Former President Donald Trump owes an additional $87,502 in post-judgment interest every day until he pays the $354 million fine ordered by Judge Arthur Engoron in his civil fraud case, according to ABC News’ calculations based on the judge’s lengthy ruling in the case.
Judge Engoron on Friday fined Trump $354 million plus approximately $100 million in pre-judgment interest in the civil fraud case brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James, after he found that Trump and his adult sons had inflated Trump’s net worth in order to get more favorable loan terms. The former president has denied all wrongdoing and has said he will appeal.
Engoron ordered Trump to pay pre-judgment interest on each ill-gotten gain – with interest accruing based on the date of each transaction – as well as a 9% post-judgment interest rate once the court enters the judgment in the case.
I can’t imagine 87k per day.
Can I get this in a better metric like number of trump jumps per mooch?
At least 5 Hamberders
87 cofefes per hectamooch.
Ahah you misspleeled it
I’d give up my avocado toast AND soy frappucinos for that kind of money.
That’s more than I make in 3 years. In one day. But anyone thinking he’s going to pay anything should go buy a bridge. This is America, people. The most corrupt place on earth.
Criminals run the country, and criminals protect each other.
This could really hurt his other legal cases. Lawyers will be less enthused to represent him if he might go bankrupt on them and not pay the bill.
And they will be more likely to demand retainer at onset. One recently demanded $3M retainer before starting.
His lawyers have already been quitting left and right. His lead counsel in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case withdrew in January, leaving Alina Habba, who has very little trial experience, to handle the damages portion of the case. Her inexperience got her in a lot of trouble with the judge. She kept violating basic trial etiquette and trying to argue facts of the case that had already been established (remember, Trump had already been found liable and they were just supposed to be arguing the amount of harm to establish damages).
Unfortunately, there are always more lawyers stupid enough to work for him and assume they’ll get paid. I think the quality on average just gradually goes down.
I’m not sure how the quality can possibly go any lower
I remember thinking this 5-10 Trump lawyers ago. It can always go lower.
Which is doing him unfavors. Appealing this is going to be really hard because Habba didn’t lodge any objections to any of the evidence, cutting down grounds for appeal.
They are getting paid via “exposure”
They are getting paid via “exposure”
You think Habba is getting a lot of work from her exposure?
For her next pivot to right wingnut commentator, yep
Have you heard her talk? She already is. She’s a true believer.
Lawyers will be less enthused to represent him if he might go bankrupt on them and not pay the bill.
He wasn’t going to pay them anyway.
I wonder if this will just be another OJ Simpson situation where he owes money but fucks around paying it and the courts never enforce the ruling.
That’s only 220 pairs of sneakers a day
Can we please get a 90 day cap at which point straight to jail?
This is a civil trial. He won’t go to jail, they’ll just start seizing his assets.
I’ll take that too. Looking forward to seizures. Concerned it’ll just never happen :/
Alex Jones still hasn’t paid shit.
They gonna seize his shit too. Either pay up or lose it all
I’m pretty sure that’s still advancing. Last I heard the families who won against him were moving towards seizing his assets.
He’s played this weird shell game with his assets and claimed poverty through complex bankruptcy litigations. It’s far from what’s going on with Trump.
And while Jones may have delayed his fate, he’s still not gonna get away with that shit. Those cases are progressing, we just aren’t hearing a lot about it in the news. 
Yea he did one of the things you never do (unless you’re Trump), fuck with judges. He started hiding his shit after the judge told him to pay up. They’re out for blood.
oh, he was shuffling his assets around long before the judges told him to stop because he knew what was coming.
I wish they’d start with his headets.
What?
Head-ets, like ass-ets. Took me a sec
There’s no assets in his head to speak of.
Sure there is. It would make a good conversation piece stuffed and mounted on the wall of Letitia James’s den.
Or mounted on a pike at the gate of either the White House or the Capitol.
Seize building
Search building
Find more classified documents
I bet you could even strategically seize ones you suspected might have compromising things?
Seizing assets in a civil case is not the same as searching with a warrant and it must not be conflated. Evidence must only be obtained in a lawful manner with the appropriate warrants. Now if something pops up by chance while seizing his assets that’s nice. But the instrument shouldn’t be misused for that.
If the property changes ownership (aka seized by NY,) the new owners could authorize a search and it would be completely lawful.
