Who is surprised?
The day FL studio works natively (potato puter) on Linux is the day I fully switch no questions
You may have a look at bigwig. It isn’t exactly Fruity loops but is also a very suitable DAW and runs native on Linux.
I will take a look but I am addicted to FL piano roll, it’s just… Soooo good
I always wonder where the line is for the majority of people, maybe there isn’t one and they know it. You’ve got to hand it to Microsoft nearly 30 years and they still have the majority.
Doesn’t it say more about the users than Microsoft? Seems to me that people who don’t care about computers will accept anything coming from big tech…
They don’t relly know better. Windows is familiar, Linux sounds too complicated and techy. Hell, I was thinking the same and I’m reasonably tech savvy. It’s infinitely more friendly than I’d ever expect.
People are afraid of change and unknown. Though ironically Linux might actually be closer to the original Windows experience that Win11 is (speaking from my limited experience with Mint)
Right in front of me is a guy editing a >10 page LaTeX file in Overleaf on a 13 inch laptop. The sidebar takes like 1/3rd of the screen. The editor in around 3 inches in width, and he needs to zoom into the PDF preview to read it.
The point in, some people simply don’t care about anything.
Yeah, I guess it means they know people don’t care, and they can do what they want. What are you going to do, use the scary CLI OS that’s for nerds. Or spend loads of money on a walled garden, no just stay in the cosy middle.
All my windows friends and family just don’t care, computers are a utility, and they won’t learn something as easy as Mint or Bazzite. To them, they still see Linux as it was in the 2000s.
There are whole businesses dedicated to MS, like everything they do is MS. You hire an IT firm, they’ll plonk a load of Dells in your offices and spin up Exchange 2019 where everything bespoke is programmed in C#, despite their being better products because it’s all they know. They spent all that money on MS partnerships.
Microsoft have created a stable ecosystem we didn’t learn in the late 90s or the mid 2000s and we will carry on because at this point it’s effort. Unless you’re Germany…
This is the thing Lemmy nerds don’t understand:
For most people, using a PC is a chore.
To most people, using a PC is like mopping a floor, or cleaning a car. It’s a boring - even unpleasant - task that you need to do every once in a while. They’d rather be on their phone or their iPad.
When you already view using your PC as a chore, and some Linux user says to you “hey, if you spend a day backing up all your files, creating an install USB, installing Linux, reinstalling your programs, logging back in to everything, moving your data back across, and relearning how to use a PC, it’ll be worth it in the long run!”, you will just ignore their advice. It’s easier just to say “nah, I only occasionally need my PC when I want to update my CV or write a long email anyway.”
They put up with an hour or two of MS’s bullshit every few months. They don’t like it, but they also don’t care enough about putting effort in so that in future, the chore of using a PC only feels half as bad. At the end of the day, either way, it’s still a chore.
In the same way that they also don’t care enough about saving 10 mins every time they clean their car to do the initial work of claybar-ing, polishing, then waxing it.
You are correct, but on the other hand it doesn’t hurt to make the average person aware of alternatives.
Can be especially effective when the person buys a new PC and needs to do all the stuff you mention anyway. Yes, it is still a new OS, but honestly, it’s not that different - especially if the person remembers older Windows versions, it might just feel like going to familiar places (I know this is something my wife would really apreciate as she hates the constant changes of how things look). Obviously depends on distro, only have experience with Mint.
I’m saying this from a position of a resonably tech savvy, but not your average tech nerd (at least knowledge wise lol). Sure there are differences under hood but I don’t think the average user would really notice them that much.
Yes, small things could quickly put ordinary people off Linux with the current state of software. I’m involved in running an organization that needs to submit reports regularly to the government using their online forms. Unfortunately the forms are PDFs that only seem to work in recent versions of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Any other software results in a more or less broken form. I haven’t yet found anything in Linux (even on Wine) that handles these forms properly. So sometimes I have to use Windows.
