• Blackout@kbin.run
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        The only sensible solution then is to ban toddlers from EVs. They’ll just have to walk.

        • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          The only sensible solution then is to ban toddlers from EVs. They’ll just have to walk.

          Better give 'em guns too. With all that walking maybe they can stop a school shooting or two.

    • nailingjello@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Yes, the interior manual release works without power, but the only person in the car was a toddler in a car seat and they were not able to open it themselves.

      • Notyou@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Oh great! So someone couldn’t pull themselves up by their bootstraps and now they want a hand-out. I bet this “toddler” doesn’t even pay taxes.

        /s

      • thefartographer@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Woke toddler was working for Big Baby to make Tesla look bad

        Also, firefighters are just beefy sexy shills for the axe industry

    • _sideffect@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Ah yes… The typical downvotes for asking a question. Brilliant people we have here on lemmy, real stand up fellows.

  • Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    The fucking DOORS require a charged battery? Fuck that. That decision will age great in the next ten years. Not to mention emergency situations where the electrical system is compromised.

    • thefool@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      There’s a release latch on the doors beside the “open door” buttons. I guess no I’ve else is pointing that out?

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Pretty sure thats on the inside of the car and is actually covered as well. Release latch means shit in this situation, especially since car door design was more or less perfected over a hundred years ago at this point. Change for the sake of change is a damndable concept for tech.

        • voxel@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          obviously inside as putting it outside would make thieves job significantly easier.
          you can still break a window to pull it if there’s an emergency like with basically all other cars

          • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            No, with basically all other cars you can just unlock and open the doors with a physical key and a physical handle. That’s the next step in an emergency when the electronic locks fail, not fucking breaking through the fucking windows.

    • voxel@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      there’s a mechanical override inside the car, but from outside doors can only be opened via nfc or remotely irrc (not a real safety issue tho as the doors can still be opened by breaking the windows like in basically all other cars)

    • laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      It’s worse than that: it requires the old school lead acid 12v battery to be charged, so even if the car’s battery is full, it doesn’t matter if that old car battery has failed

      That’s not unique to Tesla EVs, but it being required to open the doors may be (the 12v lead acid runs the general vehicle electronics rather than down converting the 400v or 800v main battery… I don’t understand that decision, but I’m no electronics expert so there may be really good reasons for it…)

      • nerd_E7A8@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Let me start by stating that requiring the battery to open/close doors is a bad design choice overall. There should always be a way to open the door using a physical key.

        Ok, having said that, the 12V is a better choice. It’s easier to replace a 12V battery in case it fails and forcing the main battery to power everything runs the risk of draining that. Li-Ion batteries don’t react well to being completely drained.

        Besides, all EVs have a way to attach an external battery to the 12V system in case of total power failure, which will then allow you to do whatever you need. In case of Tesla Model Y there are two cables hidden in the tow eye cover that power the hood release. With the hood open you can charge the 12V battery directly.

      • Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        I can understand why. I’m guessing it’s for a couple reasons, maybe fluctuations in the voltage depending on driving conditions ( if you’re stomping on the throttle allowing everything to flow through the motors it may provide inconsistent voltage to the sensitive computers and electronics, I would imagine there is a step-down converter somewhere that charges that 12v battery, essentially that battery is used as a buffer. But the link between the big batt. and little batt. isn’t active unless the vehicle is on. And “On” requires the 12v system to turn on computers and close a relay.

        Doors relying on ANY electronics is a bad idea. Even most cars with keyless entry have a hidden key somewhere to physically get in the vehicle if the battery dies. If the main battery in a tesla is toast you have bigger problems than a locked door. But anyone who has been driving for more than a few years has likely dealt with an OG battery decides to stop taking a charge. And you probably won’t get much of a warning in an EV that doesn’t have an engine that starts turning over slower and slower.

      • spookedintownsville@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        I know that hybrids like the Prius (at least the older ones) use the inverter to charge the 12v battery with the EV battery to make the ICE beltless (no AC compressor, alternator, etc driven by the ICE) which is supposed to increase fuel efficiency.

