The US is supporting Israel through what we can mostly all agree is a genocide of the Gazans. Clearly, Biden isn’t a genocidal maniac, yet he’s all in with unwavering support. Why are we doing this? There has to be a logical reason that isn’t just “we want Israel to kill everyone in Gaza and take their land a la lebensraum.”
We know this is an emotional topic, so please be respectful of each other so that we can have open and clear authentic discussion on the matter.
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Because history is never the result of good or bad intentions, as much as propaganda would try and convince you otherwise
Strategic military foothold in the Middle East.
The jews are very influential in the US. Dollar. Jeffrey Epstein. Medias. On the other hand a lot of crazy Christians, who want to believe their story of the “holy land”. Useful idiots. A monotheistic tragedy with a such called loving god and a lot of blood and gore. Perhaps they love it subconsciously?
Which Jews?
I assume we are to read it as (((the Jews))).
Trying to give homey benefit of the doubt (with enough rope). Thanks for reminding me to send my daily ping.
Which Jews?
The ones with money. The ordinary people can just be brushed aside.
How does this piece of shit’s comments stick and you delete everything I post. Fuck Lemmy and fuck you mods you racist dicks for leaving this crap up all the time.
Israel is an ally in the middle east, the only one who does what the US says whenever they say it.
spits out coffee
Israel does what they want.
Their interests align with ours more often than, say, Syria, but they are not a puppet state. Israel tells US foreign policy to go fuck itself sideways on a regular basis.
Interesting, What are some examples of this?
The answer is simple and almost no one gets it: The U.S. will NEVER give up a military foothold in the middle east. They will ignore every atrocity Israel commits if it means we have a place to sortie from.
That’s it.
It’s not a religious conspiracy, it’s not about back room money deals.
It’s about military power and our ability to strike anywhere in the world with 2 hours notice.
The U.S. will NEVER give up a military foothold in the middle east.
They will, only once all the oil’s been extracted, which will take some decades yet.
While it’s not a religious conspiracy, there is plenty of religious support from certain christian denominations, on the USA and other countries, because of some weird interpretation of the bible about Israelis getting their “promised land” back.
It’s not only about oil. I mean sure, some of it is but even without oil they’d want military access simply because of how much a hotspot it is.
I already told you this has nothing to do with religion and the fact you believe this means your sources aren’t trustworthy.
Oh, you mean that people who use religion to preach support for isreal aren’t real? The pastors in my country that do that during the cults and on TV must be a figment of my imagination, then!
And exactly what kind of impact do you think those religious nuts have on our top military brass’s positions?
I find it funny that you moved the goalposts so readily. I don’t have time for intellectually dishonest people.
This is the most simple answer and the truth. Not only that, but our hands are generally tied to a fault when it comes to these allies. This is why Biden has had some words to say, but there’s no actual teeth to them. He literally can’t do shit. Any other administration would be the same.
Yeah but that won’t prevent every fuckdamn armchair admiral from weighing in with their wikipedia based knowledge.
The problem is that those trolls are significantly out-shouting the truth.
Well, Trump might do something because he’s willing to break any and all precedents … but the something he does would likely be much worse, impulsive, and generally lacking much forethought.
No he CAN do something, he can say fuck you, and let someone else run while he does the right thing regardless of the cost to his career
It wouldn’t be the cost to his career, it would be the loss of military access to the most volatile place on the planet.
Do you even bother understanding the concepts you comment on?
We have other bases in the Middle East, we don’t need them for a foothold.
We can walk in, whip our dick out and ask who wants to be our new friend and under our protection.
Israel is ignoring us anyway so I see no harm.
Fall in line or fuck around and find out when we allow them to be outlaws and retract our protection.
Sends a message while we are at it.
… there is literally no military strategist in our armed forces that agree with your assessment.
Please don’t mistake your wikipedia education for a nuanced and in-depth understanding.
Because they have no intention of changing anything why would they look for another way?
They all keep getting rich off backroom deals with weapon companies
Because while “what we can mostly all agree” to that, Biden does not think that Israel is engaged in genocide.
Just because a group of people perceive something to be the absolute truth, doesn’t mean everyone interpret reality the same way.
Because Israel helped the US a ton during the cold war. Mossad are pretty good at what they do, and what they did a lot of was spying on Moscow.
Except when it comes to defending their own country from their technologically inferior neighbor.
Racism.
You can see that by how American politicians go on and on about Israel being a “Jewish Nation”, a characteristic that is wholly unimportant unless ones is a racist.
Since WWII and what was done to Jews (and not only them: there is this “strange” forgetfulness that for example the Roma were also being exterminated) by the German racists that, even though the racism itself never died, Jews became “one of us” for the racists in many countries with a predominant white majority (in other words, they’re considered just another kind of “white”).
Israel itself seems to have invested a lot into portraying itself as a “Western Nation” to further entrench and capitalize on that “one of us” perception in Western nations,
Palestinians, on the other hand are seen by the racists as “muslims” and as some call it “brown people”, with quite a lot of nasty prejudices associated with both characteristics.
