I was expecting an adequate response, but this… I’ll just say I’m very disappointed.
Banning Israeli contributers too?
No, it’s not like Israel is attacking its neighbors. It doesn’t, does it?
It’s not about punishing Russia, is admit preventing vulnerability to a country that has an ongoing effort to compromise infosec.
Not at all saying Israel doesn’t suck balls right now.
a country that has an ongoing effort to compromise infosec.
Any confirmation, that these specific maintainers was compromising something?
They would never!
ALL of them? Not at once. Usually.
Unironically I would support it
I would never. The idea that any person should be disbarred from contributing to FOSS due to the actions of their government, is incredibly exclusionary. Linus is acting as much like a toddler as daddy USA is.
The funny thing is the Baltoids actually believe this will be good for Linux. They genuinely have no idea what they have done.
deleted by creator
Hm i never coded a line in my life, but i always wondered so honest question to the experts here: is it realistic that someone codes security back doors so hidden in other bad or wrong documented code, that nobody recognizes it in OSS community? I mean code is getting more complicated and specialized, dont you need more and more human resources (more than one person and hopefully not all with a bad intention) to check over that code? If im correct you shouldnt let more code into your software than the community is able to check an validate several times… Doesnt mean it has to be russians that need to be excluded idk
Yes, not only is it realistic, it has actually happened. It’s easier to write code than understand it. Even when reviewing code, you miss more or less obvious issues. Not to mention intentional vulnerabilities that can be sneaked in over multiple commits and time span long enough to make reviewers forget the larger context.
There will be a million security issues across all OSS. Some of it will be intentional; if so definitely don’t expect it to be a “findable” back door. It will be a set of vulnerabilities across several projects, that when combined allow the perpetrators privilege-escalations or a known path through a security system. Removing “Russians” from contribution doesn’t actually stop that, everyone can use a VPN and work as an American or whatever, but it does send a signal.
Interesting answers, thanks!
This might not be super useful if you don’t write code but I always found the contest submissions fun to read and try to figure out for the https://www.underhanded-c.org/ contest.
They break down and explain the runner up and finalist for each year and how the attack works. It’s usually something very subtle that most people wouldn’t catch.
The comments under the article are a special kind of braindead.
Yeah. Why is everyone saying this is removing their contribution credits? It’s just a list of active maintainers…
This is not an unusual comment section on Phoronix, to put it mildly.
That’s a fair point. I rarely read comments on news articles, but morbid curiosity overpowered my self-preservation instinct.
Always is with Phoronix comments.
You find everything there from “Gnome is satanist” all the way up to pro-genocide crap.
I really don’t know what it is about the site that brings out the craziest souch.
For half a second there, I was like “yeah, so glad Lemmy is more rational than that site”.
Few comments later, folks be talking about “Ukranian Nazis”…
Hahaha I saw the parent commentor of that chain notorious for getting into back and forth arguments, sometimes reasonable sometimes not, and I thought to myself, this is going to be fun. Then I recognized the username of that other .ml user as a known troll and I was like, yep now this is going to go way off the rails.
Hoo boy, you weren’t kidding. I find it amazing how quickly this went from “the kernel team is enforcing sanctions” to an an unfriendly abstract debate about the definition of liberalism. I shouldn’t, really, but I still am.
Lemmy.ml, it always is when it comes to simping for Russia
I don’t know what the hell is wrong with that instance.
Edgy tweens being edgy.
I just smoked weed and … smoked weed.
What in the reddit are these comments
are you a CIA bot or what? since when did people start ignoring facts and just repeat state department or fed propaganda? very strange.
🤣
Yeah, this Linux community should migrate to a less brain dead instance
You must have missed yesterday’s thread when news broke lol, .ml admins will be here shortly to teach us kremlin history.
Wholesome banderite chungus
I would wager that every country has far-right elements, including Russia.
What Russia claims though is that the Ukrainian government is full of Nazis, which I don’t think is true.
The wager isn’t whether countries have “far-right elements”. The wager is which country has a government that openly venerates a man who slaughtered Jews and Poles for sport. Maybe someday you will understand what happened here.
The absolute disregard of having any moderation is what does that. If there was any, there wouldn’t be the cases like having someone be there by their third account, after the first two got banned.
Not to mention that controversy = angry people and trolls = more clicks = more ad revenue. I don’t think Michael wants to miss out on it.
“Bcachefs sucks because I use ext4”
based.
Some old folk are reminded of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States
some context for the soyboys in the back would useful tbh
why the fuck are we using that word here? just read the article yourself, “auteur de war” sans nees
sir this is a a public fora, people speak as they wish?
better reasoning comment up:
https://thebrainbin.org/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/348217/Phoronix-Linus-Torvalds-Comments-On-The-Russian-Linux-Maintainers-Being/comment/3467412#entry-comment-3467412
The security issue is very likely scenario. If you’re in Russia, you can go to jail at any moment on totally bogus charges. It is very easy for FSB to pressure some random kernel maintainer into adding hard to detect backdoor into their code, it will be XZ situation all over again.