      • jonne@infosec.pub
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        I really don’t understand why they still use those heavy lead acid ones. Couldn’t you at least get a lighter lithium battery if it has to be a separate circuit?

        • Verat@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          To be fair I think it is there as a backup for low temperature climates, the Lithium batteries wont charge at temps that low, but they still could have setup the lithium batteries as an emergency backup for all the 12v stuff.

          • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            When the car isn’t driving I believe the main battery isn’t connected for safety reasons. It’s a high voltage battery, and having it connected all the time even when the car is being serviced is an unnecessary safety risk.

            Yeah they could and probably should use a different battery technology than lead acid. Preferably something with a wide temperature range. Lithium Titanate Oxide anyone?

  • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    I had something similar happen to me years ago in a Toyota minivan. The car stalled and died in traffic, some kind of electrical glitch. I got out to raise the hood. The door closed behind me and it came up with just enough battery to lock itself, with my keys in the ignition and my two babies and quadriplegic husband inside. It was 107° outside. And pre-cellphones. I bolted to the nearby gas station to call 911 and grab something to break a window. Meanwhile hubby tried to coach toddler how to wriggle out of car seat and open door, but straps were too snug. Firehouse was near, and the jammed traffic was all in one direction so they used the opposite side and didn’t take long, and they jimmied the door open quickly. But it was boiling in there. Sat the kids by the road to cool off with water and get checked by paramedics, gave water to husband in car with open doors, and waited for a tow to the gas station so I could lower the ramp and get my husband out. Meanwhile of course we made the traffic even worse, but people weren’t too mad when they saw our plight as they squeezed past.

    I’m wondering, did some similar glitch happen here, or do Tesla doors lock every time they shut?

    • wagoner@infosec.pub
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Tesla model 3 doors do not lock immediately every time they shut. But if you use your cell phone as a key, the default behavior is that they are locked if you walk away with the phone a few yards.

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Might be the doors are fail shut if anything happens… But that seems like the worst design ever.

      Come to think of it, it’s basic design to designate features as fail closed/fail open on loss of power in an emergency, and you go with what’s inherently safe. It appears Tesla did not consider basic safety design. To no one’s surprise.

      • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        I design process control equipment for a living and you are 100% correct. When the controller/PLC dies or the power goes out everything goes to a safe state that protects the human. Big part of the design decisions.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          I’ve unfortunately been working on process control strategies for almost a year now on new and novel applications for my company, so I’ve been intimately familiar with this. If it isn’t obvious, this isn’t my favorite professional area of interest hahaha.

          Designating fail open and fail closed valves is so intrinsic to what I’ve been doing that I can’t imagine someone designing a car control system and not thinking about that at all.

          • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            I designed a quencher system that failed closed, no water flowing, during outages once. Granted I was an intern but still not my proudest moment.

            It’s weird now as my employer is slowing moving into motion control tech for waste. Seeing the changes like having to really think about hardwired limit switches and safety relays. Chemical world I feel is easier.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              We all make mistakes. I once forgot to include gravity in a pressure drop calculation for a 100 ft vertical pipe as part of a steam drum system. I had to send an awkward email revising the design pressure I previously communicated out.

              But hey, if we were perfect, we wouldn’t need peer review.

              I have a little bit of experience with limit switches, but that’s really interesting. It certainly seems like an unusual system. I’m a lot more familiar with safety relays.

              • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                edit-2
                9 months ago

                Imagine there is a process that makes a gas that is too hot. The solution is to spray the gas outlet with water. That’s a quencher. The PLC controls the amount the water valve is open or rather how much to close it. If the PLC dies the valve should open up as much as possible and blast water. It is better to waste water instead of risking hot gas going through ducting systems that can’t handle it.

                My mistake was putting failed closed valves in the system. If there was a power outage or a dead PLC no water would have cooled the gas. And presumably the ducting would have melted and there would have been fires.

                Like I said my most embarrassing mistake. At least we caught it before shipment.

      • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        You’re assuming they didn’t consider it, vs having considered it and thought that its more important to protect property than peoples’ lives. Again, to no one’s surprise.

