The US is supporting Israel through what we can mostly all agree is a genocide of the Gazans. Clearly, Biden isn’t a genocidal maniac, yet he’s all in with unwavering support. Why are we doing this? There has to be a logical reason that isn’t just “we want Israel to kill everyone in Gaza and take their land a la lebensraum.”
We know this is an emotional topic, so please be respectful of each other so that we can have open and clear authentic discussion on the matter.
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I am more curious as to why these completely legal (non rule breaking or trolling comments) are being deleted by lemmy moderation. My app shows removed comments.
If you think you are seeing what people really think of the conflict on this site, you are not. Agendas are being pushed
It was getting a bit too based. People are stating to realize that there is very little difference between israel and the Nazi’s expanding their Lebensraum.
After that, you ask the question if fighting back against Nazi’s is justified, but answering that is not allowed yet.
We need more transparency and community engagement. I think instead of someone being banned or their comment being removed, it should go up for a vote between a random selection of users.
Sort of like the criminal justice system. Be judged by a jury of your peers. Not just some arbitrary official who decides your fate and you have zero recourse.
Sorry I’m really bad at reading between the lines, what’s the agenda being pushed?
Removed by mod
+Palestinians are not as white and a religious minority on top of it
That and Israel wouldn’t hesitate a second before switching sides and allying with Russia and/or China.
Read a lot of answers and yours is succinct.
Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security.
~ Alexander Haig
critical region for American national security.
The rest was true but this one is complete BS
It also allows Israel and other relugional institutions to influence US politics.
Who is the hegemon, the vassal or the collector?
And the US wants a foothold in the middle east because oil.
Well, that and keeping
the USSRRussia and China outRemoved by mod
Also oil.
Yes, the US wants that foothold because of oil. It’s not because we wish to become rich off it, it’s because oil is essential to keeping our economy stable. Keeping the region stable, or at least “stable” in America’s best interests, is paramount.
Doesn’t matter what anyone’s opinion on our oil consumption is, even in the face of global warming. At this point in time, we need it.
Without oil our economy plummets and that affects the whole world. And we can’t fix it anytime soon. I’m seeing hope, but it’s painfully slow. FFS, trying to fix this mess bucks the richest interests on the planet. And if we guillotined every one of them, we’d still be in the same place.
I see a lot of talk around here calling talk of the “economy” bullshit, like those numbers only affect the rich, and fuck 'em. Like it or not, we all participate in the economy.
In turn, we’re all hurt if it crashes. And that includes the rest of the world. Anyone here old enough to remember the gas station lines after the Iranian revolution?
And spare me talk of coulda/shoula/woulda. America could have done a dozen things better to avoid all this. We didn’t. And here we are.
In case you didn’t notice, many people are in the middle of the crash right now. So yeah, it’s going to suck for everyone, but what are the alternatives?
Strategic military foothold in the Middle East.
The jews are very influential in the US. Dollar. Jeffrey Epstein. Medias. On the other hand a lot of crazy Christians, who want to believe their story of the “holy land”. Useful idiots. A monotheistic tragedy with a such called loving god and a lot of blood and gore. Perhaps they love it subconsciously?
Which Jews?
I assume we are to read it as (((the Jews))).
Trying to give homey benefit of the doubt (with enough rope). Thanks for reminding me to send my daily ping.
How does this piece of shit’s comments stick and you delete everything I post. Fuck Lemmy and fuck you mods you racist dicks for leaving this crap up all the time.
Which Jews?
The ones with money. The ordinary people can just be brushed aside.
Racism.
You can see that by how American politicians go on and on about Israel being a “Jewish Nation”, a characteristic that is wholly unimportant unless ones is a racist.
Since WWII and what was done to Jews (and not only them: there is this “strange” forgetfulness that for example the Roma were also being exterminated) by the German racists that, even though the racism itself never died, Jews became “one of us” for the racists in many countries with a predominant white majority (in other words, they’re considered just another kind of “white”).
Israel itself seems to have invested a lot into portraying itself as a “Western Nation” to further entrench and capitalize on that “one of us” perception in Western nations,
Palestinians, on the other hand are seen by the racists as “muslims” and as some call it “brown people”, with quite a lot of nasty prejudices associated with both characteristics.
