I ask this question because many anti-natalist points have in the last years gone mainstream and this includes the view that it’s unethical to bring a child into our current messed up world. I myself have had to battle with this view because me and my partner have wanted children since we were children ourselves and being challenged on that from a ethical perspective have forced us to really think about it closely.
When I think of my own birth I view of it as a very positive thing. I really can’t say life has been perfect or without troubles but I mostly enjoy life as it is both today and when I was younger, even with everything going on. So would I have chosen to be birthed again? I absolutely would! However this does not support myself having children because this could only rectify my own parents decision to have me. While I do know I have enjoyed my own life I can’t know in advance if my future children will enjoy life. The question is, will my own children born in the 2020s have liked to have been born?
This is of course an impossible question to answer since it requires predicting the future. I think 2015 was better than 2025. But how will 2035 be? How about 2100? My potential children will live so far into the future it’s incredibly hard to know if the world will be good or bad at the end, or even the middle of their lives. However if a life is not worth living it must be an absolutely horrific and torterous experience. Is that really where we are headed? Is it really gonna get THAT bad? Well that depends on how optimistic/pessimistic you are. No one actually knows what it is gonna be like.
There is one point however that I think is not discussed enough and that is about who are the ones having children? No this is not about the immigrants or muslims or whatever you have heard from the far right in regards to this. No this is about the fact that today if you are conservative, without a college degree and highly religious then you’re much more likely to have children. If all of us liberal and educated folks stop having kids what will the world look like? According to current projections the US will be majority amish by 2233. Is that the future we want? If conservatives and especially ultra-conservatives are the only ones having children then the liberal movement will have to be fighting an uphill battle if their only members are “converts” from those brought up in conservative households. That can’t end well can it? If I manage to raise reasonable and well brought up people, then that will improve the life quality of other people as well wouldn’t it? But at the same time I can’t expect my children to become future politicians who will save our decaying world. What are you all’s thoughts about this?
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Being a ghost would be amazing, imagine being able to exist anywhere, for free. Imagine getting to stalk world leaders and unravel all of the secrets.
If I could flip a switch and cease to exist I would
If you intend to have kids, immigrate first (assuming you’re in the US). There are places in the world where future children can grow to lead happy lives, but America ain’t it anymore. To answer your question though: Yeah, I am happy to have been born.
If the amish take over and they all live as amish then no one will be making the modern things that allow for longer lifespans and children surviving. More than likely many amish kids will not follow the lifestyle. Same with all other conservatives and some educated liberal folk will have kids that grow up to be dumbfucks. ted kennedy much. I never thought of it from if I would choose to be birthed. I more looked at it as how would I like to have children who can’t get an education and had no opportunities on a dying planet that might have to live without democracy. Personally I like existing but do not like the world im existing in. Admittedly its because of the downward trend we have been in most of my life. It is seeing the potential of where the world was going and living the worse trajectory we moved to. Would I choose to be born? It depends on the circumstance. So if we are talking just me in a vaccum. Then I would choose to be born but if it was part of the world population leveling off at a number a bit before I was born? Then I would certainly choose to not be born for such a boon to the world. Same if any significant trade of could be made. Anything to have a sustainable progressive world or even a decent chance at one.
I’m glad I was born, if for no other reason than being able to lay my father to rest. He was a good man. I do enjoy life, though, and I work hard to ensure that the world is better because I’m in it.
I chose to not have children of my own because I personally could not give them the life a child deserves, but I admire my friends who did have children and are raising them into kind, compassionate people - The world will belong to their generation someday, afterall.
My own birth was not a good thing for me and keeps getting worse.
I definitely would not be ok being born in the current state of the world… Or México, if we are talking locally.idr
If given the choice I’d prefer now over the past. Merely because of my health issues. It was actually pretty awesome exploring early “high-speed” internet.
Having kids is always an act of selfishness. You don’t do it because you are trying to ‘gift’ life to the child. You do it because you think it will make you happy. Look at your reasons.
“me and my partner have wanted children since we were children” There’s your reason. You have the biological imperative. You want your genetics to continue.
" if a life is not worth living it must be an absolutely horrific and torterous experience." That’s life. ‘Worth’ is purely subjective. Objectively, life is worthless. If you have the right genetics and circumstances, you can ignore this fact, but it’s always there.