      • poorlytunedAstring@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Auto-lock doors have been a nightmare in general. I always roll a window down at least far enough to stick an arm through every time I get out of a running car because of the one time forever ago that I left a 90s Pontiac Skylark running, shut the door, and it autolocked with the keys in the ignition and the motor running. I had to get my girlfriend to drive me back to my apartment for the spare key while the car was humming away, and I never forgot that. If I wasn’t close to home, with a helpful ride nearby, and a spare key on hand, I’d have been screwed.

        Talk about features that need regulated out. All because suburban whites don’t want to remember to lock the doors as they drive through the black neighborhood so the car locks itself whenever you put it in Drive.

        • kalleboo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          Every car I’ve driven with keyless ignition (which seems to be the standard now) refuses to lock if it detects the key inside the car, even if you try to do it manually by pressing the lock button, so hopefully this is a solved problem now.

          I’ve honestly never heard of self-locking cars doors, that’s a crazy idea.

          • uid0gid0@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            Our new keyless ignition vehicle wouldn’t fully close the hatch with the doors locked and the keys in the car. It would go down half way and play the “I can’t close” noise.

        • laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Last couple cars I’ve had that’s been a setting you can change… I set mine to lock when the car moves at more than a few mph, the other options seemed like too high a chance to cause an accidental lockout to me

        • 0x0@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          All because suburban whites don’t want to remember to lock the doors as they drive through the black neighborhood so the car locks itself whenever you put it in Drive.

          Color discrimination?

    • Hexarei@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Specifically, it’s that the doors opening mechanisms are powered, and the power was not being applied to open them. There is no exterior mechanical entry option.

    • jabjoe@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      I’m glad that had a happy ending and sorry that happen. Autolock is so dangerous.

      • limelight79@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Most cars I’ve used with it won’t lock until you put it in drive or start moving at a certain speed; I assume that’s because of incidents like this one.

    • DaddleDew@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Let me fill in for them then: “We CoUlDn’T PoSsIbLy pReDiCt ThAt tHiS wAs GoInG tO hApPeN!”

      That’s the usual typical Corporate bad faith answer to whenever a serious consequence that everyone could see coming but they kept ignoring finally happens.

    • Neato@ttrpg.network
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Sounds like journalists can just make shit up and publish it. “Telsa declined to comment.” so I guess it’s true until corrected.

      • frezik@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        It’s how journalists apply pressure to companies to respond. “We have statements x, y, and z from the public about you. Do you care to respond? We need to go to press with it in two hours.” Companies can ignore it if they want, but the statements will go uncontested.

    • dgmib@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      There is a manual door release that works without power, but only from the inside. She had just loaded the child in their car seat, shut the door then went to the driver door to get in and couldn’t open it.

      The doors are on the 12V side of the system, you can use jumper cables to connect an external battery from another vehicle (including ICE vehicles) to power the door under normal circumstances. But with a kid trapped in the car in AZ, I wouldn’t wait for that either.

      It a pretty rare combinations of circumstances, but there’s something to be said for manual keys still used on other vehicles with keyless entry.

    • Neato@ttrpg.network
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      The fact a car was approved that doesn’t have a manual way to open doors from inside and outside and start it is ludicrous. That’s basic-ass level shit. NHTSA is asleep at the wheel.

      • qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Other comment says there is a way from inside, just not outside (which doesn’t help with a young kid/toddler/baby is the inside passenger of course).

        Either way, glad this is “only” a huge embarrassment, and not a dead kid.

    • meseek #2982@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Or the foresight to have a small backup battery unit used exclusively for emergencies like say when the battery goes out or when someone reverses their car into a lake. The fact these are such death traps shows just how bad the US is when it comes to giving a flying fuck about people over money.

      And all the while Elon is touted as some kind of super Lex Lutherian genius.

      Honestly if I wrote a fictional book with some of the shit he’s done and how the world looks at him publishers would throw it back in my face as being the most unbelievable POS they’ve read in the past 20 years.

