Less than 10 seconds after officers opened the door, police shot Yong Yang in his parents’ Koreatown home while he was holding a knife during a bipolar episode.
Parents in Los Angeles’ Koreatown called for mental health help in the middle of their son’s bipolar episode this month. Clinical personnel showed up — and so did police shortly after.
Police fatally shot Yong Yang, 40, who had a knife in his hand, less than 10 seconds after officers opened the door to his parents’ apartment where he had locked himself in, newly released bodycam video shows.
Now the parents of Yang, who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder around 15 years ago, have told NBC News exclusively that they are disputing part of the account captured on bodycam, in which police recount a clinician’s saying Yang was violent before the shooting on May 2.
There needs to be a way to call for help from unarmed specialists. 😖
in the civilized world, there is. You call the police for an event like this, and they send their psych staff over with support. The issue where I am is that they work normal hours, so late night/weekends you’ll get the support team only (who are still not regular, untrained cops).
There needs to be a restructuring of the entire law enforcement system so blood-thirsty cops aren’t required to show up at all 911 calls with guns drawn.
There needs to be accounting and actual oversight from the community, their bosses who pay their checks to ensure they are held accountable and the actual number of times a cop murders a beloved family pet in front of the children, or murders the children, is actually tracked and recorded so we can see how bad the problem really is.
It’s almost as if we should, collectively, as a society, stop over-funding violent, tight-knit groups who cover for each other and ostensibly “uphold the public trust.”
I will say, I work ambulance for a very right wing rural community. I have done this for a number of years now.
While I do have issues at times with our local LEO, they do a good job with not shooting my patients, or their dogs.
They have done a good job in my community with securing the scene without escalating and then standing back and let us deal with medical/mental health crisis.
These stories do happen to often, and there are policy changes that need to happen, but there are a significant number of communities that have law enforcement who are acting appropriately and therefore get no news coverage.
The problem is not with the police organizations who are doing everything right, the problem is that much of the time we wouldn’t know if they are doing things wrong, because they cover for each other, because they are not incentivised to uphold their own standards, and run without enough supervision from local and federal bodies.
I’m sure there are millions of great police teams working in good communities out there. I think most people know that as well. We’re not calling for the good cops to be run out of town, we’re calling for the good cops to hold each other accountable.
The number of good cops doesn’t balance the equation here. If a major auto manufacturer announced that 2% of it’s millions of cars on the road had a fault where they may suddenly and spontaneously run off the road and seek out run over pets and dark skinned youths, but it’s okay because the rest of the 98% of the cars are just fine, well the public would be outraged and rightfully so. We don’t accept “some bad apples” in a lot of industries like doctors and pilots, so why are we accepting bad apples in police, the one organization that holds our society to account to follow laws and who’re we’re supposed to turn to in times of need?
It’s such a nuanced issue and comments like this are just dumb.
If criticism of our current law enforcement organization makes you feel this frustrated, you probably are not one of the people who have the most to worry about from police.
I’m definitely not and make no claims to be. But I’m not talking about criticism of law enforcement, that doesn’t frustrate me. I’m talking about no large scale societal problem is so easy to solve like I see posted here frequently relating to the police, government, climate change etc.
But unless you say ‘hurr durr, acab’ you’re a boot licking cunt.
It’s not the JOB of casual internet browsers to have all the answers, but it IS the job of the people we pay with our taxes to fix the problems with the systems we hired them to manage.
To say that normal, uneducated people on the internet have no voice unless they understand all the nuance and technical details of an issue, or that people who raise complaints against a system need to formulate an actionable and realistic plan? When you say that you are saying that you just don’t like the issue, that you don’t want to see people complaining and you don’t care about the issue because it doesn’t effect you.
If someone shoots me in the stomach, I will plead for help from medical personnel to fix the holes in my body, I may even have some suggestions like “Also, you will need to remove the bullet if possible, and maybe a round of antibiotics after!”
If the doctor rolls his eyes and says “Why do people think this is so simple to solve?” I will fucking go to different ER.
Instead of looking at the people who complain with disdain and impatience, ask why the problems of others are so ill-informed and see if you can figure out a way to help people foment better arguments. Otherwise you’re basically shining the boots for licking.
Oh fuck off
Thank you for proving that you’re not actually at all serious or care about anything and thus all your thoughts are not to be counted on this issue. You’re just pounding keys to express your anger at someone or something and want to make someone mad or make yourself worked up to validate your negative state. Got it.
There sort of is now but most people don’t know about it yet. Instead of 911, dial 988. I don’t think 988 sends people to you, but they are trained mental health specialists who can talk instead of shout and threaten violence.
Read more here: https://988lifeline.org/
Not likely helpful in a situation like this, but a truly helpful resource in other ways. Thanks!
