TL;DR
- Users who have rooted their phone, have their bootloader unlocked or are using some custom ROMs report that their RCS messages are not being sent, even though RCS shows them as connected.
- The Google Messages app does not show any error messages when blocking RCS messages of these users and does not send the messages out as SMS or MMS either.
- Google famously campaigned for Apple to include RCS messaging in iMessage but is now blocking it for certain Android users.
RCS can fuck off IMO
Lol, unexpected intensity. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
MMS is insecure, RCS is MMS on crack.
Google also won’t roll out RCS to Google Voice. They’re just as shit as everyone else.
It’s apparently the Google Messages app, not Android itself. Good to know.
it’s the only OEM-independent, RCS-compatible app for now, so it’s not like you can work around it by installing another client.
It suggests that apps without this problem can be developed, which means more paths to a workaround than if we had to modify the operating system.
Sure but specifically with RCS, Google has to allow devs to use it in their apps. And they won’t.
How is Google going to stop them?
Forbidding an app from the Play Store is unlikely to stop these users, who already use rooted devices and custom ROMs. They’ll just get an app from their ROM provider, F-Droid, or elsewhere.
Does RCS depend on Google services integrated with the mobile network operator? If Google tried to use that position to forbid alternative apps, it would seem likely to run afoul of the Digital Markets Act.
I don’t know a lot about RCS specifically, though. Is there another issue I haven’t considered?
Using RCS requires low level access to phone’s modem. You won’t get it on Android. Google is bypassing it’s own restriction by using proxy servers while having the deal with phone operators.
proxy servers
Interesting, can regular people do the same, e.g. through Twilio or similar? That is, can VOIP hosts who can handle SMS also handle RCS?
Edit: aha, for Twilio at least, yes they do: https://www.twilio.com/en-us/blog/omnichannel-messaging-rcs
You won’t get it on Android
Why do you say that? Custom ROMs already get low level access to the same hardware that official ROMs get. Is there some reason to think it would be different in this case?
This basically means adding the feature ourselfs and making our own build, not something we can name Android to give low level access to RCS in modem. This is feature we will just add.
Also on the side note, while in theory possible it will be a pain. We can’t just reinstall one package like modemmanger on typical Linux system, we must make a whole new builds for every device and apply patches again on every major Android update. While modem manufacturers do not even share documentation for them, just share a proprietary Android driver that should be in OEM system. So adding such feature means big reverse engeeniring, big effort for automatic patch and build system, all to support in my opinion already outdated and useless protocol which because it is already obsolete with standard XMPP or Matrix based apps.
How is Google going to stop them?
well, so far none of the third party SMS apps have implemented RCS support, and when asked, every developer replies that they need Google to open their standard for other clients to use, so I guess they’ve been doing a pretty good job at stopping everyone else.
Have they given a reason why the specifically not able to do it, or do they just not want to do it because it’s “unlicensed” or “out of spec” if it’s just the second option then it’s a problem of having unwilling people and not a real entry barrier.
If there’s an actual barrier to developing something like that it’s important to understand what it is.
Have they given a reason why the specifically not able to do it
yes, every time the reason given was Google not opening their API to the public.
I think after XMPP, Google Talk, Wave, Hangouts, Allo, etc… people should know better than to adopt a messaging service from Google.
Yes, I know RCS is theoretically an open standard, but if Google can keep me from using it, it effectively belongs to Google.
Theoretically? RCS is not an open standard. It requires a license from GSMA.
It’s worse than that. Carriers have a say as well. For example, Samsung messages works with RCS in some markets but US providers currently lock it out. They only allow Google messages for RCS. Absolutely infuriating.
XMPP was ok for its time
Not only for its time! While flawed, I still see it as probably the best middle ground for messaging. It has evolved since then, its servers are easy to host and it has a variety of clients that support e2e.
Yeah I was using ejabberd around 2006 to connect some high touch clients, and it certainly got the job done.
Yeah, but I think that most of the clients are a bit dated in UX otherwise. There isn’t really anything that I could suggest a friend to use
You’d think people would know better than to adopt anything from google.
It’s not like everyone has a choice in the say. Given that many schools and workplaces rely on Google for something
There is a difference between adopting, and being forced to use, you know.
Yeah hard to call it an open standard when there’s a single implementation that’s closed source and goes off of spec.
RCS is monopolised by Google. Theoretically open (“maybe, in the future, once it’s secure…”), but practically not.
Seriously. How many more chat apps from Google do we need to learn the lesson?
XMPP is not from Google. They just successfully pulled an EEE.