For the racists this is an “people like us” vs “them” fight, hence why even very over racist statement of the Israelis like calling Palestinians “human animals” don’t shock them (the racists probably think the same) and hence too the vastly different reaction from how the invasion of Ukraine by Russia was seen, since that one from a racist point of view was “people like us” vs “people like us”.
This, by the way, also explains Germany’s behaviour on this: the Nazis might have been kicked out of power there but that very “special” way of looking at other human beings as primarily members of an etnicity and “like us” or “not like us” has never left, so Israel gets unwavering support no matter what since they’re “a Jewish Nation” (notice how it’s people etnicity that determines if support is given).
They have historic ties and Israel is an important strategic ally in the middle east for the US.
Money.
As a US citizen, I really wish we wouldn’t. I know a lot of us are against it too.
Thank god you’re are in inconsequential but very vocal minority.
I really don’t think we are a minority.
If it looks like a genocidal maniac, and it quacks like a genocidal maniac…
HAMAS, Hezbollah, Houthis, Islamic Jihad, Ayatollah Khamenei, Putin, Xi Jingping… anyone? Literally genocidal maniacs with openly hateful plans and views on the world.
Western powers support Israel because they Middle East is a strategically important region and Western powers have exactly one reliable partner there. I mean, look at what the House of Saud can get away with just for being a semi-reliable partner.
And let’s not forget ol Saddam in the 80s
How exactly is Israel reliable when they do whatever they want regardless of western powers?
6 day war proved that Israel is not only an ideal staging ground but can basically just go out and kick the entire neighborhood’s ass all on their own, so having them on side for an actual throwdown in the region is seen as incredibly valuable for NATO war gamers considering hypothetical wars with Iran or even Russia if they decide to step too far over their side of the caucuses.
So long as they control their turf absolutely, and will attack whatever they’re pointed at, not attacking what they aren’t is seen as less of a problem
kick the entire neighborhood’s ass all on their own
people actually believe this shit. 🤦♂️
israel has always, since its inception has been propped up by western powers. Just because you don’t see them hoisting up a different flag than their own, doesn’t mean they are fighting anyone alone.
This is like US boasting they alone kicked the british out without any assistance.
Sending them weapons isn’t propping them up quite the same way the US got the assist from France Spain and the Netherlands, n’or were the arab states the same kind of comparative force that the brits were to the colonists, also Israel was initially a Soviet ally before the suez crisis.
Also, saying it doesn’t count because Israel bought an overwhelming kit advantage is like saying Cannae didn’t count because Hannibal “cheated” by facing off with the Romans so they’d be facing into a dust storm.
Don’t discount the fact that Israel supported us in every way when 9/11 happened. I firmly believe every favor is being called in at this point.
Yeah, supported the US by knowing about the attacks and celebrating with photos on Sept 10th and having Bush and Ashcroft fly the mossad agents back to Israel.
Israel is no friend. The last time a US naval ship was attacked and destroyed was USS Liberty
So did China and Russia
I think this issue is also more nuanced than you’ll see it given credit for in the media.
I think there’s some strong “War in Iraq” parallels that can be drawn that might help reflect why the US is reacting the way they are.
To summarize, small group of terrorists commit an attack that is one of the worst in the nations history. This country that was attacked has a much better funded military, and they roll in to exact retribution, notionally under the banner of “stopping the people who did this and not letting it happen again.” The war of revenge is hugely detrimental to the civilian population therein, and human rights violations occur.
Most establishment politicians were/are fully on board with the War in Iraq. Why wouldn’t they be on board with Israel right now? It’s basically the same situation again.
I think that a lot of what you see online forgets that this wasn’t some random thing where Israel just decided to commit a genocide out of nowhere. But just like how 9/11 didn’t justify the War in Iraq, 10/7 doesn’t justify what’s happening now. But it’s somewhat understandable why it’s happening, and why people support it.
I remember right after 9/11, the vast majority of people were on board with sending troops in. The dissenters were super few and far between. This is just that again, but Israel this time.
Understand this, all reading this thread, though:
The DarkHexad of human-evil’s dimensions, is:
- Narcissism
- Machiavellianism
- Sociopathy ( mentally/experientially induced ) / Psychopathy ( intrinsic defective mirror-neurons function, NO empathy, NO other is “human” )
- Nihilism
- Sadism
- SystemicDishonesty
The more abused some population is, the more they become embedded in DarkHexad mind/meaning.