TIL
I honestly don’t know what the hell you’re supposed to do in America if a loved one has a psychotic episode and threatens you, because calling the cops for help could be a death sentence for them, but not getting help could be a death sentence for you. Maybe make some sort of plan with neighbors in case something happens? But then you get the neighbors all worried that they’re living next to someone who could get dangerously psychotic. I’m not talking about what should be done if things were more ideal, I’m talking about what people with such loved ones should do if it happens today, May 22, 2024. Because it sounds like someone has a good chance of dying no matter what.
they asked me and others to leave the house when i called (active suicidality and psychosis). i told them we would not, that i was sitting next to him on the floor and two minors were in their rooms nearby. i hoped they would be less likely to do something stupid when they knew there were three other people here and one actively witnessing and close to him.
i think it ensured they were more thoughtful entering my home, and he was calmer when they entered because i remained.
fortunately, i had calmed him enough and taken the weapon that this was even a possibility. i suspect it doesn’t hurt that we’re white.
Honestly, everyone sucks in this situation…
- The parents pretty much ignored the warning signs of his illness, schizophrenia and bi-polarism, for far too long. It was revealed in the body cam footage that this incident actually started the night prior when their son showed up and forced his parents out of the apartment, probably being violent to them as well, and they had to sleep in their car.
I’ve seen this numerous times where the parents or family members know at heart the person needs to be committed, but for various reasons mostly due to finances or not wanting to stifle their freedom, they prolong the decision until its practically too late… and here’s how you know:
- The parents slept in their car over night hoping his “episode” would end and when it didn’t they were forced to escalate and called an out-patient mental health facility to get him to a hospital; if they were handling his care properly, he wouldn’t have been out. This reeks of them doing this “wait it out…” before and it worked, but not this time…
Out-patient mental health or rehabilitation nurses, etc are not equipped to handle a violent patient. In fact, their training is as was shown in the bodycam footage. The second a patient becomes violent or too much to handle, they are trained to call the police.
From a morbid perspective, Police at least have a union and pension clauses that help take care of their families if they die in the line of duty, but home nurses, hospice care workers, rehab nurses, mental rehab nurses, etc do not (besides the possible work life insurance)
- The only area where I think the father and out-patient made things worse was they weren’t able to properly communicate the level of violence to prepare the cops. They were asked multiple times if he had a weapon, if the apartment had weapons, if he had threatened anyone, etc and the answers were all “no, but sorta” vague like.
They were almost too afraid to admit how violent or a threat the individual was because they didn’t want him to be injured… but at this point its too late.
Yes, and finally… it was too late without someone getting hurt. The individual was barricaded in an apartment, had a knife, and was mentally unstable. The cops asked peacefully several times for him to come out, but he wouldn’t; there’s no world where this ended in someone not getting hurt.
- I think the police actually screwed up the most when they attempted to enter without the Ambulance being on-site. They had a ‘contained’ situation, the individual wasn’t going anywhere and didn’t want to leave, so let him be until the ambulance shows up. They said multiple times they would wait for RA, but in the end… they didn’t.
Everyone sucked… except Yong Yang
I mean, every criticism you level at the parents sounds like people worried that if they call police its going to go badly.
I have a severely autistic son. There is literally no circumstance where I would call the police for any event involving him. Unless there is a dead body on the floor, they are not getting a call.
I’m in a weird dichotomy where I need to be sure he knows to trust police in case somehow he’s alone and needs help one day, while at the same time realizing that if he gets to that point he’s probably fucked, and praying there is never, ever a time where he interacts with police without my wife or I between him and them. I can’t say “look for a fireman” or “look for an ambulance” because there isn’t always one of them around. But you never have to wait too long to see a cop.
Hopefully if that ever happens, he’ll stumble across one of the less trigger-happy ones.
I have a severely autistic son. There is literally no circumstance where I would call the police for any event involving him. Unless there is a dead body on the floor, they are not getting a call.
Here’s a hypothetical for you, if your son had an episode and took someone hostage with a knife, you wouldn’t call the police?
I will always advocate that a big area where police could improve their standing with the communities they serve is to always strive toward better, non-lethal handling of situations where the circumstances are appropriate; however, handling individuals with behavioral / mental disabilities isn’t simple…
Getting back to the hypothetical, you don’t you think you have a duty to protect that hostage’s life at all costs? You wouldn’t call the police until that hostage was dead on the floor?
Hypothetically, for your sake, your son’s, and that hostage… I hope you aren’t serious or would reconsider…
Here’s a hypothetical for you, if your son had an episode and took someone hostage with a knife, you wouldn’t call the police?
Sure, OK, you have found a corner case. Bravo, I guess? We can pretend I was using the modern definition of the word “literally.” 😉
It doesn’t change the overall point.
Here’s a hypothetical for you, which is far more likely than your own for an autistic kid. My son doesn’t even have the concept of holding someone hostage, and I venture to guess this is true for lots of others on the spectrum.
