Wait, so this is not about the power menu, it’s about the pop up when clicking on your account picture bubble if you’re signed in to a MS account. They aren’t adding a step to logging out of your local Windows user, just to logging out of your Microsoft account if you’re using that as a login for Windows, OneDrive and Office365.
The “Lock” button also has a new home—it now sits in the power menu alongside “Shut down,” “Restart,” and “Sleep” options.
THAT is where the Lock button was? Not gonna lie, I’ve been Windows-L-ing so long I didn’t even know they had moved that to the account bubble.
I’ll be honest, the article is a bit overdramatic. Yeah, they are surfacing your services there to upsell you on the ones you don’t have, but it’s actually not a useless piece of info (currently finding your subscriptions is an ordeal) and none of the functionality is gone. It is true that a lot of UX things around Win11 have gotten worse, though. I’m currently using additional software to replace the taskbar (which will do the Start menu, too, if you want) because the inability to move it to the sides is ridiculous on the OS you’re most likely to pair with an ultrawide monitor.
I’ll be honest, the article is a bit overdramatic. Yeah, they are surfacing your services there to upsell you on the ones you don’t have, but it’s actually not a useless piece of info (currently finding your subscriptions is an ordeal) and none of the functionality is gone.
Look up “boiling a frog”
They count on this exact reaction.
Every time they implement these little bullshit changes, people inevitably go “It’s annoying but it’s not that big a deal.” And then they do more of it a few months later.
The article isn’t being hyperbolic because it’s reacting to the overall trend that this is yet another step forward in. Because the writer and everyone here knows it will get worse and worse over time.
Dark patterns are, by design, slow and incremental so as not to trigger too much pushback at once. People need to start being more aware of it and pushing back on it when they see it.
And yes, that information is probably useful to some people, but that doesn’t in any way justify hiding the options that used to be there.
Look up “boiling a frog”
It’s a metaphor.
It’s a widely-understood phrase/metaphor. Nobody is saying Microsoft literally boils millions of frogs.
What is it with Redditors/Lemmings taking a turn of phrase, interpreting it extremely literally, and completely missing the point?
That’s what the win XP search dog was for.
They’d send it out hunting for frogs so that they can boil them all.Bill Gates first programme was a reverse frogger game, he’d get to drive the cars and score get points for squishing frogs.
I think it was called Grand Theft Amphibian or something. The dude just really hates frogs.-
Autism, personally speaking.
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I knew it was a metaphor, but it’s also a lie and does not actually happen.
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That’s actually the result of “looking it up”, which was the instruction.
What is it with you that makes you so incapable of reasoning that someone might know what it means and also want to point out that it’s bullshit?
It doesn’t matter that interpreted literally, it’s not what happens to frogs. That’s not the point of the phrase, and certainly not the point the other commenter was making.
They were trying to talk about Microsoft’s business practices, not about what happens if you were to literally start boiling a frog. Yes, we know they aren’t fine with it, it’s extremely well-known and completely irrelevant.
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Do you know the term “trust thermocline”?
Basically it described a problem with the boiling the frog technique. There’s a point for every user at which they’re fed up with the bullshit, lose all trust in you(r company) and are hard to impossible to get back as a customer. Every customer leaving has a little unnoticeable effect on you, but with time there will be so many people that you lost that all your tactics to lock your users in will fail.
Yeeeeah, but this isn’t a dark pattern, though. That’s what I’m saying.
The article really wants it to be, but… well, it’s not. The option to log out remains in the same place as the rest of your account info, and the account info they are surfacing is actually useful and relevant to how much money you’re spending. They are making it easier to subscribe, for sure, but also to cancel, which used to be pretty hidden away.
I get that this fits into a wider pattern for both MS and other major software companies, but if they inch towards the boiled frog at this pace we’re probably fine.
Now, if they ever try (again) to make MS accounts mandatory for Windows or to move Windows to a sub, we can have this conversation. As others said below, when you try to inch people towards dealbreakers you can find yourself losing ground very quickly. Especially if a new comparable alternative surfaces at the same time.
As much as everyone pushes Linux, it’s not a suitable replacement in a lot of scenarios
What are some of these scenarios?
It is in far more situations that it isn’t
Nothing productive mentioning the situations it can’t do while ignoring the massive amount of situations it can do far better
But it is a suitable replacement in a lot of scenarios. Most scenarios. The only time it isn’t is in niche specialty situations.
