Boys and men from generation Z are more likely than older baby boomers to believe that feminism has done more harm than good, according to research that shows a “real risk of fractious division among this coming generation”.
One in four UK males aged 16 to 29 believe it is harder to be a man than a woman and a fifth of those who have heard of him now look favourably on the social media influencer Andrew Tate, the polling of over 3,600 people found.
Tate, the British-American former kickboxer who has 8.7 million followers on the social media platform X, is facing charges in Romania, which he denies, of human trafficking, rape and forming a criminal gang to sexually exploit women. He has talked about hitting and choking women and has said he is “absolutely a misogynist”.
…
On feminism, 16% of gen Z males felt it had done more harm than good. Among over-60s the figure was 13%.
The figures emerged from Ipsos polling for King’s College London’s Policy Institute and the Global Institute for Women’s Leadership. The research also found that 37% of men aged 16 to 29 consider “toxic masculinity” an unhelpful phrase, roughly double the number of young women who don’t like it.
“This is a new and unusual generational pattern,” said Prof Bobby Duffy, director of the Policy Institute. “Normally, it tends to be the case that younger generations are consistently more comfortable with emerging social norms, as they grew up with these as a natural part of their lives.”
Feminism has a branding problem. The name itself makes it sound like it’s about putting women above men. People who don’t know better—the kind of people who are disproportionately young—will judge feminism based on the name.
Calling it feminism made sense when everyone “knew” women were generally inferior to men, but since gender equality has become the mainstream view, the name had lost the context that made it work. Combined with the scope creep of feminism that causes it to encompass issues like disability rights and economic inequality, I think feminism is becoming indistinguishable from leftism.
It won’t change as woman in literally in feminism name. The proper word is egalitarianism.
What’s the difference between that and ‘All Lives Matter’.
Isn’t this the same rationale for ‘All Lives Matter’? You want to remove the history of oppression and pretend we’re equal, despite trump and tate and the incels. Feminism was and is necessary, the US is removing womens right to bodily autonomy and you’re pretending it’s all over.
Sorry, did you respond to the wrong comment?
Nope. Feminism is no more about putting women above men than BLM is about putting black lives above others. By removing women from the name you remove the history of oppression, a history that should’nt be hushed uo, and in a world with trump and tate feminism is sorely needed.
So why are you “responding” to a bunch of things I never said or even remotely suggested?
I think feminism is becoming indistinguishable from leftism.
There might be a reason for that. Where on the right are you hearing strong advocacy for women’s rights and equality?
People in politics are painting infrastructure bills as progressive these days, so feminism is one of those leftisms just like repaving roads and fixing bridges that are years out of spec. The overton window must be the window on a plane because it wont stop moving.
Believibg in the power of cooperation is already communism in some circles…
Problem is that the branding issue is a problem for women too. The vast majority of feminists are great folks who want equality. But it also attracts the self important types that want to use victim status to get ahead or just generally put the other side down. And they’re usually the loudest “feminists”. That perpetuates the branding problem.
I think this problem is always going to exist when we’re talking about large political or philosophical movements. There’s no Council of Feminism who gets to decide who “counts” as a “real feminist”. I’ve met self proclaimed feminists whose views are what I would describe as actively anti-feminist, but there’s nothing I can do to change that.
An example that comes to my mind is how I grappled with the existence of Trans-Exclusionary-Radical-Feminism and it’s adherents (TERFs). It wasn’t just their transphobia I had beef with, but so much of their supporting worldview made me want to proclaim that they are “no true feminists”. That felt intellectually disingenuous though, because who am I to say what “true feminism” is?
I’ve come to terms with this kind of discomfort, and it’s something that has affected to what extent I call myself a feminist. I still do, but like any word, it’s utility depends on context and often it’s just not a useful label when it covers such a wide diversity of viewpoints. Certainly it shouldn’t be seen as a synonym for “good”, which is perhaps how I sometimes thought of it.
Well put. This is a very salient observation! But as OP said, I think feminism is a particularly bad name. It comes across to many as equivalent to misandrist, matriarchist, or a female only club. Rather than anyone in favor of equality for women.
I think it’s important to remember that feminism is as much a political movement as a philosophical one. How things should be versus how to fix things are different.
