Well now I want to try it lmao. Thanks for the publicity, dairy industry.
Unbelievably shitty ragebait journalism.
The traditional cheesemaking company is freaking out (really?) about Climax Blue, especially because the vegan cheese was so delicious that it had slated (it had slated did it?) to win the overall competition
Though yes, there is a bit of controversy here, but at least the Washington Post tries to explain it in a less incredibly-biased way - https://wapo.st/3xQCcYX
Bro, insecure meat eaters are such pieces of shit.
meatlets upset it tastes better
You know cheese isn’t meat, right?
What has eating meat got to do with cheese?
Slice’m all up and put it on a board. Yum yum
a lot of cheeses use caft rennet.
Also cheese in general a by product of the meat industry. You can’t have a lactating cow without keeping it perpetually pregnant, Where do you think those calves go?
I promise you it ain’t a nice meadow where they get to live out the rest of their “natural” lives frolicking
And then when the milk eventually dries up the dairy cow gets deadded too… FUN!
I appreciate the response and see no reason to downvote you - and you are at a net positive so clearly more people are up voting.
Your bias is very clear, but then so is mine!
You’d think so. i’m not even vegan. i’m just concious about where my food comes from
Mmmm, veal.
insightful
Also cheese in general is a by product of the meat industry.
Its more the other way around. Meat is the by product of creating milk. Not all meat is a by product, but some.
Either way round you look at it, one supports the other
You realize this wasn’t meat eaters but cheese makers, right?
Yes, and cheese often contains cow.
Holy shit, they put actual cows in cheese?
No. No they don’t.
They do, it’s called rennet
Most cheeses don’t use natural rennet anymore. About 70% of worldwide cheese production uses artificial “vegetarian” rennet. And you can easily look up those who still use rennet harvested from calfs so you can avoid them.
I mean, they do make cheeses with embedded bit of meat, but that’s usually pig (specifically bacon).
Oh what if you added bacon to pepper jack. Little bits of peppers in cheese is freaking delicious. Add bacon to it and it’s like a slice of jalapeno poppers lol
I made a jalapeno poppers soup that was really good recently. I’ll post the recipe if I find it again, or just Google “jalapeno poppers soup.”
no, they just foribly impregnate cows every single year of their life, take away their calves the second they are born to take the milk from their overloaded udders until they collapse or stop being comercially viable. Then they are killed. Just like their male children a few weeks after being born.
The milk industry is arguably more cruel than the meat industry. We should reject both
Can’t be bought yet. Later this year they say.
I’m closer to a carnivore than a vegan, but if something is good, it’s good. I’m not going to hate on something delicious because I feel threatened by someone else’s life choices.
Don’t worry, farmers; if I start eating vegan cheese I promise I’ll make up for it in beef consumption.
Every time I eat vegan cheese my mouth says this ain’t quite right. But the taste is usually fine.
I think attitudes like this are borderline psychopathic and I bet you’ve never rendered an animal in your entire life.
“I’m so fun at parties people can’t even handle me”
and I bet you’ve never rendered
Red flag. No native English speaker talks like this.
I was born in Boston you shitheel.
Notwithstanding the fact that the comment was obviously made in jest, why would it matter whether a consumer had anything to do with the preparation of the food? I don’t think anyone is genuinely ignorant of where meat comes from.
Same. I had some green Thai curry “duck” at a vegan restaurant once and it was the bomb!
I mean if you put Thai curry on anything, it’s going to taste awesome. Panang for life.
Panang gang, rise up!!
Would you consider reducing according to carbon footprint?
I live mostly on beer, so I’m doing my part.
from personal experience, veggie burgers make excellent topping-condiments to regular burgers
they have all the flavors a burger wants
I like this suggestion. Plus it still ultimately reduces beef consumption because maybe I only eat one of these doubles instead of two burgers.
Damn, who would have thought liking good food would be so controversial xD
I’m also a meat eater but Impossible burgers hold a special place in my heart. If I’m craving a whopper I’ll always go for the Impossible whopper instead - it’s just so much more satisfying.
Similarly, the meat quality at my local Chinese spots is questionable so I always get tofu instead.
I’m down to only eating meat half of days, and only for dinner, vs eating meat with every meal every day. My wallet and waistline have thanked me.