Not really. Adobe creative cloud is used my almost all graphic/media professionals, yet doesn’t work on Linux… that’s not very niche
That is a niche. its a large niche, but its still a niche.
graphic/media professionalsadobe usersAlthough it’s a bloated mess, it’s the standard for a reason. Affinity is starting to catch up, but the complete Adobe suite has no real competition.
And fwiw, most computer users still aren’t Adobe CC users.
The problem is mostly that those niches count up, so that quite a lot of people fit in one of those niches.
I happen to fit in 3 niches at the same time: VR, Music and Professional design.
VR? No linux. Music production? Depending on your VSTs, No linux. Playing Music live? Depending on VSTs, No linux. Professional design? No Linux.
I currently actively trying to switch to Linux, despite its apparant shortcomings in above applications. It’s quite the challenge. Wine seems to install quite some stuff, but from what I’ve read it’s a crabshoot if stuff breaks after every update…
Is there something like PowerToys Run for KDE? That’s one of the utilities I would miss the most when switching to Linux.
Yeah, KRunner, and it’s been around longer than Powertoys.
I never really used it on Windows so I don’t know if it has all the same features, but there’s probably some way to make whatever you need from it work.
The whole point of PowerToys was essentially to implement the features Windows was missing that the Linux DEs had already.
PopOS’s COSMIC menu is like that I think (you can search files, the web, even stuff like turning volume up and down)? But I’ve never tried to run it outside of PopOS.
I use Pop_Os on my desktop, but that’s nowhere near PowerToys. Even the search is barebones when you compare it with PowerToys using the Everything search plugins.
Also PowerToys has a lot more to offer than the search: mouse shake features, keyboard remapping, a great window manager with shortcuts, files preview and much more.
I know there are some decent alternatives in MacOS, but I haven’t found a proper replacement for that on Linux.
kde really has a LOT of power, most of the stuff you mentioned afiak. its not a 1 to 1 clone of powertoys obviously, so it has a lot of stuff thats not in powertoys, and is lacking some stuff thats in it,l but the kde desktop also has support for plugins, so you should be able to fill in the gaps
But in order to use that, I need to get replace the current Pop_Os Gnome interface, right? I cannot use that as an application, like PowerToys does, or can I?
ok so the thing with kde is that you can replace your pop_os gnome interface with it, but it would probably cause issues, so itd probably be simpler to just switc hto a different distribution instead. Id recommend tuxedo os
Fair. Powertoys is really extensive. I quite like Pop (or gnome’s? Not sure) tiling window manager though.
That’s a Pop addition, although you can easily use it on any other Gnome desktop by installing it as an extension
Bloat vs. Bloat. FIGHT!
No.
Explain what you mean by bloat please
There is nothing you can’t uninstall on Linux. Linux distros, let alone desktop environments, really can’t qualify as bloat
There are even enough mainstream distros to let you choose one that meets your needs with little or nothing you need to trim
Great to know. Not that I ever fucking use that menu, opting to use the sleep button on my keyboard instead.
Anyone who can should switch to Linux. Most of us can, I have done so on my laptop. I have tried gaming on Linux too and it’s fucking fantastic though I personally had an edge case issue that barely anyone will ever meet and had to go back. Do not let that discourage you from trying, however. Cyberpunk, as an example, was wonderful on Linux. No issues. As soon as my issues are sorted, something that will happen sooner or later, I will switch that pc in an instant!
Is there somewhere a guide in how to get started with gaming on Linux?
Tbh it’s pretty easy. Install Linux, install Steam.
Try Linux Mint, specifically. Very easy to install, runs on everything, just works. And gaming really is as easy as installing Steam, even for non Steam games.
Mint is great! Not my personal choice but it does work out of the box and is easy to use!
It’s perfect for anyone who wants to switch from Windows with minimal hassle. There are plenty of other great distros, of course, but choosing one can be a bit overwhelming at first. That’s why Mint is such an easy recommendation. It’ll get you started, may well be all you ever need and once you’re more into it, you’ll better understand what to choose.
Exactly! I think Mint is a great choice. I wouldn’t recommend anyone unfamiliar uses anything else unless they have very specific needs.
What of Indie games that I download from the developer’s page or other stores?
Also, how is the update process of Mint these days for make versions? Is it a complete reinstall of the system? I might opt for a rolling distro for that purpose.