Let’s say he has a knife in his hand because that’s what he happened to have in his hand (somehow) when his fight or flight mechanism was triggered, and now he’s massively overstimulated, and in a meltdown. He’s not trying to hurt anyone (I’m not convinced he knows stabbing someone is an option a knife provides), but he’s waving it around because he is very active with his arms when he’s overstimulated, and he might even try to grapple with someone while holding it, again not really recognizing the potential for great harm. It’s going to be a real challenge to get it from him safely, and someone could get badly injured.
Do I call the cops in that circumstance? Not if I want to see him sans-bulletholes again. (Not a direct example of what I described, but close enough for these purposes.)
Edited to add - I read the story in OP, or I read about Linden Cameron, or I read about Elijah McClain (and others) and that’s my son there, or may as well be. Elijah McClain especially - heartbreaking. Nothing about any of those circumstances seems like an outcome I couldn’t imagine with any given group of police. I have no faith that more than a vanishingly small percentage would even see the problem with how these situations were handled, let alone try to do it differently.
Please, I hope you didn’t take my hypothetical as an attack, I think based on the emoji you understood my position.
As to your hypothetical, I do understand. I had a cousin that was autistic, probably mid-slightly high functioning, and he did not understand how to adjust his “strength” when putting hands on people while joking vs angry and it resulted in many situations where we had to separate him from the younger children that didn’t know how to guard themselves appropriately.
My point is that even in a controlled environment, its difficult to handle these situations and ultimately my experiences have informed me enough that despite how much I loved my cousin, I needed to think about the people around him first in certain circumstances.
My cousin is no longer living, he had a heart attack; however, despite his inability to control his strength, I did allow him to be around my kids, but never alone and never without me being on pins and needles the entire time. Its sad to say that, but ultimately I am just glad he and them got to interact. It brought joy to both of them equally, I’m sure.
But to answer my own hypothetical, I wouldn’t hesitate to call the cops if I knew my cousin had done something wrong even if he didn’t believe he had. At a certain point, I believe you have to put aside your concern for the unstable person and think more about the ones that could be potentially hurt.
Please, I hope you didn’t take my hypothetical as an attack
I kinda took it as a bit of a strawman, even if unintentional. That’s why I contrasted with a more reasonable one.
I appreciate that your intent is not to defend police regarding OP or in general. However, as I said elsewhere, are there actually other circumstances where I’d call police? Probably. My original statement was (slightly) hyperbolic.
However, is it MY fault that I need to do this calculus about whether the folks paid to help might kill my child instead? No, it’s not, and I won’t apologize for it.
Police have earned their reputation.
If I can’t count on them to help without killing me or people I love needlessly, I’m not going to call them. I would think anyone, even a cop, would understand this fundamental requirement.
My cousin is no longer living, he had a heart attack; however, despite his inability to control his strength, I did allow him to be around my kids, but never alone and never without me being on pins and needles the entire time. Its sad to say that, but ultimately I am just glad he and them got to interact. It brought joy to both of them equally, I’m sure.
I’m sorry for the sad ending to your story, but glad that there were opportunities for joy along the way. These situations are tough, I get it.
I will always advocate that a big area where police could improve their standing with the communities they serve is to always strive toward better, non-lethal handling of situations where the circumstances are appropriate; however, handling individuals with behavioral / mental disabilities isn’t simple…
Nearly every single time I have seen someone make this particular excuse for police, a nurse or other staff from a healthcare facility will crop up to point out that they do it all day every day without having to kill people.
true, but in inpatient settings they have tools at their disposal and a context supporting safety that you lack. they have - locked doors, lots of people who can be summoned, people trained to restrain, injectable medication. probably other stuff i’m not thinking about. there’s likely also an increased understanding of that person’s issues, level of risk, and current medication and sobriety. even several hours of observation plus a secure environment gives staffers an advantage police lack.
so i work in mental health. it is very likely that i will have to call police on a client at some point. i have training that works well in some circumstances, but there are limits. i have, in fact, been one of the people here on lemmy that has pointed out people working with others with mental illness and disability manage things without guns.
i think police need training to work with people like this and to de-escalate in general. i think i lot of them need treatment for their own PTSD. i think they fucked up here.
but i don’t think it’s realistic either to think that they can, in practice, handle things the same way a nurse with many years of experience and additional tools can. and i would also point out that many social workers (not my profession but related, just the last field i saw stats on) have been assaulted by their clients.
i think the parents could have handled it better. i think it’s possible cultural attitudes toward mental illness or other factors unique to the family played a part in their decision-making.
and as another parent of a person with developmental disability (plus serious mental illness), i think it is wise to prepare yourself and your child for how you might handle circumstances in which you or someone else needs to call for help. i don’t think it is safest for your child or for you (or others, obviously) for you to refuse to call until there is a body.
but i also understand that your experience and your child are not the same as mine.
i just wish the cops hadn’t fucked up, and i wish the family had done it differently. for all the good that does.
edit - extra words, a wrong word
i don’t think it is safest for your child or for you (or others, obviously) for you to refuse to call until there is a body.
