The US is supporting Israel through what we can mostly all agree is a genocide of the Gazans. Clearly, Biden isn’t a genocidal maniac, yet he’s all in with unwavering support. Why are we doing this? There has to be a logical reason that isn’t just “we want Israel to kill everyone in Gaza and take their land a la lebensraum.”
We know this is an emotional topic, so please be respectful of each other so that we can have open and clear authentic discussion on the matter.
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Israel’s an ally and America doesn’t exactly have the moral high ground to stand on cutting off israel for terror bombing civlians in the middle east.
More practically, Biden seems to think he can negotiate more from israel by playing at being on their side in this conflict than by joining the international condemnation against them, and to his credit he has achieved concessions from israel in the hypothetical post war, and managed hostage swaps between israel and hamas.
Lastly there’s the old saying about never letting a good crisis go to waste, the houthis have gone and made absolute asses of themselves with their red sea blockade over this war, and the US and KSA MICs are both explosively orgasmic at the campaign against them going from being labelled a humanitarian disaster to suddenly being a borderline service to the international community.
The longer Israel keeps it up, the longer the Houthis keep making everyone hate them, the longer MBS has to wipe what he sees as one of his biggest security threats off the map without catching flak from most of the international community. You could almost argue that Israel and KSA are passing the “everyone hates us!” ball back and forth to cover for each other’s designs on complete subjugation of their immediate neighbors.
Hypothetical concessions.
Pray I don’t alter it any farther
The reason I say hypothetical is because they’re conditioned on Fatah taking over
So basically Israel agreed to it under the pretense that they’d still get to wipe out Hamas
They want an ally in the middle east? A bunch of countries in that area don’t like them.
Israel is an ally in the middle east, the only one who does what the US says whenever they say it.
spits out coffee
Israel does what they want.
Their interests align with ours more often than, say, Syria, but they are not a puppet state. Israel tells US foreign policy to go fuck itself sideways on a regular basis.
Interesting, What are some examples of this?
The answer is simple and almost no one gets it: The U.S. will NEVER give up a military foothold in the middle east. They will ignore every atrocity Israel commits if it means we have a place to sortie from.
That’s it.
It’s not a religious conspiracy, it’s not about back room money deals.
It’s about military power and our ability to strike anywhere in the world with 2 hours notice.
The U.S. will NEVER give up a military foothold in the middle east.
They will, only once all the oil’s been extracted, which will take some decades yet.
While it’s not a religious conspiracy, there is plenty of religious support from certain christian denominations, on the USA and other countries, because of some weird interpretation of the bible about Israelis getting their “promised land” back.
It’s not only about oil. I mean sure, some of it is but even without oil they’d want military access simply because of how much a hotspot it is.
I already told you this has nothing to do with religion and the fact you believe this means your sources aren’t trustworthy.
Oh, you mean that people who use religion to preach support for isreal aren’t real? The pastors in my country that do that during the cults and on TV must be a figment of my imagination, then!
And exactly what kind of impact do you think those religious nuts have on our top military brass’s positions?
I find it funny that you moved the goalposts so readily. I don’t have time for intellectually dishonest people.
This is the most simple answer and the truth. Not only that, but our hands are generally tied to a fault when it comes to these allies. This is why Biden has had some words to say, but there’s no actual teeth to them. He literally can’t do shit. Any other administration would be the same.
No he CAN do something, he can say fuck you, and let someone else run while he does the right thing regardless of the cost to his career
It wouldn’t be the cost to his career, it would be the loss of military access to the most volatile place on the planet.
Do you even bother understanding the concepts you comment on?
We have other bases in the Middle East, we don’t need them for a foothold.
We can walk in, whip our dick out and ask who wants to be our new friend and under our protection.
Israel is ignoring us anyway so I see no harm.
Fall in line or fuck around and find out when we allow them to be outlaws and retract our protection.
Sends a message while we are at it.
… there is literally no military strategist in our armed forces that agree with your assessment.
Please don’t mistake your wikipedia education for a nuanced and in-depth understanding.
Because they have no intention of changing anything why would they look for another way?
They all keep getting rich off backroom deals with weapon companies
Well, Trump might do something because he’s willing to break any and all precedents … but the something he does would likely be much worse, impulsive, and generally lacking much forethought.
Yeah but that won’t prevent every fuckdamn armchair admiral from weighing in with their wikipedia based knowledge.
The problem is that those trolls are significantly out-shouting the truth.