This actually makes common sense.
Freeze peach doesn’t mean you can call people "fag"s. By using that word you’re 1. insulting those who express their gender as they wish 2. calling us names
Also, my point is that there is precedent for laws to geopolitcally restrict open source. I agree that there is a real security issue.
Freeze peach doesn’t mean you can call people "fag"s. By using that word you’re 1. insulting those who express their gender as they wish 2. calling us names
wtf does this mean? i did not call anyone anything. what word?
I’m a soy boy
learn to read…
sir this is a public fora, people speak as they wish?
As you know, they do not.
clearly…
- don’t understand the prompt
- tell everybody you did not
- try to start drama
Oh, did I get whooshed by a meme? :(
I think you read it right which is the bad part based on down votes 👻
I was referring to the other guy not being able to read beyond usage “bad” word
Lolz. Please… continue. Don’t leave us all in the lurch to explain your crazy ideas to yourself. Share with the group!
I’m giving an example of sanctions applying to software.
No, you’re linking to a conspiracy theory in Wikipedia.
What? No: I am a graybeard, and I lived through those software embargoes.
How is this a conspiracy theory‽
I didn’t link to that!
So the decision stands and is okay’ed by Linus Torvalds.
Good! 👍
No, it’s not good, it’s blatantly russophobic.
I would get it if he would have simply stated that the Linux Foundation needs to abide by the sanctions, pretty much what GKH had said. But for Linus to go ahead with his stupid russophobic rant about Russian bot farms (LOL) is really too much.
I would get it if he would have simply stated that the Linux Foundation needs to abide by the sanctions
I mean, that’s basically what he said:
If you haven’t heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day.
Doesn’t sound like they banned Russians in general, just people employed by sanctioned companies.
Yeah, that despicable russophobia that makes us brain-washed russophobes hallucinate how Russia is invading neighbouring countries while committing war crimes, attacking other countries’ IT infrastructure, commiting sabotage and flooding social media with propaganda 24/7 for years… 🤡
- https://www.rt.com/russia/550493-ukraine-donbass-military-operation-prehistory/
- They aren’t committing war crimes at all. You may be referring to something Ukraine made up. For example their own air defense hit civilian apartments and they blamed it on Russia. There are also many many many videos and photos on telegram of Ukranian soldiers hiding in kindergartens and hospitals. They also park military vehicles near apartment blocks to the dismay of the people inside. There’s photo and video evidence of this.
Really it’s the reverse – Ukraine is committing war crimes. Shelling civilians is a war crime. Murdering people you think that are sympathetic to the Russian gov is a war crime.
- Ukraine’s?? They (the gov, which we installed and control) deserve it.
- No evidence for this at all. In fact, if you go back to the original Russiagate claim it was debunked by the CEO of Crowdstrike.
I never really understood that concept that questioning your own sanity is actually a good sign…
…but then I experienced Russian propaganda victims and their steadfast and unwavering believe that contrary to reality absolutely everyone except themselves is mislead and brain-washed by desinformation. 😄
Lemmy.ml checks out l
Scratched liberals abound. It takes very liyyl3 for them to be racist and chauvinist.
Yes. What does “liberals” mean exactly?
It means supporters of the dominant ideology if capitalism, just like it has always meant.
Not at all true. If you’re referencing US ideologies of Capitalism, holy shit are you wrong and read the wrong Wikipedia.
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism. Republicans are the pro-capitalist party in the sense they want to privatize everything and help their friends, and also “deregulate” anything and everything.
These are anti-capitalist ideas.
Come on back with some more Wiki links, good buddy.
Dubliette is referring to the thought-terminating cliché that every major US party doesn’t want to abolish capitalism (the economic system centered around capital, private ownership, etc.), ergo we’re all liberals.
thought-terminating cliché
There’s no argument, it’s the definition of the word. Why do you assume there should be argument around the normal usage of a word?
because for some reason, torvalds is bad now because he is a capitalist while nearly everyone is a capitalist. that’s the argument made.
Lolbye
A thought-terminating cliché (also known as a semantic stop-sign, a thought-stopper, bumper sticker logic, or cliché thinking) is a form of loaded language, often passing as folk wisdom, intended to end an argument and quell cognitive dissonance.[1][2] Its function is to stop an argument from proceeding further, ending the debate with a cliché rather than a point. Some such clichés are not inherently terminating. They only become so when used to intentionally dismiss dissent or justify fallacious logic.[3]
I dunno how you can terminate a thought that never began
Not at all true. If you’re referencing US ideologies of Capitalism, holy shit are you wrong and read the wrong Wikipedia.
