Roku is exploring ways to show consumers ads on its TVs even when they are not using its streaming platform: The company has been looking into injecting ads into the video feeds of third-party devices connected to its TVs, according to a recent patent filing.
This way, when an owner of a Roku TV takes a short break from playing a game on their Xbox, or streaming something on an Apple TV device connected to the TV set, Roku would use that break to show ads. Roku engineers have even explored ways to figure out what the consumer is doing with their TV-connected device in order to display relevant advertising.
I don’t get it… Wouldn’t it be easier for Roku to just declare bankruptcy and saves themselves the trouble?
I’ve never given money to roku, and now I’ll never will
I’ve given them money and now I want it back.
Page 42069 of the TOS makes this legal.
Well, that would be a way to guarantee I buy a new TV…
Any company trying to use the HDMI-CEC protocol in such a subversive manner should lose their license to the HDMI standard IMO.
The bastards that control the hdmi standard: yeah!
Roku: 💰
Bastards: actually no
Collectivism: 💰💰 Fuck Roku.
It’s not like they ever properly implemented it in the first place.
I’m mad that they did their broken implementation of sending control codes between devices that never works. I have to disable it on everything so that the correct input gets set.
And then they are killing the universal remote industry so there is nothing to replace it with.
The HDMI forum is run by big companies so that is not happening, sorry
Death to HDMI. DisplayPort is the superior port.
I’m sure that a DisplayPort device in a chain can also inject video, but I have to admit that I would kind of like to not have two competing video standards, and my impression is that DisplayPort tends to lead HDMI technically, so…
DisplayPort: We have
- Higher maximum resolution.
- Better support for higher refresh rates.
- Multi-stream transport so you can use a single display cable for multiple monitors.
HDMI: Oh yeah? Well, we have
- Royalties.
- Specifications hidden behind contracts.
- An emphasis on implementing DRM technology that makes it hard to use a capture card.
Fuck HDMI.
An emphasis on implementing DRM technology that makes it hard to use a capture card.
Well, DP supports HDCP too.
Oh and HDMI prevents open source GPU drivers supporting HDMI 2.1 natively.
You know HDMI is not some big secret they can use it without the license and ship from overseas like 90% of shit shipped from China.
That only works if you’re headquartered in China.
Not that the HDMI Fourm will stop them, anyway. More likely, the companies involved will want to license Roku’s patent.
For cheap gizmos I can see a chinese seller getting away with it (rebranding under another weird name like AWOYO or something, in a sea of identical devices under different brand names), but not a large business like Roku.
Funnily enough, Flipper did exactly that and the Zero is still doing fine. It’s a loophole, but it does seem to be working fine-ish.
HDMI Forum have instead resorted to taking GPU manufacturers hostage because they don’t want any specs leaking, that’s why AMD were denied being allowed to support latest HDMI in their free Linux drivers.
The shittiest of enshitifications.
Roku has always been a shitty company that wants to monetize everything. People are finally waking up. How many of us have a Roku remote that advertises a useless or bankrupt streaming service?
I know I’m old, but I miss having numbers on my remote.
Now I have a “sling” and a “crackle” button. 🙁
Yeah, I do miss being able to quickly type a code to jump to a known broadcaster. Opening up a menu is slower than jumping direct to said thing.
The Roku buttons solves that a little bit, but there is only 4, you can’t change them, and they prioritize featuring whoever pays up.
We need an anti-awards show for shit like this.
I like that. If there was a site that did like The Razzies for movies but for technology enshitification, I would definitely watch, and probably follow a blog if it was done well
Youre in luck!
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=NXhmnQzZ7n8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The plungies. Winners receive golden plungers
Plungers wrapped in cheap tinfoil, don’t want to give them anything they can melt down and sell
Roku, somehow becoming shittier than Twitter
Roku still gives me a lot more valuable content
Just because they patented it doesn’t mean it will happen. Sony patented this evil idea.
We are not far from “please drink verification can”
error! user is attempting to steal lemmy premium™
MCDONALD’S!
If McDonald’s needs a surefire way to make me not go to a McDonald’s ever again, that’s perfect.
If Sony patented this idea, does it mean nobody else can use it until it expires? Good guy Sony always looking out for us
I kind of feel like starting a non profit that solely creates patents for evil ideas with no intention of ever licensing them
Patent trollery, but white hat? I can get behind that
I think you can still pay to license patented technology for commercial use if the patent holder is willing. Just because they haven’t used it yet doesn’t mean they won’t though!
Our TV can fortunately bypass all the “smart” shit, and run like dumb monitor, maybe because it’s an older TV? We use it with an external computer with Linux mediacenter, where we have full control and no adds.
