Police are there to help
Police are there to help *maintain the status quo
Fixed
Depends on where you live it seems
Where do you recon they are helping? Out of three countries I’ve lived in, they are either useless or just simply ACAB.
It does exist. But it’s 99% ACAB.
One of the countries I spend a lot of time, the police are amazing. There is no crime, so the police truly are just to assist. They don’t carry weapons. They don’t give out traffic tickets, it’s all automated. They do give out directions, photo ops, perform ritual ceremonies, distribute free meals to anyone who wants one, give free workout sessions on the beach, give free sports training, lead free expeditions into nature, etc. It’s a sense of community spirit that is their mission.
I’m sure there is a bad apple somewhere but every single one I’ve seen or interacted with has been pleasant to wonderful. I’m not even terrified to approach them as I am in the USA where I’ve almost been murdered twice by pigs.
Where I live they were systematically nice people that helped keep everybody safe. If they found some drunk/high person that needed help, they would drive them home. When we were teens and had beach parties, a couple of them would typically hang around somewhere out of the way, and only intervene if someone was being an asshole trying to start a fight (and they would tell people to pick up their glass bottles so kids wouldn’t get hurt the next day). If we were otherwise hanging around they might chat to us and ask what was going on around the neighbourhood, and nobody had an issue telling them anything, because we knew they were just there to look after and help people.
Obviously, I can tell that my experience with police growing up is far from what can be expected a lot of other places. I really do wish more places had police like we did.
“maybe” was how my mother said “no.”
“Ignore them and they’ll go away” in the context of bullying. Hint; it took a mental breakdown and violence to make it stop, back in the mid-90s.
Anything having to do with Christianity.
“Ignore them and they’ll go away” really is rubbish advice. But that’s of course not to say that the only other step is violence.
My oldest daughter didn’t have a great time in secondary school (UK, age 11-16) but through persistent discussions and alarm raising to the school, the bullies eventually got the message and left her alone. I’m happy to say she’s having a wonderful time in college now (UK, age 16-18).
Unfortunately that’s a minority of cases. Most bullies in my experience, and especially those bullies that are themselves using physical violence, only respond to violence.
Don’t meet violence with violence as your first option. But keep it on the table. It’s a viable solution if nothing else works. Some people just don’t respond to anything short of getting punched in the mouth, especially kids/teens with their brain chemistry fucked six ways to Sunday by puberty.
Don’t meet violence with violence as your first option. But keep it on the table.
Something something “speak softly but carry a big stick.”
Basically, pacifism without the capacity for violence is simply inviting abuse. If you don’t have the capacity for violence, pacifism isn’t a choice; It’s being forced upon you as a tool of oppression. In order to be used effectively, it must be a choice, which requires the threat of violence if pacifism fails.
Yep, I had a bully in elementary school and my mom tried to work with the system of teachers, principal, admin, etc. for months, and nothing at all was ever done about it.
Finally when the bullying escalated to physical levels and started to impact my personality outside of school, my parents basically told me that while I might still get in trouble at school, they wouldn’t be upset with me at home if I did decide to stand up to the kid. They stressed to me the fine line between standing up for yourself and becoming a bully yourself, and sent me on my way.
A few days later, my bully found me at lunch and started messing with me. Pushing over my stack of booking, taking some food off my tray…I didn’t do anything until he tried to push me out of my seat then it was kind of blurry, but basically I just took a swing at him and knocked him back out of his seat and he hit his head against the wall and started crying.
I did get in some trouble at school but nothing too bad (especially once Mom was called in and she explained how if they tried to suspend me, she’d put them on blast for how they’d ignored the situation for so long), and that kid was nice as pie to me for the rest of our schooling.
In middle school, I had an incident where a kid a grade above me (he was held back, so he should’ve been a high schooler by this point and was HUGE) began to mess with me, unprompted, at the end of the day.
He stepped on my shoes as we walked, poked me, called me names, etc. When I turned around and called him a bitch and kept walking, he sucker punched me and ran. It was so bad I ended up in the emergency room with stitches.
Anyways, my parents were called and they threatened legal action. The school begged them not to, because they were “going to take care of it, we promise.” Once we found out he was only suspended for a week, my parents got all the info they needed to press charges for assault. He ended up in juvie.
Looking back, it’s a shame he ended up “in the system,” but that’s what he gets for being a bitch. Lol
They should have gone after the school too; that’s horrible!
My father pulled that “just ignore it” shit, too. Somehow it wasn’t the bully’s fault for attacking me, it was my fault for being such an entertaining target.
In Catholic school in the nineties and early 2000’s, we were all told that the sex abuse scandal was serious but that it was also “a small number of incidents.” That we needed to pray for the victims and the souls of the perpetrators.
