It’s a temper tantrum turned into a personality.
Removed by mod
As someone who’s had several long debates with a neonazi on discord, it usually boils down to them saying “Goldbloom controls you, all your arguments are therefore nullified”
Their aptitude for dismissing information is amazing
Which is why we don’t debate them, and avoid giving them a public platform!
After we had our fun with them we banned them. We still laugh about it to this day
They get to feel superior to vast swaths of the population without doing anything.
Probably generally starting with either an inferiority complex, or being a sociopath.
Emotions are stronger then intellect, much stronger. And most of these people suffered in bad childhoods and were drilled or neglected into disempathy. (That’s not the necessary reaction to such childhoods but it’s a common reaction.)
suffered in bad childhoods
Just to say, but what causes those things are hate and fear.
The second one doesn’t require trauma.
Fear is a general human trait woven into our existences and should/could be reduced in a loving and supporting childhood. If love and support are missing in your childhood you don’t learn to handle your fears in a mature and stable way.
(I know I’m painting this picture with a very broad brush. It’s to point in the general direction of feelings as the most plausible and applicable answer to OPs question.)
To be fair, those involved in the bad childhoods also are likely to have bad childhoods themselves (the adults I mean).
Transgenerational stuff, victims becoming offenders and the likes.
Yep, you’re right, that’s what’s meant here.
Ok so your telling me since when I was bad in my childhood and spanked with a switch that I can become one?
That’s certainly their rationale.
Anyone can become filled with hate.
No. Your response to such childhood is very individual. It’s a very common stance to live your life the opposite way of your parents lifestyle. That’s what produced the 1960s air of change in culture - hippies lived the very opposite of their parents ideals.
I simply point out well researched patterns in childhoods and their influence on character traits. Look up developmental psychology and transgenerational patterns. In Germany there’s a lot of research and publication about “war children” and “war grandchildren” (Kriegskinder und Kriegsenkel) which in general attributes a lot of the countries troubles and shortcomings to the upbringing of kids in a war and post war society with a lot of shame and guilt.
It’s weird how some people turn into neo-nazis or incels after that and I just pay sexy Russian dom mommies to beat me within an inch of my life.
Additionally to what has already been mentioned: People are susceptible to politics that confirm their prejudices. Right-wing political thought is largely based on confirming that whatever prejudices people hold, they are morally good and justified. Thus elevating an in-group above out-groups. That is a powerful lure.
Bigotry has been about ignorance. It has always been about manufacturing social division through propaganda.
Many of these people overreact to good faith criticism and are narcissistic. There are some statistics that people become less self centered as they get older and incels definitely fall into that trap.
As for nazis etc, lots of that comes from like a lack of critical thinking about conspiracy theories.
Incel isn’t something that you become.
This sounds like something an incel would say.
I mean, involuntary anything isn’t really a choice. It’s right there in the name.
But the original self-professed incel was a woman, complaining that she was “unfuckable”. The term now tends to describe mostly men who feel fury at some social system that prevents them from caging a TradWife into their house, rather than the 00s era college NEET who just feels like their youth is being wasted because they aren’t getting laid.
The cliquishness might be a choice, but the condition certainly isn’t.
Celibacy is a lifestyle choice. Wanting sex and not having it, is not what I would call “involuntarily adopting a lifestyle choice”. Incel is rather, like you said, the feeling of being “unfuckable”. The problem, as I see it, is that the majority of men in this position are voluntarily “unfuckable”. They are actively being unlikeable by doing things like treating women like they they should be required to like them, which in turn, makes them “unfuckable”.
The problem, as I see it, is that the majority of men in this position are voluntarily “unfuckable”.
The original incel was a college aged woman who felt she was being rejected by all her male peers.
There isn’t a shortage of incel women. They just don’t get the five alarm five media coverage and right wing political pandering that men do.
Men are taught to fight one another for “prized” women, while women are taught that failing some commercial beauty standard means you doing get to have a love life.
So you end up with these PUA communities on the guy side - insufferable horndogs constantly chasing tail - while women become hermits out of shame.
Plenty of people in both pools are “fuckable”. But they’re poisoned into believing they can’t have mature relationships with one another by a mass media full of toxic tropes and derogatory standards.
It’s a term that’s taken on some additional baggage/meaning. Originally it simply meant someone who was involuntarily celibate - wants to have sexual relationships, but doesn’t. Now it usually refers to someone adhering to a kind of peculiar set of ideologies around that (see: social value theories taken to some often ridiculous extremes; good ol’ fashioned misogyny/perhaps misanthropy; etc.).
There’s a kneejerk reaction to incels in the latter sense because so much that comes out of that is pretty awful. That and it’s often folks who engage with the latter stuff who are more inclined to identify with the term incel - most others who just fit the former definition just say they’re single.
IMO the latter usage is just more proof that we are failing and continuing to fail men, badly, in terms of community and mental health supports.
Well said and agree.