For me there are still enough benefits to using Linux that I continue with it as my main OS, but for most people they’d quickly get annoyed by obstacles like this. Of course the government shouldn’t be using one company’s proprietary format that only runs on commercial OSes for their forms, but that’s the way it is for now.
Well, the PDF format was created by Adobe and even though they somehow got it to technically be considered an open document format. They are to my knowledge still the only entity with a complete implementation in existence. Just some food for thought.
The gov and higher education should be forced to use open source software. I would absolutely support that.
If you buy a PC it has Windows on it. The majority of people are not cocking about formatting a USB stick and fiddling with the BIOS to put Linux on it. They aren’t thinking about operating systems at all, and if you need specific software for work, chances are it isn’t going to run on anything other than Windows. If you don’t need it for work, you’ve probably just got a tablet by now and store all your photos on Facebook.
That comic really reminds me of trying to degoogle and FOSSify my computer as a complete novice. Multiple, extremely frustrating times, I’ve wanted to install something but I genuinely have not been able to understand the installation instructions. I also don’t know enough to know what the right search terms are to find out what I’m meant to do.
I’m still trying but it’s fucking demoralising.
If you buy a PC it has Windows on it. The majority of people are not cocking about formatting a USB stick and fiddling with the BIOS to put Linux on it.
And increasingly the majority of people don’t even bother to keep a PC anymore and just use their phone
Exactly. We used to have a massive chain of shops called PC World, and that eventually became Currys/PC World, and is now just Currys.
The age of computers came and went, and people still need washing machines and TVs. They still sell laptops I think, but if you want anything from their range of “gaming” PCs, they have to order it in, usually from one of the many stores online that will build them for you.
Windows already lost. It lost to Android.
There is no such thing as a line, it seems to be a long gradient and its about how fast you move on the gradient. If you ever so slightly introduce more and more crap slowly enough, people don’t care as they forget how good they had it much earlier.
Sometimes they boil the frog too quickly, in which case they turn down the heat, wait 3 months, then turn it back up again.
Imagine the backlash if they just went straight from Windows XP to W11. There would be so much whiplash.
Boiling the frog
Great way of putting it
It’s because Apple products are heinously expensive, and Linux is far more hassle than most people are willing to go to.
There’s also Chrome OS, I have no idea if it’s any good though.
From my limited experience using it on a shitty Chromebook for school (granted also pretty locked down) and it’s not great. Pretty much only useful for doing web things and the Google ecosystem. I also have no idea whether it’s even possible to get it on anything else.
From a UI perspective I didn’t really like it l, especially as it and other chrome apps got more and more sleek and curvy. I did grow up using a Linux mint laptop though, only getting a dual booted Linux/Windows PC in highschool for some games that needed it as well as running SOLIDWORKS at home. (thanks to my dad for all that lol)
I agree, I don’t think they have any limit. Look at how invasive platforms like Facebook are, and yet they’re still massively popular. Mobile operating systems are several times worse than Windows is for privacy and data harvesting, and people clearly don’t care at all. They’ll even happily consent to ever more levels of it - there’s no evidence to suggest that they’ll ever stop.
One of the biggest “mistakes” Microsoft made was not realizing how lucrative data collection could be. Back in the quaint old days of early PC computing, spyware was actually considered a bad thing. When Google came along, that philosophy was flipped on its head. Over the past 15 years, Microsoft has seeing what these spyware vendors are doing and salivating because they know that they are still the kings of computing - they still have total control the PC market and there’s a good chance that it’s not really going anywhere because most people hate change - even though Linux is starting to make inroads in quite a few places.
It would not be surprising if, in a few years, a Windows OS looks like a Google search page, or a cable television channel.
This is the same false analogy people make as to why Americans drive giant trucks to shift blame… it’s not the manufacturers who are pushing these cars to circumvent taxes, it is the users for demanding it.
Very few people actually like these invasive shit Microsoft pulls, but the vast majority either do not know about them, understand them or feel they have another choice. For example, I hate MS, I understand what dog shit this Recall feature is, yet my job will provide a Windows machine with it and I have no choice but to use it.