A lot of vegan “alternatives” are actually really good when you know what you’re doing with them. I will take tofu or mushrooms over meat any day tbh. Problem is some people don’t know that and will just prepare tofu like it’s meat, and then wonder why their tofu tastes like shit.
I tried tofu multiple times in different meals as a alternative for meat, but sadly all were disappointing. Do you have recipes that you can recommend? I am eager to find one.
Im both a meat eater and tofu lover. Mapo tofu is probably one of my favorite dishes.
This is the recipe I sort of follow https://thewoksoflife.com/ma-po-tofu-real-deal/
They’re not mutually exclusive. For those too lazy to follow the link - traditional mapo tofu (like many Chinese tofu recipes) isn’t vegetarian . Tofu as a total replacement for meat is a Western idea - in most Eastern cultures that use it, tofu is just another ingredient and often used along with meat and animal based broths. The same is true of soy milk.
Stir fry
A lot of times I think the problem is trying to substitute the protein in a dish with tofu or something vegan. It’s always going to be compared to the meat version. Should just try to find recipes that were tofu based to begin with, like mapo tofu.
I tried different recipes, but most of them were underwhelming, like the meal would be kinda the same without.
Stir fry how? Which type of tofu, pressed? And probably dipped in cornstarch?
Tofu doesn’t really bring taste, just texture so that’s kinda to be expected. That’s why I typically get firm or extra firm. I like those textures over softer ones.
I’m not sure what you mean by pressed as all tofu is pressed. That’s how tofu is made. I’ve never tried dipping it in cornstarch so IDK how that would turn out. I don’t typically do anything other than cut it up and cook it.
As for how to stir fry; I suggest looking that up. You mostly just use whatever veg and protein you want and add some stir fry sauce at the end. I haven’t really found one I prefer. I don’t do stir fry all that often. I really should since it’s super simple.
Extra firm+fried in oil has never NOT been a hit for me! Generally sesame or strangely peanut butter has killed it among my non-veg friends, trying to make a dish for both non-veg and vegan friends.
I love meat, but some do the best dishes my partner and I have ever made are vegan, and fried tofu is a staple.
We have friends who are vegan or have very strange allergies and have to cook for a mixed crowd
Banger meals, seriously
That’s a really dumb argument. Sorry but literally every food is really good when you know what you are doing with it.
It is not even a question of quality… some of the tastiest food is terrible quality used with great effect.
That doesn’t even take into account personal preference, which is majorly just familiarity.
The awards world is filled with awards that would never be given if there wasnt a story to go with it. This vegan cheese is an example of this as well.
Problem is some people don’t know that and will just prepare tofu like it’s meat, and then wonder why their tofu tastes like shit.
You arent even wrong about this, but you could say the exact same thing about damned near anything that has more than a single opinion on.
Like literally exchange in what i quoted tofu to a burger patty and instead of “like its meat” change it to some aspect of the experience. Whether its what temperature to cook it or how thin or thick it is.
Same exact argument based on different peoples familiarity. Many people dont have just dont care that much and also some people are really bad at cooking.
To sum up my point, you are making a statement that is so broad it is useless
Might want to switch to other animals, beef is questionable ATM.
All of my beef is in my freezer from a local farmer about two months ago. Hopefully it’s clear.
yolo
Has it been confirmed that Bird Flu is transferable via beef? Legit question, I just haven’t seen any news about that recently.
Remnants of bird flu have been found in bovine milk and recently sampled in 20% of milk in grocery stores. So far, it’s been determined to just be “genetic material” - not live or infectious. Milk is pasteurized in the US so it’s reasonably safe to keep drinking. I don’t believe this would impact beef consumption, certainly not cooked beef.
Beth Mole at Ars Technica has been covering it https://arstechnica.com/author/beth/
The CDC is reporting at least one dairy worker has been infected https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.htmlImagine the crisis that a public health bulletin stating “red meat should be cooked thoroughly” would cause. Heh heh heh
“Consuming raw or undercooked meats, poultry, seafood, shellfish or eggs may increase your risk of foodborne illness" has been the standard disclaimer since 2016, but nobody’s thrown a fit, even though there’s a big difference between a rare steak and rare burger (the interior of the ground beef has been exposed, the interior of the steak has not).
I don’t think it’s been confirmed. Here’s your chance to be #1.
Patient zero.
