Originally this was a reply to this article about a Windows feature called Recall, but there’s a good argument the author’s concerns resonate far beyond Windows and Meta to proprietary generally.
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YOU CAN’T DENY THE WAVEEEEE
I’m been using linux mint for over a year now, and it is legit liberating.
Its a bit odd to see an employee of a company that has always had a terrible privacy policy now be suddenly alarmed.
He is kinda whistle-blowing about the next level of evil. Up and coming.
Things have changed. Before, the worst Facebook could do to its critics was ban them and those that they knew. Now Facebook can have ICE turnover your house without a warrant for a troll post. A private company is now working to suppress a specific kind of conversation that questions the judgement and actions of those in power. It’s a subtle but very dangerous difference in why a bad EULA may not have previously caused concern but the new one is.
I’d be leery about posting anything on any platform, especially one that has even your email or other personal info attached to it. Even on a random day that I go browse ahem the other place, I don’t really comment anymore. I don’t even have my email tied to that account, but I don’t trust spez’s greedy little pig boy ass, and I’m doing my damn best to fly under the radar while they build their databases. Nor would I trust MS, Google, or even Apple to not be tracking every thought and action online for resistance monitoring.
Well, if they want to intimidate everybody who says anything anti-Trump…they’re going to be very busy. What I’m worried about are leaders of movements.
intimidating everyone is a lot of work, but having them on the list can be useful to disperse wherever they plan on doing next, or purge attempts to organize in a more decentralized way.
it can even be used to manipulate or target certain cohorts with propaganda and stuff in a way not possible before. surveillance brings control.
Manipulated, you say? With propaganda?
Well, clearly this is a bridge too far! The Trump administration can never get away with this!
and stuff
people are starting to get disappeared to concentration camps atm too.
What are you scared of? There’s more of us than there are of them. Hiding in the shadows, too afraid to act is how they win. Be loud and deliberate in voicing your opposition. If they’re coming for you anyway you may as well face it head on.
Until those willing to stand up and fight build up into a critical mass, every individual is at risk of being disappeared by the thought police. So until then, there is a good reason to be scared.
Well, that’s not going to happen if everyone stays hidden until it’s safe to come out
Maybe it’s worth buying a gun and learning how to use it so that, if they come for you, you at least get to kill a fascist.
This could be the only thing that would deter them.
id ditch the account if thats what you want
it wasn them under the crosshairs before
This is a big oof.
See the context mentioned by OP. It was a reply to a post about Recall on Windows.
“im a henchman for a bad guy…and lemme tell you…I think we might be starting to do bad stuff…not sure yet…”
Thanks bud
“I’m only following orders!”
if they didnt know what they were signing up for, and they cant quit, you cant blame them
Yeah, just like the attorney’s who resigned when asked to drop the charges against Eric Adams.
if they didnt know what they were signing up for,
People knew meta (then FB) was evil in 2010, dude, cmon
Unfortunately, not everyone has a choice in who they work for in end-stage-capitalism. Work is about survival, not ideology. The majority of Americans are not far-right capitalists, but the vast majority of CEOs are, and it’s not really possible to survive long enough to state a small business in most of the US without investment from a far-right capitalist or inheritance (usually also from a far-right capitalist family member).
If you have the skillset and CV to work at Meta, you have a choice to work somewhere slightly lower on the scale of exploitation.
Dude, look around. Most of us are way, WAY past the “We’re all in this together! We can do it if we try!” method of living and have been operating in survival mode for the past 5 years. And can you blame them? The flood waters are rising and people are wanting to make sure they have a life raft. If that means working for evil people/companies, then so be it. It’s not like working somewhere else will stop or slow the flood. Morals are nice, but they won’t keep you afloat.
Yes morals won’t keep you afloat. But FAANG, military defense contractors, and the other most terrible industries waaaay overpay on cost of living, and other industries are also looking to compensate well for expertise (minus some compensation for all the exploitation you wouldn’t be contributing to).
