unless it’s previously posted clearly to see before I order, I’d just walk out and not pay, because that is otherwise called “fraud.”

Oh, so you mean people won’t order your food if they know what the real price is? Well… fuck you

This has been the case forever. Itemizing receipts for hotels is always a pain and at least my company’s expense tool has buttons for more than 7 different tax fields each night. It’s like filling out a whole spreadsheet it the nightly rate varies.

Unfortunately, govt is the cause of that, not the solution. Taxes are always separate since they vary by location and are defined by the local govt. but yes it’s also a problem when that local govt wants to join in on fleecing the tourists, and it’s by convention not part of the price

My tip heavily depends on how full my water glass is kept and how long my dishes sit in front of me before they’re cleared.

I don’t need chit chat or being flirted with, I just need my meal in a prompt and courteous manner, that’s worthy of 15-20% IMO.

Should I tip them for not spitting in my food or not stumbling and throwing it all over my clothes?

In the US, yes. Tipping here is insane.

I usually don’t tip, as I live in a country where people don’t depend on the tip. And if they got a problem with that, they can take it up with management. I am not their employer. Also, I don’t get extra money for simply doing my job as well.

But there are rare occasions, when I do. And that’s if I see that someone has gone unexpected “extra” lenghts, which can not usually be expected from doing the job.

For example, in an italian restaurant my partner and I ordered some noodle dishes. We were there often, so we didn’t expect anything unusual. However, that day, the waiter just brought us some Parmesan cheese with the advice it tastes better with it and we shouldn’t be shy to ask for it. That was very forthcoming and justified a tip.

On another occasion, when my partner had a hospital stay, we ordered some pizza. We did it once or twice, as the treatment took several weeks. Usually I went down to the building entrance and received the order. One day, there was an awesome delivery guy who took it up on himself to bring it to us to the patient room. We were very impressed. I remember that my partner said we should shower him in money, haha. We certainly gave him a nice tip.

If I go to a restaurant I expect them to take my order, bring me the food and when I’m done bring me the check. That’s it.

I’ve been to a Michelin Star restaurant where a pair of waiters were constantly hovering over your table to clean it and refill drinks and offer provide conversation.

The chef comes by and makes a presentation of every dish (the bananas foster was practically a magic act, the way they assembled the meal and then light it on fire). The staff practically wingman for you, if you’ve got a date. Everyone is beautiful and charming.

But that was something like $300/person just for the table, with 20% gratuity as a fixed fee on the final bill.

There are lots of restaurants that don’t charge through the nose for the meal but offer comparable service. Charming friendly waiters who weedle your favorite food and give excellent recommendations. Staff that sing or make clever jokes or entertain small children or share a cocktail with you at the table. I know a few high end restaurants in Houston that will try to pouch waiters from one another because they’re friends with particularly wealthy regulars.

You see less of that now (at least in the states) because individual waiters are expected to cover more tables, turnover is more important than relationship building, and the quality of food has taken a real nosedive as we replace professional chefs with meals made in microwaves.

Now a tip is much more like a Coperto - a cover charge for seating - than gratuity for exceptional service.

Good service is anything outside what you just said. Did you need to ask for any changes/ substitutions? Did you have an allergy they had to accommodate? Are you on a rush and they brought it out quickly for you? Are you splitting the bill? Are there children in your party? Did anyone leave a mess or did a drink spill? Were they extra helpful with recommendations? All these merit a tip. If they do exactly as you said and you were an easy customer, no tip needed (assuming you’re in a country where tipping isn’t customary)

Friendly, prompt with explanations for delays and either a remedy or some form of alleviation of the disappointment, good recommendations/feedback on food, etc. a big one for me personally is coming over only when you notice something is needed (drink low, people looking around, etc )

I’ll tip if someone does those kinds of things as it’s going above the basics I normally require

For me it usually about timeliness (I don’t know if that’s a word but it makes sense to me) and if our drinks a nearing empty they ask if we would like another rather than having to spend five mins trying to flag some one done.

Simply doing the job quickly and professionally which for me makes my meal a little bit better. Also this is much more achievable for the staff if the restaurant has enough staff.

I agree that these fees are bad and I hate them, but couldn’t you make the opposite argument that they serve as a (money) tax on the rich? Poor people will take the time to shop around for the best deal, whereas rich people will simply pay whatever for the product they want. Therefore hidden fees disproportionately are paid by the rich.

It’s called a Bait and Switch and is a form of Fraud.

It’s just that in the US, the grey area between Fraud and “Sharp business practice” is legally way broader than the rest of the Developed World.

Kudos to California to have forces some clarification on at least this one form of misrepresentation/false-advertising/fraud.

Yeah… Maybe it should be that way for resorts or hotels too??

Lol, what a weird take

That’s what pisses me off, if the consumer knows what they’ll actually have to pay they won’t buy.

