Maybe if they stopped putting a CPU in every car they wouldn’t cost so much and have less problems. Can I get roll down windows and a bare bones car for $15k new ? Make it modular or easily repairable or something so ppl can keep replacing parts on it and it can last indefinitely or something??
Hopefully it’s a temporary blip from EV incentives going away. We needed those incentives to smooth out the transition while EVs are still expensive, but with them being cancelled anyone on the fence had to consider buying in september.
Now we’ll transition slower and more painfully. We’ll continue pushing climate change, to our own detriment. Legacy manufacturers are already pulling back from EVs to maximize short term profit at the cost of viability on the global market. More people will be stuck for decades with obsolete technology and higher operating cost. We always seem to like doing things the hard way
It’s been 15 years, when exactly will EVs be cheaper? And why isn’t it yet? I hear from the tankies that it’s cause america won’t let us buy cheap Chinese EVs. If that isn’t why I don’t get it. We went from blackberries to batteries that can run a computer faster than a desktop of the era for multiple days, but we can’t sort out EVs? The core enabling technology (the transistors) aren’t even that expensive. The obvious answer is capitalism but which part?
We could be there now. Arguably we started being there.
I’d argue the technology is ready for EVs to be cheaper and we just need to scale. As long as legacy manufacturers focus on legacy technologies and EVs are an afterthought, we’re not getting anywhere. Too many companies want to copy Tesla’s approach: produce a compelling high end product and use that to fund a more mass produced product. It worked for them and now they’re cheaper than ever, but Tesla does not produce a full range of vehicles. It seems to be working for Rivian as well: we’ll see as their midrange products roll out. Even Lucid seems to be successfully following that model. But legacy manufacturers struggled to create a flagship model that was actually compelling. And teslas business model can’t work for everyone. And their strategy has always been a full range of vehicles, but where are they?
The car market has overall gotten more expensive than any of us want to admit, but the Chevy bolt is cheaper than any traditional Subaru. Hyundais/Kia has some great EVs that many people can afford. Chevy equinox EV may be in the sweet spot, if only it were a compelling vehicle. Non-US manufacturers seem to have compelling lower cost EVs that somehow never make it to the US, and I’m not just talking China.
As long as legacy manufacturers like GM prefer to focus on their $80k 9,300 lb monstrosities their choice is keeping EV prices high. But the Equinox and Bolt proves they can make EVs in the same price range as their legacy technology vehicles. And the only problem, the only reason they claim a loss on each one is that they haven’t sold enough to make back development costs in their short time frame. That’s not going to change until it’s a serious effort. Not going to change as long as it’s a second thought, compliance vehicle, because they’re forced to.
This is why the incentives were so important. It’s not just to speed up the transition but to establish a stable and rapidly growing market to sell such vehicles, so they more quickly reach the scale to support lower prices and higher profitability
I get what you are saying. But we live in a society without a lot of alternatives. No walking neighborhoods. No or little public transportation. Some people don’t have options if they have to leave their house.
There’s a big diff between I need a car and I need a car that makes the median reach 50k
Edit: average, for some reason I assumed editors aren’t huge assholes
I don’t understand how people keep buying new cars when shitty ones are $50k. Even these $100k SUV’s are poorly built and tons of issues.
People are so stupid now, they prefer comfort and ease over using their damn heads and not buying crap.
Land Rovers. Why.
Big c small d
They’re not. Lots are full of old inventory. One superstore near me has “new” 2023 model year units in the lot. Still above MSRP.
Hope they stay that way and they go bankrupt. The whole dealership idea is a scam.
But Trump said only beef was expensive anymore, did he lie to me?
I say this with all my heart. /c/fuckcars.
Inflation: how does it work?
Not only that, there’s just so many huge vehicles full of tech. Not enough people want basic simple transportation anymore, or at least there aren’t enough models to choose from.
Isn’t BYD a fraction of this cost, but we’re propping up stakeholder bonuses in Detroit?
This is such a tired argument. Literally the only remaining US automakers are GM, Ford, and Tesla. A vast majority of car sales in the US are foreign brands not domestic. BYD is being propped up just the same as what you’re claiming here, which is why no other automaker in the world outside of China is able to beat these Chinese prices, so how is this alternative better for anyone?