Prob bcs they believe in conspiracy theories or watch and use and engage in sites that show this info
Why the link to conspiracy theories?
Why would knowledge of MKUltra or the Iran–Contra turn someone right wing?
I’ve seen more than a few people assert “horseshoe theory” on this subject. Since the Far Left and the Far Right are the same, they turn you right by sending you left.
Anti-Americanism makes you a Trump supporter or Xi supporter or whatever. And these fucked secret programs from the 60s and 70s make you anti-American. Ergo…
I would imagine it gives you the taste of “everyone is lying to you” and then latch on to… Other people still lying to you, but it’s just randoms online, they’d never lie like govt or the MSM.
It’s easy to fall into if you don’t have the critical thinking skills to sift through what is/isn’t bullshit.
Other people still lying to you, but it’s just randoms online, they’d never lie like govt or the MSM
I’m still not getting it. How does this lead to right wing? Why can’t conspiracies lead to left wing support?
Why should they lead to any particular political persuasion?
I think it leads people to the fringe in general, I wasn’t making the case for right wing specifically.
OK. I see.
I think this occurs most when a mainstream source mixes opinion and fact. People hear the opinion, over time it turns out to be incorrect so people move away from the mainstream.
When a fringe commentator states an opinion that later turns out to be incorrect, those errors are forgiven (or forgotten) or a similar replacement fringe content provider is consumed.
Bcs before I would see them believing in conspiracy theories most of them where in Instagram
It’s been going on long before insta lol
yeah like those “free speech” social media and propaganda sites
I mean before social media lol, before the internet even.
oh yeahhhh during the late 1930s till mid 1940s,etc
This youtube series is a great way to show how someone gets inundated and can turn https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&si=Vi0nUXZmyOhQ1-Pv
But here is somethings I noticed from my journey out of the right wing from my high school days.
First we were religious and we choose good decisions and other people’s choices were unwise and their fault but even though we lived in the same projects, our choices and how we lived their was unfortunate and their’s was their fault. It wasn’t explicit racism it was culture of racism. We were scared because we didn’t understand and thought we were superior since we were trying. Then we got better off and were in church more we got inundated with right wing propaganda on the economy and Frieman econmics blaming the government and socialism. We wanted to protect our jobs and our jobs blamed the government why they had to end manufacturing jobs in America. I graduated high school in 2010. I saw hatred towards Obama and noticed my side was with the KKK and I questioned it. That is how I got out. But if I kept to my beliefs I would have hated black people and others more. Thinking I was superior as a WASP (White Anglo Saxon protestant) since I made good decisions. My parents told me I could work through college and buy a house and everything and not to take out debt. So I tried that. It was impossible.
I blamed myself for not being good enough but I also didn’t do it right because I was testing it out and not using and abusing my connections. Which is how you get ahead. When I figured out I wasn’t enough and started to work with the people I know I was able to do more. But I could have blamed DEI stuff why I couldn’t get into college or get better jobs. But it was I just wasn’t good enough and the market is barren in Delaware.
My few relationships break ups I could have blamed it all on women and got a negative attitude with that too. Also since I was raised in the church a bit I could have said they should be a trad wife. But bleh
Back to being a Wasp. I could have blamed my failures and society failures on racist things or the color of my skin but I was lucky to realize it was the rich who fucked us all and the governments fault for letting it happen.
Blaming others for things going wrong doesn’t require thinking and being self reflecting.
They get a community that supports and enables then out of it.
I was raised in a left-leaning, progressive, atheist, LGBTQ+/minority-accepting household, but one surrounded by a white, largely conservative exurban community. I was raised to be inclusive of others, to be thoughtful, to be curious, to be polite and empathetic. I had good* parents who supported me, and taught me to treat others well.
In the middle of fifth grade, I transferred to a magnet program focusing on STEM concepts. It took me from a school that was almost entirely white, to a school which was very much multi-racial. I was really small for my age, nerdy, and the new kid. I’d always been bullied at school, but after the transfer it got a lot worse, and got pretty severely physical. A lot of the people who harassed me the worst were black. I honestly never understood the social circles enough to know what their deal was, and it certainly wasn’t only a race thing, but the fact that many of my tormentors were black wasn’t lost on me, to be sure.
When I was 11 or so, I used all the savings from a lifetime of cumulative birthdays, Christmas gifts, etc. to buy a laptop to play games on. Pretty quickly, gaming became all I did. It was an escape, and I enjoyed it. I played whatever F2P games I could. Diablo clones, random MMOs, shitty pay-to-win FPS games, whatever. My parents didn’t supervise my activities very closely, and to be blunt, I quickly became way more savvy than them about subverting any surveillance they tried to put in place anyways.
