omg guys calm down holy fuck. I swear to God progressive and leftists are the masters of infighting, I wish we could not squabble like this. whatever anyone is doing is good, I know it comes from a good place but we’ve got to stop all this incessant bitter. people on the right go along with whatever batshit insane plan their chosen lunatics shovel out, while we debate about semantics and methods lmao
The civil war that follows isn’t even the difficult part.
The difficult part is coming up with a vision for the time after the civil war. And that’s gonna be difficult. If americans couldn’t agree on a policy before 2025, why would they be able to come up with one after that?
I just want to mention that there’s a series of difficulties:
- practically, a good 20% - 30% are still backing trump, especially among “republicans for life”. It would be easy to topple a government if 99% of the population despised it, but if 20% back it, it’s difficult because it can retract and re-collect strength.
- normally, conflicts are decided by who can stay solvent longer, i.e. who has more money. normally, that would be blue states, but if trump can just print money through the federal reserve, then that kinda makes that point more questionable. blue states kinda would have to start using their own currency, or some foreign currency like the canadian dollar or the mexican pesos, to be fiscally independent from washington. that’s a logistic challenge to pull off so quickly. but it can be done.
- then there’s a shitload of cultural issues. the vietnam kicked the american’s butt because they were fierce and willing to die for their cause, because they were willing to die for their community. america doesn’t have communities like that, america is very atomistic, i.e. everybody fights for themselves. establishing a good sense of community is a whole lot of work and takes a long time. i don’t see it happening overnight.
“today we declare independence from the USA” was a particularly nice headline from the guardian
Is it possible ? Can US americans revolt against their own government ?
Unfortunately probably not in this day and age. Cutting-edge identification AI and drone tech, and of course weaponry, will be used against the civilian population. It has all been subverted to oppress us and control us.
The biggest problem is, that this isn’t a government issue. A lot of people still stand behind that government so overthrowing the government would likely lead to a civil war.
No it’s communism
The state necessarily has a monopoly on violence; it’s part of what makes it the State. But what choice do the People have when the power of the state is seized by a group determined to use that power against its own population? The USA is famously “invasion proof” but there is nothing in place to protect us from such abuse. The only response that could stop a protracted guerilla style resistance is the total dissolution of the senate and house with immediate emergency elections to replace 100% of the members
Be careful though, emergency dissolution of the Senate is exactly how Palpatine gained power. There has to be a careful plan and new system ready to go and not just fall to the one person it shouldn’t.
I know it’s fiction, but just saying. Dissolving it is one thing, but having a coherent plan is another.
Its not even fiction. Palpatine’s rise to power is based on actual history. Both the Roman Empire and WW2 Germany had that happen.
I mean true. At least Germany and Romans didn’t have JarJar.
The monopoly on violence for the most part comes from the military, so the choice they have is a military coup. Problem is he’s stacked the military with loyalists. But also what you said.
I mean this is actually what the second amendment was for, it would be nice if the NRA said something.
If you go left enough you get your guns back.
He stacked military leadership with loyalists. It’s still each and every individual soldiers responsibility to determine for themselves whether they will follow an order if they believe it to be unjust. Many in the military are Maga, but there will be many that would refuse such orders as well… Basically, I’m just trying to say the military isn’t a hivemind. If orders came down to attack us citizens, I’d hope there’d be significant pushback throughout the ranks.
Refuse an order, get court martialled despite all your rights, get dishobourably discharged and lose your livelihood, all for some people you dont know, and greatly negatively affect the lives of those you provide for.
How about a general strike? More than protests but non-violent.
I think it will take more than that to take down a terrorist organization unfortunately
The thing is that the average person in the US still have it pretty good, because they still have their bread and circus to distract them from the creeping fascist takeover.
When people refer to those instances in history where non-violent protest succeeded, the average person was much more afflicted, as in with literal risk of starvation or similar. Modern dictators have long since learnt that you just need to ensure very basic means of sustenance and a helluva lot of entertainment (provided with the willing help of the tech bro oligarchs), to keep the general populace content with events.
I 100% support a general strike, but (1) I think that’s a lot more difficult to organize than revolt, which can be spontaneous, and (2) I don’t think a general strike and a revolt are mutually exclusive tactics.
Lisa murkowski can catch these hands.
I’ll believe it when I see it. The Americans seem perfectly content with how things are.
The MAGAts are the ones content. Majority are not.
Long live King George III
When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.
-United States Declaration of Independence
The declaration really can’t be highlighted like that. It undermines the gravity of the letter, but I understand people don’t like to read.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.
Essentially, they say that people are willing to endure suffering for the sake of not having to change their lives. But Then it follows that with
But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism
When all people can no longer ignore that the government is forcing everything to have an absolute ruler, the people will come to the conclusion that the government must end by force.
While a lot of people agree with this, it’s not enough. When I go to work, everyone is still going about their day like nothing has really changed. Too many people still have shelter, food, and medicine. That’s about to change now. And when people experience that, that is the time they will overthrow.