Man a little hyperbole brings out all the haters. 🙂
i think police need training to work with people like this and to de-escalate in general. i think i lot of them need treatment for their own PTSD. i think they fucked up here.
but i don’t think it’s realistic either to think that they can, in practice, handle things the same way a nurse with many years of experience and additional tools can. and i would also point out that many social workers (not my profession but related, just the last field i saw stats on) have been assaulted by their clients.
All your points are reasonable. But I have to weigh all other factors against the likelihood that cops are going to show up and harm or kill my child unnecessarily.
Are there actually other circumstances where I’d call police? Probably. Is it MY fault that I need to do this calculus about whether the folks paid to help might kill my child instead? No, it’s not, and I won’t apologize for it.
no, you shouldn’t have to do that calculus. but i want your kid to be okay if it ever comes to that.
First of all, I’m not advocating for the police.
I clearly stated in my first post that the police did not handle the situation correctly because they did use lethal force and they did not wait for the ambulance when they said multiple times they would.
What I’m stating is that everyone involved had a part in passing the buck of responsibility to the next party until ultimately the end result was almost assuredly going to be bodily harm to Yong Yang.
What I’m stating is that everyone involved had a part in passing the buck of responsibility to the next party until ultimately the end result was almost assuredly going to be bodily harm to Yong Yang.
Fair, but I go back to my original comment. Possibly the parents would have behaved differently if they had any faith the police would have. As it turns out, the police didn’t, they did what every parent of a special needs child fears.
I’d try to be understanding with the parents, but I admit family waiting too long is a problem. I remember watching this video and getting frustrated at every missed opportunity…
You just have to fucking deal with it yourself basically, our social safety net is a bad joke. If you’re a minority, neurodivergent, queer, or anything else they decide they don’t like, you have a much hire likelihood of literally being murdered by the people who are supposed to help and protect society.
Also better not have a dog, cause they’ll kill Fido too.
Why we give such fearful brittle creatures firearms is beyond me.
Power and control. To protect and serve the ruling class interests.
Police protect and serve capital and capital only.
I have a family member who had a wellness check called in for her and the cops came in and immediately beat her ass. Don’t let these fuckers into your house. Ever.
Never call a wellness check on someone if you aren’t cool with them being killed.
Wellness checks are notorious for being lethal, it’s absurd.
I mean if you need help, you can always ask a neighbour for help. Would be useful if everyone had a mancatcher pole as well, as messed up as the implications of everyone in society having a mancatcher is.
I can’t speak for anyone else, and I am not in this situation myself, thankfully, but I wouldn’t know my neighbors well enough to ask them, sad as that is.
I’m in no better spot, but this is the crux of the problem, isn’t it - too many of us don’t have a strongly-enough bound local community to get assistance with stuff like this without involving the cops.
It sounds like what it is, Flying. Not a tasty pill to swallow but these are the dues of the division modern society has allowed.
No more Village raising the children. No more respected elders, trusted craft people, or neighborly bonds.
For the illusion of connection and its subsequent gamification and for the enrichment of those who say what we want to hear, these are the dues to be paid.
We live and die alone, bemoaning a loss of bonds that could be mended at any time; let he who is lonely lay their cynicism down first.
No, I don’t believe it’s that easy (and recognize the risks of being first) but it probably is that simple. No clue how the message is amplified back through time in a manner that gets enough likes though.
Such an insightful comment. /Gen
Sometimes, others share their opinions and lived-in experience not to give you insight, but because to speak is to human. Sonder on that, whatever your generation.
I am aware the oldest writing is of a merchant swindling. I am aware of the atrocities respected elders have carried out against the Village children, all villages.
I am not here to insight you; use your own faculties for that.
I am aware the oldest writing is of a merchant swindling.
You are an arrogant fool. Blah blah blah. BTW the oldest written text is probably the Code of Ur-Nammu. It’s not the Complaint tablet to Ea-nāṣir, as I assume you’re comment referred to.
I was being genuine. That’s what “/gen” means.
I am genuinely sorry I was genuinely a reactionary idiot earlier, but thank you for teaching me a new one!
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You’ve got to get really fucking friendly with the cops and you’ve just gotta hope. You want to take your child to the local precinct office and introduce them and their disability to officers in a calm setting and discuss how to deesclate situations… especially if you can talk clearly on certain trigger scenarios and double especially if your child can voice these things himself. Then you’ve got to hope they create a file on your child and hope they fucking remember this shit if your child goes off.
Written by the step parent to a child with bipolar disorder and autism - though we’re in Canada things are extremely similar wrt policing culture up here.