      • mesa@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        I still dont like something that is electric powered making it so you cant get through a door. If there is a short, the battery dies (which it will someday) or generally bad parts could potentially lead to a preventable death. Cars were made so keys (or key like) can open the door no matter what. And especially in the heat everyone is going through in the US.

    • CosmoNova@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      But how do you integrate a subscription fee into analog doors? You can‘t enshitify that!!

      • Toes♀@ani.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Oh that’s easy, just make it a one time release switch. You gotta replace the door battery after using it.

        • jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Door opener fluid. It’s a canister of fluid that you have to pump into the door to open it in an emergency. Then you get a replacement canister from the dealer for $150. I recently found out that that’s what passes for a “spare tire” anymore.

          • nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            They do they both for cost and for weight savings to try and hit CAFE standard while only selling oversized CUVs.

            Make small cars.

            We want them, they’re fun and better for everyone.

  • TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    Wish Version Iron Man:

    "Really? Do you think its 2010 again?

    This is the fuuuuuuttttuuurrreeee!!!"

    snorts Ketamine and twirls out the door

  • ForgottenFlux@lemmy.worldOP
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    According to a report from Arizona’s Family:

    The 12-volt battery that powers the car’s electronics died without warning.

    Tesla drivers are supposed to receive three warnings before that happens, but the Tesla service department confirmed that Sanchez didn’t receive any warnings.

      • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        What? No they aren’t. They almost always fail on a curve of power and voltage loss.

        Also, I didn’t look it up, but I’d be very surprised if the model Y tesla didn’t require (suggest and oem?) an AGM battery. It’s still lead, but due to how they’re made they can’t get a dead short in them like older regular lead acid batteries can once they get old, although it still isn’t very common for it to happen.

          • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            No they aren’t. They degrade before they fail. If tesla wanted to provide a warning of a failing battery that pretty much always worked it could have wired in a load test and went off voltage drop under a heavier load.

            Testing if batteries are good or bad does not qualify a person to chart out battery degradation.

              • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                9 months ago

                Once again, I did this for a living, for a decade. We would constantly have cars with failed batteries, we would bring them in, charge them up, test them, they would pass, we’d send them on their way, and they would fail again

                I also test batteries and this just looks like you all didn’t test them well. Like you skipped the capacity test because it takes being hooked up for a long time instead of the test that takes 20 seconds to do.

          • AbidanYre@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            You said other manufacturers fail at “this” referring to the 12v battery dying, but the context here is a child being trapped in a car when that battery fails. If the 12v battery fails on any other car you simply pull the handle and the door opens.

              • AbidanYre@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                edit-2
                9 months ago

                Ok fine, what other manufacturer traps someone inside when the battery fails?

                You mentioned the hidden latch on another thread. Should I bring my question over there instead?

                • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  “Should I bring my question over there instead?”

                  That’s usually what people do so conversations can actually be followed and come in a logical order…

    • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Even if she did receive warnings, she’s a grandmother who easily could miss one of the many messages on the car. It’s just bad design.

  • rsuri@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    Now imagine this happens in a remote area with no cell coverage. In Arizona those are a thing too.

    • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      No need for remoteness. Imagine you drive into water or battery catches fire. You aren’t opening those doors.

        • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          No you are not. People panic and default to most common behavior, this is why emergency exercises are a thing. In other words, the hidden manual release somewhere in the car that was never used is not going to be used in the moment of panic. You won’t even remember it exists.

          Also, that’s only on some cars and only in the front. None on the back seat.

          • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            It is not hidden, covered, obfuscated, or even in a weird location. It’s literally sitting right on the door handle. Also even with a standard 1990 car with fully manual doors you are not going to be escaping out the doors if your car falls into water. The pressure differential of the water pushing against your door prevents you from opening it until the entire inside of the car has filled with water, MythBusters did a whole episode on this back in the day if you want to go find that for the full story. But the tldr is that once your car is in the water you’re only Escape options are to break the window, get the window rolled down, or wait until the entire car has filled with water and the pressure equalizes

            Edit: turns out this is only in the M3, the Y, X, And CT are all designed by absolute idiots, and i joined them by not looking into all models

    • Psythik@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      In the middle of nowhere, maybe. But I’ve been on several road trips across the state and had service the entire way, mostly LTE with a few spots of 3G here and there. As long as you’re near the highway or a town, you’ll get service.