I think only prions can spread through meat
Edit: I’m obviously wrong, salmonella exists. Also a quick Google search says viruses can also be transferred through meat
I haven’t heard anything about it, only that it’s been detected in milk and pasteurization kills it. Cooking should kill it if it’s in meat anyway. At least to medium, preferably to full doneness.
must’ve been the italians.
And before you ask, no it’s not racist, they claim to be the only legitimate source of a certain type of cheese, or more, maybe idk cheese lore lmao.
I think you are referring to the DOP system? It certifies that a food with a certain name actually respects the history and quality behind that name.
But you can always make up new names pr use generic names. For example “blue cheese” is not protected under DOP, however Gorgonzola is. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgonzola
I have found their website https://climax.bio/, and they only advertize this product as blue cheese, not Gorgonzola.
However, unlike you have suggested, the DOP system is proposed and managed by the EU, not Italy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_designation_of_origin and a more complete list of types of protected names: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_traditional_specialities_in_the_European_Union
Finally, the article states the rejection is because the lack of safety certificate, not related to geographical or traditional protection.
After initially being named a finalist, Climax Blue cheese was later disqualified by the Good Food Foundation, reportedly due to issues around one of the ingredients (kokum butter) not having GRAS certification. But Climax CEO Oliver Zahn accused the foundation of caving to pressure from the dairy cheese industry and changing the rules after the fact to disqualify his product.
“GRAS” stands for “generally regarded as safe” and is issued by the FDA https://www.fda.gov/food/food-ingredients-packaging/generally-recognized-safe-gras
i didn’t know that it was an EU body, but i suppose that makes sense.
Regardless, it was a bit of humor, so don’t think too hard about it.
I have found their website https://climax.bio/, and the only advertize this product as blue cheese, not Gorgonzola.
That won’t fly in the EU, cheese has to be made from milk and milk are the excretions of mammary glands (though some countries have grandfathered in things like coconut milk).
And before a vegan comes around and calls the whole thing nonsense: There’s been cases of salami pizza using non-cheese “cheese” but advertising it as cheese. If milk and cheese can be freely applied to animal and non-animal products then it’s a given that the likes of Nestle will try their darnest to confuse customers to make extra profit. For the vegans: Each time you want to buy a cheese-like substance you’d have to double-check labels because you never know whether it’s animal or non-animal, companies certainly will prefer “cheese” over another term because vegetarians and omnis are way more numerous.
I guess if you don’t want to make up a new word for vegan “cheese” Tofu is a good option? “Blue Tofu” doesn’t sound too bad.
kokum butter
…is apparently used in chocolate making as a cocoa butter substitute? Can’t find any online listings for the stuff outside of cosmetics, though, so I guess it’s not approved as foodstuff in the EU. Probably just a matter of going through the paperwork but someone’s going to have to do it. The Foundation disqualifying stuff that couldn’t be sold legally as food in the EU TBH doesn’t sound particularly sus, though granted they might want to have a separate award for experimental food.
Sorry I think they specify that it is “vegan blue cheese”, is that okay in the EU?
Nope. You also can’t call it I can’t believe it’s not cheese
Hum, interesting, do you have a source for that?
Paragraph 24, referring to the EU regulation that I’m too lazy to unearth right now the ECJ has to suffice:
Furthermore, it is clear from that wording that clarifying or descriptive terms indicating the plant-based origin of the product concerned, such as soya or tofu, at issue in the main proceedings, do not fall within the terms which may be used with the designation ‘milk,’ in accordance with point 1, second subparagraph (b), since the alterations to the composition of milk that the additional words may designate under that provision are those which are limited to the addition and/or subtraction of its natural constituents, which does not include a total replacement of milk by a purely plant-based product.
I would expect the same reasoning to apply to “I can’t believe it’s not” type of deals but I’ve never seen that kind of stuff anywhere in the EU anyway, also before that judgement, someone else would’ve tried it if it was legal. Probably just general misleading marketing kind of deal, the same kind of strictness that gave us “serving suggestion” in fine print on a pack of trail mix with a couple of raisins and nuts in a bowl. The package doesn’t include a bowl? Who would’ve thought?
Really, the disqualification is probably better publicity than winning the award itself. If someone told me some vegan cheese won a “Good Food” award, I would assume it was related to eco- and social-consciousness. Learning that it was so delicious that the dairy industry schemed to take away the award tells me they’re afraid of the competition.
