For those out of the loop, WomensStuff has a women-only rule, where men are respectfully asked to not reply to posts.
Clearly the solution here is a publicly seen WomenStuff with whitelisted posters, and an ancillary public community called PeanitsGallery where all talk about the WomenStuff.
I politely asked to get banned.
disagree with the rules, but ain’t my community, I ain’t invited, and I will politely respect it.
imagine walking into someone’s private party, only to complain that I wasn’t invited, and how dare they exclude me!!!
I automatically block communities that put requirements like that on participation. If they don’t want me interacting with it, I don’t want to even see it. I also don’t think it’s appropriate for a publicly open forum. Go make your own private thing somewhere if you want to immediately start off as an echo chamber.
Yeah, unfortunately I did the same after I got warned off for a perfectly fine interaction.
That’s okay. I mean, if you want to open it up again and read it to get a perspective on how women speak when they’re in their own space, nobody minds. But if you don’t want it cropping up in your feed, that’s cool. Obviously the reason it shows up in All is so new women can find it. Being reminded not to comment is just that, a reminder of the rules, and not necessarily a criticism of the content. If women didn’t face so much denial of their voices it wouldn’t be necessary.
I think you just described two things working almost exactly as designed.
You should use block liberally to curate your feed.
Similarly, communities should have whatever rules make sense for them. If that keeps the community small, that might be the desired outcome for them.
I think blocking was the right call here.
There’s only one side of this that is using things as designed, and that would be me blocking things I don’t want to engage with. If a community wants to cater to a very specific group of people, they should be using the tools of the platform that allow them to do so by being set to private snd creating a whitelist instead of leaving it public and expecting everyone to follow the honor system of not engaging if they are not part of the accepted group.
There is no benefit to leaving it public and being private doesn’t make it invisible.
In the very broadest sense I don’t disagree with you. Making a community private is a useful tool and can help to simplify strict entry guidelines.
However, given that “Cater to a very specific group of people”, refers to basically half of earth’s population in this case, I do have some quibbles.
I don’t have the data in front of me, but I bet that women represent something quite less than half the population of Lemmy. It doesn’t even stretch the imagination to suppose that they represent just a fraction of the user base.
So this isn’t a niche interest or obscure sub-culture we’re talking about. This is an artificial minority population. Is the simplicity of going private worth the added obscurity and increased friction to what should be organic community growth?
As it is, you had to see it, decide to engage with it, and then learn that it wasn’t meant for you, and you’d have just preferred to remain unaware it ever existed. Never mind that would also ensure most other People remain unaware it exists.
Is it really such a hardship on you for the filter to be set a little wider for the good of that community?
How are new women to find it if it never appears in All? Feel free to block/remove it, just as you would any niches that don’t interest you and clog up your feed. Or just scroll past, like I do for Linux and gaming and moe.
but linux doesnt tell you you cant comment here if you dont use linux
Imagine every public linux forum overrun by 90% Windows user,s and you might just begin to understand.
Agreed, it’s just a lot of paying attention to the instance names and scrolling past. Usually the post title is a clue as well, but occasionally something sounds like something else. I don’t want to block the whole term, because it might be a small part of some post I’d otherwise be interested in. In any case, I know better than to drop comments in a topic that’s outside my experience.
You invite them or advertise where they can sign up. The same as any other kind of private group.
I didn’t want to see your comment, but that won’t stop me from complaining about having to see your comment anyway.
I mean this very kindly but “i don’t think it’s appropriate” is never a good reason to dictate the actions of others.
Often find yourself inside many stores you find irrelevant when strolling around town? All those unlocked doors must be such temptation.
I don’t recall ever seeing a sign on such a locked door (that is not even locked) that said “Open to the public; Come on in” only to walk in and then be shouted at for not being an employee.
gonna be honest, I don’t read the sidebar for 99% of subs that pop up in the all feed. Hell, I didn’t even check what sub I’m in now until halfway through typing this comment.
so can we get a community for whites only?
edit: sorry, forgot about hexbear
If not commenting is too hard… maybe a setting where you can only comment if you’ve subscribed would be cool
From my own experience, women-only spaces tend to revolve around men, ironically. I can almost bet my left ball on the fact that top post on that sub is about men, not women.
Yayyy, echo chambers! :)
Grow up.
Every other community is an echo chamber full of men. So leave women their space.
no community is blocking women from posting/commenting tho, I too like comparing apples to oranges, great fruit, both make juice
I just think of Dull Mens Club and how they allow anyone to post there.
The problem with WomensStuff is how heavy handed they are with not allowing anyone who isn’t specific enough to post and comment there. Posting, I totally understand. Removing comments the way they do just rubs me so wrong. It’s just not a good look.
Comments are the primary form of interaction on link aggregation sites. Most mod actions are performed against comments, not posts. The other way makes more sense to me (men could post but not comment), but who would want to post and then be unable to respond?
I feel that women should have an easily discovered place where they can talk about shit that is difficult to talk about online. Because a minority of men make that difficult (I want to believe it is a minority, at least), it makes sense for the community to only be for women. Having the community show up in the All feed is the very best way to make it discoverable. Having it be a private community would vastly limit the accessibility for women who have just joined the fediverse.