      • PlutoParty@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        There are giant swaths of area with no coverage, especially in the mountains of arizona, including the freeways and especially highways. The entire western US can be spotty with signal out in the great wide open. It isn’t until the Midwest and more east that one should largely not worry about signal coverage anymore.

    • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      Easy enough to get out, if you have a couple braincells to rub together. The manual release is not hidden, covered, obfuscated, or even in a weird location. It’s literally right on the door handle

      Edit: turns out this is only in the M3, the Y, X, And CT are all designed by absolute idiots, and i joined them by not looking into all models

      • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Yes. You go out to grab a rock, go back in and smash the windows. Or keep one tactical door opening rock beneath the seat.

        • Morphit @feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          beneath the seat

          For the toddler to use?

          There is a mechanical door release if you’re trapped inside. To get in from outside obviously needs the vehicle to unlock, so it has to be jump started.

          Even if there was some kind of back-up mechanical lock I can’t see anyone carrying around a key only for this specific eventuality. A glass breaker key-ring might be the best option — along with understanding how to use these emergency features in case you need them. A glass breaker might also save you in a fire or ending up underwater.

            • 𝕸𝖔𝖘𝖘@infosec.pub
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              These two remind me of the early Apple fanboys, completely talking around all the bad parts and focusing only on perceived good parts. Except, here, they’re fan-ing on a decision that was made a long time ago (using tempered glass on side windows) for exactly the reason they state is ‘bad’–it explodes into a bunch of non-sharp shards. This decision was made, and agreed upon by auto manufacturers, to prevent people getting stuck in cars on fire. Internal mechanical releases do nothing when the person inside is unconscious or is a toddler, as is in this case.

            • Morphit @feddit.uk
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              That is fun, I didn’t know that was a thing. I imagine that roll-overs are more common than submersion in water, but even so, that doesn’t sound like a great trade-off. Even in a crash, being able to quickly jump out the window is good — especially if the vehicle is on fire.

          • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            Mechanical release is hidden and not commonly used, or if ever. In moments of utter panic people will not even remember it exists, let alone use it.

            • Morphit @feddit.uk
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              The front ones don’t seem to be hidden, but yeah - if they’re not meant to be used regularly, people won’t remember them in an emergency. I guess the rear ones are hidden because they probably bypass child-locks.

              I don’t know how child-locks work on mechanical door latches. If the vehicle locks when in motion and the child-locks are on I don’t think there are emergency releases on most vehicles? The only ways out would be to get into the front cabin, break the windows, or find the internal boot release.

          • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            To get in from outside obviously needs the vehicle to unlock, so it has to be jump started.

            and how do you get to the battery to do that if you can’t get inside?

  • EnderMB@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    A lot of people are giving Tesla shit here, but surely there should be regulations in place to ensure something like this isn’t allowed to be released for public use?

    • TacticsConsort@yiffit.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Fun fact, a Tesla spokesperson describing the car’s features was talking about how they wanted something on the car that didn’t make it to final release and said “But sadly we couldn’t get that law changed”, which does… kind of imply that they lobbied the regulatory bodies into allowing this piece of shit to exist.

    • Blackmist@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      You’d think so, but who do you think pays huge sums of money every year to be allowed to sell death traps to the public?

    • cRazi_man@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Every eventuality can’t be covered by regulation. Sometimes you realise something can go disastrously wrong after someone is hurt. I wouldn’t be surprised if this never happened to other mechanical cars to never need regulation. Sometimes you need to wait for a stupid product to exist for someone to make a rule saying “stupid products shouldn’t exist”.

    • CafecitoHippo@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Sure you’d think you wouldn’t need regulations that state that there should be a manual way to open your car door. Have we gotten that stupid? Why in god’s name would you not have that option? What happens if the battery dies and you can’t start the car? You can’t open the door to pop the hood to even jump it. With all the brilliant people that work at a company like Tesla and no one thought there should be a way to open the door from the outside if there’s no power?