Right, first thing I thought when I read this is “where can I get some of that ‘cheese’”
Yeah, well, you can’t. It’s only available to restaurants, and isn’t ready for retail. That’s one of the stupid reasons they can’t have their stupid award. Stupid sexy cheesish.
The username, the grumpy desire for vegan cheese. Perfect.
Indeed, and while they might have been initially furious at the snub, this is going to wind up being VERY good for business. Now they have an incredible story to tell, complete with mystery and intrigue that consumers love. Their marketing department must be salivating right now.
When Seiko beat the Swiss at their own mechanical watch accuracy competitions, they decided to cancel the long running prestigious competition entirely instead of make a better watch.
Capitalism breeds innovation!
Misread as Sekiro, was confused about sword fighting and watches, but interested.
Oh she’s sweet but she’s Seiko, a little bit Seiko
Same with Japanese Scotch whiskeys absolutely running the table on ones from Scotland in competitions.
That’s partly because “Scotch” is a protected label. You can only call a Whisky Scotch if it was distilled with a certain technique, from certain grains, by certain companies, and matured in certain casks for a certain amount of time. All of it is regulated.
Japanese whisky doesn’t have these limitations. They can just do whatever makes it taste good.
The Japanese distilleries are following all the rules. They are just doing it in Japan and better.
Scotch whisky must be made in Scotland. Similar story with bourbon, bourbon must be made in the United States. In many places you can follow the same recipes and processes as those products, but you may not label them with those terms.
Yes, but being made in Scotland isn’t enough to call your whisky Scotch. There’s a whole rulebook.
I’m an American, and we just don’t really buy into the whole “you must be from this region to be called this item”. All sparkling wine is champagne, all peaty whiskey is scotch, and all rice liqur is sake.
Yes, and being distilled and aged in Scotland are both rules in that rule book. Again, same for bourbon, not all American whiskies are eligible to be labeled as bourbon.
You can make whiskey, though. According to the EU, if you have a product distilled from grain mash and stored, at full undiluted strength, in wood casks for at least three years, you can call it whiskey. You can produce a Single Malt Whiskey, or a Rye Whiskey, anywhere you want and in fact some German Korn would qualify as whiskey as it’s aged long enough.
Side note: Whisky wasn’t always aged. Originally it pretty much resembled Korn (though German noses have some rather strict standards when it comes to fusel alcohols that Whisky and Vodka producers don’t tend to have), then the UK prohibition came along and distillers had no choice but to let the stuff age in its casks while they fought the legislation, then they were allowed to sell the aged stuff, aged much longer than was previously common, and the rest is history.
If it doesn’t come from loch ness it’s just sparkling whisky
To be fair, a crystal clock is just going to be more accurate than a movement based watch. Even the biggest watch fanboys admit that a $30 Seiko outperforms the majority of mechanicals on raw accuracy.
So… The existing market leader chose to flip the table instead of admitting that their position was weaker and lower value.
Yep, that sure sounds like the pursuit of capital instead of… innovation, quality, or any of the other attributes capitalism attempts to associate itself with.
The Neuchâtel Observatory is a publicly funded institution that certifies movements with high accuracy as chronometers. Not a private body, or a marketing tool used by a watchmaker. The same ‘competition’ is done by other observatories, all giving their own rating of a timepiece’s accuracy against a reference chronometer kept at the observatory.
A quick search could have brought you that information_ Quartz movements beat the pants off mechanical movements, and they’re far cheaper to make, allowing the non-rich to have a decent watch with good battery life and serious accuracy. Cheap and normal mechanical watches regularly drift and lose a few seconds time over days and weeks - quartz drifts between 1-110 seconds over a year.
They aren’t talking about quartz watches though. Seiko makes mechanical watches that were being compared to swiss mechanical watches costing way more.
Seiko makes mechanical watches that cost under $100 and are just as precise and long-lasting as a Swiss watch.
You’re probably thinking of Casio.Ahhhhh you’re right I mixed them up :/
So funnily enough, the very first movement they submitted to the contest in 1963 was a quartz, and it placed tenth overall. They went with mechanical movements for subsequent competitions, and didn’t actually start placing high again until 1966 when they placed ninth overall. In ‘67 they did even better, placing fourth, but then the contest was canceled for good the next year.
You’re right, but it’s understandable why the dairy industry shat themselves. They fucked up by allowing things to be named “oat milk” or “whatever milk”, so they damn sure aren’t going to let their “cheese” territory get encroached on.