You can add non steam games to steam and it’ll run them via proton, can be pretty effortless in most scenarios. Otherwise, you can install Lutris and there’s a significant chance there’ll be an entry for how to run the game you want
I read that a lot. Somehow I’m not into adding all my games into the Steam client, though I am not totally opposed if there’s no other option. That’s due to my inherent trust issues with gaming platforms.
Might give Lutris a shot.
Whatever happened to PlayOnLinux?
POL is still around, it’s just not quite as user friendly as Lutris. I use Lutris for Battle.net games and older titles where I have a physical disk. Easier than trying to add them to steam IMHO.
The major updates can be done though the software manager and have been completely painless for me so far. If you are concerned with always having the latest stuff, Mint might not be ideal for you. They’re pretty conservative with updates so they can be a few versions behind on some stuff. That’s the downside of the “everything just works” mantra.
WTF happened to Microsoft? What a fall. Is this a leadership thing?
They were always about screwing over consumers to make money. The only thing that changed is that they’ve become increasingly unsubtle about it.
Their way to screw customers with W2K was very persuasive. Such a clean UI, everything looking so relaxed and, eh, not commercialized. That startup sound. Those wallpapers.
Later I learned that that’s also when they released those Unix services for Windows (may have swapped words), with which you really could have something practical with an X server and POSIX-compatible applications and so on.
And compared to W9x it was very stable.
Turns out you can make more money by reducing usability and user choice in an entrenched product because hardly anyone will baulk and jump ship to a different product.
With how aggressive Microsoft is becoming with ads, services, and data collection they could at least make Windows itself free.
But no, you still have to pay £100+ per license to have the pleasure of putting up with this crap.
Piracy is not a real solution to the problem. Microsoft allows these sorts of things to exist in the background because they would rather lose out on some sales than lose market share.
Piracy is their weapon. If not for piracy, ex-USSR countries wouldn’t transition to Windows till around 2009, and I’d expect that in such an alternative reality they wouldn’t then too.
Kinda the same thing as winrar. They rather have consumers get used to it so the companies they work at have a higher chance of buying licenses. That’s where the real money is.
aka spyware
Piracy is the solution when what you think you’re buying is not what you’re getting and the company that you’re buying changes the product without your consent.
Ding ding ding!
Like how Adobe puts minimal effort into protecting from cracks for their software.
They’d much rather have little Jimmy and a million others pirate PS at home and get used to the workflow, so that businesses pay out big recurring fees for Adobe’s tools, which they will if that’s what everybody knows how to use.
People pay for this?
Usually they just over-pay for their computer because you can’t really buy a system without Windows pre-installed (unless you build it).
I have so many computers that came with Windows installations that I never even booted into.
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Which retail store have you ever walked into that had a PC on display with no OS?
I don’t know if the people walking into a brick-and-mortar for a prebuilt PC are making decisions beyond “what’s available” and “what’s in my budget”.
There are absolutely online stores that do that, but they’re usually gamer-focused, so there’s three issues;
Note: I’m taking about laptops, because it’s all I’ve bought for the last decade or more;
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The non-gamer focused stores rarely (if ever) have the option (Lenovo, Dell, Microsoft, etc).
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The gamer focused stores usually sell hardware that runs Linux like shit because the hardware needs extremely specific drivers (which isn’t necessarily an issue for Linux, but if it doesn’t exist yet, you’re either building them yourself, or waiting for someone else to do so).
- Note: Most Clevo systems - that are private-labeled by the likes if IBuyPower, OriginPC, etc - run Linux really well. Some of these sellers make custom hardware, or sell other private-label systems, so your milage may vary.
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The gamer focused stores are usually patroned by people who are all in on Windows gaming, because they don’t do much else with the system, so they don’t experience the kinds of annoyances that power users would gripe about (which is why the above point doesn’t compel those sellers to do anything different).
- And before someone corrects me: Gamers are not inherently power users, they just have powerful systems. It used to be that powerful systems were only buildable and maintenable by power users, but that hasn’t been true for years. If all you do is install and click “play”, you aren’t a power user.
As for desktops, I really couldn’t say. Haven’t been paying attention for years. It’s possible that you could buy a system without a hard drive, never mind an OS.
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In total, I expect this to cost about a minute or two of my life if they never remove the ads. This figure is fairly typical for daily windows users, of which ~400kk are on win11. Microsoft will steal ~1.5*400,000,000 minutes with these ads. Ads that nearly no one will even consider clicking. 600,000,000 minutes=10,000,000 hours=1140 years. Multiple lifetimes in aggregate, all to be thrown away for nothing. I’d like to send a very strongly worded knot tying tutorial to Satya Nadella and Brad Smith.