I am a nerd so at home I do have everything running on Linux. But for the majority of people that would be a unknown option or just an unobtainable one
I don’t give a shit about what work gives me saying all I’m doing is work on that thing. Now what I’m really afraid of is Microsoft pulling data from the sensors on the device when I’m working from home with it. I need too think of a way to deal with it (I do not have a separate room for work)
We drive giant trucks because the small ones are cheap pieces of shit, with inferior designs, inferior engines, and inferior driveline components, that aren’t rated to tow or haul anything.
Install Linux, it’s easier, leaner, faster than windows shit, it’s also free, does actual security, and won’t ever spy on you.
Send in the down votes
If only driver support was the same as in Windows, or if windows drivers other than networking ones can be used in Linux.
Does Lemmy not like Linux all of a sudden…?
There are more users now, some are tired of the Linux recommendations in every thread.
They are wrong of course and should just switch. :)
It’s not that, it’s mainly because they’re tired of being browbeaten and having their freewill raped by someone who is basically being just yet another marketer. A marketer that is pushing a free product. To them, it’s just one more obnoxious annoying ad that they have to deal with and block.
We fucking get it, Linux is there, they know. They aren’t switching in the numbers that you’re to meet, mr.free marketer. They just want you to shut the fuck up and leave them alone.
And that automatically puts you in the wrong everytime. So take your pompous attitude and choke on it.
Bit weird to be so angry about this. The commenter is not ‘basically just another marketer’ because they have nothing (financial or otherwise) to gain from others using linux. They genuinely believe it is a better product and it is in your interests to use it.
Direct your anger at Microsoft if you feel as though you are being forced to do anything, they the ones choosing to enshitify Windows, and removing it as a viable option.
When you’re going around on EVERY. SINGLE. MICROSOFT. THREAD. to say “GO ON LINUX! IT MAKES YOU HARD IN YOUR PANTS!” YOU are by and large, being a marketer. Just because you aren’t getting paid for it or aren’t directly affiliated, doesn’t remove that ability that you’re going around advertising for this product.
Bit weird to be so defensive on this and re-purpose what marketing is when you just outlined what marketing is like.
No I won’t direct my anger at Microsoft, don’t you tell me shit. I’m directing my anger at you and the OP because of shit like this with the whole Linux parade that always happens whenever anything is reported about Microsoft.
I would’ve thought that Linux usage going over 1% for once in a long time, would’ve been enough to shut you guys the fuck up. Guess not. Gotta inflate numbers. Gotta promote GROWTH!
So sick of you Linux clowning fanboys parading your free advertising. Bit weird of you to justify that, ain’t it? Bit weird.
Stop raping people’s free choice already, just stop. You don’t see Windows users telling Linux users to go use Windows, do you? No, you don’t.
Nobody is attacking your free choice, they’re literally trying to give you another option. That’s what free choice is all about.
If you are making an informed devision to remain with windows as it gets worse and worse, then that is up to you, but don’t come at people for trying to offer you an alternative just because you’ve made that decision.
Loser
It’s not that, it’s mainly because they’re tired of being browbeaten and having their freewill raped
Ok. Stick with the company that’s forcing recall on you.
Okay, I’ll stick to an OS that currently don’t have that feature and still got a few years left of extensive support. Of which I’ll still be on said OS even if support truly ends, by which comes time to consider upgrading, Microsoft will already be on the next Windows version.
See how your blatant and baseless assumption falls apart? Idiot.
Off is the direction in which I would like Microsoft to fuck if they think I’m gonna have a deep learning AI spy on my computer activity.
This just makes me want to switch to Linux.
Stop threatening. Commit. Take the leap. A lot of us here are already on the other side and we’ll help you find your footing.
And it is not scary. A simple distro like Mint, figure out where the software repositories live, how to use thr off8xe suite, and you’re done. Life is "great*.