Then I went to college. Come to find out not only was the child rape widespread, not only did the church actively hide monsters from legal scrutiny, not only was this all directly effecting the local arch diocese (not my school specifically, but church leaders were forced to quickly rename another high school when allegations against a dead bishop proved too numerous to ignore)… not only all that but that it’s still going on, just not in first world countries with robust networks of journalists and legal systems. That an alleged pedophile was (while I was in college) living in the Vatican, being directly sheltered from extradition by South American authorities.
I guess the lie was that it was all over. That it was a small problem. That the church was a safe place people could turn to. I left the church at 18 over it, became an atheist by 19, and that’s where I’m at now at 35.
“You’re a boy!”
Lol
I love you
I think the opposite list would be shorter
Almost everything I was taught about nutrition later turned out to be BS
Yeah this is a great point!
Fat is bad! Sugar is fine (but brush your teeth)! Yes, this thing that’s been vacuum packed for 24 months is still edible food.
Yes, this thing that’s been vacuum packed for 24 months is still edible food.
it isn’t?
Basically everything
Everything’s gonna be ok.
Trust me, I know what I’m doing.
You’ll understand when you’re older.
As a parent, sometimes it’s a hope, not a lie.
Sitting in a hot tub as a kid will make you infertile.
Totally an old wive’s tale. I looked it up when I was an adult and found out I had been deprived of tons of hours of hot tub time.
the hot tube temperature lowers the current batch of sperm’s motility and count, alter the DNA and general quality. your balls cannot extend far enough to escape the hot tub. its not permanent. if you want to conceive, stop boiling your nuts.
Well you assumed my sex, but regardless, that claim is still disputed. Some research indicates that it does temporarily lower sperm counts.
None of that is particularly relevant though, because my family was claiming it would permanently cause me to become infertile.
That was them actually believing it, right? Or were they in fact using a deliberate lie to limit your bath tub time for some other reason?
Unclear, my grandma was a nurse. I thought she should have known better, but then again, maybe back in the day that was considered accurate advice medically.
Nothing good happens after midnight.
Followed by “You were conceived at 12:01”
That becomes true again once you turn 40
If you have kids, you’ll get a second wind when they’re gone. Our adult son was staying with us for a while. We came in about 3:00 a.m. and scared the shit out of him because he thought we were upstairs asleep.
God exists and watches everything you do and loves you while threatening you with eternal damnation.
And he’s terrible with money! He needs more money!
George Carlin, how we miss thee.
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You’re allowed to be atheist of course, but do you have any more proof that there are no gods than they have that gods exist?
The default position is that we don’t know if a specified thing exists. To prove or disprove it, you need evidence. I can prove that the Christian God doesn’t exist, as it is logically impossible, but it’s possible that some other version of a god might exist, I don’t know. I don’t have evidence either way.
How can you prove the Christian God doesn’t exist?
It’s logically impossible, it has contradictory aspects.
You made a typo in your original comment
I can prove that the Christian God doesn’t exist
I don’t see any typo, where do you think there is one?
Ah sorry I misunderstood your comment
Yes, you said that, but what exactly?
For example, omnipotence is a self-contradictory term, as you have a dilemma - if a being is all powerful enough to give itself limits, it is not omnipotent as it wouldn’t be able to do the things it limited itself to do. Whereas if it can’t self-impose limits, it’s also not omnipotent as it isn’t able to self-impose limits. Another example is that suffering exists in the world, which would be a contradiction if an all-powerful being that wanted to end suffering existed, since it should, but it isn’t.
And these are just contradictions within God’s character. If you want to look at the things he actually claims to have done, you’ll find numerous more in the Bible. Just as one example, Jesus’s last words are different in almost every gospel.
None of this is new or hasn’t been thought about, written about and deflated for centuries. I doubt you have any theologians shaking in their boots.
The meaning of omnipotence as it translates to Good has always been nuanced. There have always been things God can’t do - sin being the obvious example. You could debate whether he can, but just never would because of his character, but it amounts to the same thing and has been orthodoxy for centuries.
The apparent contradictions on the Gospels (especially synoptic) have been done to death. Debated and answered more times than you’ve had hot dinners. There is no serious theologian or biblical scholar who would hear that argument and be at all concerned by it.
Honestly the same applies to the idea of a good god and suffering.
It’s impossible to prove the non-existence of something. It’s on those who believe in god to prove its existence.
And the Bible doesn’t count as sufficient evidence because that would be like believing Harry Potter exists because JK Rowling says so.
Unless you claim, as OP did, that you can actually disprove it.
I agree that the Bible is not sufficient in the sense that it proves anything or sews up their arguments, but to suggest its historical value as evidence is the same as modern day fiction is absurd.