I am quite correct, though I am referring to liberalism in the general internationa sense. This is what liberalism always has been. You must understand it as what it is and has done, not what it tells you it is meant to be. As Stafford Beer said, it makes no sense to think that the purpose of something is what it consistently fails to do. The liberalism of the enlightenment had in its right hand brutal, racist colonial exploitation and in its left a ruthless industrial revolution chaining the people to factories and removing them from all commond and property. It is a product of capitalism itself.
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism.
The Democrats are a capitalist party and always have been. They do not work against capitalism at all, they support it and protect it. There is really such thing as late-stage capitalism, it is just capitalism developing over time, retaining most of its qualities but taking on new angles. Buy if it does mean anything, it means neoliberalism wrought by financialization, and that is Democrats’ main political base. It’s their main thing, especially as an export.
Republicans are the pro-capitalist party in the sense they want to privatize everything and help their friends
Democrats also do this they just tell you it is efficiency and “public-private partnerships” and “a generous endowment to a public institution” (that they can now defund). The charter school movement is largely Democrats, for example. They simply have different factions on their chopping block, different groups to pander to.
These are anti-capitalist ideas.
What ideas are anti-capitalist? I didn’t see any.
Come on back with some more Wiki links, good buddy.
No thanks. Read the political philosophers of the enlightenment, colonialism, industrialization and proletarianizatikn, the liberal revolutions in Europe, and who emerged to identify themselves as anti-liberal once those revolutions established their ideologies as mainstream, namely monarchists, fascists, socialists, and anarchists. You cannot gain a political education through Wikipedia, it is a Cliffs Notes approach to social topics often written by often incorrect or heavily propagandized (or propagandist!) People, including literal Nazi apologists.
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism.
Bruh what world are you living in lmao. Obama reached to bankers uncaringly tanking the global economy by giving them money to do with as they wished (and, as always, they wished to give themselves a bonus).
Yes. What does “liberals” mean exactly?
I don’t think there’s any possibility of useful discussion of linux happening here so we may as well discuss that.
The tension between the various meanings of the word “liberal” is complex, and it very much depends on the context. Historically, liberalism referred to political philosophies that featured liberty — individual autonomy and freedom — as their central ideal. It was the idea that the state and other organizing powers should be generously permissive, allowing all to do as they please to the greatest extent deemed possible. Over time the word has sometimes come to instead be more closely associated with narrow kinds of liberty, such as the freedom of the ruling classes to exploit everyone else. In an American context over the course of the 20th century it came to have particular connotations of hypocrisy as reflected for example in the lyrics of that Phil Ochs song you’ve probably heard. These days it is sometimes even used as shorthand for what was previously called “neoliberalism.” Its meanings can range even further into the unorthodox. In this thread for example, its use is more likely to convey a message along the lines of “this affront to Glorious Mother Russia has made me all pissy.”
so are we okay with banning development time donated to foss because of nationality?
are these people found to support heinous shit or is this just wartime shenanigans?
Dude is Finnish, from his own mouth, it’s just normal racism against an aggressive imperial, like how people hate the us
finland has pretty bad, climate-change-exploitation-fucking-over-the-third-world dealings in my country, despite enforcing seemingly very good stuff inside their own borders so meh, id argue they aint close to the victims they make out to be. some would argue that as a consequence for having a strong socialist influence.
i have mixed feelings about them as a country, but i recognize there are plenty of good (and even well known good) people on there because of the aforementioned good stuff, linus included. for different but not that dissimilar reasons i think contemporary russian citizens should not be blanket banned from helping everyone out.
finland has pretty bad, climate-change-exploitation-fucking-over-the-third-world dealings in my country
Which country is that, and what dealings?
brazil, and they do some shady stuff in the amazon. mainly fuck you extrativism.
Can you find any links where one can read about this?
If Finland is wasting tax payer money to something shady, it should be brought to the local media.
heres one i found with a quick google.
this one is about southeast/northeast brazil, but the finnish are involved in aggressive extractivism in northwest brazil (amazon rainforest) too, and i think its even worse over there. you will dig up pretty horrible things if you do some research on it. about most of the western 1st world countries tbh.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Karelian_concentration_camps
As if Finish people had any moral ground here
yeah i aint putting my ass on the line for that country, thats for sure.
It’s “for any county” to me. Nationalism is a cancer
Sure nice of Russia to look after only the breeding stock. Seems some things never change.
“Have we become so fearful? Have we become so cowardly That we must extinguish a man because he carries the blood of a current enemy?”
- Picard, Star Trek TNG
deleted by creator
How does this prevent the Russians from accessing sensitive technology? Oh it doesn’t! It just excludes them from contributing to Linux, not from using it.