You want to take your child to the local precinct office and introduce them and their disability to officers in a calm setting
This might work in a smaller town, but this family was in LA. I’ve never lived there, but I have lived in NYC and I doubt anyone in the precinct would care. They would just file some paperwork and move on to the next thing. There’s probably less than a 50/50 shot that the paperwork would be communicated to any officer in a crisis. And back when I lived there in the stone age, that chance would have been zero.
Maybe if your precinct does community policing, it would be beneficial to introduce yourself to any officers you know are local, but that assignment can change on a whim.
Big cities are composed of smaller divisions covered by local precincts - there’s still luck involved here but you’re really misunderstanding how policing works.
Some places have mobile response teams for mental health issues. Florida has a few programs being piloted right now. They have direct numbers. So, the police are not necessarily involved in reported events.
And that’s great, but mentally ill people are everywhere, not just in the places in Florida with pilot programs. There are many ideas with how to deal with this problem in the future. Meanwhile, cops are killing mentally ill people today.
I’m not disagreeing. My comment was solution focused. Some areas have teams set up to help. Not everyone knows about them or even to look for them. So, I was providing information that might lead people to look around for programs that might help.
Got a problem?
Call the cops.
Now you’ve got two problems!
Something something, I’d rather be alone with a bear.
Devil’s advocate: or one less problem, eh.
Devil’s advocate’s advocate: Or they’ve multiplied…
The /s is the most important 2 characters in your reply.
I’m going to leave it up as my penance.
Epic
You’re right; the cops cured his bipolar disorder /s
Cured it like you’d cure a ham.
Just to be clear, the family didn’t call the police. The mobile response team did, which is typically done when there’s a weapon.
Ok, that’s fine. We’d need more details about what actually transpired and what the support team told the cops.
But it sure seems like in a situation where the support team calls them, it should be with the understanding that they’re there for backup, not to barge in and fire.
The police also tried to calm him down by whining about how “hard” their job is and tried to bitch about him “making a scene”. They really have zero empathy and probably aren’t even capable of understanding how the entire outcome was their fault. The definition of “why did you make me abuse you?”.
1: They want to hurt themselves or others.
2: They said how they’ll do it.
3: They said they’ll be doing it NOW or at a definitive time.
If these 3 things aren’t answered with any definitive answers, they’ll leave you alone.
You can say who you’ll kill, you can say how, but if you don’t say you plan to do it NOW or on May 23rd, you’re going to stay at home unless you have insurance and plan to go somewhere voluntarily.
=
Use this life hack to never have to deal with police and kill yourself if you want to as long as you’ve exhausted all real options. Pro-Choice all the way. Ain’t nobody but you gets a say on whether you want to live or not.
Set time? Set how? No person? No 51.15.
Don’t know when? Set how. Set kys. No 51.15
Say it’s tomorrow? Don’t know how. Say you’ll kys. Maybe 51.15, just don’t convince them differently.
E: Forgot the obvious. Don’t threaten anyone while you have a weapon in your possession. No, the police can no longer leave you alone. They are not allowed to just let you kill yourself without being sued into oblivion. Yes, if you threaten them with a weapon at close distance, they will kill you. No, it doesn’t matter if you’re mentally unwell, don’t threaten people with lethal weapons. Being unwell doesn’t give you carte blanche to PHYSICALLY threaten and/or hurt people.
(Warning, some graphic imagery)
I’m telling you, cops work. Anytime I had a problem and I called the cops, boom! Right away, I had a different problem.
AGAIN!
THE. POLICE. ARE. NOT. THERAPISTS.
Fuck these parents, you shouldn’t be parenting if you’ve fumbled it this badly. Dumbasses.
Disgusting victim blaming.
Disgusting retardation such as your comment and existence. You didn’t read the thing, I did and I came to my conclusion. Go fuck yourself, virtue signaling retard.
If defending the parents of a poor soul that was murdered by police is virtue signaling, so be it.
So you read the part where they did NOT call police, but for mental health help, and clinicians came but the police came too. And yet you blame the parents?
I think you have a problem.clinicians came but the police came too
The clinicians called the police.
Mods, whack his pp
Man I love when people show they need blocked right from the get go.
Thank you waste of breath, go apologize to a tree
Wow what a fucking temper tantrum. Impressive.
He was an adult not a child.
Emergency services should also include mental heath crisis teams.
They do!
Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance.
That’s even more tragic.
You’re just a truly awful person, aren’t you?
Eh? Is it really just normal over there to assume the police is this incompetent and are basically just hitman on call? Because this is not at all what I would expect when I call the cops. Blaming the parents, that’s just massive victim blaming…
The parents knew for years how bad things have gotten, wasn’t there a shred of a thought in their shallow brains that could’ve told them that if they called the cops that it’d escalate to this? No?
Well maybe, but I still don’t think you should assume of cops they react this way. They should have been trained in deescalation… Not shoot at the first sign of a threat. Also I think you should turn the blame around. The cops knew what they were called in for, so should have entered with more care.