Feminism is leftism and leftism is feminism. It’s always been that way because it’s all about the same issue, equality. Women’s rights, civil rights, trans rights, they’re all fighting for the same thing. One of my favorite quotes comes from Fannie Lou Hamer, civil rights and women’s rights activist, “Nobody’s free until everybody’s free”
“Nobody’s free until everybody’s free”
This is like a main tenet of existentialisme, at least as it’s described by Sartre and De Beauvoir. To anyone reading, check out the very easy reads of Ethics of Ambiguity by De Beauvoir and Existentialism is a Humanism by Sartre.
“the scope creep of feminism that causes it to encompass issues like disability rights and economic inequality, I think feminism is becoming indistinguishable from leftism.”
Why do you say that like it’s a bad thing?
Because not everyone is a leftist.
If movement A wants to achieve B and C, then people who don’t want C won’t support movement A (probably), even if they want B. If A just wants B, then everyone that wants B will support A, which makes B way more likely to happen at the cost of C being slightly less likely.
This is such an out-of-touch take. I truly hope you can engage in some learning and arrive at a more productive and truth-seeking conclusion in the future.
Branding problems generally don’t arise out of nowhere. When issues like this arise, it’s crucial to ask, ‘Can anyone benefit monetarily from reshaping this narrative?’ Are there individuals and groups being amplified who profit from redefining ‘feminism’ as repackaged misandry?
If you’re familiar with figures from the manosphere like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate, it’s abundantly clear that the answer is abso-fucking-litely, there are individuals who exploit this narrative. It’s not merely a branding problem; it’s a deliberate disinformation campaign orchestrated by genuine misogynists and opportunists, especially prevalent on platforms like YouTube, bolstered by algorithmic failures in what’s commonly referred to as the ‘alt-right pipeline.’
Remember when YouTube was inundated with content titled ‘BEN SHAPIRO DESTROYS FEMINIST LIBTARD’? That wasn’t an accident; it was the beginning of years of messaging and investment. Now, these same individuals are profiting from their unchecked efforts, ranging from merchandise sales to literal fucking exploitation and human trafficking.
Please let me know if any part of this is unclear or poorly worded, or if you have any questions at all. I am genuinely committed to deplatforming these psychos, and it begins with informing people when they may unwittingly defend their actions.
The only conclusion I can take from your screed is that you completely misunderstood everything I said. I’m not defending assholes like Peterson and Tate in any way.
i’m sorry you feel that way. any downplaying of current attitudes towards feminism to just a matter of marketing is playing into the narratives of Peterson and Tate.
sorry man.
Rereading what I wrote and I get why you thought I misunderstood. I edited my original response as well. Sorry about that.
So “humanism”?
I think it’s accurate now because feminists don’t want equality; they want superiority.
They will lie to you and talk to their friends behind your backs about the truth.
You’re who I was talking about in my first paragraph.
I can’t say I’m surprised that people like Andrew Tate, Steven Crowder, Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro have gained quite the social media following. Society has failed men, and the oligarchy that controls our world has a lot to answer for.
Men are disproportionately affected by a lot of the socioeconomic issues currently plaguing the Western world because despite decades of progress towards creating an egalitarian society, men are the ones who are negatively impacted if they cannot provide.
And before you dispute me on this notion, can you offer any other explanation for why the biggest role model for a lot of teenage boys is some bloomy rind dick cheese who looks like a spitting image of the Stonks meme guy?
Because their content is controversial, thus driving engagement, thus being favored by the algorithms of many social media platforms. I still get recommended some of their garbage on YouTube, despite never having watched anything remotely similar to it.
Younger people tend to be easier to influence, and they often lack the experience to smell bullshit. And the more people hear something, the more likely they are to believe it.
Men are disproportionately affected by a lot of the socioeconomic issues currently plaguing the Western world
Absolute nonsense. But good job exemplifying the segment the article is talking about by regurgitating that imaginary talking point.
Found the boomer?
It’s crazy how hard it is for some people to simply recognize that men have their own unique issues not being addressed by feminism.
The double edged sword with how custody is awarded is that if men are the primary breadwinner of the household, and the mother is the primary caregiver, a judge will say “okay, you spend a lot of time away from the family as it is earning money to support them, then you won’t mind if we mandate that you aren’t legally allowed to see your kids for 75% of the month.”