Good thing nobody uses sms to chat here where I live…
The bad thing is that Whatsapp is the alternative.
The thing is, RCS isn’t SMS. That’s kind of the point. RCS is a replacement for SMS. The two protocols just happen to be available in the same Messages app. It’s like sticking WhatsApp inside Messages, except it’s a different protocol.
Oh I get it, but well, my point still stands, nobody here uses the stock messaging app, which can send SMS.
Which is partly good, as iMessage is not predominant here either.
Same here… whatsapp became so widespread, that even governmental agencies and private businesses use it for official communication.
That is what blew my mind indeed, and as someone who hates constantly dialing companies and such for minor crap, I kinda am glad they went this way lol.
God, it’s like they don’t want RCS to succeed.
They want it to succeed. And they (Google with Apple) will be the only ones having to say who can send a message.
More like they need to have everyone use the app so that they can offer “AI Assistant” features through it.
RCS is just stupid. When I was still building phones a decade ago we had some operators ask for it - but after reading the standards decided to just ignore it and hope it passes. Pretty much everybody did that, until google got interested - presumably because they figured it’d be a good way to get control of messaging on a lower level. As that’s exactly what RCS is: control of messaging, and ideally the option to charge for it, just like SMS and MMS before that.
What’s really bizarre is that Google had the chance to be a dominant player in messaging when they made Hangouts the default SMS client on Android. Instead, they backpedaled and let Hangouts wither into obscurity. I’m mostly glad they screwed that up, but also puzzled.
Hangouts was the best thing going for a while there. Of course they had to goog it up.
I would go so far as to say Google Chat today is better than Google RCS.
Hangouts/Google Talk was great when they had federation and allowed 3rd party clients. After they locked that it went to shit.
I miss the golden age when we had AIM, ICQ, or GoogleTalk, etc all on the client of our choosing.
With UI decisions like the shortcut bar, they really don’t. I switched to another SMS app because I couldn’t stand it.
That other app? Cantstandya.
Quite ironic given that they cried because Apple didn’t adopt RCS on iOS, and now they make it less accessible themselves.
Ay yo, wtf
Any idea how long this has been going on? I have an unlocked bootloader but am running a standard upgrade version on my phone and it was never rooted. Some time in the last few months I started getting warnings that my texts weren’t going through and was asked if I wanted to switch to SMS… yeah ok I’d never heard of RCS before so yes please use SMS for all of my messages, and everything worked fine.
Supposedly this isn’t doing any warning or asking to fall back. The messages just fail silently. I’d root and use the play integrity hider magisk module.
Hmm ok, maybe not related then. I had no issues with going back to standard SMS, and if they won’t play by the rules then why should I care as long as I can text my family?
Privacy
Custom Android versions are not ROMs, they are OS’s
plural sucks though
Groups of multiple OS’s will henceforth be called OS’s’s (pronounced “oh-essessess”).
Oases?
Oh yesyesyesyesssssss 🥵
Removed by mod
And most flying things aren’t drones, they are radio controlled models, but you try getting people to stop using that term.
Android/Custom ROM is the name for them, even if it doesn’t mean what it should. It’s not that far off as that partition is usually set as read-only, so it kinda is a ROM.A carry over from the days of dumb phones when a phones software was still on a ROM
I’ve disabled it for now. Rooted phone is enormously more valuable to me than RCS that only half works right to begin with.
Yep. Sadly WhatsApp is the standard now… I’d like to go back to something neutral like SMS, but not if they pull this shit.
You can just install the PlayIntegrityFix module. It works again.
Google doing shit and it’s fine to circumvent it.
I was able to get RCS working again yesterday by updating to the latest version of Play Integrity Fix, but if that hadn’t worked, I would have disabled it and then probably switched over to Textra or Yatta for texting since RCS is basically the only thing keeping me on messages for texting.
I have it disabled anyways along with the Carrier Services app. Guess what: my battery life improved dramatically.
I knew it! I had the sneaking suspicion that this was the case. About a month ago I updated my phone to Android 14 (custom rom) and noticed I started having trouble with RCS after a couple days since the update. I knew I was going to lose the play integrity but whatever. RCS was nice but I will not bend… just pushing me a step further to de-googling my phone. Lol it’s funny how they cry to Apple about supporting RCS but yet refuse to allow third party apps or phones that don’t meet their requirements, pathetic. There should be an encrypted text communication standard that isn’t controlled by one company who can lock you out because you don’t have approved software, that is ridiculous. That being said, I wish Signal was still a SMS app.
