- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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I just read Junji Itos Long Dream Manga, this reminded me of that. It’s a good read if you have the time.
I know it’s a shitpost, but the idea behind something like this is counter to the point of rehabilitation. Civilization should move towards rehabilitation instead of punishment as the idea is that you want to integrate someone back into society. I am not sure inducing trauma and mental damage is conducive to rehabilitation.
Technology like this could actually be used to help the rehabilitation process by dilating time, and allowing the offender to be rehabilitated without actually wasting much of their actual life.
It would most likely be used for harsh punishment in this universe, but its nice to imagine living in a better one, sometimes.
It sucks that it would never be used for speed rehab and instead for eternal torture.
I’m like 99% sure it would just make the time feel longer without any benefit of consciousness. Kind of like certain drugs make everything feel like it’s slow motion, but you still don’t get superhuman reflexes from them.
I think you’re exactly right. I’m not in any way qualified to make this statement but, if I’m right, you can’t just make the brain “go faster” and get more useful time without time actually passing. Processes need to happen in the brain for thoughts to occur, and you’d have to somehow speed those up… I mean there are chemical reactions happening in your nerve endings, how are those going to speed up? Especially by a factor of >1000 as implied by the OOP!
Processes need to happen in the brain for thoughts to occur
I disagree. I’ve had experiences far longer than their real life counterparts in dreams.
I know it’s a shitpost, but the idea behind something like this is counter to the point of rehabilitation.
Its counter to our understanding of entropy. Brains simply don’t work like this.
Can you elaborate?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071211233934.htm
Even though participants remembered their own falls as having taken one-third longer than those of the other study participants, they were not able to see more events in time. Instead, the longer duration was a trick of their memory, not an actual slow-motion experience.
Your memory is imperfect. But your actual capacity to perceive time is still limited by the facilities you use for that prescription.
One experimental result does not define the entire domain of consciousness.
You are essentially making a statement of the form “X does not and cannot exist”, which is always a logical fallacy.
So I was on a jury pool in December.
After the attorneys for both sides finished their dog and pony show, the judge himself made each of us answer the following question:
What is the purpose of criminal incarceration?
A - Punishment
B - Deterrence
C - Rehabilitation
After all seventy five of us had answered, all of us who responded with anything other than punishment were dismissed. Even those who answered a combination of the choices. Nope. Punishment was the only correct answer.
To my amusement, this barely left enough people available to fill the jury box.
I followed the case. Guy robbed a convenience store. No death. No injury. Got fifty nine years.
Theoretically, if you had such technology, maybe you could use it to rehabilitate instead of punish. Being able to undergo months or years of therapy in a matter of hours could be extremely beneficial.
i’m not sure how this could really work. good therapy requires the person of the therapist, and it additionally takes place within the context of a client’s living. are there therapists willing to give up subjective years over and over and over? how does the client try new things, gain understanding without the feedback of their life between sessions? also - therapists seek information and process their work with clients between sessions.
on top of all this, i’m not yet convinced this would be psychologically healthy for either.
I think that the therapist(s) in this case would have to be AI. The person could be in their own little simulation, experiencing a reality tailored to addressing whatever psychological problems they might have. It’s all science fiction, anyhow. There’s no theoretical, let alone practical basis for this technology afaik.
There is though, it’s called time hallucinations and it fucking sucks when you’re sober. I occasionally get them. It’s not like everything is slow motion it’s more like you’re bored and this meeting is taking forever, but exaggerated and it takes normal activities and makes them that kind of boring.
if someone could actually get new information and insight under something like this, why would we use it in a prison instead of putting people to study the whole of human knowledge and create demi-god wizards?
I mean, setting aside the danger inherent in creating demi-god wizards, there’s no reason they couldn’t do both.
The movie “Other life” demonstrates how this could go wrong.
I can’t imagine anyone coming out sane.
I want that so much, get 10 university degrees, learn to play the guitar, become a master craftsman, all in a day.
While that would indeed be awesome, that’s not the route they proposed. It’s more about slowing down the perception of time, rather than being able to actually do something peoductive during that.
Philosopher Rebecca Roache, who leads a team of scholars, explains two methods to this madness. The first involves psychotic drugs that distort a person’s sense of time.
With a simple pill or injection, prisoners may believe they’ve been incarcerated for much longer than any natural human life could allow.
