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Don’t forget the fact that the US continues to support Israel through all this.
And many US-aligned European countries
Might be time for them to change that. See how big Israeli Stalin talks when Father U.S. says “Fair game” to the Middle East. Give them a week to evacuate their innocent civilians first, then step all the way back.
It might be difficult as Israel has threatened the use of Nuclear weaponry in the past if the US were to stop their aid.
In the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Arab forces were overwhelming Israeli forces and Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert and ordered 13 atomic bombs be readied for use by missiles and aircraft. The Israeli Ambassador informed President Nixon that “very serious conclusions” may occur if the United States did not airlift supplies. Nixon complied. This is seen by some commentators on the subject as the first threat of the use of the Samson Option.
North Korea threatens the US with nukes all the time, and yet no one is bowing down to the Kim’s demands.
Israel has 3 options with its nuke threat, empty words and become an international pariah state, nuke Palestine and by extension itself, or nuke the US.
None of those options end well for Israel.
So who cares about such a empty threat.
Without wading in to the host of other issues with your comment, at the bare minimum you have to acknowledge that Israel and North Korea have very different nuclear capabilities. There’s a reason a nuclear threat from Russia, for example, is taken more seriously than North Korea.
IIRC some of the radical extremely right wing Israeli figures have been suggesting that the last-ditch Samson option would be to nuke basically anyone they can in retaliation for the destruction of Israel.
In 2003, a military historian, Martin van Creveld, thought that the Second Intifada then in progress threatened Israel’s existence. Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst’s The Gun and the Olive Branch (2003) as saying:
We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: ‘Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.’ I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.
You’re describing negotiation with a terrorist. Call their bluff, or their demands will never end.
That’s what North Korea says as well.
Still doesn’t mean the US is supplying North Korea with weapons.
The US is one of dozens of countries sending military aid to Israel, who has been an active defender of UD interested for 80 years under over a dozen administrative.
If the US dogs all weapons tomorrow, they still have enough weapons for an indefinite war and the us throws away any diplomatic leverage.
Biden has gone from complete support to directly contradicting netanyahu that the US won’t support an extended war and that the US is focused on a 2-state solution and that Israel wind down their current massacre.
Israel didn’t, Biden met and talked with netanyahus political rival.
Biden sent direct humanitarian aid against netanyahus wishes.
Biden is opening up a port to safely deliver more Palestinian aid against netanyahus wishes.
For the leader of a country indirectly involved in the war, Biden is doing a lot in four months to diplomatically address the massacre.
Immediately cutting off all weapons to a 70-yeat tacit and 50-year very active ally would severely damage the trust and reputation of the US to its committed allies.
Cutting off all aid also means that Israel has no reason to listen to the us at all now or in the future and the us throws away all credibility as an indirect influential ally diplomatically drawing down the massacre.
Talking with political opponents to netanyahu, sending aid, starting publicly that they won’t support an extended war, setting up a humanitarian pathway against their wishes, these are direct diplomatic actions appropriate for the role of an indirectly involved ally.
Biden and the US are still supplying them with weapons and money, and shielding them from the UN.
Just because they drop a few meagre bits of aid and share some empty rhetoric doesn’t change shit.
Biden and the US are still directly contributing to the war, that is the only thing that matters.
Yes, providing aid to your ally’s event does change shit.
And opening up a sustained aid pathway in direct defiance of your ally’s military policy and stated wishes definitely changes shit.
US aid to Israel is not the only thing that matters, it is one small part, not very important with current Israeli stockpiles and the dozens of other countries that are supporting them anyway, the US stopping all military aid tomorrow would not affect the Israeli military for years.
No.
It is very fucking important. You don’t fight a fire by actively dumping fuel into it.
If it takes a few weeks for their stockpiles to run out, than the best time to stop aid was weeks ago, the second best time is today.
Israel has dozens of active allies providing them with military support and years of weapons stockpiles.