I still don’t think you should assume of cops they react this way
If one threatens others with death or serious bodily harm, they should expect lethal force as a response. You are not the victim when you are threatening the lives of innocents.
Jesus no! You don’t deal with mental health patients this way! You should have started a dialogue and keep him occupied until he calms down and possibly comes out himself. And if he doesn’t you break down the door, step back and reevaluate the situation. Not just barge in and shoot him.
The cops “we need go shoot this guy before he harms and kills himself” probably
But the parents did not call the cops, they called the department of health mental health services who must have called the police for assistance.
The Parents Didn’t Call The Cops.
Read the gd article already.
I agree with your first statement, police are not therapists. They are not trained for this, they are basically a “sledge hammer” and everything is a “nail” per their training.
But, blambing the parents for calling for help should not be something that should be stigmatised in this way. Sure, maybe calling the police may not have been the best option, but the system is really failing us in general when people ask for help.
Calling a help line should really direct you to more appropriate service. Though this may not exist.
Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance.
The parents didn’t call the cops.
There’s no problem with someone equipped to handle violent situations being present.
The problem is if they unnecessarily escalate and get involved instead of standing by.
The solution is to dismantle the entire police system and rebuild from scratch with accountability and training.
We just need to vote for the Democrats one more time and they’ll finally do something about it right? That’s what all the funny memes here tell me. The democrats that are literally sponsored by police unions and advertise that fact endlessly.
Very interesting, this even more so highlights how the system is somewhat failing or overburden in a way.
Even calling for assistance or help down the right channels can lead you down some unwanted or unseen directions.
I suppose that this same reason is why homelessness is as big of a issue, people don’t ask for help because it usually ends up being more of a burden then the situation they may already be in.
I thought this was a repost from a while ago, but USA gonna USA.
Would be curious about stats on how many wellness calls end in the person being checked on dying.
Off the top of my head ~50 or less officers in the US die from violence every year if you exclude traffic fatalities. At least according to this (178 killed in 3 years) that means police are killing the people they’re called to help at a higher rate. Would seem to point to a person calling the police for help is in more danger than the police are on any random call.
I do that all the time. I go “oh there’s an update on this case, cool. Wait, these names aren’t familiar. Am I remembering wrong?” one google later “no this is a second time, and I also found a third and fourth that didn’t make their way to me.”
Classic US police.
If a blind man were to ask a police officer for help crossing the road, the cop would probably shoot all the drivers.
Who are you kidding? They would shoot the blind man because he would be approaching with a stick like weapon
I keep seeing a video come across my feed where this actually happens. The guy has a folding cane in his back pocket and he’s walking down the sidewalk. Cops roll up and start accusing him of carrying a weapon and that he can’t be blind if he’s not actively using his cane.
I hope this guy gets a payday for his illegal detainment, arrest and for the officers refusal to identify. Florida taxpayers will have to pay for it since the police have no accountability but at least those tax dollars will go to getting some justice. Fuck these cops. ACAB.
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Yeah, it’s complicated.
As someone who struggles with mental illness, but has been lucky enough to not need intervention or hospitalization in my life so far, this seems like another good time to say ACAB.
It’s never a bad time to say ACAB. Occasionally, one does something decent, but even a serial killer might occasionally hold the door open for somebody at the post office or whatever.
Every time I see a positive police story, I suspect copaganda. They are class traitors, restricting our liberties in order to protect capital, and it’s by design.
I’ve dealt with cops during bad mental health episodes. Honestly I’ve been extremely lucky - assuming ALL cops were bastards I’d 100% be dead right now.
ACAB
Please do not spread misinformation.
If you have a pit with a hundred snakes, and only two of them are aggressive and venomous, would you climb into that pit?
I sure as hell wouldn’t
It doesn’t matter if there are good cops, the few bad cops ruin all of them because it’s a dice roll who you get.
If you have 100 doctors and 2 of them are incompetent would you never go to hospital? Trusting any unknown person is a dice roll.
They aren’t literally saying anything about the marriage status of anyone’s parents. More that cops are all offensive or disagreeable persons
I’ve never heard of anyone intending the “B” to mean anything but “Bad”.
That’s funny, because I’ve never heard of anyone intending the B to mean “Bad”.
The usual expansion of it is “Bastards”.
I have always known B to be bastards
what the fuck
Everyone say it with me, FUCK THE POLICE!
Anyone that had lose someone to yhe police knows how hard it is to get “justice.” Especially if they are sheriffs.
It sounds like the family did the right thing. They did NOT call the police, they contacted LA’s mental health team, who sent a mobile response unit.
The issue with mobile crisis teams (which most cities have by now) is that they won’t do anything if there’s a weapon besides call the police. That’s where things went south.