Like, if it’s that important, there could be a !WomensStuffOpen that mirrors the other community but is open to comments from men. That feels fair and inclusive without taking away from women having a space for themselves.
EDIT: Although it would probably be ideal to only mirror the posts and not the comments. mirroring individual comments would open people up to harassment.
See, I feel like everyone isn’t actually paying attention to what I am saying.
What I am saying is that these types of communities, where only one group can participate in actual conversation, IS an echo chamber.
It’s like if there was a misogynistic community, where only the most vile of men would want to be, where they only hear bad things about women and say bad things about women.
I’m almost certain that that would be frowned upon by normal men/women/people.
Andrew Tate is a very well known douchebag who literally operates in and on an echo chamber…
Really, it’s just not a good look and that’s all I really have to say. Sorry if it rubbed you the wrong way (not just you, in general) but I will stand by what I said and this: echo chambers, where only one group can initiate and interact, are kind of ruining the whole reason a lot of us left Reddit.
Right… Because a man’s opinion is the only thing needed to stop the echo chamber.
where did they say a man’s opinion would remove the echo chamber?
when they said it’s an echo chamber based on the fact that men are discouraged from posting.
no they just said “yay an echo chamber” where does it say something about men? maybe I’m blind
ok what do you think the “echo chamber” content refers to?
Subtext is a difficult concept.
you head cannoned your own subtext doofus. all they said was “yay echo chambers”
You added subtext, all they said was…
Determining the meaning from things that aren’t directly stated is LITERALLY what subtext is
🌎👨🏾🚀🔫🧑🏾🚀
Without subtext the only way to read this comment is they are celebrating echo chambers. They aren’t. Subtext is hard.
like I said you added your own head cannoned subtext
And like I said
🌎👨🏾🚀🔫🧑🏾🚀
Not at all. People’s opinions don’t mean much anyway, hell not even my own!
If you want a safe space on a public forum, then I highly recommend just making it private.
I have literally seen them delete someone’s comment because they ASSUMED the commenter was a man, when they were in the process of transitioning to a women. This led to the person being very confused, and probably feeling like the community wasn’t welcoming to trans people. Being so heavy handed with the way they mod their safe space has probably alienated more people than they welcomed.
I just think it’s a crappy way to handle things, whether it be men or women. If I ever stumble into a mens only community that is as bad as WomensStuff, I will be sure to say the same thing.
Have a good rest of your day!
Making it private limits visibility. Lemmy has a lot of men on it. A private women’s only space would be hard to find for the limited number of women.
I understand the challenges of that, and the challenges of having a safe space for women (hopefully of all spectrums…), but the way they handle it now is just bad and shouldn’t be encouraged.
If I was a woman transitioning into a man, would I still be welcome? I have the experiences that some women have had, but since I am becoming a man, then does that mean I can only comment in other communities now?
It’s just not a good way to handle things, I’m sorry.
You don’t address the visibility issue. Disappearing is not the solution.
And you aren’t addressing anything I’ve said either, so I think we’ve come to a stalemate.
Have a good rest of your day!
The visibility issue is a direct response to your suggestion to making it private.
I read the trans men issue as a red herring to center men’s voices. I’m not sure about that so I let it fall by the way side.
Your final paragraph just said this is a bad way to handle it. There’s no response here because it’s a valid concluding paragraph if the previous points hold water. Obviously, I don’t think they do.
i don’t get why people… well, men… get so bent up over this. I’m a man and yeah seeing a post you want to comment on but seeing a rule that excludes you is a bit annoying but like who cares.
is an askreddit/asklemmy post an echo chamber if it starts with “botanists of reddit/lemmy” and if the rules forced only botanists to reply? ridiculous.
my input is not needed anywhere, let alone everywhere… i can suck it up and let one community go and do its thing without the grace of my comments.
A core part of my values is not excluding people for attributes they were born with. If they’re an asshole, they should be excluded regardless of gender or anything else. I’d feel the same way if it were any other born characteristic being excluded.
It’s like when I see a cybertruck - I disapprove of the driver’s choices, but they had every right to make them.
start your own comm based on your values then
I’m allowed to disapprove, and they’re allowed to run the community as they wish.
true
Let’s take your example a little bit further than some plants.
I see a community that only allows asians or white people to comment, and actively deletes any comments with any name that even semi looks like a “black username” or a “latino username”.
Would you not call that out as being, well, an echo chamber?
“sorry, pyre, your comment was deleted as this is a whites only community. :)”
It’s just not a good look, or something I want to see here on an open source platform. :/
“why is gay pride ok but white pride bad?” can’t believe I’m having these conversations in the year of our lord current year
Well, no. I think you’re just not listening to what I’m saying, and I don’t really have a better way to get it across to you right now.
Have a good rest of your day!
Have a good rest of your day!
I would like to inform you than ending a comment like this to dismiss further discussion as often as you do is not the most healthy or useful practice.