China is doing this in order to dominate the market wherever they’re allowed to enter, and are well equipped to undercut those local markets for as long as it takes to put everyone else out of business. They control a majority of the minerals needed for EVs so they get to set the external and internal price. They have lax safety and environmental regulations. They already control much of the world’s manufacturing capacity. They’re a massive country with a massive workforce.
Allowing them to dominate the world auto market in order to buy one or two cheap new cars (before prices shoot back up because monopoly) is going to be bad for everyone.
Picking up our bat and ball and stomping off home is a worse alternative. At school next week everyone will be talking about the great game that we completely missed from our own stubborn pride.
Allowing Chinese companies to dominate the world auto market so our legacy manufacturers can eke a few more years profit from obsolete technology isn’t going to help anyone. After those couple years, our legacy companies will be that much farther behind, unable to compete in a market dominated by those who were not afraid to compete
Its not “picking up our bat and ball and stomping off,” it’s recognizing that this new “team” is full of ringers who take no issue with cheating to win, who will pay referees to give them favorable calls, and who will only put on a good show for the crowd for as long as it takes to secure 1st place. This team also happens to control the supply of bats and balls and ensures that they get the best of the best at no cost while other teams are getting second rate bats and balls at sky-high prices. Those people talking about “how great the game was” don’t see or understand any of this, so their opinions should be disregarded. They didn’t witness a real competition, they witnessed something akin to a Harlem Globe Trotters or a WWE match.
You’re still framing this as if it’s about protecting our companies, but this is protecting our market, our jobs, and our agency as a nation. US companies only make up a small part of all this.
Furthermore, if you look at the situation in China with EVs, they have entire graveyards of practically new EVs rotting away because they’re turning the automotive market into yet another segment of cheap, disposable products, which is not only terrible for consumers but also for the environment.
Are you really that desperate to buy a brand new car every year like its the latest iPhone that you’d upend the entire world market and put millions and millions of people out of work not just in the US but in the rest of Asia, Europe, Canada, and Mexico? Do you really think they’ll continue the massive subsidies driving their prices so low once all the competition is gone? To get a little conspiratorial, with the design of modern EVs being entirely software controlled with wireless links back to the “mothership”, are you willing to hand over control of the nations’ entire fleet of vehicles to a single government entity that has demonstrated time and time again that they’re willing to use whatever force necessary to maintain complete control and keep everyone in line?
Yup. Once they drive everyone else out of business, the only affordable car will be from them, and they’ll have you by the balls.
More governments need to enact tariffs on imports like these in order to prevent that. Subsidizing and dumping products is terrible for the global population, and it happens by and in many, many countries around the world.
Respectfully, protectionism isn’t that much better. In terms of economic velocity (efficient use of money/value/resources), it would be better if we used the money in other industries.
- “The Chinese are competitive.” Yup, they are beating the global
- ”They own the materials.” Yup, good planning on their part
- ”They have lax safety.” Nope.
- ”Massive country & workforce.” And a bunch of Chinese manufacturing has reduced humans and/or are dark with no humans.
“Allowing them to sell superior products is bad.” Sure, for the stakeholders. Not for Americans. I’m already being screwed by capitalists all over the place. Let’s expedite capitalism’s demise, please.
I think they mean lax labor safety. It’s much cheaper to make things if you don’t worry about your workers getting killed or injured at higher rates.
You don’t seem to be accounting for the strategic value of the car industry, which is what the person above was talking about.
If people who can’t afford them stopped paying for new cars and just bought cars they can afford and everyone agreed to never pay dealer markups, car companies wouldn’t be so brazenly pushing prices higher.
Pricing ppl out of vehicles can only be good for the environment, right?
Keep the pedal pressed all the way down ya oligarch buffoons😂Good way to reduce peoples mobility as well. Can’t have them “voting with their feet” now.
WTYP had a great episode on the end of the small American car, with the failure of the Ford Pinto.
The American auto industry basically doesn’t make small cars anymore. So much of the modern car price is just the volume of car you’re required to purchase.
Honestly, whatever.
Americans make shit cars anyways.
And American car/vehicle manufacturers are crying over low sales.
Stupid
Crying over fewer high margin sales. They want the same number of sales but with more profit.