The problem with restricting the use of the term “milk” is that people have been using the term “milk” to describe non-dairy liquids for longer than there have been trademarks. The word hasn’t ever been used exclusively to describe dairy.
Here’s a dictionary entry for “milk” from 1755:
https://johnsonsdictionaryonline.com/1755/milk_ns
Note that it includes almond and pistachio milks.
Milk of the poppy.
Milk of Magnesia
I could have never known this award even existed if not for this news. I don’t care at all for cheese and now I’m curious to try it.
Same
Holy shit, there’s a decent vegan cheese? I like my meat but I understand that the current status quo isn’t sustainable, and cheese is the number two thing the vegan industry has been struggling with making a good substitute for (number one being bacon.)
Yeah. I’m a vegetarian and the only things preventing me from being full vegan are cheese and ice cream. Once I can tackle those addictions, I’ll be very happy going full vegan.
Have I got a book for you - Artisan Vegan Cheese
I get the cheese argument, but the dairy-free ice cream these days is wild. Oatly, and a few others have some incredible offerings.
It’s been a few years since I tried any. Thanks for the suggestion!
The vegan market is thriving atm, go try!
I’ve had vegan ice cream before that was so much better than any ice cream I’ve had before but I don’t remember which brand it was and I’m so mad about it. It had this really nice chewy bouncy texture. So good vegan ice cream exists. Now if only I can find it again.
My local store had five different brands of mint chip vegan ice cream. I’ve still only tried two and I think they’re great.
I just wish the US government would shift subsidies from meat and dairy to alternatives. The modern stuff is very good, it just costs like twice as much! Last time I went grocery shopping, the oat milk was almost the same price as the cow milk, so I bought two gallons, because it also keeps much longer than cow milk.
Oh boy have I got an ice cream for you. wicked kitchen
That looks good! Thanks!
Yeah but it’s blue cheese
Blue cheese is a bit strong for most people, I can respect that, I’m one of those people. The trick is knowing what to pair with blue cheese to help balance it out a bit.
You want my recommendation for how to enjoy some store-bought blue cheese? Try it on a burger, with some sliced avocado instead of lettuce. The meat and the dense fruit balance out the blue beautifully, you get all the nice taste of a blue cheese without feeling like your mouth got nuked from orbit by smelly cheese.
It being strong is not the only reason it is disliked. Usually its the taste that people dont like
I also hate avocado.
I don’t hate it, I just don’t get it. It just tastes like plant.
A slice of pear might work. Or even apple but you’d have to fry it first
Avocado’s a silly thing to try to sell blue cheese to a blue cheese hater with anyway, it’s almost completely flavorless. What you want is a bright, tart fruit, like a strawberry or an apricot. The sugar and tang of the fruit kind of countersthe funkiness and complements the creaminess of the cheese. Could be fresh fruit or in a jam/compote or whatever. Throw that shit on a cracker and enjoy the ride! Or continue to hate it, lol, that’s also acceptable.
Or a fig! Figs are great with any flavourful cheese!
You’re a monster and you should feel bad.
The best kind next to feta
I love you.
Win win
If you skip the mass produced stuff, there are plenty of great naturally fermented plant-based cheeses. But in my experience it always feels like something is missing, which probably has to do with dairy’s addictiveness. How do you compete with drugs?
Better drugs. We need to start putting crack in the vegan cheese it’ll still be plant based after all.
psilocybe-infused artisinal almond cheese. 🧑🍳🤌
Cr…cregan?
Holy shit, there’s a decent vegan cheese?
Yeah, try the Follow Your Heart brand. I think the name is pretty cheesy (pun intended) and it usually costs more than common brands like Daiya, but it tastes significantly better and melts more like actual cheese.
Shredded cheese substitutes aren’t bad, especially if you plan on just melting it anyway. I’m not sure i would be willing to use vegan cheese on a cheese and cracker plate, but plenty of the stuff out there is suitable for melting on top of a sandwich, or in potatoes.
Get fucked, dairy farmers.
The dairy and meat lobbies are something else. It’s like smoking in the fifties.
It’s well established that there are serious health concerns when you consume animal produce (not to mention environmental and animal welfare ones), yet the industry keeps pushing back on plant-based alternatives.