Free software with no ads, and things that are built for purpose over profit. Going back to Windows is jarring when I use it now.
Anecdotally it hasn’t been that hard. I’ve had the best luck with Linux Mint just working straight out of the box. I basically only use my computer to game so your mileage may vary if you need specialized software or something.
Also the benefit of mint is that Ubuntu has a huge user base comparatively so you can find a lot of info online for people who have probably already figured out issues that you might encounter.
Lots of support already but I made it switch in December last year and no regrets. There’s a bit of a learning curve getting used to a new environment but the computer actually becomes a tool you can shape to your needs rather than changing how you work so your computer will do it.
back up all your shit and move to linux. start with mint, thats the best one for total beginners imo
Try Fedora! I did and love it!
Do it. I made the switch a few months ago and its so much better
Do it.
Fedora KDE or Linux Mint is the way
cinnamon, gnome, xfce? Many flavors of Mint
Reading MS description of Recall, I am struggling to come up with a scenario where it would be any use. Sounds like the backspace button would work almost as well at a fraction of the resources needed.
There’s a smell of it being some pet project of a big architect.
Windows 10 had a feature called ‘Timeline’. It wasn’t particlarly wanted by many people and it cluttered up an otherwise somewhat useful task overview. It was canned.
This seems to be that guy saying “Hey, I know you canned Timeline on me and called it a failure, but that’s just because we didn’t AI it up, and now we can and everyone is going to want it!”
As a forensics analyst I can’t wait lol
Yeah, I feel like any program I would want to use this in already has Ctrl+Z to do just that.
Can anyone think if any use case at all?
As a small business, I need MS office & 2 other pieces of software that have no Linux versions. Rightly pissed off that I’ll have to upgrade my main machines to Win 11 by Oct 25.
I’m guessing those pieces of software won’t run in wine? Its pretty good these days.
I’ve never tried. Does it handle random applications or would they need to be on a list?
it will attempt anything. just search around for anyone else whose tried the app. odds are pretty good.
Have you looked into OnlyOffice. Nice office suite that saves in MS file extensions. Use it all the tjme
MS office PWA is nearly indentical to the desktop apps these days. I switched to linux where I use outlook and excel via pwa for work, and it’s been fine. My M$ centered workplace is actually setting up an option to use linux on their laptops soon, too. I can’t wait for that.
The web app is nowhere near as powerful as the desktop app. I need the desktop app for about 25% of my work.
Which one specifically? Outlook is identical, and excel is nearly the same. Excel is just missing a couple developer mode options like adding a checkbox to a cell, which were basically just gimmicky imo anyways.
Regedit the shit off your systems
If you cant uninstall the software, it isnt your computer. If you tell it to do something and it says no, it is not your computer.
I dont understand why people tolerate anything else. Its maddening.
Do you tolerate the TPM/fTPM in your computer? Can you deactivate it? Can you query it? Can you tell it to do something?
I don’t even know what that is
Yes, you can remove and interact with your TPM chip. I don’t know why you’re coming in so hot on this person, your last name Ballmer or something?
I agree but technology hasn’t really been “ours” for a long time. Rooting, jailbreaking, and open source is the only way to take back a modicum of control.
On Arch you can easily uninstall Linux.
The fun part is that there are even legit reasons to do so, the by far most likely one being that you want to use a different package that provides you with a kernel, such as linux-lts or linux-hardened. Definitely know what you are doing in that case though!
Linux in general and Arch in particular are kinda laissez-faire in that they’ll allow you to shoot yourself in the foot. Some distros may put barriers in your way, others practically hand you the gun, but at the end of the day, the gun is freely available and it’s your own foot that you’re shooting.
Microsoft also wants to use 50 gigabytes of your hard drive space (for the Recall snapshots) and make you buy AI co-processors or their software won’t work. They want to use your property to create their own Skynet.
Soeaking of coprocessors…if it’s not in the cpu die, I wonder if we can just desolder the stupid AI chip.
Because they make it easy and do a few cool things.
