• TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      The war will have to end with a peace deal or the destruction of one of the parties. Russia is doing fine while UA is falling apart.

      What do you think is the best option for the people that live in Ukraine?

      • Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 year ago

        The best option is russia going home. The worst option is being made a part of the country ruled by the murderous psychopath.

        • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          I think it’s best not to focus too much on Putin. He is the head of a faction and only rules by the consent of the ruling class of Russia. He is adept at managing that position but when he dies there’s little reason to think that would mean a substantial change in policy.

          Re: Russia going home, I agree that the best course is for the war to end, which of course necessitates the withdrawal of Russian troops.

    • hyperobject@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      You found about this war 8 years after the Ukrainians began bombing children. You will never come to grips with reality. I don’t pity people like you any longer. 👍

      • ssj2marx@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        If Ukraine wanted a deal that was in their favor, they would have implemented the Minsk agreements that they signed, and most of the war would have been averted and they would have been able to keep Donbas. But for Azov it was always about ethnic cleansing Eastern Ukraine, so even that was a nonstarter.

        • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Russia is the one engaged in ethnic cleansing. Ukraine was strong armed into signing the Minsk agreement, and Russia dissolved it before their invasion. It’s almost like ceding territory to Russia for ceasefires is a futile process of appeasement that will result in piecemeal conquest by the invaders.

            • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Russia broke it by stationing soldiers and military equipment in Donetsk and Luhansk. They also broke the ceasefire by invading.

              • MaeBorowski@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                So is this what someone told you and you believed it, or are you just straight making shit up?

                Merkel (and others, but most famously Merkel) openly boasted about how the Minsk Agreements were designed to buy more time to arm Ukraine for the conflict they were intentionally and actively trying to provoke, and weren’t ever serious attempts at peace. What Russia did wrong in that case was to be apparently stupid enough to believe Ukraine and the western backers would honor the Minsk Agreements. Russia rolling into Ukraine was a result of the breaking of Minsk.

                • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  Sounds like we’re in agreement that Russia broke the ceasefire by invading.

                  As for the stationing of troops and equipment, it’s well documented they were sending shipments of equipment in weekly.

                  In regards to Ukraine arming themselves, no shit, they had just been invaded. There was nothing in the Minsk agreement that said Ukraine couldn’t defend itself from future invasions. Russia was party to the Minsk agreements, and required to remove their forces and military equipment, but did the opposite, sending more. Germany was not forbidden by the agreements to assist Ukraine.

                  • MaeBorowski@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Sounds like we’re in agreement that Russia broke the ceasefire by invading.

                    Not really, no. A ceasefire becomes void when on of those who agreed to it starts, you know, firing.

                    It doesn’t matter whether Germany was forbidden from “assisting” Ukraine, the point is that it is openly known that the West had no intention of honoring the agreements and used them only as a ploy. If you want to cynically claim ‘that’s just shrewd military tactics, it’s Russia’s own fault for believing NATO/Ukraine’s coup regime promises, ceasefires don’t mean shit, lol!’ then fine, but you can’t then hold the position that Russia are the ones who can’t be trusted with agreements or that they are the ones who broke the agreements.

                    There was nothing in the Minsk agreement that said Ukraine couldn’t defend itself from future invasions.

                    There was plenty in there about not continuing to shell Donetsk, which of course they did, frequently killing civilians.

          • ssj2marx@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Russia is the one engaged in ethnic cleansing.

            You don’t know what started the conflict, do you? You think Russia invaded just for gits and shiggles.

            • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Russia invaded for territory. It’s not unprecedented, it’s one of the most common reasons for a country to invade a neighbor, and they’ve done it before.

            • Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. If that wouldn’t have happened, there wouldn’t be any war, because the ‘separatists’ movements were just a bunch of hobos. This is confirmed by Strelkov and Borodai. Are you gonna object them?

      • Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 year ago

        ‘8 years of bombing children’ is an argument that was disproved by people who started this war in 2014 (also absolutely coincidentally they were Russians). Also I challenge you to provide proofs for massive bombing campaign that Ukraine unleashed towards Donetsk/Luhansk region, for 8 years.

        Learn something new, you muppet.