- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
Right now, on Stack Overflow, Luigi Magione’s account has been renamed. Despite having fruitfully contributed to the network he is stripped of his name and his account is now known as “user4616250”.
This appears to violate the creative commons license under which Stack Overflow content is posted.
When the author asked about this:
As of yet, Stack Exchange has not replied to the above post, but they did promptly and within hours gave me a year-long ban for merely raising the question. Of course, they did draft a letter which credited the action to other events that occurred weeks before where I merely upvoted contributions from Luigi and bountied a few of his questions.
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“No wars but class wars” as true today as when Trotsky said it many decades ago. Not sure how anyone cannot see this very, very clear fact. But every other commoner that sees it needs to take according measures.
Stack Overflow has been toxic for a long time already. It’s one of the things that a lot of people seem pleased to see AI devour.
I’ve read it is still well valued because people will keep asking questions there when LLM can’t answer, so they remain a precious source of post LLM curated Q&A.
…for now.
Until it’s just AIs answering questions asked by other AIs while human admins block human accounts…
Solaria, here we come.
Just started reading Foundation, it’s very well written.
Isaac Asimov should be required reading for everyone.
Right? We have to read Shakespeare and Dickens, boring. So far, Foundation has had actually unexpected things happening and it engaging.
Valuable information source becomes bot recycling machine…? Hey, I Reddit before!
Yeah, AI has become good enough at this point that you can provide it with a large blob of context material - such as API documentation, source code, etc. - and then have it come up with its own questions and answers about it to create a corpus of “synthetic data” to train on. And you can fine-tune the synthetic data to fit the format and style that you want, such as telling it not to be snarky or passive-aggressive or whatever.
It can reproduce an api. Can’t solve actual problems. LLMs are completely incapable of innovation.
That’s not really true though… They come up with brand new sentences all the time.
No, they can only take from things in their models.
Moreover, all of them use statistics, typically Bayesian, to get the results. What you get from an LLM is essentially an average* of the model data. This is why feeding LLM output into a model is so toxic, it’s already the average.
- Yes I know it’s not really the average, but for laymen us good enough comparison.
They only take from the statistical distributions of words in the context of preceding words (which is why they never say “the the” etc, why the grammar is nearly always correct). But that doesn’t mean that whole sentences are lifted from the source material. There are near infinite paths through those word distributions, and many have never been produced by humans, so LLMs do produce sentences that have never been uttered before.
They couldn’t produce new conceptual context spaces in the way that humans can sometimes, but they can produce new combinations within existing context spaces.
And yet the synthetic training data works, and models trained on it continue scoring higher on the benchmarks than ones trained on raw Internet data. Claim what you want about it, the results speak louder.
The results aren’t worth the expense. So-called “AI” is the biggest bubble since the great recession.
Nah, I’m still giving that one to the blockchain. LLMs are going to be useful for a while, but Ethereum still hasn’t figured out a real use, and they’re the only ones that haven’t given up and moved fully into coin gambling.
This is the peak, though. They require new data to get better but most of the available new data is adulterated with AI slop. Once they start eating themselves it’s over.
You are speaking of “model collapse”, I take it? That doesn’t happen in the real world with properly generated and curated synthetic data. Model collapse has only been demonstrated in highly artificial circumstances where many generations of model were “bred” exclusively on the outputs of previous generations, without the sort of curation and blend of additional new data that real-world models are trained with.
There is no sign that we are at “the peak” of AI development yet.
It can but you to closely midwife it into doing so.
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To be honest, I had a bad experience a few years ago when I wanted to try contributing, and I never tried again. Yet, I think it’s really hard to strike a balance of freedom and constrains for organically curated Q&A, so I try not to be too fast on judging them considering the service that they indubitably provided to millions of people.
I haven’t really had an issue with SA toxicity.
Headquarters seems to be:
70 White Lion Street, London, England, N1 9PP
To send all your angry letters too.
I used to live in that neighborhood. That must just be one of those places that gives people an address that looks fancy methinks
It’s a place called “Spaces” seems like companies rent a small room or so as a physical presence.
Definitely not any kind of HQ. I’d be surprised if more than one or two people go there for Stack Exchange. Mostly remote employees?
Make sure to include bullet points
Marked as triplicate
Bullet points work best when using a 9mm font size.