Accusing others from “arguing in bad faith” are we?
deleted by creator
Hey - an explanation. Who’da’thunk it?
Wow, some real clown behavior from Linus.
As a finn, I understand that there are probably legal reasons for doing this.
I just wish they would be transparent and share those reasons with us. The Linux kernel is certainly not the only free software project that is impacted, if this comes straight from EU/US sanctions. Maintainers of other projects have a lot of interest in what is happening.
Transparency is also important because if EU/US policy/sanctions are causing issues for free software projects, then that discussion needs to be public, so that there is a chance to amend the policies if necessary.
Politics should not be on FOSS development.
The F in FOSS stands for politics
FOSS is inherently political though, but I guess you mean country vs country politics moreso than ideological politics.
That is hardcore wishful thinking, the nature by which critical digital infrastructure is developed and maintained is of keen importance to political systems everywhere. This situation was inevitable with the ongoing escalation of war
That’s why the “should be” I guess, though that’s not to say there aren’t idiots (right in this thread too) actually shilling for this.
If current open source licenses still have flaws like this, we’re gonna need new ones.
deleted by creator
The legal reasons was because the Linux Foundation is based in the USA and the targeted devs worked for companies explicitly sanctioned by the USA. Linus said he knew and trusted the devs he was forced to delist.
The Linux Foundation needs to relocate to some stable neutral country like Switzerland.
Switzerland is controlled by the US
Suggest a country then
Everyone who disagrees with me is a paid russian troll of course. Nobody would oppose blacklisting people based on nothing but their nationality unless they were getting paid for it.
I guess it’s difficult to otherwise explain the position you have? It’s not like people face criminal charges in Russia just for speaking against it. It’s easy to see how the state would want to introduce backdoors to most western systems.
It’s extremely sad that a lot of good Russians get swooped in this. But even abroad their lives are in danger to fight the state.
I think you’re making up a world in your head. Who are these “lots” of “good” Russians who are abroad and whose lives are in realistically danger of state assassination? Not that it has never happened, but you’re blowing things out of proportion. Probably Russia does it at a scale roughly similar to the US.
Very nice link that not only does not have a list of names but also fairly explicitly explains that it is not talking about Americans killing Americans.
I am not going to spend more than 30 seconds on it but here is the first list of “lots” of Russians that are believed to have been assassinated by their own government.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_in_2022–2024
Despite your personal attacks, the trivially discoverable facts are not on your side.
I used Wikipedia since you apparently find it credible.
My favourite “suicide” of a notable Russian in the last couple of years was the one that had a suicide note signed by “illegible signature” ( what it actually said ). I guess the FSB did not totally understand the instructions.
Indeed A LOT of falling out of windows. Quite a bit of poisoning as well. These are the successful ones. How about that time they poisoned the entire Ukrainian peace team including the owner of the Chelsea Football Club?
I think you’re making up a world in your head.
My friend, they poisoned people in the UK with a fucking nerve agent. They are so brazen and open about people being killed for not doing that the Kremlin tells them.
They have purposely made a meme out of the “suspiciously fell from window” thing, because they want people to know exactly what happens and why.
they poisoned people in the UK with a fucking nerve agent.
Yes, they did. How often is that happening? Proportion.
We’re not talking about taking out former spies in foreign, sovereign nations you dolt. I used that as an example to show just how brazen and open they are about this stuff. Using such a dangerous method, on foreign soil, is basically unheard of.
If you actually want to talk about frequency, we should be looking at the defenestration cases…
This shit is happening so frequently that there are several wiki pages dedicated to listing them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_in_2022
Scroll down to “see also” for a long list of related articles about the Russian government assassinating citizens and low-level bureaucrats.
Assuming you actually give a shit
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.
In any case, the defenestrations I’ve heard of have been within Russia, not outside it.
Using such a dangerous method, on foreign soil, is basically unheard of.
Not unheard of. US drone strikes on US citizens is a no-less dangerous a method.
It’s almost as if the markdown on Lemmy changed the text of the link so it’s not valid.
And you couldn’t take the 3 second to fix it, and then actually learn something.
Well done.
You also seem confused about what we are even talking about. We are referring to software developers WITHIN RUSSIA. So the risk of defenestration is very real. Again, to repeat myself, I only brought up Russia using chemical warfare on foreign soil as an example to show how open and brazen they are.
I edited the original comment with a fixed link if you actually care
Nerve agents compared to drone strikes look humane and civilized.
Disagree. Chemical warfare is an entirely different beast.
I doubt if someone wants to introduce a backdoor, they would do that with a russian mailing address. People removed were open and transparent about their nationalities which means there is even less chance them being bad actors than some random guy pretending to be American.
Aren’t the removed commiters with direct access to the kernel? It’s not like it’s some rando that makes pull requests.