Men are disproportionately affected by a lot of the socioeconomic issues
Women are more poor than men. So, what do you mean by this?
men are the ones who are negatively impacted if they cannot provide.
What does that even mean?
judicial decisions on child custody and alimony are heavily favoured towards women
Men are more likely than women to get custody when they ask for it. Men pay more alimony on average because they are more likely to have and earn more money.
Single mothers (not single fathers) are one of the poorest groups worldwide. That goes for the USA as well.
It seems like you really bought into the angry YouTubers.
There are many things.
For instance, I am working legally in the US, this is my third year, I had to run away feom my home in Mexico because od the narco, I didn’t mess with anybody, I hardly got out just to get groceries and my job. Some narco srill burned my house.
I know 2 women with the same issue, but they came here illegally. One of them works and the other didn’t. But both, in a year, are already residents. I for instance pay my taxes do everything legal and i got denied of any form of aid to change my status.
And for instance, I helped at one place where they help single mothers… all have the kids and some.od yhem still do drugs. I doubt what you say about the custody.
Cherry picking, cherry picking and, finally, cherry picking.
Nice.
Women are more poor than men.
Men are more homeless. The median wage difference between men and women 18-34 is not significant.
What does that even mean?
Going to the first point, societally, generally women have more to fall back on. Of course it would be great if everyone can choose to work or not, but generally in a straight relationship, the only one with a real choice is the woman. Also, obviously this is controversial to say, but semi-jokingly a lot of men see being able to sell sex/nudes as a privilege for relatively easy money.
Men are more likely than women to get custody when they ask for it.
Source?
Single mothers (not single fathers) are one of the poorest groups worldwide. That goes for the USA as well.
Does that include the single fathers in prison?
Men are more homeless.
Selection bias, as homeless women have twice the mortality of their male peers. There are more living homeless men entirely because there are more dead homeless women.
societally, generally women have more to fall back on
More of what?
Men are more likely than women to get custody when they ask for it.
What’s more damning is that In 91% of custody cases, the parents mutually decide to give custody to the mother. Fathers fight for custody in court in less than 4% of divorces. Twenty-seven percent of fathers completely abandon their children after divorce.
Does that include the single fathers in prison?
Bizarrely, yes. In the rare instances when fathers with convictions attempt to win custody, they have a better than average chance of obtaining it.
A great deal of this boils down to with the gender pay gap which favors men at virtually every income tier and along every sociological fault line. Since primary guardianship is officially a gender neutral dispute, the individual with the larger income enjoys disproportionate advantage in winning custody.
There are more living homeless men entirely because there are more dead homeless women.
You can’t honestly believe this. The mortality rate is awful but it does not sufficiently explain why there are more men than women unhoused.
You can’t honestly believe this.
I don’t have to believe it. I’ve got the data to prove it.
The mortality rate is awful but it does not sufficiently explain
When the mortality rate among women is twice that of men, the only way you get an equivalent number of homeless women is if the deficit is made up by women moving into the homeless population faster than men.
So which is it? Are men predominant because women die faster? Or are they not predominant because more women are becoming homeless?
I don’t have to believe it. I’ve got the data to prove it.
Ok, this is hilarious! I actually dug into your data, but I didn’t have to dig that deep to find you are COMPLETELY misreading it. Just read this from the FIRST PAGE:
Within the homeless population, people who are Black, FEMALE, and Hispanic have LOWER relative mortality risk than their white, male, and non-Hispanic counterparts.
So wait, your data which you used to dismiss the male homelessness issue by provocatively suggesting women were dying in the hundreds of thousands, actually shows the exact OPPOSITE?
I mean, I am not a statistician, I will be humble for a moment and accept the possibility that maybe I have misread something here, because this level of irony is hard for me to believe. I get things wrong sometimes! Where am I wrong? Point to me where in the data you can get away with saying that female homeless mortality is double. Make it make sense.This seems to happen every time an issue affecting boys and men is discussed. No matter what the data says, the welfare of men is dismissed hastily. It’s like people think this is a zero sum game or something.
For the most part these are great points. No arguments, save for that you mentioned women earn less than men - not disagreeing with you, but my understanding is that where men and women are doing the same job the wage gap is almost nonexistent.