The second approach Roach explains is a bit more complex. Option number two involves uploading human minds to computers (da f*ck?), and speeding up the rate at which the brain functions. On her blog, Roach writes: "[…] This would, obviously, be much cheaper for the taxpayer than extending criminals’ lifespans to enable them to serve 1,000 years in real time.”
https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/new-technology-could-make-inmates-feel-like-theyre-serving-a-1000-year-sentence-in-8-hours-scrol/Despite thinking, “wow that’s a disgusting way to see and treat humans”, and some obvious moral concerns (like, social isolation for what feels like 1000 years, which will fuck up most people badly), which make this feel like a black mirror episode, the mind-upload issue is technically extremely tricky. Even if we had the technology to “upload” the human mind, it will be a copy, a clone, not you individually. And if we don’t have an option to download the copy back into your brain, it will just be a waste of energy.
More importantly, an intriguing question is raised: After such a download, will this be you? Or just a copy of a copy and thereby another being which just replaces another one.
Another thing I find important to ask here: what’s the point of penalties? These suggestions seem to me like psychological torture rather than measures to “correct” social behaviour. In no way resocialisation seems to matter here. So we just fuck people up by that and unleash them onto society afterwards. Doesn’t sound good to me.
Sorry for not keeping my reply focused on your idea. I had some time to spare and this kept me busy.
Many peopke do believe the goal of criminal justice system is punishment. So this is great for them, it stream lines the process
Well it definitely isn’t reforming the prisoners…
Well it definitely isn’t reforming the prisoners…
depends which country. Your country can also reform prisoners.
Everything I’m talking about has been US prisons. Are there other countries that actually have a working system?
And yes, the US could reform prisoners, but then theybwouodnt come back to prison and they would lose money…
The technology required to do any of this would allow for so much stuff, and their first idea is how to use it to imprison people? What the actual fuck?
With all the productivity increases over last 100 years, the ruling class finally realised that they don’t need as big a society as before in order to serve their needs.
As a result, they tried hiring Thanos. When that failed, they had an idea: enlarge the prisons.
These are the stories of these poor souls
Dum dum (in SVU opening style)
A few trillion years trapped punching your way out of a time loop…
Sorry, best I can do is knitting and crochet. But think of all the sweaters and socks you’ll have.
Well at least all the restaurants will be Taco Bell
You mean Pizza Hut of course
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Can I use this to make my 48 hour weekend feel like a 480 hour weekend?
No, because its a technological fantasy.
People can “lose time” such that they don’t realize how long they’ve been unconscious. But they can’t “gain time”. That’s not how brains work. You can’t get an extra six weeks to study for an exam an hour before the test. Nothing will let you do that. Its pure wizard-tier shit.
There are stories of people experiencing whole lifetimes within dreams, especially within comas, as well as hallucinogenic trips that seem to last many years.
The human brain is a lot weirder than we know.
And it should be deeply troubling that if we ever learn to manipulate this kind of time perception that some people want to turn it towards torture, and they could get state backing to do so.
If those situations can create strong memories about things that didn’t physically happen, then it seems like almost anything can appear to have happened from that individual’s perspective.
From the individual’s standpoint, once they are awake they can’t really tell the difference between having experienced X and having vivid false memories of experiencing X.
Maybe some kind of real time brain scanning/monitoring could help tell the difference.
There are stories of people experiencing whole lifetimes within dreams
There are anecdotes about people claiming to remember living whole lifetimes within dreams.
Even taking this utterly impossible to prove claim at face value, there’s no way to replicate anything like that in practice.
And it should be deeply troubling
I’m about as concerned with this as the possibility someone might try to reverse my gravity or Frankenstein my head into someone else’s torso.
The plural of “anecdote” is “data”, and this is a fairly commonly reproduced story. I don’t know if you understand just how much of psychology and medicine in general is literally just self-reports. If we refused to listen to anybody about their personal stories, we’d know next to nothing about the human mind, and there are absolutely ways to correlate certain states of mind to external measures like FMRI scans.
this is a fairly commonly reproduced story
The “falling dream” is a fairly common reproduced story. But “we’re going to invent a device that gives you the falling dream” is a big claim and “we’re going to give you a heart attack in your sleep by inflicting the falling dream on you” is an even bigger one.
I don’t know if you understand just how much of psychology and medicine in general is literally just self-reports.
Self-reports substantiated with medical data to correlate the symptoms with real physical conditions.
You don’t rush a guy with chest pains into the ER, then skip the EKG.
And if the guy with the chest pains says “These pains feel like they’ve been happening forever”, you don’t put “forever” on his medical record under “onset of symptoms”.
there are absolutely ways to correlate certain states of mind to external measures like FMRI scans
States of mind are very different than conditions of physiology. And even they have their limits. The title card is pure fiction. And trying to tie it back to “a feeling I had when I woke up from a dream” isn’t any kind of evidence-based analysis.
Unless you have a point then there’s nothing here to respond to.
I really wish people would learn to say what they mean.
I once had a dream like that, maybe 20 years ago. When I woke up, I was like:
“Oh, this is my old room. But how…? It was just a dream! Now I get to live it.”