What you’re describing is the development of a paranoid conservative mindset in response to traumatic global events. This is how my conservative Fox News brainrot parents describe the world, and they are the type to own guns because they’re deathly afraid of home intruders even though their city’s crime index is among the best in the country.
Very big window between participating in society via capitalism vs working directly for, eg. FAANG or a military defense contractor. It’s leaping over every less shitty option to get to the end because that’s what pays best. How funny that I considered writing a pre-reply for this exact comic in my original comment.
People gotta earn money to survive, I don’t blame the employees for this. And this is not just a case of Meta’s privacy being bad. This is close government involvement with potentially serious impacts and implications across all US based platforms.
It makes sense to continue working there but then leak everything to an independent journalist.
Dog, this Linux-Is-Best dipshit almost ruined and ran a local /r/massachusetts subreddit into the ground a couple years back. I remember it because I was there and had a role in getting them removed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS7gw2h5n2o
There’s a bit more to it, someone found out who they were and I forget if they a) didn’t work for FB or b) was just a lowly content control employee or whatever.
If this is the same person, I think they’re legitimately unwell.
Hey now, he didn’t say he was working close with Trump, he said he was working closing with Trump.
I’m sure there’s a distinct difference.
At some point we need to start welcoming people to the Light, instead of demonizing them for having been in the Dark. It’s pretty difficult for me not to dunk on people as they wake up to the nightmare that they voted for, but a lot them ARE actually otherwise decent folks. Making America Great is going to involve deprogramming a lot of people.
That’s all good and well and I agree with you, but I also believe if you have and are continuing to feed the machine, then you don’t get to be put on a pedestal or respected for recognizing how bad the machine is. This person is repeating something that is already very well known and accepted and is simultaneously adding to the alarm while causing it. I have extremely low patience for that particular brand of person. They are continuing to cause the problem they are rallying against.
If I were face to face with this person, I’d genuinely say “either quit working there or shut the fuck up.”
Okay then. If you appreciate talking that way, then either delete your account or shut the fuck up.
I wonder if employees of evil corporations reading your comment are more likely to quit or chill their speech
I hope that at least one whistleblower stays employed at every evil corp
What about when it’s your family? I am estranged from a lot of people that I care deeply for because they refuse to engage with reason. I’m not trying to put anyone on a pedestal, good or bad.
I just want people to know that they are welcome to change their minds, nobody is going to mock them for doing so, or say I told you so. That’s what they expect, and pride is part of what holds many of them back from admitting that they were wrong. Because it’s what they would do. Unfortunately, we’re going to need to take the high road.
The predestal/respect bit in my comment was about this post as a whole. IMO, the screenshotted person does not deserve to be paid attention to. They are not revealing anything new by any means while choosing to make the problem worse.
I don’t know what anyone being in my family has to do with anything. My response is the same: if you are unhappy enough to complain out loud about something you are helping cause, either do something about it or shut the fuck up.
I just want people to know that they are welcome to change their minds, nobody is going to mock them for doing so, or say I told you so.
JSYK: I and many others are putting great effort into letting them know that they’re not welcome, because Nazis who voted for this wanted this, no excuses at campaign #3. They can either die or live in obscurity until they do, period. The time they were allowed back was pre-24 election, simple as
If you label every person who voted for Trump a Nazi, you might be a Nazi
Agree that person would certainly be an over generalizer. What’s the Nazi part about it from your perspective?
Idk man I’m just upset about my family and jealous of people that don’t have to deal with writing off roughly half the people they care about.
If you label people a supporter of an ideology they voted for then you’re just like them
Homie, no
“Are we the baddies?!”
Switching from Windows to Linux isn’t going to block them from monitoring your use of online services. Facebook doesn’t even do anything in the OS space.
I think what they are getting at is that Meta does this and they find it likely Microsoft might be doing something similar.