The reason they want revolutionary violence to occur earlier than later is because they still have the opportunity to turn the most brain washed against the rest of us.
I work for an US company and I got a day off, it is curious, cause Im from Costa Rica, and I belong to the bribri indigenous nation, and we commemorate Pa Bru day, an ancient leader who stopped Spanish incursions to our land in 1710. So I wish, from the deepest of my soul and for my ancestor that you, US fellows, rebel!
It sucks that the USA is associated with the bald eagle because IMO it’s still a beautiful bird and it did nothing to deserve the association. And also for me, the fact that they sound like seagulls makes them even more relatable because it has an annoying voice just like me 😆
Ikr, they sound so funny and not at all like the majestic yet hyper masculine beasts they are usually portrayed as.
They’re wimpy birds and eat dead shit like vultures. I hate bald eagles.
The only times americans revolted against their government was when americans were fighting to KEEP slavery. So I wouldnt get my hopes up.
While this is true, the Million Man March was not supposed to be a peaceful protest. Malcolm X talked about how Martin Luther King’s speech pacified what could have been a turning point in history.
Also the government has destroyed any positive movements but making laws indirectly making those movements illegal and killing leaders of any significant movement.
The anti marijuana laws is a great example of shutting down a hippie movement and any positive black groups at the time.
The killing of leaders is also particularly damaging because new leaders weren’t able to trust people in their own organization. For example the man that killed Malcolm X was from his own movement. This created paranoia for people with in the movements.
We need to grow our numbers! The only way we can do that is with continued non-violent organized protest. Violence will only reduce our numbers and suppress our resistance.
Erica Chenoweth has a very well researched presentation on the success of non-violent resistance overthrowing dictatorships with only 3.5% of the population. I highly recommend it.
Come out today for the Free America protest! We also have the Good Trouble Lives On protest on July 17th.
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They’re finally doing one on a weekday? Excellent. I like the concept of these protests but they seem so trivial when they involve people pretty much just hanging out with signs in front of empty government buildings. Having it on a weekday means disrupting business and work schedules. Don’t let them ignore you.
I still cannot fathom why they scheduled on a weekday for the next one. If you want turnout schedule for the weekends.
I know people should go out regardless, but they have bills to pay. A lot of people can’t afford to miss a shift and vacation time is far too limited
Because defending your democracy isn’t a weekend fucking sport. How many days a week are the fascists trying to tear down your democracy? Because that’s the same energy you need to bring to defend it.
No need to come at me, the fact of the matter is the majority of people won’t take time. I take the time, but most won’t. If you want the biggest impact you’ll always draw the largest crowds on a weekend.
I don’t disagree with you I’m just being pragmatic. A protest of 1,500 is a bigger deal than a protest of 200. That’s the typical difference in my city with weekend vs weekday protests
I work weekends, so it’s hard for me to attend weekday stuff. But I took off of work on a Saturday to protest, because we need people out there. So I say do it on the weekdays too, and have people call-in to work to go.
Peaceful disruption by having mass call-ins on protest days; because it matters and it makes the protests harder to ignore when people aren’t going into work every time a protest happens. Keep it happening, and keep the pressure up. I can’t afford a vacation anyway, so I’ll save my PTO to get out there and call-in to work whenever. My time off is my time off, don’t matter why I’m calling-in because it’s none of their business
No, they need to be on weekdays. They need to disrupt business and be visible. Weekend protests in front of empty government buildings are worthless.
It just simply won’t have the same turnout. Frankly I think weekend protests are more visible since the average person is more likely to be out and about and not at their job.
I think making the people see it and then you pressure the politicians. The politicians don’t give a fuck if thousands of people are gathered outside a building.
I attend my local protests and take the time off to do so. The last no kings protests pulled well over 1,000. Other weekend protests typically pull around 300 - 400 people. Weekday protests typically pull barely 100, if we’re lucky 150 people. It just has less impact.
Hmm. Yeah, maybe. It just seems too easy to ignore the weekend protests. Everyone who has power and money are elsewhere on Saturdays.
At least in my city we are fortunate that the government buildings are located at a key intersection. Weekdays we usually just get heckled by lead brained boomers. Weekends there are way more cars, a more diverse audience, and more support in general.
The lead brained boomers are the ones who need to see it most.
There is little value in preaching to the choir.
I think the lead brained boomers are a lost cause.
The group to convince are the unengaged or those that just vote a certain way without putting much thought.
Fair enough. I work weekends so I haven’t been able to attend any of these yet, and was surprised I can finally go to one. You seem to base your opinions on first hand experience.
First past the post voting system isn’t democratic and can easily be corrupted by Gerrymandering.
I mean yeah, I vibe with this, but did you mean to reply to something else? 😄
No, I meant that revolting against a government without an election system change is replacing one almost dictatorship with another.
I mean again, yeah, I’m an anarchist, and obviously not just any revolt is gonna cut it. Although instead of an election system to elect representatives in a “representative” liberal “democracy”, I think we can do a lot better than that.