Factors like the glass ceiling and draconian laws about taking time off work to parent - and who can do this - contribute as well.
Also men tend to gravitate towards higher paying, and more dangerous, jobs. Women generally want jobs that will help others and give their life meaning, whereas many men will kill vows in a manure pit with their teeth for 8 hours a day if you pay them enough.
Of course things are changing - there Fd women working in the trades, for example.
So yes, the gap exists but the “why” of it and the solutions are complex and nuanced. I felt hat because of this it detracts from otherwie well made arguments.
Yeah that is there but the playing fiekd
The gender pay gap is very real. Women end up with holes in their CVs due to pregnancy, child birth and then child care. That holes means lower pay. Lower pay means more likely to do child care. Society pushed childcare more on to women. If child care costs more than they earn, of course they aren’t going to work. Making the CV hole worse. It’s a negative feedback loop kicked off by having kids.
Yep. Tovuhed on this. Many countries allow both parents equal time off to take care of kids. Which is the better solution here.
Childless men don’t have a stake in child custody, visitation, child support or spousal support so that can’t be it.
I used to be sympathetic to these types of arguments until I actually gained relevant experience with the formula that gets used to calculate family support.
I have to assume you’re talking about Andrew Tate. Pretty much everyone who ever pushed cryptocurrency as part of their social media sponsorships I assume is or was on the Russian take. We experienced the same exact type of messaging in 2014-2015 about how unfair life is for men when women are by default responsible for raising and providing for kids if Dad skips town or otherwise leaves the picture.
It’s easy to get a following by fostering fear and hate. Literally just blame and vilify a group and blame them for all the problems your target audience has.
I do agree males are disproportionately impacted by certain things… look at prison, suicide, etc. but I also think feminism would correct that. I’m a truly equal society, men wouldn’t bare the brute of the stress of financial support, for example. I also think in a truly equal society, the notion that men chase women goes away. People are just out there trying to find love and/or happiness.
If you have that, a lot of the symptoms you mentioned, where men are disproportionately affected go away.
I can’t say I’m surprised that people like Andrew Tate, Steven Crowder, Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro have gained quite the social media following.
I can. Their content sucks. It’s whiny and boring and utterly tasteless. Tate’s an absolute skeez. Crowder has zero swag. Peterson is an incoherent puddle. And Ben Shapiro… well… just come on, wtf is this?
And before you dispute me on this notion, can you offer any other explanation for why the biggest role model for a lot of teenage boys is some bloomy rind dick cheese who looks like a spitting image of the Stonks meme guy?
Because that’s half of what YouTube / Twitch / Netflix / et al serves up anymore. These people are the dregs of modern media, but they and their promoters are everywhere. Its the same way that AM radio is the endless cesspool of senile racists whining about scary foreigners and Daytime TV is washed up fashion models pretending to have the secret to fame, fortune, and eternal youth. The lowest common denominator of mass media is overflowing with gross, juvenile bullshit.
And when you simply cannot escape the morass of filth, that’s going to affect you one way or another.
I’d wager that people who think that couldn’t give you a coherent definition of what feminism actually is.
God fucking forbid women receive equal treatment or autonomy over their bodies!
Is there a coherent definition of feminism that feminists agree on?
(I think that people’s opinion about feminism is commonly their opinion about self-identified feminists. It’s fair to say “I believe feminism is harmful because the opinions I have heard self-identified feminists express have often seemed ridiculous, offensive, or counterproductive” without needing a definition of feminism that goes beyond self-identification.)
The definition I found that popped up on google pretty well sums up what I have always heard women say.
The advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes
It’s really that simple. It’s not a women over men movement. It’s a movement to receive the same respect, rights, and inclusion that men have enjoyed basically forever. They want the right to make decisions about their body. They’d like to maybe not be victims of sexual assault and rape and staggering percentages (about 1 in 6 American women will be raped in their lifetime). They’d like to have a better chance at corporate leadership (10% of fortune 500 CEOs are women). They’d like to have more of a footprint in government (roughly 28% of the US congress is female and this is a record high).
They just want equity and respect and they deserve it.
There’s an essay that I agree with about that sort of definition.
Here’s a relevant excerpt:
I feel like every single term in social justice terminology has a totally unobjectionable and obviously important meaning – and then is actually used a completely different way.