“If all of us liberal and educated folks stop having kids what will the world look like?” This is just the ideological version of the biological imperative, the idea of ‘my ideas must be passed down’ instead of ‘my genes.’ But it is based on faulty assumptions. It assumes your kids wouldn’t become fascists just because you aren’t. It assumes the children of members of a political party will automatically join the same one when they grow up. Why would you assume this? Do you have the same views as your parents? Grandparents?
If you want to have your kids, go ahead, but don’t delude yourself that it’s your gift to the leftist cause or to the child. It’s a way to scratch your biological itch to be a parent, just as much as masturbation and sex.
For me, I don’t see my birth as good. If I think about my parents lives, any happy moment with me can just as easy have been a happy moment for them for a different reason. Then from there I’ve just been a hefty financial and emotional burden. Same goes for other family members. I don’t really have any close friends so I don’t think I’m having much impact there. My job isn’t some massive boon to society. My partner is the only person I think might be worse off, but even then I still think she could be doing better.
I know dying now would definitely hurt everyone, so I’m not suicidal. But when I’m getting hit hard with those negative thoughts, they’re almost always wishing I just hadn’t been born.
Bold of you to assume I was born and didn’t appear fully-formed from the forehead of Zeus.
no but like
For me personally, absolutely not. I genuinely believe that the world would have been better off without my existence disrupting the natural order.
But, as another comment has said, you go off of the hand you are dealt. If you believe that you have both the resources and the correct mentality to bring new children into the world and raise them, then absolutely do it. The fact that you’re thinking about it this much is already a great sign, as most parents I’ve known just don’t think or care and just randomly have babies, and then are constantly frustrated with the children afterwards. Just be really sure it’s what you want for the rest of your life.I genuinely believe that the world would have been better off without my existence disrupting the natural order.
- How was your birth “unnatural” (by inference of your wording)?
- Since you’re still alive, then is this no longer the case? Obviously I’m not condoning your death, but by deduction then this should be “believed” at one point and no longer now—unless you mean that you think you’re actively choosing to be selfish by continuing to live, I suppose.
- I was moreso referring to my actual ‘being’ as unnatural, as I have a collection of disorders and oddities that make me unable to fit into society and just feel like a burden more than anything else. My wording isn’t the best here.
- I kind of wish that were the case, but it’s mostly the opposite. I’m still alive because I wish to help out my friends as much as I can before I go, but also I’m a coward and don’t really have the luxury of ending things early. I have debts to pay and sometimes I’m in the position where I can lend a helping hand, so that’s at least something. But no, I wish that I could go, but I cannot.
You play the hand you are dealt.
We are only here because a long unbroken line of ancestors were successful in reproducing, even in adverse conditions
Of course that’s true. However what is the conclusions of this? Should our long unbroken line of ancestors who reproduced end or should it continue? That’s the big question of it all.
That is up to you!
Evolution has selected for people who want to continue, those who are happy to fade away don’t stay in the gene pool.
I have five kids. Three of them step and two natural. Hasn’t always been easy for them or us, but I wouldn’t change a thing.
That being said, I’m not sure a lower birth rate isn’t a good thing. If folks don’t want kids for whatever reason, that’s fine, too. Just don’t impose those viewpoints on others.
I do think the hard religious/trad wife/have a dozen kids thing is pretty evil, but that separate from just having kids. My oldest daughter will be having a baby this summer and I think they are only having one, and we very much support both decisions (to have one and not to have any more).
I dont think people impose so much as believe people who end up with children are often irresponsible or have selfish reasons to use their children for their own profit or other selfish ego-based reasons.
Enough people have the 18 and your out on your ass into the orphan crushing machine attitude which is not great either. Life is fucking hard and ir sucks that people with no parenting skills or empathy are the ones who tend to throw caution to the wind and do whateve they want all the time
Similar boat here, but I brought three kids and my wife brought two.
The oldest will finish college next year, and the next two oldest will be graduating from high school at the same time.
Right now, none of them seem interested in ever having kids. Maybe it’s a generational change, maybe it’s individual, because even as a kid, I looked forward to growing up and having kids of my own.