There should be an encrypted text communication standard that isn’t controlled by one company who can lock you out because you don’t have approved software
XMPP + OMEMO
XMPP + OMEMO
also matrix
That too, but it is more resource-hungry to host (my biggest problem is that I have very limited storage and haven’t quite figured out how to disable media downloads from all rooms). But yea, indeed still an option.
In worst case, symlink image folder to /dev/null.
I think the conduite server should be very lightweight, secure and easy to set up. But it’s leaking video
Great example since Google essentially hijacked XMPP and took it into a fully-intentional nosedive.
Messaging layer security exists now, just a matter of implementing it for xmpp
Needs to be something like family is going to use you see. Which is why I liked what Signal had since it doubled as SMS.
You should have De googled a long time ago, they always pull this kind of shit
I agree but there’s 2 apps there is no good alternative for and they are paid, at least one of them I am learning Android studio + Kotlin to recreate it. The other I have found Wx which is OK but besides that there is no good advanced weather radar.
Can you not just acquire the apk?
Yea tried that already, one won’t work at all and one will stop working after sometime. I assume it still has something to do with google services. I have not tried with microg. Either way… I’ll get there to google-free land eventually its a work in progress. Sometimes I do consider just ripping off the band-aid and installing raw lineage os then learn to deal with it from there.
This just sounds like another “Google is slowing down Firefox” thing where everyone’s source was a reddit post and didn’t even turn out to be accurate
It didn’t? Last I heard google responded that it was an attempt to delay video loading for adblock users which seemed to most to be a transparent excuse. I haven’t followed it closely though, I’d be curious to know more if there’s an update
Verge article where the claim is due to ad blocker mitigation and not browser specific.
You said that you heard it was ad blocker related too. So the initial wave of reports about it being Firefox was inaccurate. Every article about it all sourced a singular reddit post. Just some social media “journalism”.
Anecdotally, which I understand is not a great measure, I didn’t experience this when it was first being reported on. But I pay for YouTube premium, so maybe that’s a difference too
No, it was a “bug” in windows that existed for way too many years
what’s the benefit of using RCS ? Is it the bubble colour BS?
Nobody who cares about RCS cares about the bubble color.
People who care about the bubble color are tech-illiterate Apple fanbois.
People who care about RCS care about being able to send high-resolution photos, group chats, and video calls with their tech-illiterate Apple fanboi friends and family in a default, common messaging app.
Also the non-fanboi Apple users, and the tech-literate Apple users, and the Android users. All in one default app and an open standard. Amazing.
open standard.
Which is why it’s such a mess. The RCS standard is defined by the GSM association, an organization with well over a thousand members. Want to add a feature to RCS? Prepare for years of bureaucracy trying to get the standard amended. Then 750+ mobile operators worldwide need to upgrade their systems, adding at least another few years.
Meanwhile when Apple wants to add a feature they can just roll it out in the next iOS release.
And that’s totally fine.
It runs over IP and it’s designed in a way that allows implementers to have their own adaptations within their walled garden, like End to End encryption in Google messages.
Also important to note that Apple is not discontinuing iMessage as a result of supporting RCS. In fact, if I were a betting man, I’d imagine that within the next 5-10 years, Apple will either be moving iMessage to RCS, or to some other common platform along with the rest of the industry. It’s just not going to be worth their effort to maintain and update iMessage while also maintaining compatibility with RCS. They may even make improvements to the standard that allow them to make more features within a walled garden.
iMessage is legit the only thing tying me to iPhone. My wife and her family just can’t be bothered to use any third party apps (except Facebook Messenger for a couple of them, and I downright refuse to use that). So, as we exchange pictures and video a lot, it’s just easier.
Apples real secret sauce is its tight vertical integration between software and hardware. Because they have full control over both, they can squeeze out a ton of optimizations for a very limited selection of hardware. How that software interacts further up the stack…I think Apple will eventually realize that that juice isn’t worth the squeeze.
Edit: proofreading and realizing that both the Apple puns were completely unintentional.
You forgot teenage girls and (apparently) dumb women on Tinder, but yes.
They did say Apple fanboys
No, iMessage is not compatible with RCS just yet. Messaging between an iPhone and Android is still SMS
It’s like SMS but with some lacking chat-like features added. No benefit compared to standard Internet chatting.
read receipts, security and larger file sizes
E2EE, unlimited attachment sizes, rich formatting, read/delivered notifications, reactions, group chat, stickers, a third-party app integration, stuff I’m forgetting about, and all part of the standard Messaging app.
E2EE
But only through Google’s RCS
Lol wtf 🤣🤣 then it’ll be 100% E2EE.
I don’t want to use their system anyways