It’s called not having anything else to add to a conversation that is going nowhere. It’s not that deep.
But you continue to reply, so you do have something to add
a variation of the ‘thought terminating cliche’
That was literally what you were saying.
If the genders were swapped and you find it a problem then it’s a problem either way. Make it private or fuck off.
“HoW wIlL new UsErS fInD iT!?!?!?”
I don’t fucking care.
You are the kind of person that makes a no men rule necessary.
WomensStuff is trans affirming so the solution is obvious!
On the one hand, boobs, on the other, not being able to pee standing and less rights
You don’t have to get bottom surgery, unless you want to.
How about just a little HRT, as a treat?
:3
i mean. technically everyone can pee standing (barring medical concerns). it just might be slipperier than intended.
Fluid dynamics.
As the urine travels down your urethra it is under almost equal pressure from all sides. As the liquid escapes it loses contact with the vessel.
Through a process called adhesion the water in your product will experience a drag effect as the contact with the waste channel is extinguished. This drag is greatest in areas that contain the most perturbation.
The shape of the orifice that produces the stream produces the vast majority of the perturbative influence.
In this case the opening is a slit which produces semi-toroidal flows in the medium at the polar vertices.
Combine these forces (The sudden loss of pressure, the semi-toroidal flows, and adhesion) and the net effect is a torsion force on the stream.
The torsion force impels the fluid to twist and cohesion (water molecules are kind of like tiny magnets and really want to stick together) keeps the stream together.
There you have it. Why your urine spirals instead of just flowing out like a garden hose.
The spongy urethra runs along the length of the penis on its ventral (underneath) surface… This produces a spiral stream of urine and has the effect of cleaning the external urethral meatus. The lack of an equivalent mechanism in the female urethra partly explains why urinary tract infections occur so much more frequently in females.
ohhh til. thanks. good bot.
Beep boop bloop! 🤖
my granny ran a bar. The women’s bathroom was out of order so she tells the gals to use the stall in the men’s until the plumber could get to it that night. The barmaid goes in to mop up after close and there’s a damn shoe print on the wall next to the urinal 🤣
I don’t see how that’s related to women also being able to piss standing up, but I appreciate the lesson in piss fluid dynamics 👍
Urgh, as a man, “fewer rights”
Having a penis doesn’t cause dysphoria in all trans women. You can be a woman and still pee standing up! Unless you’re in a public bathroom in a red state.
I’m just here for the bruised male egos. I’m male, and I find the but what do you mean I’m not welcome there comments entertaining.
I’m with you, OP: they shouldn’t have to restrict their visibility to avoid a demographic they don’t want to have in their community. Women should have a space to talk to women only, if they so desire. Those complaining about it need to realize that places where men are not welcome exist in the real world, and yet there aren’t a bunch of dudes protesting to be allowed into a women’s change room at the Rec center.
they don’t want to have in their community
That’s not even the case, they just don’t want us to participate actively.
Fucking exactly. Like, I blocked the community because I almost posted there several times without realizing. I didn’t want to make extra work for the mods there, so I hit the block button. That’s it, that’s all it takes. The community should be public so women can easily find it. Blocking a community isn’t an inherently negative thing, you should block stuff that isn’t relevant to you. If you’re good at remembering that you shouldn’t post there and like to read the posts, then don’t block it.
Would people be as upset if it was a community for gay men? I obviously can’t know, but I don’t think there’d be this much furor. Why is this so emotionally challenging for some people to accept? I can guess, but I won’t do so here.
So the main reason why I vocally support feminist and lgbt causes is obviously because it is always the right time to do what is right. But a close second motivation is because I genuinely enjoy seeing how much the “no step on snek” crowd hates it when anyone else tells them to mind their own fucking business.
Its like attending a big fair and there are thousands of open stages for public discussions. Each stage hosts one of many different topics. A single one (!) of these stages is “female-speakers only”. And these neckbeards are throwing a tantrum that this single stage is a safe space for women.
As a straight white cis-man I feel ashamed when seeing other men acting like this.
It’s more like that stage only allows women participants. But the stage example doesn’t work well because a forum is not a stage.
Either way, I take issue with the idea that a male participation makes a space inherently unsafe. You didn’t say it explicitly, but you kinda implied it.
I think this is not only false, but it’s divisive and it’s a terrible narrative to build that harms cohesion in the face of class struggle.
Oh crap!
I checked, and I’ve made one comment there (deleted by mods). Sorry XD
Easy to miss when it pops up in the all feed every so often. If you’re not paying attention you might just do it.
Not a big deal, it’s more meant towards preventing the "As a man … " comments that pile on to tell women that misogyny is all in their heads
Me too. Didn’t know the rule. Also that sexist. But hell as man Askwomen on Reddit would delete a post if made by a man.
What I find interesting here is that this all self identification and self reporting.
There’s no mechanism in Lemmy to force a user into such identification, so it is all voluntary.
“Men don’t feel as deeply as people like to imagine they do” - an idiot who has apparently never read men acting like absolute fannies literally all over the internet forever.
I think I remember that post and said you’re correct.