If the US stops providing aid tomorrow, Israel can still indefinitely continue this war and others, for years or even decades unless they’re cut off by all their allies and the US loses its most potent leverage as long as netanyahu, a dictator, directs his very militarized, prejudiced, and polarized country.
And if the US doesn’t stop tomorrow they can continue forever.
It’s a very basic concept here, stop defending weapons to genociders.
Israel can continue this genocide indefinitely but not forever regardless of US military aid.
I’m not sure why ‘they can continue this forever even if the U.S. stops providing aid’ means the U.S. should still provide them with aid.
Just because Israel can continue this war indefinitely does not mean that the US should still provide them with aid; since the US not providing military aid does not change the outcome of this conflict at all, diplomatic solutions have a better chance of ameliorating the violence then playing a high card that in this exact situation gets you nothing.
They don’t like it when the facts don’t align with their agenda here.
gEnoCiDe jOe bad!
Yea, it’s pretty ridiculous.
There are clear facts, and they’ll either pretend that a question was different, pretend that they didn’t say what they said, or pretend that I didn’t say what I said.
Common enough, but in a publicly recorded forum rather than a spoken conversation, I don’t see why they keep making things up when anyone can just scroll up to see what the original comment said.
Yeah because Trump would turn Gaza into a golf course.
In what way? Source?
Idk if this is satire but I laughed
Shielding them from the UN?
Adding $14.1 billion in aid to the border bill?
Shipping weapons?
I really don’t see how you cannot know about this very well known stuff, so I’ve gotta question the motives of your post.
A bill that still hasn’t passed and is currently being denied a vote on the house even after they removed the border deal…
To the surprise of nobody on the entire planet except
But I’ve been seeing for weeks how Israel has agreed to a framework for a ceasefire and that it’s Hamas refusing to negotiate…
When you see nonsense like that remember that they’re talking about a temporary ceasefire. Even if Israel wanted that (they don’t) Hamas has every right to refuse after they handed over half the hostages and the genocide continued a week later.
I’ve only been seeing that it’s Hamas somewhat agreeing to a ceasefire and Israel keeps refusing, which lines up with the reality of the situation.
Maybe find some better news sources that aren’t Israeli propaganda?
The last I saw was Israel will not negotiate any further until a list of hostages still alive is released. Lines up nicely with the ICJ report that calls for all hostages to be released immediately and unconditionally.
Has this been brought forward?
How does that line up with the ICJ report? Try asking Netanyahu to stop killing hostages.
Every hostage that has been released said the scariest thing for them was israel trying to kill them
Uhh… section 63 i believe. Did you read the report?
Okay most of us here want the hostages to be released, but an immediate and unconditional release of the hostages is basically a carte blanche for their genocide. The lesser evil should be clear here.
So what you are saying is yes we are committing a war crime but we believe we need to. I.e three exact justification Israel is using?
I mean, what has holding the hostages actual got them?
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Can’t wait till the rest of society starts treating Zionists like Nazis.
As a Jewish American, I can. Thanks to Israel, I get faced with a lot more antisemitic bullshit, especially from people who think that, as a Jew, I must support Israel. Once society does decide Israelis are the same as Nazis, people like me are kind of fucked.
I blame Israel, obviously. They’ve emboldened antisemites in the rest of the world and created new ones.
Zionists, Israelis and Jews aren’t (and shouldn’t be treated as) the same group, though. I mean there are ignorant people who don’t understand the difference, but ignorant people are gonna be ignorant either way.
The problem is that this sort of thing emboldens bigots and it’s not hard for bigotry to spread once it’s started.
It’s a very short step from rightfully blaming Israel for this genocide to wrongfully blaming all Jews for it.
The same thing happened when Israel cracked down on the intifadas. I kept having to explain that I didn’t support Israel when people pointed fingers at me and they didn’t always believe it. But even the accusation is pretty damn bigoted and it didn’t happen only once and from plenty of people on my left-wing side of the spectrum sadly.
Admittedly, I’ve only had to do that once so far since this current genocide has started, but I doubt it will be only once.