As far as selection of which properties, targeting specific properties may be a bit sus, but i doubt there’s anything opposing it. They have to decide somehow.
Everyone ITT: “unreasonable and excessive punishment is great as long as it happens to someone I hate”
Everyone ITT: “unreasonable and excessive punishment is great as long as it happens to someone I hate”
For anyone confused, LegalEagle did a very good breakdown of the case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJbgKP-2cFg&t=1331s
Note the timestamp linked where he mentions the harsh penalty from the Judge, and explains that it is due to Trump’s multiple previous fraud convictions (Trump Charity, Trump University, etc). He keeps. Committing. Fraud.
“It worked out okay this time even if it didn’t the 5 previous times” is not a good defense. Clearly he will not stop committing fraud unless faced with harsher penalties, and the vast majority of the time it is not victimless.Yeah, okay, I have imaginary lawyer friends too who disagree about the punishment fitting the crime.
What’s unreasonable and excessive about any of this?
Because he did nothing wrong. The fact that the left side is celebrating this judgement (and the rape one) tells me they dont care about that justice system, they just want to use it.
If only there were some way to determine whether someone did something they were accused of. Maybe like an independent person to weigh up all the arguments and make a decision. You could have supporters and detractors make their cases.
Yeah, thats the part that is dangerous, I am telling you as a real estate person, he did nothing wrong, and there is not victim in the real estate case, but the person that decided he was guilty believes something wrong or is doing it for bad reasons. Do you understand the danger there?
I’m kind of astonished.
I’m telling you as an accounting person, fraudulent misrepresentation of one financial circumstances is an egregious crime.
This whole “victimless crime” thing is incredibly naive.
Cool, who was the victim? How were they victimized?
As you well know, there is no victim, as in no single person who was harmed. Yet Trump’s actions are a crime nonetheless. The whole victimless crime angle is a derivative of a straw man fallacy.
As a society we prescribe a minimum acceptable level of behaviour through laws. When people contravene these laws we impose penalties. There is no requirement for someone to be harmed.
That said, I’m sure you can imagine what would happen if fraud was not a crime. It’s just not possible to conduct business of any kind if there is no penalty for fraud.
Because it was literally a victimless crime.
- He overstated is net worth in a loan application to obtain a lower interest rate
- The bank approved, gave him the money, and he paid it all back, with interest
- The bank, upon finding out, declined to sue him and even said they’d be happy to work with him again in the future
- The NYC AG decided to sue anyways because it’s technically not allowed to misrepresent your income on a bank form
- The judge decides on an excessive amount of fines simply because they hate him and want to ruin his campaign
I don’t care how much you hate Trump, this is just plain dirty, like kicking your opponent in the nuts in a fist fight.
Because it was literally a victimless crime.
“Yes your honor, my client tried to hire a Hitman to kill his wife. But since the Hitman was an undercover cop, and the wife says she still loves him, there was no victim here and therefore my client is completely innocent.”
I think you’re getting a little carried away with your analogy here.
It’s more like, say, you decide to pirate some movies or software because you can’t afford them right now. But over time you become proficient in using the software, and you manage to land a well paying job with your skills. Now you can afford to pay for it, so you decide to clean up your act and pay for a license, and you also buy all the movies you watched for free. None of the movie studios or software companies had to shut down or went out of business because of lost revenue.
Suddenly, there’s a knock on your door. It’s the FBI. “Sir, we’ve been going over BitTorrent logs from five years ago and found a number of movies and software that was downloaded from an IP address we traced to you. Piracy is a federal crime as you know, and we decided we’re going to press charges.” And then they fine you not only the total amount that those items would have cost if you had bought them back then, but also all of the salary you’ve earned up to this date, plus interest.
Oh, and none of that money goes to the movie studies or software companies you stole from, it all goes to the government. Still cool?
It’s more like, say, you decide to pirate some movies or software because you can’t afford them right now.
I love how in your made up analogy you introduce unnecessary details to make the fictional scenario sound more innocent. “If the fictional analogy is innocent then the thing that actually happened is innocent too” right? Are you actually trying to suggest that self proclaimed billionaire Donald Trump couldn’t afford loans?
It’s more like, say, you decided physically rob local businesses. Over time you become proficient and thievery and fencing and manage to land a well paying job doing technically legal work. You decide to white wash your past by sending money to all the businesses your previously robbed. Do you think it would be inappropriate for you to be charged for the crimes you very much did commit just because you “paid it back”?