      • TeenieBopper@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Have we gotten that stupid?

        Something something “these regulations are written in blood” anecdote something something.

      • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        They do have a manual way of opening the car door if memory serves. It’s just in a hard to find place where a toddler wouldn’t think to look. Either way it’s a bad design. Nothing wrong with manual door handles imo.

        • T156@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          The toddler was strapped into the seat at the time, so chances are that they would not be able to find and open the door that way anyhow.

        • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          True, a toddler wouldn’t think to look directly on the door handle. Not really the type of place you’d expect to find a door release you know /s

          There is a lot of reasons to hate elon, and there is a lot of reasons to hate tesla. But it really pisses me off when people just make these circle jerk hate threads based on something they didn’t even spend half a second Googling. It just makes all the legitimate issues easier for people to blow off

          • rooster_butt@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            You keep replying with this shit to every comment. How do you expect a toddler in a child seat to use that lever? Mind you I do not close car doors with my kids inside due to my own paranoia of losing the keys or something, but it’s a horrible design flaw that you can’t open the car from outside when the 12v battery is dead.

            • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              If the toddler is locked into their seat they likely aren’t opening any door regardless. This Is Us ignoring the fact that most rear doors have a child lock button that is usually activated at least most parents I’ve seen with toddlers generally activate that button.

              There are so many legitimate things to complain about here I’m just annoyed by people basically saying wow how does it not have a manual release, or why is it hidden. When it’s not.

              The real problem here is the lack of any external manual release. Obviously it would still need to somehow be locked with a key that is not electronic, but there should still be some type of manual release even if it’s on the bottom trim of the door for the sake of your Aesthetics or whatever. The complete and utter lack of any external manual release is the problem here but nobody is talking about that and is instead just making shit up about how there is no manual release for the inside, or it’s hidden, or difficult to use, I’m just tired of people making shit up.

        • CafecitoHippo@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          They have one on the inside but not the outside. That’s why the mom couldn’t get into the vehicle or the firefighters and they had to take an axe to the window. How are you supposed to pop the hood to jump start your car if the battery is dead and you can’t get in the car because the battery is dead? It’s just a stupid design to not have a manual override.

  • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    I had something similar happen to me years ago in a Toyota minivan. The car stalled and died in traffic, some kind of electrical glitch. I got out to raise the hood. The door closed behind me and it came up with just enough battery to lock itself, with my keys in the ignition and my two babies and quadriplegic husband inside. It was 107° outside. And pre-cellphones. I bolted to the nearby gas station to call 911 and grab something to break a window. Meanwhile hubby tried to coach toddler how to wriggle out of car seat and open door, but straps were too snug. Firehouse was near, and the jammed traffic was all in one direction so they used the opposite side and didn’t take long, and they jimmied the door open quickly. But it was boiling in there. Sat the kids by the road to cool off with water and get checked by paramedics, gave water to husband in car with open doors, and waited for a tow to the gas station so I could lower the ramp and get my husband out. Meanwhile of course we made the traffic even worse, but people weren’t too mad when they saw our plight as they squeezed past.

    I’m wondering, did some similar glitch happen here, or do Tesla doors lock every time they shut?

  • Nougat@fedia.io
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    The car’s owner, Renee Sanchez, was taking her granddaughter to the zoo, but after loading the child in the Model Y, she closed the door and wasn’t able to open it again. “My phone key wouldn’t open it,” Sanchez said in an interview with Arizona’s Family. “My car key wouldn’t open it.” She called emergency services, and firefighters were dispatched to help.

    Just so nobody thinks someone left a kid in the car and then went into a store or something. Tesla should be paying for the broken window repair at the very least.

    • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Also, this is similar to a use case that Telsa likes to promote. They allow you to leave the climate on while the car is locked.

      This makes me never want to trust the dog and camp modes they advertise.