Would it even be possible to run a new “smart” TV as a dumb monitor?We are very happy with our TV, because we can run it as a plain monitor no problem, but it could break.
Would it even be possible to run a new “smart” TV as a dumb monitor?
Never connecting the TV to the internet and never updating the firmware usually works. If they are determined to show you ads, they may not let you use the TV without an internet connection though. I would suggest that you avoid buying a roku TV.
Okay but they can also mesh the TVs with your neighbour’s tv of the same brand so that if your neighbour’s TV has internet, your TV can leapfrog onto his tv to download the ads
Open the TV, find the antenna, desolder it and replace it with a 50 ohm resistor. Now the WiFI will no longer have enough range to connect to your neighbors.
You’re hired!
Cool so what are some good Roku alternatives?
I’ve always loved my Apple TVs.
Get an A/V receiver, a computer monitor or dumb TV, and speakers. Then you can get a Roku streaming player and it cannot show you anything when you do not have its input selected on the receiver.
Even an inexpensive pair of bookshelf speakers placed on either side of the TV will sound better than built-in TV speakers. Add a center speaker and a subwoofer drastically improved sound.
Non-4k AV receivers are dirt cheap used.
A simple PC, you can also use it to browse, download stuff, Steam stream etc. The possibilities are endless
Any used office pc from Craiglist for <$200, wiped and reinstalled with linux… self contained mini PC NUC boxes are also a very good bang-for-buck these days
I run an LG OLED TV (disconnected from network), AppleTV, and my own media server. I haven’t seen an ad in my TV for years.
Nothing, all TVs are crap.
The best options are usually buying large “monitors” or digital signage. However these both tend to be more expensive than a similar TV. Monitors also often lack a remote which may be valuable for a TV and digital signage may have less input ports than you may want.
I would love if a major manufacturer made a TV that just displayed what signals I put into it.
Right now the best option still seems to buy a Roku TV and never connect it to the internet. But some features will be disabled. For example Miracast doesn’t work for some explicitable reason until you connect it to the internet. (Then again it barely works anyways, so no major loss)
Right now the best option still seems to buy a Roku TV and never connect it to the internet.
No, your best option is to buy any other TV than a Roku TV, and not connect that TV to the internet.
I blocked my TV from using WiFi, but there have been times I have need to unblock it (like using AirPlay or Google Cast), so it gets updates occasionally. I’m open to throwing my TV straight to the dump and buying another TV to avoid this at all costs.
Personally looking at dumb panels and building OSMC machines to run them.
Is nVidia Shield an alternative?
That’s what I’ve been using for years now. It’s great.
That is definitely way too invasive. Plugging something on to a Roku TV shouldn’t enable them to show you ads through that other device.
I was actually thinking about getting a Roku once too. Really dodged a bullet.
The article says Roku is attempting to detect breaks, which are the only places Roku will try to show you an ad. So you open your inventory in the pause screen to fight a boss and an ad pops out.
The way you wrote this sounds like you think this isn’t that bad of an idea…
It’s not as bad as Dhark thinks, but still pretty bad. Read my last sentence and fully immerse yourself.
It’s absolutely insanely horrible and probably some of the most invasive drm I have ever seen even proposed.
This would require doing deep analysis on all of the content going through the stream. That analysis sure as hell isn’t being done locally since smart TV’s can barely run their own operating systems, so everything getting offloaded to Roku servers and then they get to put ads on whatever they determine to be an appropriate time.
This technology enables censoring and blacking out signals that Roku decides you don’t get to see, or preventing the release of the hijacked stream unless you perform certain actions, or just not releasing the stream at all unless you pay, effectively extorting you.
These cheap smart TVs already give you the worst panels and the worst processors. And now get to be extorted out of your own data being delivered the ten feet from your computer or PlayStation to the TV.
It’s beyond ridiculous.
I wonder if they’re prepared for Microsoft’s lawyers to come knocking when they find out their screen space is being highjacked by another company for profit…
Sounds like popcorn hour to me.
It slowly dawned on video game developers that a lengthy loading screen was actually just an wasted opportunity for a digital billboard.
Dark souls players in shambles.
Used to recommend Roku to others. I will never buy anything from them or recommend them to anyone again.
Someday maybe boards will figure out that “business” people have no idea what they are doing.
They know what they’re doing! Maximizing share price for the next quarter while they jump ship… It’s legitimately disgusting.
Boards only understand “line go up” or “line go down.” If something turns off a few weirdos like us but it lets them sell access to millions of eyeballs they’ll do it.