I’ve heard of potential health issues from red meat consumption, but all animal products? That’s a first for me. Do you have any sources to share on this?
Technically it can’t be all animal products, since honey is about 98% sugar, and despite the hate campaign currently hitting carbs, sugar is not quite as harmful (in and of itself) as it’s made out to be.
But if we’re referring to all animal products in the sense of meat, dairy, and eggs - those three foods have nutritional properties that are all very similar and they do have some overlap in terms of health issues.
The biggest thing they have in common is being a package deal with high amounts of saturated fat and cholesterol. Heart disease is generally the industrialized world’s number one killer, and all three animal foods initiate the onset and progress the state of heart disease.
Then there are issues that are less settled, like to what degree do these foods cause various cancers?
And then this one is even more in need of further study, but there might be a link between these foods and autoimmune disorders.
https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/meat-bad-you-and-environment
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/processed-meat
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-about-dairy
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-with-eggs
I’m aware that there’s evidence of saturated fats having undesirable effects on your health. But plenty of meats are low in saturated fats (e.g. skinless chicken breast, or fish).
Relatively low if you compare it only to other meats or animal products. So while you can choose animal products that might progress these chronic metabolic diseases slower, you are still advancing them. But there are lots of factors that complicate things. For example the health impacts of animal products also depend on how you cook them, and what you eat them with. Cured meats are unanimously considered one of the worst things you can consume, right up there with smoking. Steamed fish would probably be about the least harmful (except that fish have some of the highest levels of bioaccumulated toxins and heavy metals). Actually, bugs are likely the least harmful, for those who are comfortable with that. Eating a source of fiber mitigates some of the harm from animal products as shown in this video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C08mqjMuwyY
Further complicating things is that single nutrients often behave differently depending on context. For example antioxidants other than some of the essential vitamins have never been shown to produce their purported effects outside of laboratory conditions, and some supplemented sources of antioxidants have even been shown to be a little harmful. But when we test the whole foods that contain those antioxidants, we get data like how increasing leafy green consumption has been correlated with a longer life expectancy.
And it’s similar for saturated fats and animal products. In the most established science on the matter you’ll see they don’t just talk about saturated fat alone - the science appears to show a relationship between the ratio of saturated and unsaturated fats consumed, particularly polyunsaturated fats. This book describes that science quite well-
https://www.redpenreviews.org/reviews/eat-drink-and-be-healthy/
But going back to that nutrients vs whole foods, there might be more than just the fats at play. This piece by Colin Campbell is a bit of a manifesto against nutritional reductionism, and suggests that the animal proteins themselves might play more of a role than we had thought:
https://nutritionstudies.org/is-saturated-fat-really-that-bad/
When you put whole diets to the test, what starts to become most consistent is how the most whole-plant-dominant diets by far achieve the most remarkable results. It’s apparent in the Adventist Health Studies, the Esselstyn Heart Disease Reversal diet, as well as Dean Ornishes full lifestyle intervention program. The latter two claim they can reverse heart disease, which is a controversial claim. More study is needed to prove whether that’s true or false, but regardless it’s still apparent that these fully plant-based dietary interventions do more than any others to restore people to good health.
And it’s a thing where science and personal experience match. If you check out the online whole-food plant-based support communities, you see people routinely report almost miraculous changes to their health and wellbeing in a matter of weeks or even days. It’s the kind of thing that once you experience it fully enough, you don’t want to go back.
https://adventisthealthstudy.org/studies/AHS-2/findings-lifestyle-diet-disease
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrative/esselstyn-program
Try watching the documentary “You are what you eat” on Netflix, it’s a good intro that covers the health risks of other animal products as well.
I don’t get much time to watch videos these days so I’m not going through the Netflix series. Though it looks like it’s based off this paper, and that I can look through.
They studied 22 pairs of twins, intervened by changing their diets so that one gets a vegan diet and the other an omnivore diet, then measured a bunch of stuff via blood and stool samples. I don’t see mention of how they correct for multiple hypotheses, but I’ll just give them the benefit of the doubt here.
They found statistical significance in two places
- LDL-C: Participants all start out in a healthy range, and they stay in a healthy range. So while the vegans improved on this measure, it also tells us that omnivores are perfectly healthy as well.
- Fasting insulin levels: Same as LDL-C. Start off healthy, ended up healthy. We see the vegans having lower fasting insulin, but we don’t know if that’s a good thing or not when they’re already starting at 12.7 μIU/mL.