      • Nougat@fedia.io
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        In this specific example, I believe the driver buckled the child, closed the door, then was unable to open any door before starting the vehicle. Is it possible to either start the vehicle or at least turn on the climate control from outside? If not, this was a horribly dangerous situation.

        • DBNinja@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Not without the 12V. I’m pretty sure most of the internal electronics are dependent on that working. There’s an access port so you can “jump” the 12V with another car, which I think would then allow you to open the door though.

        • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Yeah, this wasn’t even intentional. The car just shit out while she was getting the car situated. Very scary.

  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    Failsafe.

    Fail Safe.

    Fail Open.

    Elon is why we need to write safety regulations. He’s the kind of guy who would put sawdust in your food and call it innovation.

    • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Agree on your overall sentiment, though I’d say it is a bit more complicated than that for car doors. You don’t want it to fail and come open while moving, for example, especially if the car is coming to a stop and inertia forces the doors fully open. That Boeing door failed open and it was not very safe.

      Vehicle doors should be fail functional rather than open to fail safe. As in designed to be very unlikely to fail and/or still functional even if one or several components do fail.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Sure, for the electrical part. But the door as a whole should Fail Open. You can pull over with an open door. You should not have to break the door to escape after a failure.

        • petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          I think the point, though, is there should be a redundant system to handle failures, like a mechanical-only door handle.

          Another example: your dashboard touchscreen fails, there should still be a button to turn on the AC. Or off. Whatever makes this analogous to the safety concern about doors.

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Car doors that aren’t on teslas don’t fail open, they are reliable enough that I can’t think of hearing about any failures that don’t involve a collision and deforming of the door (in which case it’s a fail closed and they use the jaws of life to get people out, or another door).

          An electronic latch is either engaged or it isn’t. Fail open would mean that in the absence of an electronic signal saying it should be closed, the latch will default to not being engaged, which would mean there’s nothing holding the door closed if another force acts on it.

          Don’t assume any benefit of the doubt about Tesla’s. I made no comment one way or another about what I think of their doors vs other doors. For the record, I agree completely that they fucked up this part of the design. The purpose of my comment was to say that taking that design and adding “fail open” to it won’t fix it. Fail open and fail closed both have problems with an electronic latch and the only way to fix it without causing other big problems is to design it in a way that still functions as a door that can be open or latched closed whether or not the electronic part of the latch is working.

          And I’m “deliberately misinterpreting” what fail open means? I’m having trouble understanding how it can mean anything other than how I’m interpreting it, even with your clarification, given the disagreement about other car doors failing open. Maybe it’s a misnomer that I’m misinterpreting but why are you assuming I’m doing this in bad faith?

          The downvotes themselves don’t matter, I asked because I wanted to know the reasoning behind them, well aware that bringing them up at all will probably result in more of them.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        Two options:

        • your statement comes off a bit ignorant - a failsafe would just pop the latch (and up and down motion) and wouldn’t be impacted by braking forces (front and back motion)
        • you weren’t explicitly saying bad things about Elon Musk

        But the general idea of things still working despite failure is the essence of what the OP was saying. People seem to not like comments that refine what others say (I have plenty of experience there), they prefer comments that either correct or blatantly support the parent comment. I don’t get it, but whatever.

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          For the fail-safe bit, if the latching system fails to an unlatched position, then the inertia of the door itself could cause it to open on braking and turns (or if someone leans on it or bumps it), since nothing else would be holding it in place.

          Obligatory fuck Elon Musk lol.

          It’s not generally as bad here as it is on Reddit. I still see the occasional comments that make me wonder if their author has any reading comprehension skills, but Reddit seemed to have representation from those kinds of posters in most comment threads. Even on the topics where Lemmy has general biases for, comments can still go off the beaten trail without getting crucified.

          Though with the smaller sample size of voters, I think Lemmy might see more cases where a comment initially goes one way and then swings the other way, which seems to be the case with my comment above, at least for now (and is part of the reason why I try to refrain from ever commenting on the votes, but usually there’s also a spicy or bolder part of my comment where I’m not as surprised if it goes negative).