They’d step over their own dying mother to make a buck.
I mean, if she’s already dying, what’s the issue here? I’m losing money if I have to stop and call 911, when she has a perfectly good phone to do it herself.
History is littered with companies that decided they should “milk” their customers instead of providing new and innovative products. They usually don’t last all that long, but you’re right that the current board members might not gaf about any kind of longer term existence.
That may have been true in the past, but we’re in a corporate fuedal system now, with a bunch of little fiefdoms we can’t escape ruled by people who wish they had the rizz of Henry VIII or Louis XVI
Damage private property, destroy the chains that bind us.
I’ve always found their monetization strategy icky. Their remotes, with streaming service ads on them, always made me feel gross. Especially since those services change every couple years, and you get stuck with remotes plugging stupid services like Blockbuster and Redbox.
To be fair, this is just a patent, not Roku saying they will do this. But if they do, then absolutely.
I don’t want my money used for shit like this so Roku and I are done regardless.of if they exercise this patent or not.
Stand up, raise your hands, and shout, “McDonald’s!”
This would only effect people who are using the roku service built into their tv, yes?
It sounds to be the situation but I wouldn’t put it past them to try and fuck everyone who owns their devices not just people who bought roku tvs
For now, yes. The patent discussed in the article suggests that the Roku TV reads the input HDMI signal even if you aren’t using a Roku App to determine whether you are idle and show ads when the screen doesn’t change much.
Roku is pretty great for what it is, but the day I see such an ad is the day it hits the bin. That would finally bother me into driving the TV with an actual PC.
Isn’t Netflix locked at 720 on pc? I can’t go without 4k hdr Netflix
It’s limited to 720 unless your entire playback system end to end is fully drm secured… this means hdmi certified devices only, single monitor, running unmodified, legit windows. It’s extremely restrictive and even the tiniest system change (like adding a second monitor, or using the wrong cable) almost always breaks it.
Streaming is a cancer.
I’m not sure. These old eyes can’t see the difference and I don’t own 4k hardware. It is possible that you need a locked down system for some content levels.
As a former Roku fan, forced arbitration or a brick was the breaking point. Roku can fuck off.
Forced arbitration is a cancer and should be illegal, but at least it’s useful and technically my 5 yo agreed to it, so how is this legal again?
Is there an anti-ad community on Lemmy? Or another non-Lemmy place to work through blocking/avoiding this bullshit? I’m so fed up with the advertisement industry. I don’t want ads on my devices. I don’t want ads in my operating systems. I don’t want ads in my content. I don’t want ads in the sky. I don’t want ads in the ocean. I don’t want to be forced to see or hear ads while putting gas in my car.
I really can’t emphasis how much I am willing through to rid my life completely of advertisements.
Rate those places online to warn others. fucking hailCorporate nonsense
Perfect. Then people can avoid ads at that gas station by going to another gas station with ads!
That only works while this is still a niche use case. Just wait until they find out how many more places they can shove ads while we are forced to stand/sit somewhere for 20 minutes!
I don’t know if they’re on the fediverse yet but Adbusters has been doing great work in this space for a long time.
Dammmn that takes me back! I had a subscription to their magazine in high school in the early 2000s. HOLY CRAP they’re still selling the Corporate America flag too!
I remember when there were a lot more logos on that flag, too
Look into adgaurd or set up pihole software for dns and have a network device dedicated to blocking ads
I already have Pi-hole with a bunch of additional lists to be blocked. I also cancelled all streaming services that service ads, and I use Adblock. I still see ads occasionally. What do you suggest for dedicated ad-blocking hardware?
Also, I don’t know what to do about the environmental ads.
Make sure you’ve got rules set in your router to redirect Roku’s hardcoded DNS to your custom DNS service.
Some ads can’t be eliminated - for example, if a service delivers ads through the same content servers that the show/movie is coming from.
Roku’s current only saving grace to me is that I can block their shit conveniently. All my Rokus are on my Raspberry Pi in a special group so I can block specific things.
Custom DNS probably explains how the fucking thing throws a pop-up display informing me that I can watch the movie I’m watching using their Roku app instead if I want to. I was wondering how it knew the name of the movies I have been watching, lol. I will probably just go and reset my WiFi password on my router and 50+ devices, or rip the WiFi antenna out of the TV, not sure which yet.
Roku uses hardcoded Google DNS, so you’ll need to make some additional changes on your router to direct their 8.8.x.x addresses to your DNS service. Instructions at the below site are for Unlocator, but I think should work with any custom DNS.
https://support.unlocator.com/article/131-how-to-bypass-forced-dns-on-roku
You are a fucking hero. I couldn’t figure out why my Roku TVs were still able to get ads after blocking everything.