It was a wonderful feeling. People would be hooked on it if it would be reproducible.
I also have memories of what happened in there, but I’m fully aware that my brain could be projecting.
Don’t say that, now some CEO is yelling at his staff to figure it out.
There’s definitely ways to make a few minutes feel like hours. Unfortunately those ways aren’t really that pleasant…
There’s definitely ways to make a few minutes feel like hours.
There’s ways to remember a few minutes as having felt like hours. But that’s very different from experiencing minutes as hours.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071211233934.htm
Sounds like you found some more time that you could be working!
Fuuu…
You can now work 2,047 hours per week.
But don’t worry, you’ll be appropriately rewarded with a partially eaten slice of pizza (the CEO didn’t like it).What’s my wage. Death?
No, sorry. Ethically, this technology can only be used for torture.
Free movie on YouTube called other life that is about this
Wait this could maybe be good if used very responsibly. When I had my last shroom trip, i was gone so long that I had to meet every single one of my friends again, but i had so much time to learn and think in that time span (it was also horrible). Dangerous concept for sure though lol
I agree - figuring out how to take advantage of time dilation for therapeutic purposes would be very cool, and potentially quite useful. This is kind of what I hope comes from renewed research into psychedelics, being able to pick out the mechanisms for all the different effects and developing techniques to cherrypick just a few with therapeutic benefit with a much reduced risk of freak out. We may already be there re:time dilation alone with TCMS or something, idk.
But real talk - which do you see getting funded for wider use first, 5 year retreat in an hour, or psychic prison?
(Actually, saying it at loud it might be even odds, depending on the price tag folks can assign to the retreat)
I’m also kinda scrambled now though
It’s ok to be a little scrambled. You may have gained insight into a better way to exist that conflicts with the way your society is organized.
I once had a dream lasting months, ultra vivid.m, ending in a futuristic battle scene in which everyone around me was massacred and then I was killed last. Woke up, and three minutes had passed since I last looked at my phone.
Like for real months, like 30 days, 24 hours? Or the dream skipped through that timespan?
You’ve seen Total Recall right? I don’t know.
I remember a long period of wandering the countryside. Long conversations with farmers over dinner, them letting me bed down in their barns or guest rooms. Doing a little chores for each one. I remember the feeling of excitement slowly growing as I got closer to the man I was tracking.
But maybe it was just memories that appeared in my head.
The battle scene alone was well over three minutes, and it was just the very end of the dream.
But you never know.
I do remember I woke up in a literal cold sweat. As in my skin was cold to the touch, and I was covered in sweat, and my heart was racing, and I was full of adrenaline and terrified. I’ve never woken up like that, and never had a cold sweat in my life outside of that.
This actually happens often for me now. I find that afterward it’s almost like coming down from a real psychedelic trip, for the entire day. And i have the clarity to recall memories from my childhood that i once thought lost, lasting the whole day
In my case it happened during the last weeks of my mother’s life. I was staying with her and taking care of her.
I was really bitter about it. I was in denial that it was the end, and I just saw it as I didn’t get to be with my friends and my new life in the city I’d moved to just out of college.
So I did a meditation, where I was doing something with my heart chakra, trying to remind myself to be grateful for my mother and this chance to see her, and trying to remind myself she was dying.
Uber driver, gotta go, upvote and ask me for more if you want rest of story.
That’s one way to mind break somebody into becoming a slave with no willpower to fight back
So it’s all going perfectly to plan.
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I agree billionaire bad but they’re not funding this, there are no billionaires funding this, there aren’t any billion dollar companies researching this either, nor is any state funding going to this from any recognized country. So far all the research on this has been carried out by journalists and screenplay writers, none of it as yet has been entered for peer review or clinical trials.
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Yes where could the money be coming from? let’s look - yep zero is from billionaires, I guess that is 100% so we’re both right…
No the billionaires are expendables. This is just the pure work of the system
The corporations are automatons and every human inside them is expendable
They are psychopath murder machines spanning internationally and with no laws or governance hindering their rampage of death
We should use it on billionaires!
I wouldn’t want to see how someone would react after going through something like that. Sounds like a supervillain origin story or some shit. “Jokes on you, it was a simulation! Now grab your stuff, you are free to go!”
Of all the eldritch horrors the cosmos has to offer none have more potential than some mortal apes on a random planet.
DS9 already did it.
The Culture already did it
Surface Detail - Iain M Banks
Outer Limits did it too: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667983/
The Sentence. It stars Niles from Frasier (David Hyde Pierce)
And showed why it was a bad idea. Just another instance of the ‘painsphere’.
DMT already did it.
Miles O’Brien: “Fuck you.”
I’d rather just kill em than trap them in a thousand years of darkness