That’s true, as he said just use your brain, Russia is under sanctions he literally said that, so Russian troll is a actually very accuracy
“The imperial core is sanctioning Russia therefore you are a Russian troll.” Impeccable logic.
Is there a specific reason for this?
Compliance with sanctions from the US and EU IIRC
Sanctions apply on OS development?
I dont know ennough on the topic, does this ecen check out?
Yes they do. See the long-standing debate over the ban to export crypto algorithms to Iran.
As they said in the article, they are just listening to their lawyers. I would assume those lawyers are correct.
Ah, lawyers, the people renowned for always being honest and doing the right thing
Lawyers tend to be honest to the people they’re being paid by.
Lawyers will also usually advice the safer option. Even if your actions are legal, if its boarderline enough you have to defend your actions in court, its expensive and risky.
Lawyers will be honest or dishonest, just depending on what’s best for the person who is paying them. Their jobs are dependent on getting good outcomes for their clients, so they can most definitely be trusted if you are the one paying them.
Lawyer slander is so fucking stupid. Would you not want a lawyer on your side if it was your ass on the line? A lawyer’s job isn’t to judge wrong or right. It’s to convince a judge or jury of one’s innocence. A lawyer has to defend the morally fucked the same as they do the innocent. You can’t have one without the other.
I know this isn’t a criminal proceeding or anything of the sort but I sense that’s what the comment was referring to.
That’s a generic fuck you, I don’t need to explain myself.
Which does make me question their reasoning even more tbh
Nobody has stated any actual reason. Based on Linus’ comments, Russophobia is the likely answer.
Fuck Russia. Pretty good reason.
For what reason do all Russians deserve to be punished and excluded as pariahs?
We aren’t talking about “all Russians”. What thread are you watching?
Of course you are. This thread is about people getting kicked off the maintainer list for simply being Russian and y’all are bleating “good, fuck Russia”.
Yes. I am saying that the Russian people who were maintaining anything in the Linux kernel commits have a very real threat of not only being compromised to do ill, but also have their identity on the commit chain being taken over by state actors.
What in the hell are you arguing for here?
lmao what a load of crap.
But anyways thanks for contradicting yourself.
Being obediet dogs like germans during nazi regime.
Nearly all citizens are obedient to their countries. Why single out Russians?
Because Russia has invaded another country and is currently committing a genocide. Christ 🤦♀️
Russia is not committing a genocide. However, the US and Israel are have been invading Lebanon and Syria.
Do you support removing all Americans from the maintainer lost? Can I get a “Fuck America”?
Becuase russia and israel are causing seriouss issues currently.
Before you do america too… Decent part of america was not larping the war either. It is shameful what we did in middle east for israels benefit.
Hopefully never again but who are we kidding…
Before you do america too
Yes this is the obvious cognitive dissonance that arises from my question. The US has invaded and bombed countries, couped countries, plunged millions into poverty and death, consistently for decades. Buy I don’t see any if you saying, “Fuck America” and trying to kick all Americans out of your spaces.
The US is backing Israel’s genocide to the hilt righy now. It would not happen without American support that Israel depends on. And most European countries are backseat supporters if that agenda. Where is your bleating for villification of every person from all those countries?
Decent part of america was not larping the war either.
Which war? There have been so many US-bscked wars in recent years that I have no idea which one you would be referring to.
But I am confused about the qualifier. Who had said anything about larping? This is collective punishment and chauvinism against all Russians.
It is shameful what we did in middle east for israels benefit.
Can I get a “Fuck America”?
Hopefully never again but who are we kidding…
Not just never again, it is happening right now, under Dems, with support of their candidates that is part of the admin doing genocide. Every pro-Harris post on this site is a tacit endorsement. Should we ban them?
This is not collective punishment.
Of course it is. It is punishing all members of a nationality for the actions if their government.
I didn’t realize all Russians were in the Linux kernel maintainers file. Silly me.
A trivial bad faith reading. Think about it for a few seconds more: what qualified their removal?
Phobia, by definition, is uncontrollable, irrational, and lasting fear for something. In the current geopolitics situation I’d say that it’s not uncontrollable and very much not irrational. Fear, as a fellow Finn, might be a bit strong word, but it’s a definetly a concern.
When I first read that I thought that the response is a bit harsh, as Russian (and Soviet Union) individuals have traditionally been a big part of open source community and their achievements on computing are pretty significant, but when you dig a bit deeper on that, a majority of Soviet era things are actually built by Ukrainians in Kyiv (obviously Ukraine as a country wasn’t a thing back then).
Also, based on my very limited sight on the matter, Russians are not banned from contributing, but this is more of an statement that anyone working for the government in Russia can’t be a part of kernel development team. There’s of course legal reasons for that, very much including the trade bans against Russia, but also the moral part of it, which Linus seems to take a stand on.