I was going to make a comment about cheap Chinese cars, but then I checked the BYD price list, and the Dolphin is the only car they’re offering for less than $50k. The rest are a pretty even distribution between 50 and 100k pre-add-on fees and taxes and trims.
BYD tends to be higher end (although the Seagull comes in around $11k). If you want a cheaper compact, try a Geely Xing Yuan or Chery Arrizo ($8k-13k range). For a sportier economy car, there’s the Xiaomi SU7 ($30k).
The big catches with these cars is that they’re far smaller than their American equivalents.
The bigger catches with most of the smaller cars is that they wouldn’t pass an NHTSA inspection. Of course, if big cars didn’t exist, they might — but there’s lots of commercial vehicles on the toads that aren’t SUVs or pickup trucks that still might collide with a lightweight vehicle.
I like small cars anyways. America has an auto obesity crisis. Older small cars have a charm that bloated crossovers don’t
Adjusted for inflation, or better yet something like median salary, would probably be more meaningful.
Seems this will preferentially screw folks in low cost of living areas. If you’re in a HCOL/VHCOL area and making ends meet, then a new car is probably affordable. If you’re making ends meet in a LCOL area, then this is likely a huge expense.
It seems like automakers would much rather sell fewer premium and luxury units at higher margins than sell more units of affordable cars at lower margins. I suppose I understand why, but it does leave a large consumer segment unserved. That seems like a good opportunity for a competitor to come in and serve the unserved market, but none of the big legacy car brands seem interested and new car companies don’t have access to the capital it would take to build the manufacturing capacity necessary to mass produce affordable vehicles.
Sounds like a great opportunity for foreign car companies, from, say, China, for instance, to come in and serve that under served lower end of the market. But then, tariffs.
There’s still lots of money to be made in the used car market. Make new cars expensive, then more people will lease. Then you have a constant stream of income and you can raise the prices on your used leased cars.
Used cars are also entering a bubble.
Abused, falling apart, shit boxes are selling for what a decent used car was 5 years ago, and decent used cars are the price of a new car 5 years ago, yet basically no one is earning enough to afford the difference.
More auto loans are underwater than ever before, and a lot of them are for used cars. Eventually something’s gonna have to give.
There’s a reason that Obama pushed so hard to bail out the auto industry during the financial crisis. If the car market fails, it means less able bodied Americans will be able to get to their jobs due to how our entire country is structured. If the Auto industry fails, America will slowly grind to a halt.
This is coming before Christmas next year. Many researchers say the auto loan industry right now is worse than both the 2000 and 2008 crashes. So the trump 2026 crash could destroy the entire country if millions of loans are defaulted and the government is broke.
Capitalism serves capital, not the needs of the people. And the free market of competition is just a convenient myth to distract people with.
Ebikes will serve that market. Thant and expanded transit in some cities
And what about those of us for whom neither would be practical in their commute? I mean, e-bikes are great - I own one - but it’s for pleasure, not doing my commute when there’s no infra for it, nevermind the weather. And yeah, no practical public transit exists either.
I’m in the market for a car too, I’ll probably end up with some shitbox.
nevermind the weather
Literally yes nevermind the weather because the weather doesn’t stop biking lol
Winters here do make it quite onerous. Like when it’s dark at 4pm, the temps are in the single digits (F), driving snow limits visibility – and you’re sharing a road with drivers who don’t expect you to be there, and also which has been narrowed by snowbanks – it can become a death wish. Yes, you could still do it, but the amount of gear and chutzpah involved just trying not to die is not for the faint of heart. Frostbite is the best case scenario, and no one will care that you died because they’ll just say you shouldn’t have been doing it, no reasonable person would, etc.
amount of gear
Oh no, the horrors of single digits temperatures. The horror of putting on a coat and a warm pair of pants! That’s so much gear.
Frostbite is the best case scenario
With basic preparation, frost bite is not a risk.
Weather is not a concern, reckless and incompetent drivers are the concern
We need to step.up building good transit
Large margins and small supply are a lot easier to deal with though, and mass production is very expensive to set up.
Honestly we need regulation in this space. Incentivize building a cheap car so the manufacturers will do it.
Honestly the gov is in a good place to do this. Spec out a vehicle and place an order for a could hundred thousand of the them for general purpose government worker transportation needs. Set a low cost target. Let them build it for normal people too.