So basically, the conclusion from the paper is that vegan and omnivore diets are both perfectly healthy, but you might gain slight benefits from going vegan.
Thanks for looking that up. I’m no dietician or medical expert myself, so I have to go by the more easily digestible media. That does run the risk of being more sensationalised.
One thing I did take away from the Netflix series was that both the omnivore diet and vegan one were designed to be well-balanced. Everything in moderation works well, I suppose.
Vegan blue cheese
So just the mold without the dairy? 🤔
The article suggests it’s bacteria creating the milk from plants rather than cows and then normal cheese past that
However the article also says the dairy industry wasn’t the one complaining about it
Ugh, It’s a little judgy and I actually like AI in some day-to-day search scenarios but instantly disappointed in the blue cheese company when this banner appeared across the top of their homepage. " Find out how AI is shaping the future of Food and how you can support the movement! " With links to join a mailing list.
Also, just an FYI, they aren’t selling the cheese to consumers yet, it’s only available in a handful of restaurants.
That is a specific day to day scenario that makes sense to me for AI - finding new combinations of flavors by following some machine learning recommendation, especially if the intended application is to use AI to discover better vegan cheeses
I don’t think you really even need AI (in the sense of LLMs, as that’s usually what’s referred to with AI) for a flavor pairing software whatchamacallit. I forget what the concept is called but I learned about it through the flavor matrix. Where you essentially compare the different aromatic and flavor compounds in a given food/ingredient and base recommendations off of other foods with compatible compounds in them. A large enough database and a good UI would be a gamechanger for cooking
They probably don’t mean an LLM in this case, but rather some combination of statistical methods for determining under-explored flavor combinations
Yeah, machine learning is going to be great for the protein revolution. For Qorn they had to run thousands of experiments to find something that tasted good. Imagine if you can model millions of experiments and already weed out 98% of proteins…
I’m not sure I get the mailing list part, but this is the type of task modern Machine Learning is actually great at (much better than they are at text or art generation). You have some huge open possibility space the humans can’t possibly explore all of, and where false negatives aren’t costly. You can use the model to narrow down the possibility space to something manageable for a human to review manually. Very similar to how its used in astrophysics, for example.
Anyone got the actual link to buy this cheese?
It’s not available yet, but here’s their home page.
Since it was actually disqualified for being made from an ingredient that’s not approved for human consumption by the FDA you might not want to buy it.
It was disqualified before the announcement was made. Dairy farmers didn’t even know it was going to win.
That’s not true. There’s no reason to believe kokum requires GRS certification since it’s been historically and widely consumed on the Indian subcontinent.
The FDA not yet giving it GRS approval is not the same as it not being approved for human consumption.
A substance used in food prior to January 1, 1958, may be generally recognized as safe through experience based on its common use in food when that use occurred exclusively or primarily outside of the United States if the information about the experience establishes that the substance is safe under the conditions of its intended use within the meaning of section 201(u) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act
While we’re at it, I need recommendations for decent Mozzarella, Parmesan, and Asiago with a melting point below 300F.
I make a lot of Focaccia stuffed with cheese and jalapenos, as well as pizza, but it would be nice to be able to serve a guilt free option to my more discerning guests.
Parmesan - Follow your heart (https://followyourheart.com/products/dairy-free-parmesan-shredded) It does take a bit but low and slow works for us.
Mozzarella (Try it before you dismiss it, I know its a WTF moment) - https://www.miyokos.com/products/pourable-plant-milk-mozzarella I kid you not the promo images of the pizza is actually how it ends up, melts great and blends well. I actually use it in my eggs and my Wife’s “JUST egg” as I cook them and it ends up being amazing.
Sorry I don’t have an Asiago for you. If you ever find one please let me know.
If you don’t mind a little extra effort, Miyoko Schinner (founder if that “Miyoko’s Creamery” brand) also has a book out - “Artisanal Vegan Cheese” with an excellent meltable (not pourable) soy yogurt based mozzarella recipe.
Ohh that sounds great! Thanks for the heads up!
A quick search: https://climax.bio/ and https://climax.bio/findus/
Looks like you gotta go to a restaurant to taste it. Meh. I just want some bean tacos when I’m back from work that have cheese in them.
Really limited information on the actual products. Zero ingredients information too.