PowerPoint is seldom used in the Mafia because of all the bullet points.
(Approximately 25.5 pt. Now, the closest traditionally named font size is 24pt, called “double pica”, and Pica Pica is the latin name for the magpie, who is known for stealing and hoarding shiny things. What does this mean??)
Settle down, Charlie Day.
Gottem
They’re scared of Luigi still, got it
That’s not what the article is about. Stack Overflow has kept content that Luigi created up, but removed his username, in violation of Creative Commons. Edited the post to make that more clear.
If they weren’t afraid of what he represents they wouldn’t have removed his name.
Yeah exactly. And they’re not allowed to under the Creative Commons licence
…and yet…
Which is exactly the reason we are in a post discussing it.
Yup, it would be interesting to see this tried in court.
May I suggest a European one?
This is the equivalent of a bank robber standing in a vault, filling his bag full of jewels. One of the hostages yelling “You can’t do this, it’s illegal.” Some other guy yells “…and yet…” minutes before police sirens can be heard outside.
I look forward to Mangiine catching wind of this, which is basically theft, and adding it to the laundry list of things to be tried in court.
Indeed, I wonder if we’ll start seeing reforms before or after a copycat strikes.
I doubt before. They’re still hoping they can erase or villainize him. I expect the news media will ignore his trial in favor of whatever antics Trump or Musk are up to, and we won’t hear much about him until there’s a guilty verdict they can parade before the masses in order to dissuade them from copying him. If he does get mentioned, they’ll be trying to frame him in as negative a light as possible and downplay his motives. I also expect the big social media will censor discussion under the guise of not promoting violence, or simply shadow ban any mention of him.
No, they’re terrified of us now, they know we tasted blood and are hungry for more.
I know I am. I’m so sick of this system they’ve created and perpetuated for decades/centuries. I just want to live my fucking life without worrying about basic needs, or how someone with most can take even more from those who have little. Americans have more guns per capita than almost anywhere else. Those are guns in the hands of the people, not mercs or armies or private security. They should be afraid of us. They should be checking their car’s undercarriage daily before getting in. They should vary their routes daily to avoid patterns. They should see every person on the street as a potential assassin. Only THEN, will anything about these parasites’ attitudes change.
Unfortunately, so many with the skills to engage in revolution are aligned with the interests of these corporate leeches, and thus are fighting the masses, instead of standing with them. They wanted a Civil War #2, it’s time to kick up, not down!
Most gun owners are biggest bootlickers out there… They didn’t get weapons to fight corporate tyranny, they got them to shoot poor people they don’t like
Actually, they got them to shoot gun-wielding home invaders who threaten (if not attempt to murder) their family members.
Fucking terrified. I’ve never seen corpos circle their wagons like this before. It’s hilarious.
Reducing someone to a number has never backfired in a revolutionary way. Just ask prisoner 24601
I thought the exact same thing and we should all endeavor to use 4616250 as a meme.
user4616250 will now be a famous meme. “How do we fix healthcare? We call user4616250.”
I was thinking tattoo…
Anytime a CEO does something questionable; “/ping user4616250”
Do not forget me user4616250
Look down, look down You’ll always be a slave Look down, look down You’re standing in your grave
"He knew that man was me Without a second glance! That Micky Ds employee spotted me The crime stoppers bounty is his chance!
Why should I try to hide? Why should I go unkown When I have come so far And struggled for so long?
If I speak, I am condemned. If I stay silent, they have won!
I am the ceo slayer that got away. They all are looking at me. How can I abandon them? How would they live If I am not free?
If I speak, I am condemned. If I stay silent, I am damned!
Who am I? Should not this wage slave benefit Pretend I do not feel his agony This innocent who can be set free
Who else should face their judgment Who am I? Can I conceal myself for evermore? Pretend I am the man I was before? And hide my crime until I die
Be no more than an alibi? Must I lie?
How can I ever face my fellow men? How can I ever face myself again? My fate belongs to capitlism, I know I made that bargain long ago I gave them hope when hope was gone I gave them strength to journey on
[He appears in front of the court]
Who am I? Who am I? I’m Luigi!
[He unbuttons his shirt to reveal the scares of a botched surgery]
And so UHC, you see it’s true This man bears no more guilt than you! Who am I?
user4616250!