If you don’t think these sorts of situations make bigotry far worse, ask any Muslim that was in America after 9/11. Or even any Sikh considering lots of idiots who suddenly embraced bigotry thought turban = Muslim.
There is what 11 million people in that war zone?
The more pertinent thing is that he basically said he has no solution for the ultra Orthadox getting drafted, and if that happens his coalition collapses and he gets kicked out of office.
I think there’s like a week to come up with a solution or an extension, and a solution is unlikely since Benny Gantz would probably win the election after a collapse and his support is needed to get a solution.
Netanyahu must be hoping war in Rafah forces an extension.
Boycott Divest Sanction
Why do they keep calling it a war? A one-sided genocide of people trapped like rats by their captor, does not a war make.
Because it was started by Hamas taking captives, and they haven’t surrendered or released the hostages.
Israels genocide of the Palestinian people has been going on for decades now?
No, history began when I started paying attention.
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Are you talking about the Israeli government or Hamas?
Hamas can surrender and release the hostages at any time…
Isreal can stop bombing civilians at any time
I think you’re confused as to who is indiscriminately shooting tens of thousands of rockets at densely populated civilian areas… that would be Hamas.
Who killed more civilians this past couple of months?
Who killed more children?
Would Hamas release the hostages and surrender if they did?
Love seeing you try and fail everytime to somehow convince anyone that the IDF isn’t at fault for 30,000 civilian deaths.
We can play this game. We can trade shots back into history until we get to the very beginning of this situation, but I don’t think you’ll like the answer you find. Colonizing and displacing locals by force to create the state of Israel would be the inciting event.
But they’ll claim it was their home 2000 years ago because a fiction novel says so. But they never question who are these people living on “their” land and where did they come from?
This requires ignoring that generic studies of modern Palestinians with bronze age burials remains concludes there is genetic continuity.
The religious texts aren’t an accurate historical record, but it is a fact that the Jewish culture and religion formed in that region. It’s backed up by multiple disciplines of study. Where do you think Judaism comes from if not the Levant?
I think you missed the point. The people being murdered in Gaza are the descendants of those Jews. Populations change religions, like how Greece is no longer pagan. Just because they are no longer Jewish, does not deny their indigeneity. And the fact that someone is Jewish does not entitle them to indigenous status.
There have been times in the past when the Jewish population was largely displaced or converted, but there have been some number of Jewish people living there for thousands of years.
Genetic testing shows that 75% of modern Jewish people are descended from that region.
I’m not arguing entitlements or indigenous status, I’m saying that there’s ample scientific evidence regarding Judaism coming from the Levant.
75%… Modern Palestinians are 81-87% descended from that region. Yet, this is an argument to ethnic cleanse then along religious lines.
Zionism is a mental disease.
How far do we want to go back, the Roman Empire? The conquering islamic dynasties??? The Ottoman Empire???
Maybe you should sit down with a history book and have a good read instead of playing that TikTok garbage on repeat.
None of which justify ethnic cleansing for colonial ambitions. Talk about tiktok garbage, you don’t even know that the palastinians today are still the same semites of the roman empire. They just changed religions. But your so damn brain dumb racist that you can’t even understand that.
I’m teaching your kids history in classes. They gonna learn today.
Gaza War: Hamas Rules out Surrender.
Surprising nobody…
Netanyahu’s taking it upon himself to repeatedly dissolve any semblance of discussions despite the U.S.'s desperate attempts at framing the issue in a way that would help Israel.
Yup. The whole “I’m not unreasonable… YOU’RE UNREASONABLE!”
Naw. I’m sure there’s a few centrists out there that actually believed Biden when he said there would be a ceasefire.
They still believe Biden is trying to do something, it’s disgusting how much they lie to themselves about him.
I believe he’s trying to do something. There’s no advantage otherwise. Israel is fucked for a long time because of this. The only one who might win in the war is netanyahu, and its only temporarily.
And the US Immediatly stops weapons shipments…the US immediately stops weopons shipments…right?
God fucking damn it.