For the racists this is an “people like us” vs “them” fight, hence why even very over racist statement of the Israelis like calling Palestinians “human animals” don’t shock them (the racists probably think the same) and hence too the vastly different reaction from how the invasion of Ukraine by Russia was seen, since that one from a racist point of view was “people like us” vs “people like us”.
This, by the way, also explains Germany’s behaviour on this: the Nazis might have been kicked out of power there but that very “special” way of looking at other human beings as primarily members of an etnicity and “like us” or “not like us” has never left, so Israel gets unwavering support no matter what since they’re “a Jewish Nation” (notice how it’s people etnicity that determines if support is given).
This alliance allows the US to maintain a stronger foothold in the Middle East and exert hegemonic power via proxy.
This isn’t the only reason, of course, but it’s part of it.
It also allows Israel and other relugional institutions to influence US politics.
Who is the hegemon, the vassal or the collector?
+Palestinians are not as white and a religious minority on top of it
And the US wants a foothold in the middle east because oil.
Yes, the US wants that foothold because of oil. It’s not because we wish to become rich off it, it’s because oil is essential to keeping our economy stable. Keeping the region stable, or at least “stable” in America’s best interests, is paramount.
Doesn’t matter what anyone’s opinion on our oil consumption is, even in the face of global warming. At this point in time, we need it.
Without oil our economy plummets and that affects the whole world. And we can’t fix it anytime soon. I’m seeing hope, but it’s painfully slow. FFS, trying to fix this mess bucks the richest interests on the planet. And if we guillotined every one of them, we’d still be in the same place.
I see a lot of talk around here calling talk of the “economy” bullshit, like those numbers only affect the rich, and fuck 'em. Like it or not, we all participate in the economy.
In turn, we’re all hurt if it crashes. And that includes the rest of the world. Anyone here old enough to remember the gas station lines after the Iranian revolution?
And spare me talk of coulda/shoula/woulda. America could have done a dozen things better to avoid all this. We didn’t. And here we are.
In case you didn’t notice, many people are in the middle of the crash right now. So yeah, it’s going to suck for everyone, but what are the alternatives?
I don’t think the US isn’t interested in the oil opportunities in the Middle East, but I think the US wants a foothold everywhere and anywhere across the globe to maintain its position as a global superpower.
Also oil.
Well, that and keeping
the USSRRussia and China out
That and Israel wouldn’t hesitate a second before switching sides and allying with Russia and/or China.
Read a lot of answers and yours is succinct.
Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security.
~ Alexander Haig
critical region for American national security.
The rest was true but this one is complete BS
They have historic ties and Israel is an important strategic ally in the middle east for the US.
Money.
As a US citizen, I really wish we wouldn’t. I know a lot of us are against it too.
Thank god you’re are in inconsequential but very vocal minority.
I really don’t think we are a minority.
If it looks like a genocidal maniac, and it quacks like a genocidal maniac…
HAMAS, Hezbollah, Houthis, Islamic Jihad, Ayatollah Khamenei, Putin, Xi Jingping… anyone? Literally genocidal maniacs with openly hateful plans and views on the world.
Western powers support Israel because they Middle East is a strategically important region and Western powers have exactly one reliable partner there. I mean, look at what the House of Saud can get away with just for being a semi-reliable partner.
Don’t discount the fact that Israel supported us in every way when 9/11 happened. I firmly believe every favor is being called in at this point.
So did China and Russia
Yeah, supported the US by knowing about the attacks and celebrating with photos on Sept 10th and having Bush and Ashcroft fly the mossad agents back to Israel.
Israel is no friend. The last time a US naval ship was attacked and destroyed was USS Liberty
And let’s not forget ol Saddam in the 80s
How exactly is Israel reliable when they do whatever they want regardless of western powers?
6 day war proved that Israel is not only an ideal staging ground but can basically just go out and kick the entire neighborhood’s ass all on their own, so having them on side for an actual throwdown in the region is seen as incredibly valuable for NATO war gamers considering hypothetical wars with Iran or even Russia if they decide to step too far over their side of the caucuses.
So long as they control their turf absolutely, and will attack whatever they’re pointed at, not attacking what they aren’t is seen as less of a problem
kick the entire neighborhood’s ass all on their own
people actually believe this shit. 🤦♂️
israel has always, since its inception has been propped up by western powers. Just because you don’t see them hoisting up a different flag than their own, doesn’t mean they are fighting anyone alone.
This is like US boasting they alone kicked the british out without any assistance.
Sending them weapons isn’t propping them up quite the same way the US got the assist from France Spain and the Netherlands, n’or were the arab states the same kind of comparative force that the brits were to the colonists, also Israel was initially a Soviet ally before the suez crisis.
Also, saying it doesn’t count because Israel bought an overwhelming kit advantage is like saying Cannae didn’t count because Hannibal “cheated” by facing off with the Romans so they’d be facing into a dust storm.
I think this issue is also more nuanced than you’ll see it given credit for in the media.