The closest analogy I can think of is those religious people who say “God is just another word for the order and beauty in the Universe” – and then later pray to God to smite their enemies. And if you criticize them for doing the latter, they say “But God just means there is order and beauty in the universe, surely you’re not objecting to that?”
The result is that people can accuse people of “privilege” or “mansplaining” no matter what they do, and then when people criticize the concept of “privilege” they retreat back to “but ‘privilege’ just means you’re interrupting women in a women-only safe space. Surely no one can object to criticizing people who do that?”
Let’s say that, for example, I affirmed my belief that people should be hired based on their ability rather than on their sex, but then I said that there are more men than women in software development mainly due to biological differences. That doesn’t go against your definition, but do you think most feminists would react well to it? They didn’t when James Damore said it, or when the president of Harvard said something similar…
(This is despite the fact that it’s commonly accepted that biological differences between the sexes are the main reason why there are more men than women who are violent criminals.)
As a man myself I’m just having a hard time sympathizing with other men who grief at a term like “mansplaining” and in that find the justifications for disregarding the crux of what feminism seeks to make right. Is the term thrown around too much? Sure, I bet it is. So are a lot of absolutely vile quips about women. I can empathize with why some women are as verbally antagonistic towards men as they are.
To your other point. Are women underrepresented in STEM fields because they lack the ability to tackle those problems or because women have been historically directed away from those sorts of professions for as long as we have history to look back on?
You can play some of this off to less women wanting X or Y job, but if you cannot acknowledge men holding 9 out of 10 CEO positions in fortune 500 companies as maybe being a symptom of major structural imbalances in favor of men, I do not know what to tell you. I’ve watched women be professionally undermined throughout the entirety of my working life.
Also I missed your edit on your previous comment:
(I think that people’s opinion about feminism is commonly their opinion about self-identified feminists. It’s fair to say “I believe feminism is harmful because the opinions I have heard self-identified feminists express have often seemed ridiculous, offensive, or counterproductive” without needing a definition of feminism that goes beyond self-identification.)
Would it be then fair to say that, men broadly speaking are harmful because a not insignificant group of men rape about 16% of the female population? I think judging any group wholesale by the actions of it’s most extreme cohort is problematic. And in this case we’re talking about words women said that made some guys feel bad.
I just don’t buy into the counter argument to feminism and I think this quote sums up how a lot of men are feeling about the topic right now.
When you’re accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression.
To your other point. Are women underrepresented in STEM fields because they lack the ability to tackle those problems or because women have been historically directed away from those sorts of professions for as long as we have history to look back on?
To speak to that, back when software development was not a prestigious job, it was done mostly by women. The lead developer for the Apollo program’s guidance software is a woman, Margaret Hamilton.
I’m betting that 16% suffers with toxic masculinity.
This is exactly why it’s not a helpful term. We are all suffering from it, all genders alike but in different ways.
The phenomenon referred to as toxic masculinity is a trait of society, not individuals. It’s the sum of all destructive societal expectations placed on men, the whole “don’t cry, repress your feelings, you must be the strong one” thing. It causes men to be emotionally repressed and potentially violent or self-destructive, and also causes society to associate leadership and strength with men alone, contributing to a glass ceiling effect for other genders.
A lot of people hear “toxic masculinity” and associate it with “men bad”, that’s why it’s not as constructive a term as it could be.
“A lot of people hear “toxic masculinity” and associate it with “men bad”, that’s why it’s not as constructive a term as it could be.”
Specifically, people have been told that it means masculinity is toxic rather than a specific type of masculinity.
It sits in the same realm as “mansplaining” to me. There’s an actual academic background behind it that’s largely fair and reasonable, but I mostly see it misused as a way to attack men
YES! Mansplaining isn’t just a man explaining things.
Everyone who doesn’t accept this is toxic!
How did they define femanism cos by trational dedinition of equal i heighly doubt it
Y’all know it’s incels, right?
From what I read of the polls, Im strongly inclined that its religion based not incels.
Well, that’s a new one. Not that surprising, though.