Please let it be, haha
It’s like squid game where they identify you by a number. Long live user4616250
Moat famous number since 24601
A musician needs to write a catchy tune to put the name to so people will remember the numbers.
♪ 0118 999 88199 9119 725 …3
Oh this takes me back! Thanks for the laugh you triggered :)
“calling user 461-62-50, he’s our dude, what he does is nifty!” :)
deleted by creator
I believe in you. If it isn’t the new 867-5309, hopefully it will at least be the next 6060-842.
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Luigi, Luigi, who can I turn to?
You give me something I can hold onto!
Things can’t stay the way that they were before
It’s time to put some villains up on the wall!Luigi I got your number!
I think it’s hero time!
Luigi don’t change your number!Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!Luigi Luigi you’re the guy for me
Oh, you don’t know me but you make me so happy. I tried to free you but I lost my nerve. I said “nullification” but I got censoredLuigi I got your number. I think it’s hero time. Luigi don’t change your number
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!I got it (I got it) I got it
Put those assholes on the wall!
I got it (I got it) I got it
For the good of, for the good of us all!Luigi, Luigi who can we turn to
(Four six one six two five oh)
To know our pain, we can always turn to you. (Four six one six two five oh)Luigi, when the CEO fell.
0118 999 881 999 119 725… 3
Get Vikas Music, he’s based enough to put it to eurobeat.
I suggest these guys
Nice and catchy, but it needs to be catchy with more digits. Tommy “Tutone” Heath is still alive. I’m just saying.
I had 40k points on SO though I no longer contribute. Stackexchange is basically dead because it’s a for-profit with very poor direction and LLMs basically made the entire thing obsolete relative to the monetary growths it needs to be sustainable. Understandably they can’t attract any attention like this as they’re 🤏 from going under.
I feel a bit sad for stackexchange but they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think stackexchange has their days numbered tho so this is realy not all that relevant. Give them a year or two tops
It’s sad because Stack Exchange came out because Experts Exchange sucked. And now they also suck.
In the day of AI, will we ever have a new alternative?
How will AI learn without human posted questions and answers. Docs for most software are abysmal. In a few years, people dependent on AI to code will be in real trouble with anything new.
Yeah I doubt it tbh. I loved my time with stackoverflow and it landed me jobs and friends but I’m quite bullish when it comes IT and AI. It’s not replacing devs yet but definitely replacing q&a, debugging tools, code reviews etc already/soon.
I hope we’ll have some open social coding experience like SO but trends seem to point towards more private stuff like coaching, bookcamps, shitty discord servers etc. as that’s the only thing that can be funded sustainably.
In the day of AI, will we ever have a new alternative?
perhaps we’ll see a resurgence of value added platforms that ensure it’s all human generated information. not an easy problem but… if there’s demand
Lol @ the “Ross Ulbrecht requested that we keep his username” bullshit.
Oh ok, guys, nevermind. It’s not a big deal because the criminal requested that we keep their username…
I hope Luigi sues them, I would donate to that fund.
I cross posted this to Hacker News (which is very pro-CEO and big corpo) and it’s now rank 1 on the front page, lmao. People really support this guy
(And it’s funny because in the comments, people are seething “Nooooo he’s not popular, look at these polls that show he has 13% approval!!”)
(Not sharing link to avoid brigade)
What kind of world have we come into where Hacker News is a pro corporation website?
Hackers used to be the antithesis of big corporations and capitalist overreach.
Even if the 13% number were accurate - that’s a pretty damning number. 13% of people supporting someone for gunning down a CEO in cold blood is terrifying to CEOs.
That’s not 13% hating them. That’s 13% of people celebrating someone for killing them. No lawsuits. No trials. Just gunning them down in the streets. Things have gotten really bad when you have that much of the population actively supporting your murder.
This is the only solution to modern world problems. Imagine how many problems we would solve right away if we started gunning down powerful people, CEOs, politicians.
If billionaires were protected as we protect children in schools, we’d literally run out billionaires in a month.
You promise?
Wait, seriously? WTF is it named hacker news? Hackers are the least corporate people out there…
laughs in Google “do no evil”
Because those are the equivalent of Hippies that turned Yuppies.