Because while “what we can mostly all agree” to that, Biden does not think that Israel is engaged in genocide.
Just because a group of people perceive something to be the absolute truth, doesn’t mean everyone interpret reality the same way.
Strategic military foothold in the Middle East.
Because Israel helped the US a ton during the cold war. Mossad are pretty good at what they do, and what they did a lot of was spying on Moscow.
Except when it comes to defending their own country from their technologically inferior neighbor.
Israel wants to kill everyone in
Gazathe Middle East and take their land a la Lebensraum. (They want to take Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt too (and even Turkey))America wants to control the middle east so they can control the oil.
Our entire modern society revolves around oil.
We don’t, our government it’s
The jews are very influential in the US. Dollar. Jeffrey Epstein. Medias. On the other hand a lot of crazy Christians, who want to believe their story of the “holy land”. Useful idiots. A monotheistic tragedy with a such called loving god and a lot of blood and gore. Perhaps they love it subconsciously?
How does this piece of shit’s comments stick and you delete everything I post. Fuck Lemmy and fuck you mods you racist dicks for leaving this crap up all the time.
Which Jews?
I assume we are to read it as (((the Jews))).
Trying to give homey benefit of the doubt (with enough rope). Thanks for reminding me to send my daily ping.
Which Jews?
The ones with money. The ordinary people can just be brushed aside.
https://www.aipac.org/ is an influential lobbying organization. Your elected leaders listen to influential lobbying organizations.
Money
The simplest and most concise answer.
We also like to support the only democracy in the middle East. But yeah, mostly money / self interest.
1 trillion dollars and countless American lives to bring democracy to Iraq, and people still trotting out the “Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East” line.
I am more curious as to why these completely legal (non rule breaking or trolling comments) are being deleted by lemmy moderation. My app shows removed comments.
If you think you are seeing what people really think of the conflict on this site, you are not. Agendas are being pushed
It was getting a bit too based. People are stating to realize that there is very little difference between israel and the Nazi’s expanding their Lebensraum.
After that, you ask the question if fighting back against Nazi’s is justified, but answering that is not allowed yet.
Sorry I’m really bad at reading between the lines, what’s the agenda being pushed?
We need more transparency and community engagement. I think instead of someone being banned or their comment being removed, it should go up for a vote between a random selection of users.
Sort of like the criminal justice system. Be judged by a jury of your peers. Not just some arbitrary official who decides your fate and you have zero recourse.
Because Isreal is a leading military power in the Middle East. They are Western in most of their views and the US can deal with them. You can’t say the same about any of the other Middle Eastern nations.
Israel is coming down hard on Gaza and Hamas to make an example of them. They are going to send that strip back to the Stone Age. This operation is a statement, “this is what happens when you fuck with us. “
No other Middle Eastern powers give a shit about Gaza. They make noises to appease their populations. But no other Nation has offered direct military assistance or action.
In short it would be stupid to drop Israel as an ally over this.
God forbid we stop calling someone an ally when they kill 20,000 people in less than 6 months
Morality doesn’t exist on the scale of nations.
Look, I agree that Isreal needs to do more to protect Gazan citizens. And to deal with the present situation you need to ignore about 2000 years of history. With that said, when your neighbor is a terrorist group with the EXPLICIT AIM of eradicating the state of Israel, and they launch indiscriminate terrorist attacks on you, and deliberately hide among civilian populations to maximize casualties, what are your options except a land invasion to remove them from power, even though you know there will be civilian deaths?
War always has civilian deaths. It’s an unfortunate consequence.
This is different. Gaza is being flattened by the indiscriminate bombing. Its ridiculous.
It’s not ridiculous. It’s the point. Lives are the currency. Hamas has one value Israel has another. The exchange rate is far from even.
The US supports plenty of fucked up countries because we gain something from them. In the same way Saudi Arabia supplies us oil, Israel provides an American stronghold in the middle east to operate out of. With the political importance and violent instability of the middle east the US finds Israel a necessity to its ambitions.
Let’s be honest, there’s a shit ton of money involved as well. From campaign donations to the military industrial complex, people are getting paid by Israel and jewish persons. They have a powerful lobby and influential people around the nation.
Also worth noting Israel is very advanced with respect to cybersecurity. Considering they provide tools like Pegasus to US intelligence agencies, I’m sure the agencies value this relationship very much.
Oh and Prilosec is made in Israel I believe.