Lots of people will spend a few hours then several tens of minutes monthly or so finding out how and then disabling the ads after each update
Now figure out how much that is in lost revenue and write a headline like „Microsoft to lose economy one million gazzillion $“.
lost revenue
You can be sure this is retail only.
Enterprise Windows won’t have this feature and now appears to have added value for corporate customers.
That why I pay my gold partner friend for a copy of enterprise he gives to his developers.
What is Window 365? Is it a cloud based OS? If Yes, then all High End Machine will become useless?
It’s what Microsoft opted to call their office suite now. So Office365 is now officially Microsoft 365 in an effort to acknowledge that your office work has now completely left their focus and they are only concentrating on themselves
its ‘msoffice as a service’… and it sucks donkey balls. imagine tryin to manipulate a giant dataset in a web version of excel in a browser tab. annoying enough in the binary, impossible in ‘office365-excel’
I mean, even desktop excel isn’t great for that. Doubley so if you have to use dates/times and timezones
Bruh
Another day, another piece of enshittification by MS, another reason to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Linus Torvalds, if you can spare a few minutes.
What I love the most about Windows is just how easy it is to find all the user settings I need to change. And I super appreciate how they configure things that work so perfect for me. It’s like I never need to make decisions of my own, they can read my mind. /S
theyre turning the deskop into a mobile platform which is inherently difficult to mod. this is so they can provide it as a service to any device.
You got me on the first half
I always laugh when someone says Linux has fragmented settings. Windows has that buddy. the fucking MOUSE SENSITIVITY setting is in a windows 7 UI.
All that AI can’t pay for itself, I guess.
Jesus Fucking Christ. They really want people to switch to Linux, don’t they?
Microsoft should stop trying to become another Apple. This is not going to work.
as soon as they require a microsoft account to use versions of windows, they are apple… minus the mobile, but plus a metric shittone of things apple doesnt.
not that any of that is good, microsoft should die in a fire… but theyve spent 20 years building an OS-as-a-service platform and its coming to fruition. they might be slow, but rest assured they will get their captured, vertically integrated audience.
You don’t need an apple account to use a Mac. If you just want to enter a username and set a password, that’s all you need to do. If you want everything synced between another Mac or iPhone and so on, sign into iCloud. But you don’t HAVE to, just skip it.
There has to be a point of diminishing returns for them with this kind of behavior. This is just so aggravating.
I’d wager they are hoping to entrap as many people as they can on the platform, with their TPM restrictions, and store restrictions, and account restrictions, that sunk cost fallacy will keep the overwhelming bulk of people stuck in their web.
I’d also wager that enterprise probably doesnt have any of this bullshit
Can confirm, I run enterprise at home and have yet to see some of these shenanigans I’ve seen posted.
But there’s still enough I hate about Windows 11 that I’m slowly transitioning to Linux and then just running windows in a VM for things there aren’t good alternatives for.
Ads have evolved into a cancer that is just growing and growing, making everything around them worse.
Ads have always been a cancer.
Not exactly. When the webmaster you knew put a banner in the corner of their site with ads from one and the same source, in one and the same place, not popping up and not bothering you, it really felt fine. I even felt the urge to click that and see where it leads.
Remember also Opera free version with that ad banner.
🤮
Yeah. I used to run a website back in the very early 2000s that a local bicycle seller/repair shop used to pay me to have a little static banner for. It was just an image, that’s it. No tracking, no malware, no silly animations or covering content, etc. It was unobtrusive.
Did I get a huge amount of money? No. But it paid for maintenance and made me feel like the effort I was putting into the site wasn’t wasted. It was relevant to the site content (cycling club in my town) and so was probably an effective advertisement.
Ads aren’t automatically evil, but the way they exist now definitely is. I wouldn’t dream of browsing the web without Firefox+Ublock origin.
The unbridled greed of companies has made me go out of the way to remove them all from my life. If they had been more restrained, I’d have happily accepted some ads as being the price I pay for using the web.
The way they exist now is similar to taxi drivers in airports. You simply know that if something is being advertised this way, it’s likely not what you need and probably a scam. So anything you don’t find intentionally and not via ads becomes useless, so ads become useless.
The best part is when spammers and ad generators realized how easy it is to use GPT to automate and increased the number of spam bots and ads.