Personally I’ve seen individuals at Russia to do quite amazing feats with both hardware and software, but as none of us are in a void without any external infcluence nor affect, I think that, while harsh, the “sanctions” (for a lack of better word) aren’t overshooting anything, but they’re instead leveling the playing field. Any Joe Anynymous could write a code which compromises the kernel as a whole, but should that Joe live in Russia, it might bring a government backed team which can hide their tracks on a quite a bit different level with their resources than any individual could ever even dream about.
So, while that decision might slow down some implementations and it might include some of the most capable of developers, the fear that one of them might corrupt the whole project isn’t unreasonable and, with ongoing sanctions in place (and legal requirements that follow) the core dev team might not even have a choice on this.
In current global environment we’re living in, I’d rather have a bit too careful management than one which doesn’t take things seriously enough. We already have Canonical and others to break stuff way too often, we don’t need malicious government to expand on that with nefarious purposes which could compromise a shit on of stuff on a very fundamental level if left unattended.
Fear, as a fellow Finn, might be a bit strong word, but it’s a definetly a concern.
I mean, if my country suffered through the Winter War, I’d consider that a very rational fear.
I’m sure Jews are pretty nervous around German hyper-nationalists too.
Phobia, by definition, is uncontrollable, irrational, and lasting fear for something. In the current geopolitics situation I’d say that it’s not uncontrollable and very much not irrational.
Russophobia is the fear or hatred of Russia or people from Russia. Etymology is not semantics, as anyone should already know.
When I first read that I thought that the response is a bit harsh, as Russian (and Soviet Union) individuals have traditionally been a big part of open source community and their achievements on computing are pretty significant, but when you dig a bit deeper on that, a majority of Soviet era things are actually built by Ukrainians in Kyiv (obviously Ukraine as a country wasn’t a thing back then).
This is simply false. Soviet contributions spanned a large array of ethnicitied and nationalities and Ukraine was a minority in their regard, as were all ethnicities and nationalities.
Though I don’t see why your point would matter. Is Russophobia only bad if Russians have made enough contributions to your field of interest?
Also, based on my very limited sight on the matter, Russians are not banned from contributing, but this is more of an statement that anyone working for the government in Russia can’t be a part of kernel development team.
To my knowledge, nothing at all has been said about working for the Russian government or: this issue. It I’d a blanket exclusion of all Russians from the maintainer list.
Personally I’ve seen individuals at Russia to do quite amazing feats with both hardware and software, but as none of us are in a void without any external infcluence nor affect, I think that, while harsh, the “sanctions” (for a lack of better word) aren’t overshooting anything, but they’re instead leveling the playing field.
Presumably you support much harsher sanctions against all Americans, Brits, Germans, French, and Israelis, then. Are you any of these things? Perhaps you should start advocating for sanctions on yourself.
Any Joe Anynymous could write a code which compromises the kernel as a whole, but should that Joe live in Russia, it might bring a government backed team which can hide their tracks on a quite a bit different level with their resources than any individual could ever even dream about.
That is in no way unique to Russia and we already have plenty of examples of US, Israeli, and other Western countries compromising systems and software. Do just a little bit of critical thinking.
Russophobia is the fear or hatred of Russia or people from Russia.
Ok, seems logical so far.
Linus is Finnish, maybe this is also a lesson: “Don’t brutalize random neighboring countries because in the future they might be in a position to fuck you in the ass.”?
I mean, the Winter War is kind of not a fond memory for them, though everybody loves some Sima Häyhä, one of the most righteous men of the 20th century.
Linus is Finnish, maybe this is also a lesson: “Don’t brutalize random neighboring countries because in the future they might be in a position to fuck you in the ass.”?
I will dispute your framing, but why does it justify collective punishment and hatred if all people from a country?
I mean, the Winter War is kind of not a fond memory for them, though everybody loves some Sima Häyhä, one of the most righteous men of the 20th century.
At the time of the Winter War, Finland had existed for about 20 years, same as the USSR. Both emerged out of the Russian Empire. The USSR sought land and space for military defense against its Northern flank near St Petersburg, which was vulnerable, as well as, ideally, ports to seal from water invasions. Finland rejected every attempt at land exchanges, which was of course their right, but the USSR also, correctly, predicted that Finland would facilitate the Nazi advance and that this land was necessary to repel their war. Faced with an existential threat, they invaded Finland and took much of the land they needed and the war unfolded there exactly as predicted, with Finland rapidly becoming Nazi collaborators and putting down most of its internal resistance. The Continuation War followed, of course. To this day, they teach false histories about this, via the usual government censorship and creation of school curricula.