Hamas went nihilist.
They knew that Israel’d commit to genociding all Palestinians, to all the extent they could, and that’s why they did the attack.
Israel’s now is demonstrating its nihilism/sadism so blatently that their “deterrent” is being permanently corroded-away:
Within a few years, the surrounding Muslim region won’t care how much damage/violence Israel does to them while they’re annihilating Israel, they’ll HAVE TO annihilate Israel, at ANY cost.
Israel’s guaranteeing its own within-decade annihilation.
Exactly as Hamas’ ( either unconsciously or consciously ) strategy determined.
Israel walked into the trap, they ate the bait.
2 millenia ago, the ONLY Jew in the world that no Zionist would tolerate to have any validity, Yehoshua “Jesus” benJoseph, warned that when the abomination Daniel spoke-of was becoming real, that Israel would be annihilated.
( Matt 24, iirc … here, I dug it up, just in case anybody wants to read the actual text: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt+24%3A15-22&version=AMPC )
Perfect & correct warning.
Within 1 decade, Israel’s going to be annihilated, exactly as benJoseph warned, and the Zionists, themselves, are the ones enforcing that no alternative-future can happen.
Comical, really: one’s-own ideology/prejudice absolutely determining one’s fate, in a way that makes one’s most-hated-individual proven-right.
“Deterrent” only works when the ones hating your life are hesitating because of their aversion to the harm you can do them.
Israel’s not going to have any “deterrent” soon.
And they’re too ideology/prejudice rabid to know that simple human-nature meaning.
When, in a decade, perhaps less, Israel’s been annihilated, how is the rest of the Middle East, now committed/allied with BRICS, going to tilt the world’s geopolitical table?
No matter: Trump’s already said he’ll “delete” the constitution, leave NATO, back Russia, create crime in Washington DC, be dictator, & “MAGA”, right?
That is going to happen, unfortunately, and the incompetence of the Biden-institution is playing directly into handing the entire US into Trump-cult’s hands.
The economic rug-pull that they’re delaying can’t be held-back forever, either.
Backlash-vote always torpedoes the incumbents, in that situation.
It doesn’t even matter if legalism “prohibits” Trump becoming GEOTUS, now: legalists ignore all the letter-of-the-law that contradicts their intention, …
… and that is sooo traditional for legalists that benJoseph railed against their doing that 2 millenia ago.
Something like “you who hold the letter-of-the-law rules, who ignore even 1 part, are guilty of ALL”, iirc.
That is exactly the nature of the legalism of nowadays.
The real game going-on is that human-unconscious-ignorance is trying to enforce a simplistic “mythic” “importance” through global tantrum/pogrom.
And arguing with humanity’s unconscious-toddler … requires a bit of rather-brutal experience-induced-understanding enforcement, and that isn’t going to happen until “armageddon” has beaten that understanding into our unconscious.
The Great Filter.
Won’t-grow-up is the most-fundamental religion, in our unconscious.
_ /\ _
Iraq didn’t have anything to do with 9-11. I think you mean Afghanistan.
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct. :)
I was using “The War in Iraq” as a cover term for the whole ongoing conflict that arose in the aftermath of 9/11.
I think that your point actually furthers my parallel though. As the US was in Afghanistan, the Bush Administration’s obsession with Iraq ended up with them pushing questionable Intel that there were Al Queda controlled WMDs in Iraq, and that we had to invade there as well if we really wanted to win the war.
There’s a pretty clear parallel between that logic and the “Hamas Tunnels” arguments we’re hearing out of Israel at the moment.
One day they will release the full uncut and unedited videos of the tunnels so we can see where they all started, ran, and ended.
Probably any day now with how good the deepfakes are getting
About 30% of it is the end of the world cult that believes that for Jesus to come back to take them Israel must exist.
The rest is just the usual reasons they love bombing the middle east.
What should we do? Hamas kidnapped a bunch of people and is still holding them hostage. Hamas has been launching missiles at civilians for decades now.
Israel is not without guilt, but the everyone else [with any power] is at least as bad.
There are no good answers. All options are bad. The only question is what is the least bad, and that seems to be supporting Israel while putting pressure on them to stop settlements and be careful about non-Hamas civilians. Not a good option, but the is nothing else that is better. (including walking away from the whole region)
So give them everything they want, while their government continues to admit they have no intention of listening to the us?