It’s not specifically anti-ad, but the lemmy privacy community regularly discusses ad-blocking as it very much overlaps with privacy.
If the gas pumps have those unlabeled buttons around a screen, try pressing all of em. The pumps around here (nebraska) will mute the audio when you press one of the buttons, it just isn’t labeled. I’ve taken to writing “mute” on the magic-button with a sharpie whenever I pump my gas.
Right side, second button down?
I’ve tried pressing every button at every pump I’ve used in my area and this trick doesn’t work. I want to epoxy the speakers and screen and glitter-bomb the entire thing.
I won’t. But I want to.
Sometimes it’s multiple presses. Around here for example I find that at my local Shell station it’s the second button down on the right side, two or three times.
I was trying to figure out how to shut the one at my local grocery store up and discovered that you can get into the administrative menu if you push two buttons at the same time.
You should install Doom on it.
At the 76 here its also the second down from the right but only needs a single press.
If there’s an exposed speaker hole, a long enough push pin or coat hangar wire can probably ruin the cone and coil.
I really can’t afford to commit a crime by damaging the pumps, but if I found a way to temporarily disable them I’d be all for it.
I reckon you could kill it with a pin in a casual enough way, maybe make it look like you’re just putting a hand there to lean? Also you have like 4 other people come throughout the day and get gas at that same pump, and they do a similar casual hand movement around the speaker.
You’d be safe as houses, probably!
Appreciate the response, but I will stick to my non-criminal protest against the ad industry.
Definitely had to resist the urge myself a few times to jam my keys into the speaker when the mute button method didn’t work.
You’re doin god’s work, sir
Wait, the thing about ads while fueling your car is real?
WTF?!
Years ago I was talking to some engineers at one of the main gas pump manufacturers. They were venting about their company’s partnership with Verifone. While they used to handle credit card reading themselves in the magnetic stripe days, the switch to chip credit cards and readers in the U.S. meant they were going to partner with an established card reader company and Verifone (at least at the time) was the largest and most established in the new chip technology. Verifone was dominating the partnership and making life difficult for the gas pump company, insisting on all sorts of changes to the devices that weren’t necessary for the gas pump but were going to let them do things like run ads at the gas pump. If the pump manufacturer didn’t go along with it, Verifone seemed to have a very credible threat that they were just going to leave and go to the other main gas pump manufacturer. The gas pump companies needed the card reader a lot more than the other way around.
So, these ads have been a long time coming, but it wasn’t the pump manufacturer that had the idea or wanted to do it.
Yep. Just shell stations around here (so far at least)
They’re super loud and in my experience usually political, think local office smear ads and oil lobbyist propaganda.
Well yeah how else are they supposed to make money? /s
Yeah no it’s real and it’s bullshit. They also have ad signage, but that’s been around my whole life, it just keeps getting worse constantly. I remember boycotting the first company to have gas ads, now I don’t have a no ad choice
♥️
One of my local gas stations had that to where it was so loud you can here them in the car. A few weeks after they installed them, someone came by with a hand drill and drilled out all of the speakers. Not sure what happened to that hero but we need more people like them.
While I never condone audio speaker violence, I do want to cheer/salute the activism of the person who did the work.
Maybe try jamming something in too so it stays forever pressed and muted
deleted by creator
I do not like green eggs and spam.
👏🎉
Ugh. Both of these exist already:
https://www.adquick.com/media/transit/train
https://simpleflying.com/inflight-advertising/
Sigh. They also have them in the rain:
https://www.streetadvertisingservices.com/discipline/rain-advertising
Jesus christ no. They’re bombarding adds on sidewalks AND putting some extra PFAS shit in the environment? Is this even legal?
I’m still running an older version of NextPVR with three usb tuners and Comskip.exe - it gets most of the ads out of free to air automatically.
Ublock origin and / or expressvpn seem to block some ads on the catch up services, but not all.
YouTube with Ublock origin and Sponsorblock work well.
Newpipe Sponsorblock fork is good as well.
I can’t understand why anyone’s money entitles them to put their mental parasites into my attention space. They aren’t paying me, and I wouldn’t take their money no matter how much they were offering. For fuck’s sake, I don’t even want to experience the offer of money for ad attention.
If this happens I will find the person responsible and punch their dad in the cock
Unless that person happens to be with their dad, that would then require finding their dad. That’s a whole extra person to find. It might be easier to skip straight to finding their dad.
The real treasure is the cocks we punch along the way.