I wonder how this reconciles against the other recent report of Gen Z more likely to be LGBTQ than Republican. On one hand, Republicans are the most vocal enemy of feminism and the LGBTQ+ community, but on the other hand, my anecdotal experience dealing with Gen Z dudes are that they’re fucking idiot reactionaries who think “feminism” is “blue haired land whale blaming all her problems on men”. I’m not here to paint any group of people with a broad brush, but again, speaking anecdotally, it seems that Gen X parents are neglectful as shit and their Gen Z sons are desperately looking for father figures elsewhere.
I think the venn diagram between gen z members who are republicans and those who believe feminism is harmful is just one circle inside of another.
Older people have had more history with the term, seeing people burn their bras in the 70s for example. My uncle, around 60, said he loved feminism because it was great when women starting not wearing bras and dressing in more revealing things haha.
I can’t imagine being born after Youtube and Facebook were created. Propaganda through media is incessant and young people have been subjected to the most potent forms for their entire lives.
One thing that may deform statistics is the interpretation of feminism.
Personally i prefer equality and I recognize that the majority of people mean equality when talking about feminism.
In almost all ideological groups theres a section of extremist that listen to the same name. Extremist often yell the loudest and say stupid, hatefull memeable stuff. The post of extremist make ripe content for opposers of the general movement to show how stupid/bad an entire group is.
You can be an otherwise very rational person if the only example of feminism you know is jk rowling then it influenced the decision.
On why its different between generation. In general i observe gen-x and boomers care alot about official definition and proper terminology which leads to narrower thinking but also less Confusion on how to perceive in unity.
Millenials and gen z tend to play More creative with language which can allow much more nuanced communication and fresh perspectives but causes different word meanings within different word groups. Misunderstanding outside of it.
Yep - this is why I consider myself pro gender-equality and endorse classic feminism, but am against “post-modern” feminism. I’ve met plenty of women irl and many more online who under that banner (yes, anecdotal, I know, but we all form opinions based on our experiences ultimately) treat men like shit, unapologetically call “all men evil” etc. etc.
When this comes up I describe myself as egalitarian.
Leaves a lot of the baggage behind, IMO.
The problem is all the blue haired land whales blaming all their problems. On mend a,qnd calling it feminism. ² The idea that feminism is actu. &ally a nuanced field of study / advocacy that aims to understand and dismantle harmful patriarchal norms and ideologies.
That doesn’t sell well online. Add in the name of the game “feminism” and it’s enemy " patriarchy" and it’s pretty easy to see how anyone that’s never engaged with actual feminism - regardless of their gender, can think it’s just “grrrrls good boys bad”.
While I do think the blue haired land whales and the gravy seal anti feminists would agree on what feminism is they’re both probably going to be wrong. And I don’t think this is a no true Scotsman type thing, and at the same time in a sense feminism “is” what the land whales and neck beard say it is, which is to say that the whole thing has gotten very muddied by polarized andsimplistiv viewpoints that have muddied the fact that feminism has a serious fucking pr problem.
Hey, my guy, there’s a backspace key and an edit button. Just saying.
Maybe he wrote it on a typewriter?
I’m glad someone noticed my first stroke. I feel so seen.
I think these things are very related.
I’m queer and trans, and I’m not so picky about the demographic that I hang out with. I’ve met a lot of dudes who wanted to act their best in good faith, but received such vitriol for even showing up in conversations that they stopped bothering. Even as a transgender person, I don’t tend to engage much with community because there’s so little room for meaningful dialogue that isn’t totally prescribed. There seem to be a lot of rules on how you should and shouldn’t be. I understand that propping up the voices of those who have historically been ignored is an important thing, but there is something to be said about the fact that men and boys are often actively shunned from specific groups. If you’re frequently told that you have no place in community, you’re probably going to model a different community around that rejection.
Now what I actually think is happening is that tools of mass manipulation like the more centralized social media platforms are weaponizing the language of social justice to create division and escalation. All media platforms are quite effective at serving the ruling class, but social media is particularly insidious in that it pretends to be real life and the exposure is virtually constant.
So it seems it’s largely ethnic minorities in this age bracket that support this view?
What’s the bet that correlates strongly with religiousness.
Well, in the old days US women couldn’t even vote. Feminism was thus more important than it is today. It’s not really surprising to me that opponents increase by 3% points as women win more equality.
Feminism has 100% turned into a push for superiority, not equality.