Fuck that, bring all of our ships back and let Israel get what they paid for.
Hamas didn’t flatten an Israeli city with bombs. They didn’t starved population, killed journalists and bombed hospitals.
Israel is on the verge of genocide here. War crimes are obvious.
Even 1000 hostages don’t warrant 10000 deaths. And Israel is far, far beyond 10k kills in Gaza now.
What should you do? Maybe start to consider the people in Gaza like human being for a start.
HAMAS continues to strike civilians in Israel every day, Hamas did 7th of October, a terror attack equivalent to 17 whole 9/11s, Hamas still holds hundreds of hostages. Genocide of the Jews is still their main agenda.
Oh shit they killed 14000 people on 10/7? I missed that
How many killed? I’m not defending the hamas BTW. But supporting Israel is exactly like supporting Russia in Ukraine.
How are they in any way the same? Russia attacked Ukraine with no provocation, Hamas committed terrorist atrocities and Israel are responding. Yes, they aren’t taking nearly enough care to prevent civilian deaths, but there is some attempt to do so - Hamas deliberately targeted civilians including beheading and oven cooking babies.
This is not the same at all. Also Hamas deliberately base themselves in schools, hospitals and residential buildings using Palestinians as a human shield.
How many killed?
By turning this into a numbers game (as if one human life lost isn’t too many) you are defending Hamas.
Oh shit!
Here we go with those 40 decapitated babies again.
Y’know I hear Israelis fill their menorahs with Palestinian infant’s blood on Hanukkah
You don’t believe that Hamas killed babies? Or targeted civilians? Or raped women?
I can believe all of that, what I don’t believe is them deliberately decapitating babies or baking them.
It’s really easy to throw extra vicious complaints about someone and then back way off and say “Oh, you don’t believe they were doing these other lesser things either.”
It’s very disingenuous and shows that they don’t actually believe their claims, but that they are trying to conflate the two to confuse people.
That isn’t what you’re doing is it?
I’d defend hamas every day of the weak if it’s what it takes to fight fascism and genocide. But I’m not. You are defending fascism and genocide though. Israel killed 10 times more civilians than hamas, and numbers are still counting.
You are the one defending terrorism here. Not me. Get your logic straight.
Israel got attacked by terrorists, Israel is now trying to kill those terrorists.
That’s about it, really.
…and is indiscriminately killing civilians in the process.
The babies are hummus!
The toddlers are hummus!
The trailer full of flour, the girl trapped in the car, the people in the DESIGNATED SAFE ZONES?
All hummus
I will say what, said in another comment:
- Israel stealing land since 1948.
- Israel displacing 750 000 Palestinians in 1948.
- Israel purposefully starving Palestinians.
- Israel having Apartheid for decades upon decades.
- The fact Hamas only exists due to Israel’s actions (1948 and Hamas made in 1987).
- Israel Ethnic Cleansing.
- Israel murdering more than 20 000 Palestinian people in the name of “self defense”.
- Israel continuously lying about important things (example the calendar picture, claiming it was something important about Hamas but it was just an Arabic calendar and the 40 babies claim).
- Israel saying they want to drop an atomic bomb on Gaza (normal civilians!!!)
- Israel calling normal civilians “animals”
Or do you call it peace when Israel do illegal settlements in the Westbank, prison Palestinians, Apartheid and ridicule Palestinians for no reasons.
In that sense you can say; Israel is a terrorist state in the eyes of the Palestinians.
Stop pretending that it started on 7 oct. It never started at that date. It didn’t even start in 1948 but that’s the moment when Israel stole the majority of the land (the Nakba).
I don’t agree with what Hamas did but after being driven out their land, homes, ridiculed, murdered. Apartheid. It is understandable at one point some lose their sanity and will have only hatred in their hearts.
Do realize they lost everything they ever cared for. Land stolen, homes stolen, families and friends murdered.
Sweet summer child.
Because they love their colonial overlords, the UK, and the UK gave part of palestina to the jews to create Israel?
Must be something like that, or just plain longing to influence a tiny part of the world that is close to the area that has a tad of oil in the ground.
At this point if anyone is the satellite state between the US and UK it’s the UK.
Try one of the largest supplies of Natural Gas in the world