Know what linux doesn’t have? Your screen constantly recorded and sent to corporations who use this data to maximise shareholder value. Oh and the company is in a 3rd world dictatorial shithole with little to no user protection or regulations.
“But i disabled recall” Cool. They still use telemetry. You turned it off? Nice job, have you considered using linux so you don’t have to do the advanced user bullshit(and if you do, it’s way easier and more straightforward?)
They have an agreement with MS, so they are definitely doing something there.
Yeah, this was a weird way for them to phrase this. You can use Meta stuff on Linux and Fediverse stuff on Windows.
I’ve wanted to switch to OpenSUSE for quite some time now from Fedora for the same reason. Should really do it now
Its so beautifully stable, without giving you ancient software like Debian. Never had an issue using it n its got a grandma level installation.
That first comma is a bit out of place - ‘why won’t you just try, Linux?’
‘seriously Linux, just try your vegetables’.It can’t. Its just a kernel. Maybe with the right gnu core utils…
I was thinking one of those bio powered military robots
Or maybe with busybox :3 (I use Alpine)
Shit I was just about to install PopOs! Which is developed by a US company. It’s maddening trying to find the right distro that fits all the requirements.
Stop worrying about the country of origin. It’s a FOSS project. The vast majority of Pop’s components are developed independently of the company, and by citizens of various nations. Applying the “USA bad, so product bad” rhetoric is a seriously shortsighted approach. Consider instead the amount of influence exerted by the company. Does Ubuntu still seem like the better choice just because the company is headquartered in the UK?
Besides, if you really want to cut American software out of your life, start with Linux and GNU. Torvalds was born in Finland, but he is a naturalized US citizen, and Linux is developed on American infrastructure and includes significant amount of work from American developers.
They can still sanction your country and then you can’t get updates anymore over official ways, like Fedora and Iran.
It’s just peace of mind to not deal with anything US Based right now
It’s not “USA bad, so product bad”, it’s the concern that the US government can do a lot more to US based projects and you probably wont know untill it’s too late.
That’s really not the case, there’s no proprietary parts to inject this into, and pop is one of the most heavily watched distros for a reason.
The minimal things they add to their particular distro are essentially just theming, and it’d be really obvious if they injected something malicious into it.
It would also NOT be too late because they’re a stable distro and have regular releases, it’d have to be a completely last minute unexpected change for that to be the case.
The code is open though, I don’t check it since I am an idiot but I assume pros would spot irregularities.
Do you have a specific vector of attack here in mind?
I guess most methods of attack on a FOSS projects are independent of the country of origin. But, I could still see them being forced to do things they don’t want in the US, without being able to tell anyone. Hopefully if that ever happened it wouldn’t be too hard to detect, but you never know.
People find vulnerabilities and malware even in closed source projects. Us regime is as malicious as it is incompetent. They trust anyone who can throw a sig heil and prompt a LLM to completely dismantle and rebuild major infrastructure.
According to Distrowatch mint and Zorin are from Ireland, opensuse and manjaro are from Germany and more was lazy for more searching
SUSE is now garbage. Not sure about open suse
What’s garbage about it?
When SLES 12 came out they made everything harder and forced everyone to migrate to 64 bit, even if you were doing legacy development
Mandrake/Mandriva is from France
Canonical/Ubuntu is uk
Suddenly Ubuntu doesn’t seem so terrible now, does it??
Ubuntu gang represent.
Well, their “customisation” of Gnome with that ugly bar on the left side is still ugly as hell
That is just a customized version of Dash to Dock. You can move the dock on the bottom if you want or make it auto hide. The same functionality you can expect from Dash to dock but with the Ubuntu theme applied
I don’t want it at all.
But thanks for the Head Up that you can make this ugly thing go away
That’s part of why I use Xubuntu/Kubuntu mainly and Lubuntu for real low end stuff. Straight vanilla Ubuntu is… not super appealing. Ubuntu server that’s just CLI/headless though, that’s pretty tits, imho.
