The majority of the sweeping tariffs Donald Trump imposed during his second term face one final litmus test that will determine whether he can continue to levy them – and also whether businesses are eligible for massive refunds.
That potentially dramatic turn in the tariff saga comes after a federal appeals court ruled on Friday that Trump unlawfully leaned on the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) to impose across-the-board duties on countries.
Trump had used those powers to push import tax rates as high as 50% on India and Brazil – and as high as 145% on China earlier this year.
Oh so we get to pay twice then. Great.
Thanks CNN. Now the Supreme Court justices know their asking price
deleted by creator
This exactly.
Congress: “Sorry, best we can do is another tax break for the rich.”
The businesses will raise a lawsuit that the money is theirs and you will lose again.
And the prices won’t go back down.
And half the country will blame immigrants and trans people
Small businesses, back of the line. Gotta make sure those billionaires don’t lose out first.
Wouldn’t bring back the small businesses that have already been killed anyway. My favorite coffee shop just closed, and my independent artisan friends are barely selling anything any more.
Increasing the uncertainty is not necessarily beneficial either. Businesses won’t want to keep changing their pricing. People don’t want to plan their purchases around whether tariffs are likely to change up or down in the future. Their instinct will be to wait.
The tariffs were illegal in how they were implemented but Congress could easily do it and would follow his instructions as they have done before.
It’s a shit show, as expected.
Uh congress couldn’t easily implement tariffs though. How would they muster 60 votes in the senate to break the filibuster?
Was it not the end consumer who paid those tariffs?? Frankly, I’d rather it be given back to the business at least, but let’s not pretend that they didn’t extract it from their customers. End it so that other companies can’t as easily gouge based on the idea of tariffs.
Yes, the business just collected it. However, it would also depend on whether they upped their prices to do so.
(they did)
Many (most?) did but not always like for like. This will have the double effect of making American manufacturing less attractive as your competitive edge due to tariffs could evaporate. It also means importers will pass it on straight away as it’s clear to consumers that it’s a government tax. Moreso as we go on. Previously, the uninformed thought the tariffs were not paid by consumers.
Was it not the end consumer who paid those tariffs?
It is whomever imported the item that pays. If you order directly from a tariffed country you pay. If American_Business_01 imports stuff they pay, they then either eat the tariff, raise their price to retailers and distribution (this is what is happening in the non-video game industry). Some businesses are raising MSRP and spreading the tariff between themselves, distribution, retailers, and consumers. Some companies are trying to dump it all on retailers by not raising msrp.
Not only will the consumers never see a dime of any of the money if it’s refunded, the companies aren’t going to lower prices because you’ve already absorbed the price shock.
Ianal, I really hope there is some sort of class action that can be done to force companies to pass that back to consumers.
It should be easy enough to pass through to all the electronic pay methods.
Or force markup items to all be put on massive sale until an equal amount has been sold to make up the sales at markup.
There are no perfect solutions, some people will still make out like bandits.
But jfc, just releasing billions to these companies will only benefit the C-Level and maybe some shareholders, the people already benefiting, not the ones feeling the pain.
A class action just passes the money from one elite class (corporations) to another (class action lawyers). Consumers will get a virtual prepaid debit card for $1.97 in 5 years that can’t be spent anywhere because it can’t be used online and it costs $5 to have them mail you a physical card
Should get out guillotines
100% this. Most I’ve ever seen out of a class action is somehwere between $5-$300. That’s after you produce a mountain of receipts and paperwork. Only lawyers get rich.
See: the gas price jump in 2008-ish
It also gives trump an out from “tarrif checks” he was talking about.
Likely the reason they started talking about those, is anticipation that they may be overturned. Now his supporters will be mad the “deep state” took “their checks” that they were never gonna get.
Right. Everything today is about softening you up. They say, we will kill you—and you panic—then they roll it back to just losing an arm, and you’re happy about it.
Alas, a lot people have already lost an arm and a leg and there’s still no end in sight.
If they’ve lost an arm and a leg that means they have another arm and a leg to lose! Capitalism! ;)
Like a frog in boiling water.
Is that how frogs are cooked? Like a lobsters?
It’s a common myth that frogs will stay in boiling water if the water is heated slowly enough. They can sense heat and will most definitely attempt to escape.
Trying to get a frog to stay where you want it is difficult regardless of water temperature.
The original test had frogs brains removed. A brainless frog will not jump out of water when the temperature is slowly increased. If you increase the temperature quickly though, even a brainless frog will react to temperature change out of raw reflex.
I haven’t even heard that as a common myth. Lobsters, yes. We are lobsters. Frogs? Perhaps very obese frogs
It’s a misunderstanding of an old experiment where frogs were lobotomized before being exposed to the slowly rising temperature of the water.
Fascinating. People are sick though.
Not if you put a lid on!
The heavy lid of tariffs 😬
No, they’ll still attempt to escape.
No, that’s the ratchet effect.
A frog boil is when you slowly raise the temperature so the frogs don’t even realize they’re being boiled.
An example of frog boiling is having national guard just roam around not doing anything. People are pissed out of principle, but they’re not really doing anything for people to riot over. By the time they are, some people will be used to it already and not as pissed as if it was all at once.
It’s also kind of funny because while the frog boiling effect certainly exists, the phenomenon it’s named after does not. A frog will absolutely jump out of gradually heated water when it reaches an uncomfortable temperature.
Well, yeah…
That’s like “dollars to doughnuts” became a thing when a dollar bought a dozen doughnuts. Now you can’t buy a single doughnut for a dollar.
But idioms still remain in the original meaning despite them not making sense.
This is called “price anchoring” when used in business. They throw out an outrageously high number to start and then follow it up with something less to make it seem like a good deal when that was really the price they wanted all along.
Yeah I feel like this was already expected or part of some master plan. The companies didn’t lose because they passed it on to the consumer and then they’re gonna get money on top of it.
I feel like this was already expected or part of some master plan
OMG stop. We’ve elected conspiracy theorists already and things are going to shit. We need to stop conspiratorial thinking.
Is it really conspiratorial when the Commerce Secretary’s kids are literally selling financial products that pretty much assume the tariffs will be tossed in court? Sure as fuck seems to me like they planned this based on their already existing actions.
https://www.wired.com/story/cantor-fitzgerald-trump-tariff-refunds/
Yes, yes it is. Accusations raised about grand conspiracy between companies and government with zero evidence provided other than “I feel like” is a conspiracy theory.
with zero evidence provided
https://www.wired.com/story/cantor-fitzgerald-trump-tariff-refunds/
So - relevant evidence not just any evidence of anything. Jesus Christ. Evidence of “Crime A” can’t be used to support “Crime B”.
Or else what?
No worries , you have a supreme court good at ruling by vibe.
It shouldn’t go back to businesses, it should be a tax credit (with documentation.)
Funny how the refund works out to a total of about 60 cents per American, when I know I’ve paid WAY more than that in tariff-related bullshit.
60 cents? You may have confused “billion” for “million” somewhere, unless I’m misunderstanding you, in which case we’d be talking closer to $600
Whoops, you’re right! Thanks :)
The Businesses didn’t pay the tariffs, We did.
Republicans are so fucking stupid. They imposed a stupid tax on all of us.
Yeah F that.
American consumers need to get the refund, not the corporations.
That was the plan all along
Cool. Can other countries sue for the damage it caused to their industries as well?
