bluesky won’t defeat xitter, at best it’ll just be the “next thing” once xitter finally finishes getting rid of most of its users, which I guess will take more than 4 years from now.
I don’t understand how those two things are distinct.
I guess they don’t consider it bluesky defeating twitter if twitter is commiting suicide. Sounds like pedantry to me.
He on that “reddit didn’t kill Digg, Digg killed Digg” mindset.
For reference: https://d3.harvard.edu/platform-digit/submission/the-demise-of-digg-how-an-online-giant-lost-control-of-the-digital-crowd/
Digg did commit suicide. I was there for it.
The Digg bar is why I stopped using Digg
The key factor in Digg’s demise was a flawed design that was too easily abused by users. Digg had no controls over user verification, so individuals could game the system by creating multiple accounts to artificially inflate the number of votes for their own content. Because Digg displayed content in order of popularity, most visitors saw and voted only on content that was already popular. This system created a vicious cycle in which a small number of dedicated users could push their own content to the front page and thereby gain more followers, allowing them to more easily repeat the process. As Digg grew, so too did its problems related to power-hungry users cheating and gaining undue influence over content.
Sounds like the same problem that every centralized social media ecosystem suffers from. The big difference between Digg and Reddit was that Reddit successfully monetized the “push me to the front of the queue” algorithm rather than engineering around it.
It’ll only defeat X if corporations and specifically media and sports entities start using it.
The great thing about BlueSky is how under-the-radar its flown for the last few years. Virtually no advertising. No legions of bot accounts spamming with invites and generic attention baiting posts. No |>u33y N |3io blowing up my mentions. No enshittification, because its just a primitive clone of the original Bird Site.
The more popular it gets, the less likely that’ll last. BlueSky won’t defeat Twitter until it becomes Twitter.
It will almost certainly become Twitter as it was created by the Twitter founder. The only difference being that it will become the Twitter from before Musk took over. Which is a massive difference.
The only difference being that it will become the Twitter from before Musk took over.
Dorsey is just as emotionally stunted and socially reactionary as Musk. He simply isn’t as wealthy.
BlueSky has thrived not because Dorsey crafted it into a purer vision, but because he’s neglected it and allowed the user base to have their way.
I never liked Twitter to begin with so I’m not one to defend him. My preferred one is Mastodon, but generally I don’t like the format to begin with. At any rate, I’ll still take pre-musk Twitter over Xitter any day.
Things were better before they got worse, sure.
But the problem in these systems is the trade off between centralization (consolidated control and monolithic content) and federation (poor navigation/petty administrative feuds/less quality content). Switching from Twitter to BlueSky relieves you from the current admin’s fuckups, but you’re still stuck in a flawed system.
I fully agree. When I feel like using a Twitter like platform (which is exceedingly rare), I use Mastodon
It’s worse than that.
Blockchain Capital LLC was co-founded by Steve Bannon pal Brock Pierce, a major crypto advocate, perennial presidential candidate, and close friend of Eric Adams. Pierce has dozens of other shady MAGA/Russia ties as well.
https://toad.social/@davetroy/113476797192400901
Dorsey’s already out, the people running the project are from the TESCREAL gang.
My issue with BS is it took VC money from crypto bros.
What do we think will happen when they come looking for their returns on investment?
I wonder if the next president could do something to stop that… seems like the head of DOGE might like it (or not, if that means contrarians disappear and stop “community noting” his posts, and allow for a more echoey chamber)
Both are terrible
Bluesky is a trap
Elaborate?
It’s Twitter
Bluesky is twitter?
I thought X is Twitter
Einhorn is finkle?
Nah bluesky is great. This “trap” conspiracy theory is ridiculous.
Will Musk buy Bluesky for more or less than he bought Twitter?
Well, comparing to Twitter… you can use their API, BlueSky is open-source and you can partially self-host. A lot better but you also could very likely be right about it being a trap.
Reddit was almost exactly the same, and that did very little to help anyone
With no safeguards the users won’t know it’s a trap until it’s sprung.
Let’s replace one proprietary service with another. It looks so good with its API wide open, like it’s never getting enshittified.
It’s obvious to me that we need to have laws to enforce portability of data and interoperability for large platforms.
I’m sure the Republican govt will get right on that
I mean, this is one of the central pitches behind Web3.0/Crypto. Everything has a digital tag and its all going to be portable between platforms.
Did it come to fruition? No, of course not. Its all a pile of scams. But then so was Web2.0 and Web1.0 during their heydays.
Web 1 and 2 were a pile of scams? Wthdym
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble
This goes all the way back to '98, when the original slew of start-ups gobbled up investments only to flop a few years later. Web2.0 had its own bubble burst starting in 2008, taking down a host of the early social media ecosystems (MySpace, Yahoo, and Geocities, most famously). Huge upfront investments with the promise of explosive ROI that took far longer to materialize (or simply never did).
A great deal of the valuation in these firms was built on lies and bullshit - misreported user activity, overly optimistic monetization estimates, and outright accounting fraud.
2020 gave us what looked like was going to be a third Crypto bust wave (FTX being the big industry leader leading the charge). But the pivot to AI appears to have bailed a lot of the bigger investors out. We’ll see how long that lasts.
Oh, I think I understand your point, but we do have different definitions of what a scam is.
For me, if the guys getting fucked are capitalists or huge investing firms that were trying to leverage their money to make more money just from speculation and not being actually involved, that’s not a scam, that justice. Economic bubbles happen because big money guys are trying to gamble the system to start with, so karma.
In the other hand, crypto scams are more close to a conman selling snake oil to the uneducated masses, that for me is a full fledged scam.
Yeah…the new Dumbass Of Government Efficiency (DOGE) will be right on that. Top priority…I’m sure…
Bluesky is not proprietary, it’s mit licensed and open source
Then please point me to an instance with less shitty privacy policy than this
Even if it did, Musk would just buy it.
it isn’t necessarily for sale at the moment
Put enough zeros on the end of a check and it will be.
Even if it were for sale, it’s designed to be decentralized so you couldn’t buy the whole network, just like you can’t buy all of Lemmy or Mastodon. That’s the theory anyways - I don’t think they’ve really executed on it yet.
Countdown until it turns out that everybody associated with any competition to Musk’s companies just so happens to be a criminal Trump siccs his DOJ after: 5… 4…
I wouldn’t discount the possibility that bsky is backed by the same dark money pool that bought twitter. putin found that it’s way too easy to buy elections worldwide just using social media. They’ll never give it up.