Most American hackers need a security clearance to work, you won’t find them supporting Saint Luigi online
The submission has been clearly penalized by hn moderators: Posted 3h ago, upvoted >600 times with almost 500 comments, ranking 23rd on the front page. Ranking first currently is a submission with 80 upvotes, posted 1h ago.
What does hn refer to?
Hacker News. it’s a link aggregator website and forum at news.ycombinator.com
Thx
Np
Wow, they also changed the title lmao. I posted it with the same title as the article
“Look at our corporate polls! Stop liking him!”
Lmao it has 3x as many votes as anything else on HN but the moderated pushed it all the way down to page 3 (position 60-something when I just checked).
Hackers
Pro CEO and Pro Corporate
What fuckery is this?
Live too long and become a villain
Stack being weird and toxic I’m shocked, shocked I tell you
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
“Trickle down economics only occurs when the wealthy bleed.”
Similar, and appropriate. The working class will only benefit once the wealthy are no longer wealthy.
i have no love for brian thompson or ceos but the canonisation of a well off wealthy rich kid from a family of republicans is a bit disturbing.
He’s a good example of one can be a class traitor in a good way!
Why not idolize the folks crossing over to the right side of history?
this who you’re defending when you attack Luigi’s character.
just making sure you’re getting the whole picture in view for everyone to see.
https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/slain-healthcare-ceos-life-airbrushed
you got me; because i don’t like swooning over rich privileged people i’m defending ceos… /rolleyes
I’m going to guess that you don’t understand exactly what you’re doing. So let me put it into a different context.
During the last major civil rights movement, the black community coined term “black lives matter”. To combat and drown out that message, conservatives created their own message, “all lives matter”. It was effective in the sense that it drummed up rage against conservative so much that the message of “Black Lives Matter” lost its volume and couldn’t be heard.
What you’re effectively doing, is pulling an “all lives matter”. you’re (unwilling or not) muddying the message that the elite and rich are abusing the system to take advantage of the people.
The mechanics of this message you’re supporting attempt to draw more attention to Luigi’s socioeconomic background over the actions he took. The actions he took being, the assassination of a CEO who has killed thousands, if not more, of American citizens based on the executive actions he took to increase profits over human life. Not only that, but he also supported unfair and inhumane treatment towards patients.
Fortunately, the message you’re unwittingly spreading is weaker than the real message behind the actions that Luigi took.
BTW, because I’ll probably get banned for posting his message here, I’ll share the article that has it. just in case you’re confused about why he did what he did.
comparing luigi to the civil rights movement and black civil rights leaders is wild… and grossly offensive.
The fact that OP took time to explain everything to you, and you choose to focus on such nonsense instead of seeing the whole picture presented to you shows you have no intention of learning or growing.
people being offended by comparisons is something that puzzles me every time i see it.
One common trait between two things is enough to make an analogy. The differences between the objects being compared doesnt hinder the argument as it is based on the similarities alone.
the problem is more comparing a privileged rich white kid to black civil rights leaders
Pointing that A is like B regarding the aspect X is often treated as a “comparison” between A and B, but it doesnt imply that A is as great, as important, or as bad as B. It doesnt imply that A is like B in any way other than in the aspect X.
Why not focus on the point that is being made instead of freaking out over the angles from which the analogy breaks down. Every analogy breaks down from some angle.
Very well said, I hope you don’t catch a ban for this comment.
He’s closer to you in class and status than Brian Thompson ever was. How fine a comb do you want to use to divide us? Where’s the line?
what does this have to do with dividing us? i mean they’re both not close to me. they’re both wealthy people from well off families. i think instead of donating a bunch of money to him, people should start donating to people facing vast sums of medical debt.
People do - through tax but the rich divert the funds through policy using laws that they’ve shaped to benefit themselves rather than the nation.
Honestly, if anyone has a chance of murdering the rich and setting a precedent of self defence over social murder, it’s another rich who can afford an excellent lawyer to see out the lengthy court case.
Instead of people paying for ridiculous amount of medical debt due to inflated amount of medical bill due insurance companies. Govt can pay for their own people medical coverage who are paying tax for them to run the govt.
sure but that’s not likely to happen with republicans in government.
If i have to say both are similar. They work for the ultra rich. They both don’t care about common people, you and I both. That’s why Luigi mangione did what he had to do. Making the rich know their place. Whether he is rich or not doesn’t matter. We needed to send the message across.