There needs to be more collaboration between mental health response teams and police to prevent this sort of thing. Also, wtf is the point of carrying a taser if you pull out your gun on a dude who is barely moving and holding a knife? Probably didn’t even need to be tased.
No repercussions, so they shoot to kill
Less chance of liability. A lawyer friend of my parents said to never use a taser or pepper spray for self defense at a home. Just use a gun and empty it into center mass, anything else increases a chance of a lawsuit. Trying to shoot to injur vastly increases your chance of losing a suit, because they can argue if you had the time to do that you didn’t really think you were in danger.
Step 1) Find out the name of the cop who shot your son
Step 2) Call a mental health check on the cop
Step 1) Find out the name of the cop who shot your son
Step 2) Become a cop
Step 3) ???
Step 4) Enjoy a paid vacation
Bonus step) Call the cops over the previous cop’s mental health
/s
We had this happen in my town a couple weeks ago. Cop got called for a mental health check because a 19year old with a knife was acting erratic. Cop pulls up and gets out the car, the kid runs at him yelling “shoot me! Shoot me! Shoot me!” so the cop pulled out his gun and shot him. Didn’t go for the tazer or the his mace, just right to deadly force despite being called over specifically to prevent the kid from dying.
Cops should neve, under any circumstances, be called in for a mental episode. All they will do is escalate the situation and cause harm.
Cops should neve, under any circumstances, be called in for a mental episode
Yea I’m gonna have to disagree with you hard on this one. Just because you dislike police or have had bad experiences does not mean you should let someone having a crisis subject others around them to a very real possibility of imminent danger because “cops bad”.
Do police need more training? Sure. Do they need major reform in many areas? Of course. But are they all bad? No.
As someone who has been on the receiving end of one of these sorts of calls, please for the love of everything holy, shut the god damn fuck up. Truly you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Calling the cops in a situation like that is so incredibly dangerous and stupid and harmful, you should feel ashamed for defending it. Please rethink your beliefs.
Cops should never be called for mental health episodes
Ever
End of story
You are wrong
According to the report, the dude had already attacked a mental health worker with the knife. Yeah, it sucks that they were in a mental health crisis, but they were absolutely a threat to others.
The cops absolutely should have been there, but they should have only been there protecting the mental health workers instead of entering the premises and confronting him. .
According to the report, the dude had already attacked a mental health worker with the knife.
That’s interesting, because it’s not what the health worker said.
“He just tried to attack me and the father,” a clinician, whose face is blurred, says in the video as Min Yang, whose face is also blurred, walks into the conversation. “He became very aggressive. He tried to kick me. I walk away. He had some physical altercation.”
Also of note is that his father disputes that even that happened:
Min Yang added that he was standing between his son and a clinician and never witnessed any kicking or physical violence, only shouting.
Exactly how much training do you think someone needs to not unload a gun on someone within 10 seconds of seeing them? Somehow every other non-cop present managed to not use him for target practice.
The bastard in question is even a repeat offender:
Lopez had been involved in a 2021 nonfatal shooting of a man who had a replica firearm.
Cops are bastards because the non-bastards either get fired, harassed out, or murdered. Being nice to people while you turn a blind eye to the shit your coworkers do is still being a bastard.
The mere presence of a cop, even without a visible weapon, will escalate any situation regarding mentally unstable people. Period.
If you don’t understand why a person going through a crisis would freak out when a figure of (ultimately violent) power appears right after they picked a weapon you have a serious problem with basic empathy.
For the record, I haven’t had any bad experiences with cops, in fact every interaction I’ve had so far has been either neutral or actually pretty nice. I’ve had my fair share of breakdowns as a teenager tho, and I can assure you that a cop would’ve never helped a single time. Even the nicest one.
Look at the report for this case, for example:
The officers met with DMH personnel outside the residence who indicated that the DMH were called to the scene due to Yang’s erratic and threatening behavior. The officers were also advised that Yang did not live at the location, and had attempted to assault one of the DMH employees when they attempted to speak with him. Based on their assessment, DMH determined Yang was a danger to others.
In their efforts to assist DMH personnel, the officers requested additional units, a supervisor, and notified the Department’s Mental Evaluation Unit. Several attempts were made to communicate with Yang and encourage him to exit the residence; however, he refused. After formulating a plan and obtaining a key to the residence, the officers ascended a narrow staircase leading to the front door. The officers announced their presence and then utilized the key to open the front door. As they did so, Yang was observed standing in the living room several feet away, armed with a large kitchen knife. Moments later, Yang advanced toward the officers and an Officer Involved Shooting occurred.
Here’s the singular question:
What was the rush?
They needed to take him in, but they are afraid of him acting erratic and wielding a knife.
Why the fuck do they push to enter the building? There was no one in there. He could not hurt anyone while he remained hold up inside other than himself.
Why couldn’t they just wait him out?
By pushing to resolve the situation immediately and forcing their way in, they exasperated the situation.