Also, during the trial, you kept insisting that you didn’t do anything illegal. Yes, you took things that belonged to other people, but it’s perfectly legal because {Insert made up reason here].
Okay, so maybe you CAN afford it but you’d rather use the money for something else. The rest of the analogy stays.
He invested the money legally into real estate, he didn’t buy drugs and sold them or anything like that.
Your analogy still doesn’t make sense, you’re doing the same thing you accuse me of: making it worse than it is in order or imply guilt. And no, he didn’t physically rob anybody, the profits the bank missed out on are purely theoretical, just like the profits a software company misses out on when you don’t buy an app you wouldn’t have bought anyways if you couldn’t have pirated it.
“there was no victim” is not a legal defense. You’re trying to compare it to piracy because you’re trying to change the argument from “no one was hurt” to “this shouldn’t be illegal.”
People will argue that piracy shouldn’t be illegal, nobody is arguing that fraud shouldn’t be illegal. As the judge said: just because it worked out for the bank this time, doesn’t mean it will work out okay next time. He did a crime, everyone agrees that it should be a crime, and he needs to face consequences so he and other people don’t do it again in the future. It’s not only a crime if it doesn’t work out for you.
As for no one being harmed: he also undervalued his property to avoid taxes, so the American public was harmed. Hence the DA pressing charges on their behalf.
I dunno. Lying to the government/banks about your finances to the tune of billions of dollars is a huge waste of time and resources, which are paid for by the average taxpayer/bank customer who actually pays taxes and doesn’t inflate their holdings. Victimless in the sense that no one was physically harmed, but not harmless.
“The subject loans made the banks lots of money, but the fraudulent [financial statements] cost the banks lots of money. The less collateral for a loan, the riskier it is, and a first principal of loan accounting is that as risk rises, so do interest rates. Thus, accurate [financial statements] would have allowed the lenders to make even more money than they did,” Engoron wrote in his summary judgment ruling.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/01/politics/trump-fraud-168-million/index.html
You’re literally cheering for big banks to make extra profit just because you want to stick it to someone you hate. And I’m sure you’ve also never inflated your skillset or exaggerated your past experience on a resume in order to get a job that would make you more money… right?
If you can pay the fine, don’t do the crime.
If you rob a bank, then later return the cash… you still robbed a bank, and it’s still a crime regardless.
The bank chose to overlook that crime because it made them money, and they want more business. You don’t see anything wrong with overlooking a crime for money?
LMAO, I just love how everyone on this site is like “fuck corporations”, “yay communism”, “eat the rich” and “piracy isn’t stealing”, but the moment someone you hate gets caught doing it, everyone’s like “off with his head! How dare he cheat big business like that!”
Hypocritical much?
Not once have I said any of those things. You just see what you want to see and think it’s ok to break the rules as long as no one got hurt… but profiting from fraud is a crime. That’s the facts and that’s why he’s paying.
- The NYC AG decided to sue anyways because it’s technically not allowed to misrepresent your income on a bank form
By “technically” you mean legally. In accordance with the law.
The judge decides on an excessive amount of fines simply because they hate him and want to ruin his campaign
Prove it. And then send that proof to Trump, in sure whatever ambulance chaser is representing him now would interested to have that proof .
It’s also legally not allowed to cross an intersection on a red light in order to get to work faster when you’re running late, but who’s keeping track?
And if fined by a cop nobody would disagree with it.
Yeah, right.
And Trump was caught and fined for his “running of the red light”. Stop making mental gymnastics to cover for this rapist.
So no proof the judge acted out of malice? Just more bullshit you made up? I’ll try to contain my surprise.
I don’t know if the judge did, but the AG likely acted out of malice. Just ask yourself who benefits from this ruling? As far as I can tell, the bank doesn’t even get any of the money, it all goes to the state. And the Democrat party, of which Letitia James is a member, gets to hurt a political rival in the upcoming federal elections at a critical time in their campaign.
Yes, I know that’s not proof, but there’s certainly motive.
So now you’re saying politicians should only be prosecuted by members of their own party. Go to a doctor, tell them your brain fell out, ask for help.
The police, so by extension tge government
So your legal defence on behalf of Trump is, “your honour, who did my law-breaking hurt?”
You’re myopically fixated on a single case, too. Do the other 90 open cases against him somehow bolster your confidence in his innocence here? He’s being “attacked” because he’s a fucking crook. They will win some and lose others, but where he legally fucked up, he’ll face consequences. Period.