Eventually I started looking into hacks for games. I found a really large forum (think 25k members) for sharing game hacks, and joined up. By the time I was maybe 13-14 or so, I was one of the highest-ranking moderators on the forum. I hung out in their IRC server (which definitely isn’t the internet chat-rooms you’re supposed to be careful about, those are different) all day, dabbled in making my own (occasionally illicit) software and hacks, and was firmly in the community. These weren’t good people, but I didn’t know that. When I got home from school and got online, they asked me how my day was. They cared about me, they played games with me, they were my friends. I remember I was gone for like 2 weeks when I was seriously ill, and one of them tracked me down and called my house to check in on me. I didn’t think anything of it, because of course they could do that. I’d been in a Skype call with one of them who was screen sharing the array of webcams they had access to through their botnet. I didn’t realize at the time that they were probably blackmailing people, or holding their data ransom. We just hacked in video games, none of that actually serious stuff. The malware I was toying with was just because I was interested in it, and of course, my friends must have been too, right? Just a learning exercise. I figured I might try to go into cybersecurity when I started high school and could actually start taking courses in computer topics. Programming was SO fucking interesting!
My parents didn’t know what was going on. They should have. I was barely a teenager, I can’t possibly have been hiding my tracks all that well. But then, their marriage had started to fall apart, and things were bad a home. I didn’t know anything about that then, I was in my room gaming and running communities for terrible people. The headset kept their fighting far away from me. My parents didn’t know who I was hanging out with. They had raised me well, but now they weren’t doing what they should have been. So when my friends shared hateful content with me, “interesting” videos they’d found about how terrible women were, how violent minorities were, who was I to question it? They were speaking as those with knowledge. They taught me stuff, they knew better than me. And besides, I’d been physically harassed by black people before. I’d seen it for myself, right? My U.S. history teacher was REALLY smart, and she told us (in a MN classroom) that the civil war wasn’t actually about slavery either! That was super interesting to learn! And the women they complained about weren’t me. Just because a lot of the guys I hung out with had bitches for girlfriends didn’t mean they hated women, it was just bad luck with shitty women. Right?
I was a good person. I mean, I was a weird socially outcast nerd, but I wasn’t a bad person. My family was still caring. Still accepting. My Mom’s apartment was always a refuge for any of our friends, even (and especially) the queer ones who had been kicked out by their own terrible parents. They had a place to come and be safe and be themselves with us. So I was a good person too, right? Good people, smart people, they keep their online lives separate from their personal lives. They don’t talk about their online activities with others, and they don’t talk about their personal information with internet strangers in chatrooms. The only people I talked with were my FRIENDS. I ran their Minecraft servers. I discussed the Jordan Peterson videos they shared. He sounds so fucking smart after all. I hardly understand what he’s talking about, but I’m sure one day I will. And the parts I don’t understand, other people can explain to me. I laughed at their racist memes. After all, it’s just a joke. And of course, overt bigotry got stomped on. I was in charge, and I was a good person. I wouldn’t tolerate that sort of thing. But a dog-whistle is just a tool for training a pet, and we’d only ever kept cats.
I eventually joined a different gaming group on the side. We played Jailbreak in CS:S. I got really good at it. Really into it. And I stopped hanging out as much with my older friends. I still kept in touch, but I’d found a new hobby. These people weren’t good people either, but I mean, the fact that they liked my voice on mic wasn’t that they were creeping on a 15 year old who they wanted to fuck, it was because I had gotten a new microphone a few weeks ago and must have sounded good on it. I had gotten lucky though. These people weren’t great people, but they weren’t nearly as bad. They weren’t literally cybercriminals, just asshole kids on the internet. So when I became a moderator in THAT community and started running things, the community actually improved. But eventually that community collapsed, and I moved on again. And again. And again. I ended up with some Brits for a while, and “mate” settled itself into my vocabulary in a deeply unwelcome way.
I’ve been incredibly lucky. I’m 28 now. The last 14 years of my life, I’ve slowly climbed from one community to another, and mostly through random luck each of those have been better than the one I was leaving. I am surrounded now by some of my favorite people. They are TRULY good people. They care about others, and stand up for good causes. Some days, I even think maybe I might be a good person too. I wasn’t a good person. I fell WAY down the alt-right rabbit hole. I’m sure that I’ve hurt people, and I’ve made countless decisions that sicken me now. But I’ve been incredibly lucky. If I hadn’t been, I have no idea where I’d be now. Or what nonsense I’d still be believing, because everything around me told me it was normal.
You know how they say “Show, not tell” when writing? Excellent job mate, thanks for it
I’m glad you appreciated it! I think I can forgive the subtle jab xD
That was quite a read.
Thanks for sharing.
Genuinely, thanks for sharing your experience. I don’t think most people realize how insidiously easy it is to slowly slide down that path. I’m very glad to hear that you’re moving in a better direction these days.
Great writing style too, for what it’s worth.
Some days, I even think maybe I might be a good person too
You sound like a good person to me. That level of self reflection rarely / never leads to being a shithead in my experience.
Crazy story but a very interesting read. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
This is a fantastic read and a great explanation of how this can happen. You’ve come a long way and made it out the other side.
A lot of it comes from experiences they’ve had.