I think there’s some strong “War in Iraq” parallels that can be drawn that might help reflect why the US is reacting the way they are.
To summarize, small group of terrorists commit an attack that is one of the worst in the nations history. This country that was attacked has a much better funded military, and they roll in to exact retribution, notionally under the banner of “stopping the people who did this and not letting it happen again.” The war of revenge is hugely detrimental to the civilian population therein, and human rights violations occur.
Most establishment politicians were/are fully on board with the War in Iraq. Why wouldn’t they be on board with Israel right now? It’s basically the same situation again.
I think that a lot of what you see online forgets that this wasn’t some random thing where Israel just decided to commit a genocide out of nowhere. But just like how 9/11 didn’t justify the War in Iraq, 10/7 doesn’t justify what’s happening now. But it’s somewhat understandable why it’s happening, and why people support it.
I remember right after 9/11, the vast majority of people were on board with sending troops in. The dissenters were super few and far between. This is just that again, but Israel this time.
Iraq didn’t have anything to do with 9-11. I think you mean Afghanistan.
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct. :)
I was using “The War in Iraq” as a cover term for the whole ongoing conflict that arose in the aftermath of 9/11.
I think that your point actually furthers my parallel though. As the US was in Afghanistan, the Bush Administration’s obsession with Iraq ended up with them pushing questionable Intel that there were Al Queda controlled WMDs in Iraq, and that we had to invade there as well if we really wanted to win the war.
There’s a pretty clear parallel between that logic and the “Hamas Tunnels” arguments we’re hearing out of Israel at the moment.
One day they will release the full uncut and unedited videos of the tunnels so we can see where they all started, ran, and ended.
Probably any day now with how good the deepfakes are getting
Understand this, all reading this thread, though:
The DarkHexad of human-evil’s dimensions, is:
- Narcissism
- Machiavellianism
- Sociopathy ( mentally/experientially induced ) / Psychopathy ( intrinsic defective mirror-neurons function, NO empathy, NO other is “human” )
- Nihilism
- Sadism
- SystemicDishonesty
The more abused some population is, the more they become embedded in DarkHexad mind/meaning.
Hamas went nihilist.
They knew that Israel’d commit to genociding all Palestinians, to all the extent they could, and that’s why they did the attack.
Israel’s now is demonstrating its nihilism/sadism so blatently that their “deterrent” is being permanently corroded-away:
Within a few years, the surrounding Muslim region won’t care how much damage/violence Israel does to them while they’re annihilating Israel, they’ll HAVE TO annihilate Israel, at ANY cost.
Israel’s guaranteeing its own within-decade annihilation.
Exactly as Hamas’ ( either unconsciously or consciously ) strategy determined.
Israel walked into the trap, they ate the bait.
2 millenia ago, the ONLY Jew in the world that no Zionist would tolerate to have any validity, Yehoshua “Jesus” benJoseph, warned that when the abomination Daniel spoke-of was becoming real, that Israel would be annihilated.
( Matt 24, iirc … here, I dug it up, just in case anybody wants to read the actual text: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt+24%3A15-22&version=AMPC )
Perfect & correct warning.
Within 1 decade, Israel’s going to be annihilated, exactly as benJoseph warned, and the Zionists, themselves, are the ones enforcing that no alternative-future can happen.
Comical, really: one’s-own ideology/prejudice absolutely determining one’s fate, in a way that makes one’s most-hated-individual proven-right.
“Deterrent” only works when the ones hating your life are hesitating because of their aversion to the harm you can do them.
Israel’s not going to have any “deterrent” soon.
And they’re too ideology/prejudice rabid to know that simple human-nature meaning.
When, in a decade, perhaps less, Israel’s been annihilated, how is the rest of the Middle East, now committed/allied with BRICS, going to tilt the world’s geopolitical table?
No matter: Trump’s already said he’ll “delete” the constitution, leave NATO, back Russia, create crime in Washington DC, be dictator, & “MAGA”, right?
That is going to happen, unfortunately, and the incompetence of the Biden-institution is playing directly into handing the entire US into Trump-cult’s hands.
The economic rug-pull that they’re delaying can’t be held-back forever, either.
Backlash-vote always torpedoes the incumbents, in that situation.
It doesn’t even matter if legalism “prohibits” Trump becoming GEOTUS, now: legalists ignore all the letter-of-the-law that contradicts their intention, …
… and that is sooo traditional for legalists that benJoseph railed against their doing that 2 millenia ago.
Something like “you who hold the letter-of-the-law rules, who ignore even 1 part, are guilty of ALL”, iirc.
That is exactly the nature of the legalism of nowadays.
The real game going-on is that human-unconscious-ignorance is trying to enforce a simplistic “mythic” “importance” through global tantrum/pogrom.
And arguing with humanity’s unconscious-toddler … requires a bit of rather-brutal experience-induced-understanding enforcement, and that isn’t going to happen until “armageddon” has beaten that understanding into our unconscious.
The Great Filter.
Won’t-grow-up is the most-fundamental religion, in our unconscious.
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