You should familiarize yourself with the concept called Burden of Proof. They (those who believe in God, and claim he exists and created all things, etc) are the ones where the burden lies. It is not for the rest of us to prove their beliefs for them, or you.
Careful, many online atheists don’t understand that they have to prove a negative. That they have to prove the assertion: “There is no god.”
The default position is that there is yet insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion.
This guy eats babies
prove me wrong
You have made the assertion, thus you have the burden of proof.
“what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence” QED
…Do you not realize that the same goes for god?
I wasn’t arguing for the existence of god.
Let me break this down:
- “There is a god.” --> Burden of proof
- “There is no god.” --> Burden of proof
- “Hey, man. I don’t know.” —> No burden of proof
The second one is wrong, there is no god is not a claim that requires evidence in the same way there are no fairies in my fridge doesn’t require evidence
Are you implying that a negative categorically cannot be proven?
No. A negative can be proven. It’s done all the time in science and mathematics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)#Proving_a_negative
Ok, just verifying that that fallacy wasn’t the crux of your argument
I’m not against religion, but that’s not how evidence and proof works. Do you have any proof that tiny invisible pink elephants aren’t hiding in your fridge?
that’s not how evidence and proof works.
Proof of a negative is common in science and mathematics.
No, you can’t prove that something never happens or that something doesn’t exist. You can sometimes prove something that contradicts the existence of something, but that’s not proving that the thing itself doesn’t exist, because it’s epistemologically not possible
No, you can’t prove that something never happens or that something doesn’t exist.
Science, philosophy, and mathematics say otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)#Proving_a_negative
Then why did you dodge the request to prove there are no tiny invisible pink elephants in your fridge, wise guy? lmao
If you’re claiming my fridge has no tiny invisible pink elephants you are welcome to provide evidence.
I will make no claims on the matter and thus have to provide no evidence either way.
Edit: I think you’re confusing me for the other guy.
That’s not really how it works though. If I tell you there’s an invisible dragon living under your bed who will burn your house down at some time in the future if you don’t give me $10. You can’t disprove it, but because I’m the one making the claim that the dragon exists the burden of proof is on me.
The burden of proof tennis is quite tricky here because it’s not about whether you claim something exists, it’s whether you claim something that goes against what’s generally accepted. If I claim quantum mechanics don’t exist, it’s not on you to prove they do.
And that’s before we get into the fact that there isn’t a general consensus on whether God (or any gods) exist.
Your premise is incorrect. The burden of proof for quantum mechanics is on the people claiming they exist. They provided those proofs, which is why people believe in them. I haven’t studied quantum mechanics, but if you asked somebody who does, they could offer proof or evidence. And if they couldn’t, then your claim it doesn’t exist (until proof was proffered) would be correct.
It was on them until society generally accepted it. Now if I claim it doesn’t exist, the burden is on me.
Or how about this: if I claim dinosaurs never existed and thus the fossils didn’t come from them, it’s not on you to prove they did.
You’re missing the point. It’s not a one time thing. Evidence existed, that evidence was found, and that’s what made it change to being accepted.
That evidence still exists, so if you claim dinosaurs don’t exist, we can just point to the evidence that still exists. That evidence didn’t get spirited away like golden plates to heaven. We’re still finding dinosaur bones.
If you claim dinosaurs don’t exist, I would point to the wealth of evidence that they do. If you were raised in some religious cult that never taught anything about dinosaurs and taught that the Earth was 6000 years old, and therefore didn’t think giant creatures existed hundreds of millions of years ago, it would absolutely be on the person claiming they exist to show you dinosaur bones. Which is evidence.
I see your point, but the idea here is that, since I’m starting from the assumption that dinosaurs don’t exist, I conclude that the fossils came from some source other than dinosaurs, so they can’t be used as pro-dinosaur evidence. But at the same time I don’t offer an alternative explanation on where they came from.
Don’t argue with idiots.
Not really though? Non-existence of anything is the default. Existence of something puts the burden of proof on whoever claims this something exists. “Quantum mechanics” is a bad example, it’s a set of theories, not a single theory (like “a god exists”). Depending on what is being claimed, you can easily show people papers, such as this one which shows experimental observable proof of principles of quantum theory.
At one point, quantum mechanics didn’t exist and wasn’t generally accepted. Physicists like Heisenberg took upon them the burden of proof and provided it.
General acceptance is how it is treated since then, by non-physicists, but it is simply possible to follow the proof of it if you really wanted to. There are experiments that have been performed and that can be performed again that create observable evidence of the principles of quantum mechanics.