I think I will go for OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. But Kubuntu is also nice to keep in mind
Ubuntu server is okay, but I’ve come to really appreciate a minimal, stable Debian install instead.
Snaps still suck
I agree that the backend for snaps being proprietary sucks, but I actually think snaps themselves are pretty useful in server configurations because of the sandboxing and limiting access to system resources. I get the whole argument that it’s doing what flatpak already did yadda yadda, but like… competing standards happens. It’s part of life and always will be.
Try out CachyOS
FOSS has no country lines.
A lot of people are going to recommend you mint, I honestly think mint is an outdated suggestion for beginners, I think immutability is extremely important for someone who is just starting out, as well as starting on KDE since it’s by far the most developed DE that isn’t gnome and their… design decisions are unfortunate for people coming from windows.
I don’t think we should be recommending mint to beginners anymore, if mint makes an immutable, up to date KDE distro, that’ll change, but until then, I think bazzite is objectively a better starting place for beginners.
The mere fact that bazzite and other immutables generate a new system for you on update and let you switch between and rollback automatically is enough for me to say it’s better, but it also has more up to date software, and tons of guides (fedora is one of the most popular distros, and bazzite is essentially identical except with some QoL upgrades).
How common is the story of “I was new to linux and completely broke it”? that’s not a good user experience for someone who’s just starting, it’s intimidating, scary, and I just don’t think it’s the best in the modern era. There’s something to be said about learning from these mistakes, but bazzite essentially makes these mistakes impossible.
Furthermore because of the way bazzite works, package management is completely graphical and requires essentially no intervention on the users part, flathub and immutability pair excellently for this reason.
Cinnamon (the default mint environment) doesn’t and won’t support HDR, the security/performance improvements from wayland, mixed refresh rate displays, mixed DPI displays, fractional scaling, and many other things for a very very long time if at all. I don’t understand the usecase for cinnamon tbh, xfce is great if you need performance but don’t want to make major sacrifices, lmde is great if you need A LOT of performance, cinnamon isn’t particularly performant and just a strictly worse version of kde in my eyes from the perspective of a beginner, anyway.
I have 15 years of linux experience and am willing to infinitely troubleshoot if you add me on matrix.
I think immutability is extremely important for someone who is just starting out
It really isn’t, though
as well as starting on KDE since it’s by far the most developed DE that isn’t gnome and their… design decisions are unfortunate for people coming from windows.
Good thing Mint uses Cinnamon, which with the flip of one toggle on install changes between the Mac and Windows style environment. To the point my wife literally didn’t notice at first she was on Mint and not Win 10
Not gonna bother with the rest of your comment if the start is that weak, tbh
It really isn’t, though
Really? Being sure that your system is essentially unbreakable isn’t valuable to beginners? I can’t see how. It has massively helped the beginners I have given it to feel safe in tinkering with their system.
It was important to me, one day my arch just decided to not boot anymore, so, i switched to nixos.
Good thing Mint uses Cinnamon, which with the flip of one toggle on install changes between the Mac and Windows style environment. To the point my wife literally didn’t notice at first she was on Mint and not Win 10
I explained in my comment why cinnamon is a terrible choice for beginners, if you had read it you’d know, why even bother replying to a comment you won’t read with such a lazy response?
“Cinnamon (the default mint environment) doesn’t and won’t support HDR, the security/performance improvements from wayland, mixed refresh rate displays, mixed DPI displays, fractional scaling, and many other things for a very very long time if at all. I don’t understand the usecase for cinnamon tbh, xfce is great if you need performance but don’t want to make major sacrifices, lmde is great if you need A LOT of performance, cinnamon isn’t particularly performant and just a strictly worse version of kde in my eyes from the perspective of a beginner, anyway.”