“Who’d he hurt?” Ri-goddamned-diculous.
No, that’s literally his own defense, I just happen to agree with it.
Imagine you lie on your resume and inflate your experience in order to get a certain job. They hire you and pay you 20% over what you would have qualified for based on your actual experience, but you do a good job and your manager just happy with your performance, and when you leave, they give you a good recommendation for you next job. Five or ten years later, you’re just about to make a downpayment for your first house, and suddenly, not your employer, but the government shows up and sues you because lying on your resume is illegal, and they demand you pay all the extra money you earned PLUS interest and fines.
That’s sorta how petty this case is. And if you cheer for this kinda stuff, you deserve for it to happen to you.
but you do a good job and your manager just happy with your performance
Here is where the comparison falls apart
How so? The banks declined to sue and said they’d be happy to work with him again.
Who gives a toss what the banks say? They aren’t the real victim, rules based society is.
The fraudulent valuations went both ways. He artificially inflated the values for lines of credit and loans, and artificially deflated the values for the purpose of tax evasion. Letitia James pulled an Elliot Ness on him with this case.
As far as I can tell, this case was only about him inflating the value of his properties in order to obtain more favorable terms on his loan.
If he did also undervalue them for the purpose of paying less taxes, that would be a separate case. And in that case, I wouldn’t argue that it was a victimless crime.
The case was about all the fraud involved in the financial statements alongside disingenuous valuations and deed restrictions on his properties.
Who says lying on your resume is illegal? If it was illegal then you broke the law and face the consequences of your actions, the most “conservative” thing you can do: own up to your life choices.
All that said, I personally am “stuck” in the position I’m in because I don’t lie on my resume. I don’t want to suffer the consequences of my lie.
I didn’t say it was. To be honest, I don’t know if it is, I was just trying to draw a comparison that would be easier to relate to for the average person.
But in doing so you illustrate how you miss the point.
We don’t drag Trump through the courts because we hate him. We hate him for his crimes, and the courts are where we prove them.
You must see how your scenario differs… It isn’t illegal to lie on a resume, and in this case Trump’s not being asked to give back anywhere near the amount his lies earned him.
Perhaps, but it’s morally objectionable in the same way and for the same reasons as what Trump did. You’re basically just saying “my crime isn’t a crime because it’s technically not illegal”.
Oh and you’re flat out wrong about the last part, because Trump was fined not only the amount of interest the banks lost out on, but additionally also all of the profit he made from transactions that the money helped facilitate. Plus 9% interest.
https://fortune.com/2024/02/19/donald-trumps-355-million-civil-fraud-verdict-what-next/
I mean the definition of crime is literally “an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government”. So it being “technically illegal” is the basis for it being a crime or not.
Will his GoFundMe keep up with the interest rates? How many Mooches will the rubes last?
I believe it’s currently in excess of the interest. I don’t expect it to stay that way.
Less than one. They’re already broke paying his lawyers and, like, voting for corporations and shit.
A Mooch becoming a unit of time and Sean Spicer hiding in the bushes were the best part of his presidency
Yeah… right… When’s the last time that actually happened? Not even a Trump jab… Fuck politics.
I’ll be back in a few months when something happens
NARRATOR: He never paid it.
Why should he, when he constantly tries (and somewhat succeed) to find other people that are paying for him?
Thats hilarious. Wake me up when he actually pays the $300 bajillion dollars.
To be fair, Letitia James is now saying she is going to try to seize his assets if he doesn’t pay up.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/21/letitia-james-trump-assets-seizure-buildings
Seizing his gold toilet would be appropriate, since his finances would be in the crapper at that point.
amazing
Imagine having been president and contemplating bankruptcy to nullify the case/repayment
(I’m just thinking aloud, hypothetical situation… but lol)
I’m not sure that will absolve him of his lawsuit debts.
Would love to see him go bankrupt, though, that golden facade crumbling.
How would it crumble? He’s declared bankruptcy so many times, people can’t decide if it’s 4 or 6.
In spite of that, dumb asses think he’s a financial genius.
Because despite declaring bankruptcy, he’d still owe the $350MM + interest.
While some judgments can be cleared with bankruptcy… Judgements based on fraud are not one of those.
Bankrupt morally AND financially.
Oh my god… Does that mean… that…
… Something might actually HAPPEN?