So what is it called, so I can get some?
Edit: Climax Blue yes really
I mean, apparently it’s that good, so…
I guess vegan cheese has improved a whole lot since I last tried it.
Now if only they could make a vegan hot dog that didn’t taste god-awful…
I’ve definitely had some good hot dogs and brats. I don’t remember which stadium style hot dogs I’ve tried, but I usually go for some flavor of Field Roast.
Meh, blue cheese tastes more like mold than cheese, so I can see a vegan version being competitive when other vegan cheeses aren’t.
I wouldn’t go that far, but it does have a flavor that the fungus adds that other cheeses don’t. However, to win this award, it would have to be pretty indistinguishable from not just blue cheese, but top-of-the-line blue cheese, which is damn impressive for something without any dairy in it.
I’m curious what they can achieve with cheddar based on that.
Tried some vegan “feta” type cheese for my salad, based on cocos oil, and it was pretty bad. It had a terrible stink and taste like overripe cheese, which is kinda the opposite of what you’d expect from this type. It also became incredibly smeary immediately when I tried to crumble it, so it only mimics the original consistency when it is untouched.
The only vegan products that I’ve tried and liked so far were oat milk, which is pretty much tasting like regular milk at this point (at least my brand), some vegan Schnitzel which tastes not quite but close enough like those premade regular ones you’d get at a grocery store, and some “cut chicken” type stuff which honestly was pretty great in taste and consistency and definitely something I get again if I want to throw some mixed veggie bag into the pan. Everything else I’ve tried ranged from “meh” to “eugh”. But I’m sure it’s just a matter of more R&D.
Some of the Beyond and Impossible stuff I’ve had has been okay, but I’m not sure if they’re vegan.
I love using ground beef substitutes in meatloaf and shepards pie. Using ground flaxseed as a binding agent and coursely ground oats as breadcrumbs has made for some excellent dinner dates!
Tried a vegan ground meat from my local Lidl and it was easily one of the worst things. Terrible taste and smell, nothing like meat at all and my kitchen stank for weeks. Really put me off of a lot of those meat substitutes, especially since it was so highly praised.
What brand? Impossible and Beyond brands are pretty good (though you have to compensate for a lack of intrinsic oils when cooking).
Lentils make for a great meat replacement in a Shepard’s Pie. You adjust seasonings a bit, but at this point I might actually prefer it to regular ol’ Shepard’s Pie.
that beyond brauts are pretty good actually
I haven’t had those, but I’m waiting for a plant-based product that tastes like a good Nathan’s or Hebrew National.
Asking more for my own curiosity more than as a suggestion: Have you tried Field Roast frankfurters?
I liked hot dogs as a kid and I haven’t enjoyed any of the many smart dog etc ones, but the frankfurters are a staple for me.
I have not. I will look for them at some point.
Hot dogs and other sausages without meat will always be awful because the flavor and texture is what makes them work.
I am not a vegan or vegetarian. I absolutely love vegetarian and vegan dishes that are based on their ingredients doing their own thing.
I’m not convinced of that. At the end of the day, it’s a collection of mostly proteins arranged in certain ways plus water and salt. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that something like that can be replicated.
There is cartilage, fats, cell structure, and a ton of other things that make up the majority of meat that are extremely difficult to replicate for texture both when it is first cooked/heated/whatever and how it holds up as leftovers. Like different cuts of meat are basically the same parts but wildly different in taste and texture just like plants are basically the same except for all their differences.
Honestly I don’t get why so many people want a fake version of meat made out of plants when plants are pretty awesome on their own. grilled vegetables are fantastic! There are a ton of cultures with meals that are vegetarian or vegan and very complex in both flavor and texture because they played to the strengths of their available foods. Why bother with trying to make mediocre fake sausage when spring rolls exist?
I really like eating meat. It’s as simple as that.
If it convinces people who feel that it is necessary to have something that is a basic replacement for the meat that they eat to switch, which I believe it does sometimes, I think it makes sense.
Even convincing people to eat less meat and have a veggie burger once a week instead of a beef burger would be a good thing. It’s easier to convince them to do that than to have Nepali food.
Now I want to try Nepali food.
There’s a couple Nepali places near me. It’s basically the same as Indian.
I had some vegan cheese I got from a food pantry, that shot was top tier. I think it was called vialife?
Best quesadillas ever