“Do you want a mic in your home that can record everything you say and do and send that data off to wherever the company chooses?”
“No of course not.”
“What about of it will also turn your lights on and off and play despacito on demand?”
“You son of a bitch, sign me up”.
This is also the reason why typing on the TV is so bad and the remote has a huge microphone button on it.
Ok, has anyone got DCS World on VR working on Linux? I really want to ditch my Windows gaming machine, I already don’t use it for anything serious, but this is getting ridiculous.
If you have dual GPUs or an iGPU plus a GPU, you can use passthrough and play your games with near native performance in an isolated Windows virtual machine under Linux.
Ok, but what happens when you shut down the virtual machine and start it back up? Do you have to reinstall the game?
Also do I have to have 2 expansion slot GPUs or will the MB built in GPU that is not being used, work for this purpose?
To answer the first part, when you shutdown the VM, your stuff will persist, so no you will not have to reinstalled all your stuff on the VM every time.
For the second part of your question, (to my knowledge, please correct me if I’m wrong) no Mobo has a built in GPU, some CPUs have integrated graphics and I believe you can get that to work on the VM as well. Otherwise you could use integrated on the Linux host OS and use your GPU for the VM exclusively, but your overall performance may take a hit when not using the VM
I’m in the process of switching to Linux on my main rig; still got a lot of shit to figure out but it’ll be worth it in the end.
And no, I’m not being a Linux fanboy, I’m just tired of being Microsoft’s bitch.
And no, I’m not being a Linux fanboy
Most of us aren’t, we just get labeled as such for not being willing to use an OS that uses and abuses us
That’s how it starts. Gabba gabba we accept you, one of us, one of us.
These labels are pointless anyway. Use tech that respects you as a user. Microsoft is not it.
Challenge accepted…
I hope enough companies realize the inherent danger to their IP this feature brings. Or that the government realizes the inherent danger to CUI data and forces there to be an admin level lock of the feature so normal users can’t just turn it on.
I and many others can’t just switch to Linux because we are required to use company laptops/desktops that are admin locked.
shouldn’t be doing personal stuff on work computer. let the company deal with recall if they don’t want their shit leaked.
They didn’t mention personal stuff
then he/she can let the organization decide about recall, it’s not up to him at this point unless he’s the owner. maybe the organization wants recall to further spy on employees and that’s a different reason to not work for them at that point.
That… that’s what they were saying, no? Companies should worry about their shit.
If the US government bitching was enough to get the flight simulator easter egg removed from Excel (allegedly), I can’t imagine a similar stern glare from the Pentagon would not cause Recall to magically turn out to be uninstallable after all. At least from any US government owned computers originally so equipped.
Anyway, isn’t this only going to roll out on “Copilot” compatible PC’s with the requisite AI acceleration chips in them? I would be furthermore immensely surprised if it could not be locked out in Group Policy for corporate customers.
Specially since there’s no Microsoft app that has ever securely functioned past a few days. This thing is gonna be hacked as soon as it comes out an we won’t know until until there’s an investigation into the accidental death of thirty innocent people as passengers in some vehicle somewhere controlled by windows 11 or something… Boeing re-entry vehicle maybe? Nah! You guys are good! Just jump in and come back home already!
Somewhere, some patent lawyers are going to make millions debating about whether or not this constitutes “public disclosure”.
I can’t wait until the first breach caused by Recall hits the FCC. It’s definitely gonna happen.
Another thread about microsoft which is brigaded by the Linux fanboys. Just create a thread about Linux to suck each others dicks in.
How about adressing the issue instead of just cresting strawmen about the messengers?
This feature is an actual fundamrntal privacy issue.
Lol write your own fanfiction.
Just finally switched my gaming PC to Linux mint. It works flawlessly. I can even re-use the steam game files I downloaded on Windows. Never going back.
Yeah I’ve been gaming exclusively on Linux for many years now, but sure, a few games don’t work. I’m OK with that since almost all actually do work.