There’s so many reasons to choose kde over cinnamon, there is a massive disparity in security between the two, KDE uses wayland by default, and as a result is SIGNIFICANTLY more secure, just off the top of my head, here’s some problems with cinnamon that will not be resolved anytime soon, that have all already been resolved by this transition KDE-side:
- Every single app can read your keyboard input without asking
- Every single app can see what every single other app is doing without asking
- Apps can fullscreen themselves and go over everything else, because they can control their own window placement to any degree they want, again, without asking.
and in the future the disparity will only go up, just as an example, look at the rate of development on KDE based distros vs cinnamon… cinnamon is entirely outclassed. The KDE team is massive, the cinnamon team is a few people with no real funding. ( if you don’t believe me, here are the stats for the last month cinnamon side: https://github.com/linuxmint/cinnamon/pulse/monthly vs https://github.com/KDE/plasma-desktop/pulse although you’ll note kde isn’t developed on github and that’s just a mirror. It’s not even close, cinnamon has less monthly than 1/10th of the weekly for kde. The KDE text editor alone outpaces all of cinnamon dramatically, https://github.com/KDE/kate/pulse ) The rate of code output and refinement is not even close. The level of customization you can do with KDE vs cinnamon isn’t even comparable. If you run into an issue with cinnamon, you’re SOL, whereas KDE can actually worry about your bugs, because they have so many more developers.
I have tried giving people cinnamon, it has gone disasterously, usually due to DPI problems. But I don’t think it’s a safe recommendation at all, just given the security issues. Also mixed dpi displays are extremely common, many people have 1 4k and 1 1080p screen, for example, or maybe they plug into a tv… it’s much more common than you think.
In short, i think the only reasonable recommendations for beginners in terms of desktop environments, are KDE or Gnome (if they’re mac users and are willing to learn something different), unless their hardware is TERRIBLE and old, in which case they might want lxqt or xfce, maybe.
As an XFCE user, I dislike the reputation that xfce is only useful for low end old hardware. It’s a fully complete desktop just like cinnamon, kde, or gnome. lxqt however, I would not wish on my worst enemy.
As an XFCE user, I dislike the reputation that xfce is only useful for low end old hardware.
We’re talking about specifically for beginners, it’s not nearly as good for beginners as KDE is. You like xfce because you’re used to it and it works for you, but KDE supports a vastly wider variety of usecases, for example, try having two-screen setup with one screen having a 4k display at 144hz, and the other a 1080p screen at 60hz
This will be impossible to get working properly on xfce. There’s not even a warning, it’ll just act very strangely without explaining itself.
there’s also the same issues with security that cinnamon have. XFCE does work, but there’s no reason to recommend it to someone who doesn’t already use/like it over KDE.
How common is the story of “I was new to linux and completely broke it”?
Gee, it’s common even for ‘experienced’ folks. I just went to update to the 6.14 kernel this morning (everything that I use [and monitor for conflicts] was supposedly finally working with it), and apparently that didn’t play well with my desktop manager. Cue the tty at boot and trying different DMs until I finally said screw it and went back to the previous kernel.
I find it weird that there is this whole conversation about new/experienced users, and it’s perhaps a problematic thing with Linux. Many people, myself included, don’t give 2 shits about how their OS works. I don’t want to spend my time tending to it as if it were a fucking garden. I just need it to work, so I can get on with my own stuff. No matter how “experienced” I get, that’s always going to be the case. Maybe I’m just a little traumatized about this because the first Linux distro I used was Gentoo.
I think it’s overblown for the most part. Yes, the OS should just work… but it does, for 99% of users, on windows, and linux, and probably macos, which I haven’t used so can’t speak on.
The ones who blow up their systems are either techies who like futzing with stuff, or are using a ‘bad’ distro for their needs. If you’re switching over granny, you set her up with a long term stable kernel, a vanilla distro, and a browser. The few other stories are when people switch from windows and want something specialized to be the same. Those will need a customized solution, but it’s not much different than windows when something breaks. Whoever is playing IT gets to poke at a stupid amount of settings, registry edits, or esoteric drivers/dependencies.
You should be using OpenKylin or something like that.