Assigning to a number like they do prisoners.
Disgusting behaviour from Stack Overflow and the perpetrators.
we are all numbers. lemmy.ca has a user number for you, your government has a number for you, your local library has a number for you.
that is just how a digital world works.
I’m not a number, I’m a emojii!
What if I told you that television shows were dangerous? It’s true. In the year 2000, four out of every five injuries occurred in a home that owned a VHS copy of Robocop III. Someone might say, “That’s compelling Robocorrelation, but that data alone does not suggest Robocausation.” Fine. But maybe your first instinct was to say, “Robocop III is a movie, not a TV show, you fucking dumbass.” If so, then congratulations, idiot, you’re a Technical Genius. You’re smart enough to spot a technicality, but too dumb to know everyone else did too and it was light years away from the point. You’re the kind of person who tells your doctor, “Um, it’s Chief Chirpa?” when he tells you that getting the Wicket doll out of your asshole will require surgery. “And, um,” you’ll add, “it’s an action figure? Maybe you should have gone to a non-stupid medical school.”
The nice thing about being a Technical Genius is that it feels like proof you’re smarter than everyone. They can say you don’t “get it” all day, but they’re the imbeciles who think Robocop III is a TV show. Look at it like this: You are the only one in the history of Koala Times Bus Tours to contract syphilis from a koala bite. You might be embarrassed, but at least you aren’t like those other fools screaming “Don’t touch the koala bears!” when they are in fact marsupials. I mean, if koalas were actual bears, your whole face would be missing, not still here and covered in pulsing chancres.
Technical Geniuses reach maximum annoying when they decide that pointing out technicalities is a sense of humor. For instance, if you announced, “My wife is pregnant and we’re having a boy,” a Technical Genius might quip, “Well, technically only women can have babies. Unless you count the Chief Chirpa action figure currently breaching my anus – um, which you should, since it is the dictionary definition. Heard of it? Hey, everyone! This idiot with no dictionary is watching me shit out a Chief Chirpa, and he doesn’t even know which gender gives birth!”
He’s user number 24601 as far as I’m concerned
694201337
Gione Valgione
probably was the internal id number, but still scummy behaviour.
As of yet, Stack Exchange has not replied to the above post, but they did promptly and within hours gave me a year-long ban for merely raising the question.
Laws mean nothing anymore. Therefore licenses mean nothing. Therefore ownership means nothing, and “theft” no longer exists.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Jfc y’all sound like magats
There is no law forcing a company to spread your message for you.
In my experience it’s usually the magats who are the ones defending asshole and/or immoral behavior by pointing out that the offender is acting within the bounds of the law or within their legal rights.
Idk, I feel like Luigi Mangione being a phrase not allowed on Stack Overflow just makes sense. Good policy.
They agreed to terms when they operated under Creative Commons.
There is when Stack is using a creative commons license.
No their isn’t.
Stack Overflow is privately owned by Prosus. You have certain limited rights to the content they host but they do not have the obligation to keep the content up and they even have user terms that every account agrees to: especially for moderation.
If they’d just removed his content outright, I would agree with you. But if they’ve left his content up without attribution, that does violate the CC agreement, of which they are upheld by.
I mean, it’s still a small copyright violation who the proprietor of is a bit preoccupied to do anything about, so uh…this whole thing is quite dumb.
Idk if usernames count as “attribution”, even, but I assume the results would be the same if an account was named Jeremy Assface, Ted Bundy, or Adolf Hitler even if the user’s actual name was such. Not to compare Luigi to any of those people, no, but the point is usernames are moderated.
usernames are the only form of attribution that makes sense and has ever been used (aside from email, which is again practically a username)
Therefore ownership means nothing, and “theft” no longer exists.
WOAH WOAH WOAH… hold on there Circuitfarmer (checks clipboard) It says here you’re not nearly affluent enough to circumvent the law… we’ll be keeping a close eye on you… --BB
I managed to convince my brother in law by using the wrongful death case of Kanokporn Tangsuan as an example. Framed it as his moral responsibility to never sign up for any digital media ever again since he has a family. I pointed him to a few resources to sail the high seas and he’s got his high seas pc hooked up to his TV and cancelled all his subscriptions. I’m so proud.