Sima Häyhä was hated by many early on and received many personal death threats to his face. His rehabilitation in pop culture is more of a thing from the 70d and 80s. Finland collaborated with Nazis and built death camps and was subsequently liberated by the USSR. With fascist groups disbanded and banned and the USSR elevated to the status of primary protagonist of winning the war against the Nazis, those who had supported the previous fascist-friendly/just plain fascist government became pretty unpopular for some time.
This country attacked me. Should I allow their enemies to reach them through my territory? Sure.
“USSR correctly predicted this!”
The timeline is fuwky wucky in your argument mate
Ah yes, the famed “reluctant” Nazi collaborators that just had to help Nazis and build death camps to get revenge on the Russkies.
I wonder why all of these liberals here keep making excuses for Nazis and Nazi collaborators.
He just applied Russians’ favorite soviet era saying “those who is not with us is against us”
Who did that? And that is a cartoonish an embarrassing thing for you to say I’d a soviet saying, let alone a popular one.
All it takes is reading the article to see why it was done. You clearly did not do that and instead inserted your own agenda.
I did read the article and drew the conclusion I just stated. Feel free to offer your own take.
While he certainly wasn’t sensitive about how he said it, he did state is was sanctions related.
He was not clear on that at all. For all we know it could be an excuse among the several vague ones he gave or a reference to pressure from Feds.
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren’t troll farm accounts - the “various compliance requirements” are not just a US thing.
If you haven’t heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by “news”, I don’t mean Russian state-sponsored spam.The “various comoliance requirements” are unstated. Everything here is being left to a vague implication.
this comment is bait, do not interact
It’s actually just my analysis but okay
I mean fuck Russia, but if these people aint regime whores for Putin I don’t get the angle here…
If there is no security issue, this seems excessive.
Liberals love collective punishment and have been in a Russophobic bender for decades, with an uptick in recent years. They hate all Russians and repeat racist rhetoric from Ukrainian Nazis.
I mean, I hate most Russians, but only since they invaded Ukraine.
Russia whines endlessly about ancient wrongs against them, the Finns have a lot to remember about Russia too.
Presumably you also hate most Americans and Israelis, then.
Personally, I only hate those who take an active role in a major injustice and am merely frustrated with those who are passive, and I do so consistently across nationalities.
I think Palestinians have a right to be angry at Israelis, even to the point of potential violence.
Much in the same way I think Russians have long passed a historical threshold for which we should consider whether they are compatible with civilized society.
We gave them a shot after the USSR fell, they didn’t take the opportunity to clean up their act.
So now we’re going back to it, confrontation.
Only this time we’re not 2-3x stronger than them, we’re 10-20x. I like those odds.
I think Palestinians have a right to be angry at Israelis, even to the point of potential violence.
And yet, by and large, Palestinians, facing genocide, focus their fights on soldiers and military equipment while showing empathy towards those Israelis who aren’t actively expressing racism towards them.
But yes Palestinians do have every right to resist occupation and genocide through violence.
But this was not my question. It is whether you consiste tky believe in and apply the rhetoric you are using or whether you are, note likely, swept up in the current hate-on towards all Russians.
Much in the same way I think Russians have long passed a historical threshold for which we should consider whether they are compatible with civilized society.
This reads as very racist and draws on orientalist tropes. I assume you picked them up from the upsurge in fascistic rhetoric, including from Ukrainian Nazis whose rhetoric has been amplified and anonymized/filtered through mainstream repetitiom, and have not discovered this talking point de novo.
We gave them a shot after the USSR fell, they didn’t take the opportunity to clean up their act.
tf are you talking about. The fall of the USSR came with a mass expropriation if wealth and industry and social programs at the expense of tens of millions of lives. Attempts to join the imperial core were rebuffed, it was placed in permanent shock therapy territory and systematically excluded. They did exactly what Western interests wanted them to do. This is the Russia your ideology created.
So now we’re going back to it, confrontation.
There was never a pause in imperialist escalation.
Only this time we’re not 2-3x stronger than them, we’re 10-20x. I like those odds.
I see that rather than ask yourself whether you consistently apply your logic, you are here just revealing that you are a nationalist that truly does not care and is now excited for a world war.
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Ukranians aren’t nazisThe ones that are, are.
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Misinformation, hate speech against UAOnly love speech for Banderites, please.
lmao
It’s noon somewhere.
Better get Putin’s dick back in your mouth before your family has an “accident” out a balcony.
Get that homophobia out if here
I didn’t think that being murdered by Putin’s thugs is specifically Homophobic, but do let us know in the comments.
Like and Subscribe.
It seems pretty clear that the negative implication is putin’s regime abusing his authority for sexual favors (especially given all the mass rapes by russian forces in ukraine…) and not that said favors are bad because theyre gay. It’s telling that they assumed it was based in homophobia, though.