As someone who just bought car last year, I think Kia is the closest one serving that market. We made a list of potential cars that had what we wanted. It had to be under $35k and it had to have certain features without needing to subscribe to some service. We added a few Kiad to our list and I’ll admit they were quite tempting as they had everything we wanted for less than all the other cars on our list. In the end we ended up getting a Prius, but the Kias were pretty close for us.
Subaru seems to give the customer a fair shake as well - I haven’t had issues with my vehicle or their supply chain, and checking their current prices they do have entry level (albeit a bit higher than the old floor) pricing.
I used to love Subarus, but they lost me on the condescending fake shift points on their newer CVTs.
Ah, I have a late 2010s model, wonder if that’s a new initiative.
Yes, it’s new. My 2016 is fine and my ex’s 2025 is annoying, but I don’t know what year in that range it started. It should be a small thing. I shouldn’t care. But wtf, do you think so little of our intelligence that programming an artificially worse experience will make us like them more?
10ish years ago it was a conscious choice they made, the automakers.
Now?
They are trapped, they can only continue to exist if they have the margins from luxury car prices for basically standard cars.
The other thing that goes along with this is… horrendously shoddy construction and design, they’re literally built to break down, intentionally.
They’re not really automakers.
They’re managers of very troubled tranches of debt obligations who happen to be in charge of auto plants.
We should have let them all die back in 09, but instead we bailed them out and their management became a punch of sycophantic ‘dont rock the boat, we’re experts’ accountants, just like what happened Boeing after McDonnel Douglass bought them out, ousted their middle and upper managers, and wore the Boeing brand name like a skin suit.
They are completely incompetent, but even if they weren’t, nobody could solve the mess they are in now after decades of coddling and kickbacks from the government, collusion with regulators… rotted them from the inside out, smothered themselves, not really caring because C suite gets golden parachutes no matter what happens.
Your last sentence underscores one of my main frustrations with this system of corporate enshittification. No matter what happens, there is no such thing as real life consequences for the c suite. They do as they please and retire comfortably without a care in the world.
And the inescapable logic there means that unless people put their own credible threat of violence on the table, nothing will continue to ever change.
You don’t play a rigged poker game, you play the uh, meta-game, around and above it, otherwise, you always lose.
Capitalism does violence via complex bureaucracy, via obscuring and normalizing the system itself, by making it very complicated to try to draw some kind of moral line as to where responsibility for the acts of which actors in a system should lie.
The reality is that the system itself is violence, and that you are guilty to the degree that you partake in and profit from it.
This is why Luigi Mangione is pretty much seen as the modern day Robin Hood.
“It’s because of those EVs” says man driving $70,000 pickup as his daily driver
A new RWD base Model 3 is 36,990
It’s really because of tariffs.
China has EVs with 300km range that only cost $15,000. Can’t buy them in the US, though.
Gotta give the Musks your money, instead.
Cheapest BYD in Finland is an used 2023 model with 50k kilometers and costs 28k USD.
In Australia, that model costs $28k USD brand new!
https://evdealergroup-byd.com.au/configurator/byd-atto-3?postcode=2071&store=380&state=NSW
There are tariffs on Chinese EVs in the EU as well.
I’m not trying to detract from your point because we could do this here as well but BYD cars are not $15k outside if china even where you can but them. They are that cheap because the government incentives them to be so.
And inhumane labor practices and cheap wages.
Hyundai’s EVs are so much better than tesla’s
Unironically, to a degree. 40 years ago, you could buy an economy car from an American dealer that got 70 mpg. Now you can buy a car twice the size with an enormous block of lithium as its fuel tank.
What model? Best normal USDM car I can think of was the Civic/CRX which hit the 40s. I rented a 2025 civic and got 49mpg (NOT a hybrid), so we’re back to that, at least. Geo Metro was rated for the 50s and hypermilers did better, but keep in mind the EPA ratings took a nosedive with more accurate testing around 2005
My brother had an old Plymouth Horizon that made it to the mid-40s mpg, and there were only one or two cars better.
…. And it was made with aluminum foil. You didn’t want to be in an accident with those
I’m with you, best I know is 88 Jetta diesel at 48mpg (@40 years old)
Yeah that was my first thought. How much is this influenced by 7 or 8 year loans on $70,000 trucks?