Take that hope behind the fucking house and beat it to death, and then shove it way deep down inside where it can never fucking escape again
…where it belongs!
It would be nice. Who knows? It sure is worth trying and she seems to have been doing pretty well so far.
I hope she is able to do so. It’s pretty clear that TFG will not willingly pay any amount of money.
TFG? the fucking grapefruit? I have no idea what that acronym means.
…the former guy…
I read it in a thread a while back, That Fucking Guy.
Probably Trump Financial Group.
Possibly Tiny Flaccid Gimp
The Fucking Grifter
I like this acronym.
So
Many
Possibilities.
Also: The Foreign Goon; and, the Freaking Gonzo
A judgement is a judgement.
We also live in a world where having enough money allows one to rewrite the rules as they go.
Yeah it’s becoming pretty clear this nerd doesn’t have any money
Yeah, he has been coasting by on class solidarity and an army of rabid idiots for a while now.
Nerd? I can’t tell if you’re 12 or 70. We took back that term and Dump is anything but a nerd.
He won’t. His estate will be seized and liquidated and it won’t even begin to cover the fine, because the value of everything he owns is criminally overinflated.
because the value of everything he owns is criminally overinflated
You say that now, but just wait until the cult starts collecting money to pay those overinflated prices for their lord and savior…
He’s about to get a huge paper wealth injection with his truth social thing about to go public. Usually you’ve got to prove certain arduous financial metrics to do that, but the SEC is all, “lulz, you’re fine. Go ahead and offer your worthless stock!”
I’ll be curious to see who the biggest “investors” are in that stock. This is set up to be one helluva laundry.
And Truth Social can be openly sold to foreign "investors."Is not like campaign money where they have to launder the money first.
It’s the same reason he has NFTs and sneakers. It’s all to get that Saudi and Russian money.
I wonder if Musk will be a big investor. He buys Twotter and ruins it, while Trump opens a competitor platform. Musk buys stock in that so when it IPOs he rakes in the money, all while Twitter users move over to TS to help it sell at the stock price they want.
It’s all make belief, but maybe…
truth social thing
My brain: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda
I guess they will have to take his golden slippers.
The goal is to sell it off for profit…
Not take on extra debt…
I once typed in the wrong number in my electric bill and got my lights shut off. It was like 10 dollars. Somehow when you’re rich enough you can just choose to pay things or not.
Wow. That’s shit. And if it happened in US, then it is unlikely to be illegal like in the rest of the world.
To him…. That’s a lot of others peoples money.
Other people who will pay for this instead of donating to the RNC. Still a win.
I love that for him.
Don’t worry guys. His supporters will give him money. I hope anyone with trumpy parents is cool with not getting any inheritance.
So you are saying they are now taxing stupid?
His fundraising has kind of fallen off, I understand the donations aren’t keeping up with all this money going out. It’s hysterical honestly, dude is prob going to die a pauper and ruin his entire legacy which honestly he deserves after what he did to this country.
Woe to the person who is going to have to scrub the shit and piss off that gravesite.
Jokes on you, i already wasn’t getting an inheritance
When the fuck was the last time you got an interest rate of less than 1%? Look at that shit, that’s barely a million over the year, like 0.03%.
Going down in $87k flames is nice, but i’d be happier if it were bigger, that’s what I’m saying. Commensurate to the dumpster fire that is America.
$87K x 365 is almost $32M.
=/= Enough
dumpster fire?
hmm and more.
Let’s see America doesn’t have much IN Country FIGHTING unlike other countries ie: Europe, Russia, Iran, Iraq,etc
figure it out before blasting it out and making yourself Ugly
simple mind indeed! but i did think better of that line and removed it, and now your comment doesn’t make any sense in addition to being flag-waving jackoffery.
good choice! enough said! but flag waving? so anyone stands up for America is Flag Waving? I guess you are Anti-USA good job! that is all!
Frankly? Yeah. The USA mostly fucking sucks these days. The American dream has become to move to Europe. We still have a chance to turn it around but that chance is being squandered.
you sound like a LOSER bye kid! get a F* clue kid. Look at other countries, how messed up they are! Iran/China/Korea/Japan go figure, go back to grade school punk
It’s a 9% interest rate according to the article.
EDIT, and your math is way off:
$87,000 x 365 = $31,755,000
$355,000,000 / $31,755,000 = 11.18%