They are arguing that they should be able to lie to the consumer and trick them. They think the consumer shouldn’t be informed to make a decision on what is right for them. And once again, they are putting the business before the customer.

What are the service charges that are being put on after the fact? From this I’m assuming it’s separate from the customary tip and any sales tax.

“Menu prices will rise!”

nothing a bunch of two-bit con artists MBAs hate more than an informed mark customer.

The actual good businesses run by good people will not suffer by this. only those that relied on duping their customers.

There are a lot of things I wished they did similar to other countries such as VAT. Hiding all these fees seems deceptive from both the business and the govt sneaking in their taxes.

Agreed, but overall a good move to address separate and much simpler issue of predatory pricing (for the customer)

Heading to mother’s day lunch right now, set menu for $89 per person. Except it’s a 10% surcharge on Sundays, the only day that mother’s day is, so that price isnt really true at all.

This in Aus which I’d normally argue has better common-sense policies such as requiring sales tax in the menu price

You don’t need to ban tipping. Several countries don’t have a tipping culture and that’s because the waiters are paid adequately for their work. Tipping is seen as a bonus after exceptionally good service.
The US should raise the minimum wage for restaurant workers and not make it the customer’s responsibility to make sure the waiter can pay their rent.

Not disagreeing, just providing a counterpoint.

Take your basic non super fancy restaurant, dinner for two with appetizers, entrees, desserts, a two rounds of drinks will probably be $100ish. And that table of two will be there for an hour. Assuming server gets 20% tip average, that’s $20 for the table. An average server will have four tables in their sections. That means if the restaurant is full, they are making $80 an hour in tips. They will get to keep 60% to 80% of that, the rest going in a tip pool that benefits kitchen staff, bussers, barbacks, etc. But they’ll still be making pretty good money.

Of course if the restaurant is empty or they only have one or two tables with people seated, they are making less.

The problem comes that if you get rid of this system, there’s a lot of financial risk for the restaurant owner. Currently they don’t have to pay the server or the staff very much, most of their compensation comes from tips, meaning there is less risk to them keeping the restaurant fully staffed if it’s not going to be busy. If you pay all these people are constant hourly, now there is risk on the restaurant owner in terms of staffing. Bring on too many staff when it’s quiet and they will lose a bundle. Don’t bring on enough staff when it’s busy and those people don’t have a financial incentive to bust their ass. It also becomes solely their job to ensure quality, because the server that spends half the time on their phone in the back room is making the same money as the server who is attentive to their tables. It also means less risk for hiring an inexperienced server, because if the server does a bad job they just won’t make good tips.

All that said, I agree something has to change. I think perhaps one answer would be a law requiring that each restaurant put 15% of gross receipts into a virtual tip pool. That way they aren’t paying through the nose to staff and empty restaurant, there would be a line item on the check like ‘automatic gratuity paid the staff $whatever on this check, further tipping is optional’.

Agreed. I hate tipping. Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money. More power to them but tipping is just a way for these businesses to keep their labor low. Many other countries don’t have tipping and can still have restaurants. For some reason the US needs tipping to be able to have restaurants.

I’m not a California resident but once on a visit I ate at a place. Paid the bill. No tip. Left. The shopkeeper chased me on the street to catch up and ask why I didn’t tip, and wasn’t the food good, etc. Embarrassed, I was with a friend who is a resident… I told her yes it was fine. “Then why no tip?!” Internally: Because it’s a tip? I didnt get some kind of exceptional service there. If anything they left us alone really. So what was I tipping for exactly? why not just charge a different price, etc. Externally: “Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t know”

Agreed, but let’s not let perfect be the enemy of good here.

A restaurant in my area recently put up signs saying they pay their staff a living wage, raised prices, and forbaid tips. More like this, please.

Definately how it should be, but staff at most places hate that idea. They know they’re making way over what they should be for the job, and they like not reporting all their earnings on taxes.

Servers are paid below minimum wage because they receive tips.

Not true in everywhere. For instance Washington requires servers be paid the full minimum wage of $16.28/hr before tips.

Work a Sunday brunch shift and watch the raft of churchies leave nothing but condescending notes, if anything.

Restaurants should be forced to pay their workers a living wage, which is how it works in developed countries. And paying below minimum wage should be illegal.

They might not live in the US. There’s plenty of countries where tipping exists but is actually optional.

Don’t take the downvotes too seriously. Your original point was succinct and poignant. On average, lemmy bombs on anyone going against the popular stance. A whole lot of paper activism goes on here.

Your point is valid. Not tipping because “fuck the man” only serves to hurt the servers. From a moral consumer standpoint, there’s no winning. You either cut out restaurants entirely, which still fucks the wait staff, or you tip high and hope enough of it ends up in the their pockets.

At that point just increase the price of menu items and pay people what their worth instead of lying about the final bill