I 100% agree. Immutable is the way to go for beginners. Source: started on Mint and actually had a few problems. Now I’m on Bluefin (previously Aurora) and I have none.
I’ve done OSINT research and that alone converted me into a privacy advocate. Seeing how Alphabet, Meta, and MS have allowed creep to get training data… Whew. It’s breathtaking and complicated beyond the ability to explain in 114 characters.
Y’all, we are cooked. Currently. Present tense. If you aren’t freaked out already, you’re missing about 85% of reality.
US corporate “leadership” has a rapists mentality. Consent is not needed. They will do the crime either way. and daddy sam let’s them get away with it.
Yeah OSINT existing is proof that no backdoor is secure, not even mentioning what you can buy from data brokers, something authorities wouldn’t need warrants for.
Well, to be fair it’s also proof that people do not value privacy, and that the means by which actual privacy can be obtained are few and narrow.
It also really drives home the fact that our systems of IDs, licensure, taxes, property purchase, etc. are designed for an analog 20th century world. We need new systems based on modern technology, bit not in a way that simply contracts out to the very companies that put us here.
They’ll be forced to care when their freedom’s inevitably on the line (in the states)
I didn’t care before ai as i was nobody and scams were easy to detect.
Now ai is running those scams and people are trying to use ai to target nobodies like me. All the while ai is stealing my creation and data that companies used to pay you, all while using it to generate money without compensating me.
imagine how great it feels to say this for like 20 years while getting dismissed as a conspiracy nut.
and then having it happen exactly as you said it would.
It’s called the Cassandra Complex, named after Cassandra/Kassandra of Troy.
dismissed as a conspiracy nut.
The government and bad actors use this as a strategy to attack their opponents and control public opinion.
If you think this is new, you’re very naive. They just have better tools to spy on you now.
if ive been saying it for so long, maybe its not exactly new.
its just that we can’t stop it anymore.
nah you can totally stop the surveillance. Just use tailsOS, live in the basement of a building under an aluminum ceiling (to hide from synthetic-aperture radar spy sats), near a busy highway (so the LIGO gravity-wave observatory cant record the sound of your footsteps), get food deliveries so you don’t have to leave, and connect to the internet using a neighbors wifi.
\j
I was talking more about the panopticon surveillance phenomena, not the people individually trying to hide something which I’d guess its probably still possible.
But the surveillance state is here to stay and we won’t get rid of it easily is what i’m saying.
This is one of those cases where you’d really rather have been wrong.
Does that mean that fedora is not recommended?
Fedora is an international collaborative effort but Red Hat is the main sponsor and it is US based. We will have to be careful and observe
And the new leader (whatever the fuck it’s called) is going to be a Red Hat employee. It’s why I left Fedora despite liking it quite a lot. That’s way too close to IBM for my liking
What do you recommend thats as complete as Fedora out of the box ? I used to be on Arch but it was time consuming to tune everything up and Fedora was the bullseye between the flexibility of Arch and a complete solution without much tinkering needed.
I was in the same spot not too long ago. I would probably recommend CachyOS or Endeavour. They’re Arch-based but a lot of the preconfiguration has been done (e.g., you will have a browser, and printer support, out of the box. Try using Ventoy and just throwing some ISOs on it, makes it really easy to try different distros
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Yeah, the government and corporations would never spy on us. What a ridiculous idea!
Said a person in denial lol
https://distrosea.com/ this is amazing for previewing linux OS flavours right in your browser, no need for a USB stick or installation! Linux Mint, Zorin, Ubuntu and Fedora are the winners for me in terms of being normie friendly.
Why not Haiku 🙃?
When facebook was all over removing anti-vaxx posts and “misinformation” that later turned out to be very close to the truth that guy was okay with “working close with the regime”, now he suddenly isn’t. I wonder…
What exactly in the privacy agreements is this person worried about? All I’m seeing is PANIC but without a reason given…
I work for Meta (Facebook).
For example, the word “protest” will now get your account and activity monitored.