The burden of proof still lies on proponents of quantum mechanics. What you’re talking about is more of a societal shortcut, accepting that the burden of proof has been verified by other people, not by yourself, as it’s impossible to go deep enough into every subject to actually verify every proof you come across. That’s why specialization exists.
The difference is that 99% of physicists confirm the proof of quantum mechanics. Specialists on religion are all very much divided on which god(s) or whether at all one exists, and no proof exists for any religious theories.
So if everyone believed in the invisible dragon under your bed, would that shift the burden of proof to you? I don’t see what the general consensus has to do with anything.
The people who say quantum mechanics exists don’t just claim it, they can demonstrate it through peer reviewed evidence. Quantum mechanics is also a theory based on observable facts intended to propose testable mechanisms by which those facts can be explained. My claim of a dragon under your bed has no such backing.
As smarter people than me have said, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Yeah, if everyone believes there’s an invisible dragon under my bed, then that means the burden of proof is on me to claim there isn’t. And I’d probably address that with a stick.
As for assertion without evidence, how do you feel about eyewitness accounts of miracles? Or sociological reasoning on the odds of the disciples keeping a conspiracy for their whole lives? Or how about the origin of the universe - we had all the matter in the universe condensed into a single point, complete with laws that would lead to such interesting things as nuclear fusion, complex planetary orbits, and even pockets of life. Do you take it as a given that it’s far more likely for that to have come out of nowhere than for a higher power to exist and have arranged it as such?
You’re free to discount the evidence (though I’d be happy to debate it with you,) and dismiss the claims because it doesn’t align with your experiences. But note that the idea that all this happened without God is as absurd to me as the existence of God is to you, and equally unsubstantiated.
No no a stick won’t work, the invisible dragon is very small and agile and would easily dodge your stick. It only makes itself known when it wants to.
I feel the same about eyewitness accounts of miracles. Eyewitness testimony is not evidence. It could be a good place to start to investigate miraculous claims but that’s all.
I’m not dismissing claims because it doesn’t align with my experiences, but because there is no reliable evidence. In fact depending on the type of diety you propose I think many claims can be shown to be false because they a contradictory with reality.
I’d be interested to hear the evidence you have for sure. I’m open to changing my views. I’m not scholar but my understanding is that the best we have is a collection of anonymously written books which isn’t enough for me to accept such a huge claim.
I don’t know about the origin of the universe but I don’t think anyone claims things came from nothing, we simply don’t know what was before the big bang. Not knowing the answer to me isn’t a good enough reason to assume a divine entity is responsible.
Eyewitness testimony isn’t evidence, eh? Before I get too invested in this, I want to know what you do consider to be evidence. Suppose that, hypothetically, I run a study where I recruit 1000 people off the street. I tell them that at some point over the next 10 days, I’m going to pray for them to experience peace. For each person, I roll a 10 sided die to choose which day to pray on, do so, and record the result. Then at the end of the 10 days, I bring them all back and ask them to indicate on which day they felt the most peace. ~600 of them say the same day that I rolled for them, ~150 of them are one day off, and ~100 can’t give an answer. If this were to happen (solely hypothetical, ignoring any arguments about whether God would play along for a study,) would that count as evidence?
so, you can get around the burden of proof by getting enough people to perpetrate the lie?
Much like every good con or pyramid scheme.
Not one person has provided proof that there is no Higher Power. Grow up…
Because that’s not the atheist position. You’re wrestling with a claim nobody is making.
Atheism doesn’t claim there is no “Higher Power”, it’s just a disbelief in theistic claims.
Let’s start with clarifying an element of the question:
Which characteristics define a god? Do these characteristics violate the laws of physics and/or internal logic? If these characteristics do not violate the laws of physics, then what aspects distinguish a god from a mundane or natural entity?
Basically everything my mother ever said. I repeat a lot of it back to her now, and she always asks, “where did you hear such absurdities?”
“that’s not what I remember” “That’s not how I remember it” “You must be remembering it wrong” “I would never say that”
Ohhhhhhh how good that must feel.
“I never said that!”
The axe forgets, the stump remembers
That talking to strangers was bad.
That strangers are bad and cops are good.
That there isn’t good and bad of each.
When I was a little kid, I asked my grandfather what the bumps in the middle of the road (the reflectors) were for. He told me that it was so blind people could drive. It made perfect sense to me, and I believed that for longer than I should have!
Your grandfather sounds rad
They’re called Bott’s dots! Most places where it snows don’t have them because they don’t survive ploughing.
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interesting, never thought of that before. Las Vegas Nevada (never snows there!) has excellent road infrastructure and these dots are everywhere. You can tell casino dollars and tax dollars are well used in Las Vegas. The roads are very nice.
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Bott’s dots – first thing that came to mind was like Dippin’ Dots
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