I think they should have been called, but they should be there as backup in case someone is getting attacked. But no one was in danger here. There was no reason to push this.
One of my biggest complaints with police and why things escalate unnecessarily is because they are fucking impatient. They give “orders” and if you don’t comply immediately you are met with force.
They are insecure, poorly educated bullies. Everything makes sense once you realize this about police in the US.
In my town having gone and served in Afghanistan basically allowed you to become a cop once you returned states side. No degree or special training needed.
TBF, I’d rather a soldier show up at my door than a cop. At least soldiers are usually better trained in discipline, situational awareness, and appropriately evaluating threats. They are also trained on rules of engagement and usually aren’t terrified about every single engagement they find themselves in.
Maybe our police would be better if they received the same level of training as soldiers. And maybe that’s it. Soldiers are more confident in their abilities because they’ve received adequate training.
You missed the options of using “less lethal” force as well, why go for live ammo immediately?
Because when someone is rushing at you with a deadly weapon, you may only get one shot, and not all ‘less lethal’ options are effective, especially on someone in a mental health crisis.
I agree that the cops never should have entered the premises in the first place, but in this instance they did and the victim had already been a direct threat to others. This one instance really isn’t a case of cops murdering an innocent person for absolutely no reason.
That really depends on how you look at it. They did murder an innocent person exactly because they made the wrong decision to engage in the first place. You can’t put yourself in harms way when it isn’t necessary then blame the danger you knew about in advance.
My opinion would be different if there was someone else in the apartment for them to defend, but there wasn’t.
The cops made a bad call and now someone is dead.
1 good cop isn’t gonna stop the other 20 from shooting your family and pets.
The family didn’t call the cops in this case. They called a mental health crisis team, and they called the cops due to the presence of a weapon.
depends where in the world you are.
in the USA, yeah, no argument from me.
At the same time you can call social services and you end up with them being dead instead because someone having a psychotic episode slashed/shot them…
That sounds absurd. Please provide one example of that happening.
It’s absurd to think that never happens. It’s not absurd to think that doesn’t happen as often as cops killing someone.
I never claimed it never happened. It’s just not something I ever recall hearing of. I spent 20 years in the medical industry and a few of those in the mental health space. I’ve heard of a lot of violence on mental health professionals but the characterization that the people I replied to didn’t fit with my understanding. I haven’t made it through all the articles but I’m still not convinced it’s a thing that happens enough to consider it anything but rare.
Please provide one example
Kind of implies that you think it never happens…
It doesn’t happen because the social workers call the police, the paramedics call the police, the fire department calls the police…
The police are the catch all for emergency situations. “I don’t know what’s happening, send the police” is pretty standard practice.
https://people.com/teri-zenner-social-worker-murdered-widower-honors-memory-7557328
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/01/09/social-workers-field-safety-remains-concern-after-killing/
Yeah, social workers are never put in danger, right?
Cherry picking data does not a compelling argument make.
According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics in 2022 the total number of deaths for community and social services in the US was… 19. (That’s on page 8, in case you want to check.)
I found a CBS article from 2017 that cited another BLS study which said that social workers were the 20th most dangerous job category in the US, with a fatality rate of 1 per 100,000 people. That’s fewer deaths than architects and engineers, which was the 19th deadliest job.
On the other hand, American police have killed more than 1000 people every year for the past ten years. To put that another way, the police killed more people last year than social workers died of job-related causes in the past decade.
It’s really funny that by almost every metric you can think of, policing in the US is systemically flawed and needs major oversight.
You should compare the number per 100k for the people killed by the police if you want to make a comparison that makes sense
1000 out of 330 000 000, that’s 0.3 per 100k, looks like police officers are less deadly to the population than the population is to social workers!
Also very funny that you would accuse me of cherry picking data when only situations where officers kill people during mental health checks get reported on, right?
So you’re trying to normalize your ass-pulled estimate of the entire population of the US to compare it to the normalized full-time equivalent workers (which obviously isn’t the entire US population)? You can understand why using people who had no interactions with the police would be an inaccurate comparison, right?
My dude, until you get a better understanding of statistics I’m not going to engage with you further.
Ass pulled estimate of the US population… I mean, the number is easy to find my dude if you want to confirm it.
Not all social workers get in contact with people suffering a mental breakdown while armed either, how is that relevant to the situation then?
Interesting that all these are Canadian stories
Didn’t know Illinois is a Canadian province… Also I’m in Canada so not surprising that Google would provide Canadian results for the most part.
There are some police departments with salaried social workers and “community specialist” officers that are employed explicitly to deal with issues like this. The problem is that a change to law enforcement in this direction must come directly from each individual community and must be supported by those in charge of the local department.
Tale as old as time.
We shot the sad person, mental health crisis averted!
*jumping highfive over the sounds of grief *
The only way to stop a suicide with a gun, is a homicide with a gun.