Modern feminists believe it’s “their turn” to be the abusers.
100%. What’s your proof? Jokes. Ok buddy
🤡
What makes you believe that women are now the abusers and superior to men?
I think generalising across the whole group like that is what got us into this mess.
You’re asking people to judge the effect of a movement, but only one group remembers what things were like before the movement. It could just be that more gen z men honestly don’t know the answer.
Feminism it’s just another tactic of the world depopulation plan by the elite. That’s it more rights for women and equality it’s just for them to not be just reproductive meat. They want women to not have a lot of kids a now they didn’t have time for it they need to make more money. LMAO
Or, you know, women wanted to stop being told by men like you what they ought to do and how to arrange society. Smh
Maybe but pretty hard to coordinate the way it’s being coordinated, at a global scale seems more like the elite pushing their agenda.
You don’t think it’s possible that women might want equal rights? LMAO
I think equal rights it’s not the problem about it, the problem it’s the manly role feminism propose. Equal rights /not the same/ manly role. I believe the agenda it’s pushing a manly role instead of equal rights to prevent world over population what at the same time it’s not all bad tbh.
I’d like to warn all the Americans against generalizing based upon their personal experiences or beliefs here. This is a UK study that sampled a UK population. These results can’t necessarily be generalized to any other country, this is focused on the UK culture.
There was a recent story on NPR that addressed this. I can’t find it now but basically it said that all these studies in isolation have issues but now there appears to be a trend that transcends national boundaries and cultures.
I don’t know about the NPR one, but Business Insider and the Financial Times had articles recently pulling together a bunch of surveys finding similar trends in the US and around the world respectively
Well the propaganda is working. Surprise, surprise, distribute unfiltered hate speech and people will start believing in this hate speech.
Propoganda, hate speech - interesting as these labels are equally applied by both sides to describe the other.
Eh? I see propaganda accusations all the time, with widely varying degrees of veracity or baselessness, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen the left accused specifically of hate speech. I will admit that I don’t tend to frequent right-leaning opinion outlets, and so may be simply ignorant, but can you provide an example?
Hate speech per UN definition - any kind of communication in speech, writing or behaviour, that attacks or uses pejorative or discriminatory language with reference to a person or a group on the basis of who they are, in other words, based on their religion, ethnicity, nationality, race, colour, descent, gender or other identity factor.
Through the above - there is a lot of pejorative and discriminatory language levelled by both left and right wing posters on social media. Lemmy is rife with it to the point that I don’t feel comfortable in some groups. The social media company formerly known as Twitter is similarly awkward but from another angle. However, it takes multiple viewpoints to form ones own.
More broadly and as a very specific example, I think it might help if you do a careful examination of the way that many on the left describe what is occurring in the gaza strip, specifically attributing qualities to the entirety of Israel and Judaism.
ETA Fwiw I consider myself left of centre and I live in a country whose baseline is more left wing than the US.
It could be a difference in our countries, in the US we learn a LOT about the holocaust and Nazism, WW2, etc, so most people I know politically aware will go out of their way to assure you that they are not speaking about Judaism in general. Who are these ‘many on the left’ being antisemitic? I simply haven’t seen that, not any more than it might have occurred before this current war, which was rare. It doesn’t seem difficult for most to separate the actions of a violent organization like the IDF and right-wing Israeli officials from Jewish people in general.
i guess this is where the differences in “common” knowledge comes in…
There are multiple countries where left wing politics is associated with anti semitism. It might seem weird but it’s true. Start with the UK - there is a Wikipedia page on it. I’m not going to share a heap of further context as I’d invite you to read and review yourself and come to your own conclusions, much as I have.
I would also encourage spending as much time reading accounts of world war I, and the conditions before and after the war, as you have on wwii. It helps to understand what left and right wing have meant over long periods of time, and the clumping / allegiances that comes with these alignments, which persist into the modern world without really being visible under the glossy label.
Interesting you say? :D Those are not “labels applied to sides”. They are words with specific meaning describing actions. Your wording immediately is trying to turn this into an identitarian issue. And it cause isn’t even people, it’s systems. Like algorithms or business practices that have figured out that creating controversy increases profit. Or propagandists who realized that it’s useful to distract from actual policy and real issues, so they get funding.