There was no homophobia there, you tool.
You’d think that you would be pro-homophobia though, considering that gay people are often suppressed and disappeared in Russia.
Of course there was and it is why their comment was removed.
Hmm yes, we all remember when noted liberal Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest geopolitical threat facing the US.
Mitt Romney is a liberal, yes.
LiBruLz!!1
Stop applying right wing US politics nonsense to other countries.
And fuck off with the “Ukraine are Nazis” nonsense, gimboid.
Liberalism is primarily an international term. You are very confused if you think it is just about US “left” politics.
And I said that there are Ukrainian Nazis whose racism is repeated by liberals. This is a simple fact.
I’m well aware that liberalism is an international term.
However, it is used very differently in the US to everywhere else. In the US, liberal is used to pretty much mean “left wing” or “relating to the Democrat party”.
People in the US wouldn’t describe an expansion in gun rights as something the libs would want, for example.
And I said fuck off with your Ukraine Nazi bullshit. Stop parroting Russian propaganda, gimboid.
I’m well aware that liberalism is an international term.
Yet you assumed I made a US-specific reference when I did in no way do so.
However, it is used very differently in the US to everywhere else. In the US, liberal is used to pretty much mean “left wing” or “relating to the Democrat party”.
Yes I know. I was not using it in that sense.
And I said fuck off with your Ukraine Nazi bullshit. Stop parroting Russian propaganda, gimboid.
It is not bullshit. There are and have been Ukrainian Mazis and liberals falling over themselves to repeat their racist and chauvinist talking points.
When he says “Liberals love collective punishment…” he is not saying left wing, he is saying loudly right wing.
Ukrainian Nazis
this propaganda is no longer any good bro… 2014-22, it was decent engagement slop for the westoid but it don’t work. why are y’all still using it?
Because liberals repeated and repeat the talking points of Ukrainian Nazis.
You seem to be under the midapprheen that they either didn’t exist or went away. That would be incorrect.
Thank you for your input John from Ohio oblast. 100 rublei will be transfered to your account.
Tragically unfunny deflection
The security issue is very likely scenario. If you’re in Russia, you can go to jail at any moment on totally bogus charges. It is very easy for FSB to pressure some random kernel maintainer into adding hard to detect backdoor into their code, it will be XZ situation all over again.
thank you… now this makes sense.
so presumably this applied to Russians nationals living within Russia.
this if a fair point.
Yes, the sanctions against Russia, as mentioned by Linus. The change also said the maintainers “can come back in the future if sufficient documentation is provided”.
My guess is that the Linux Foundation must ensure that none of the people they work with are in any way associated with any organisation, person or activity on the sanctions list. And that they preemptively removed all maintainers that might risk violating the sanctions while they work with them to establish whether they might be covered by the sanctions or not.
Regardless of what you or they think of the sanctions, they are the law, and I don’t think anyone wants the Linux Foundation to have to spend their money on lawyers and fines because they had a maintainer who also worked on a research project funded by a sanctioned entity. (If that is how it works, IANAL)
Underrated comment.
OK, that’s the first reasonable explanation I’ve come across. I wish
GregLinus didn’t reply in that kind of “angry” tone, because for some of us it’s not that obvious.Yeah, it seems like they genuinely are just trying to be compliant with the law. I do think the “anyone who has concerns about this is a Russian troll” thing is obnoxious though, knowing of the existence of sanctions doesn’t mean we’re all lawyers who know the requirements here for open source projects.
The massive negative outcry over this fairly uninteresting change certainly seems oddly overblown, almost as if there are parties trying to turn it into a big political issue to paint Russia as a victim. But idk, nerds freak out over stuff all the time completely on their own.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I think the Linux Foundation has a hard time being clear on the matter because it just isn’t clear. These are new laws and a global open source cooperation run by a non-profit is likely a corner case that the lawmakers did not think about at all when making them.
almost as if there are parties trying to turn it into a big political issue to paint Russia as a victim
Idk, there’s probably some of that but until today with the clarification that the bans are happening from a list of employers they’re required not to work with, things were pretty unclear and I don’t think it was unreasonable to assume they were going beyond what was required…especially with Linus’ response being pretty tone deaf given the information critics had. People were angry what seemed like random Russian citizens were being targeted and Linus responded angrily as if we all already knew their employers were on a list despite it not being reported yet.
It’s not a huge deal but Linus is just not very good at handling this kind of thing. Nerds should have assumed there was more behind the scenes and given the benefit of the doubt, though.
Finland is experiencing suspicious acts of sabotage and disruption and believes Russia is engaged in broad-ranging influence operations against it and other European countries
Since Linus is Finnish, this literally hits home for him, hence (probably) his reaction.
Yes, but this action sounds as effective against Russian espionage as burning any clothes that has red blue and white in them.
