They were 16, people that beat them up were “older girls”. Surely they will charge them as adults right?
Nah they will just claim religious persecution and “it will ruin their life” throw in them “fearing for their safety” being the right race and gender. At most they are looking at community service.
I think the system is going to suddenly find a lot of excuses not to do that. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if the police suddenly decided they had no place enforcing adult laws in school and saying this is a learning moment…
I think the system is going to suddenly find a lot of excuses not to do that.
I mean, they’re young girls and probably white so the justice system is going to do everything it can to avoid holding them accountable before you even get to it being a nonbinary victim in a red state. Even if they’re charged and convicted as adults I’d be shocked if they get worse than probation and maybe a suspended sentence at worst. Names withheld by media, of course.
All part of their plan.
Yep, inevitable and intended consequences.
You’ll get called dramatic for saying that but Republicans are absolutely eyeing a form of trans genocide; removing access to treatment and creating as hostile and dangerous an environment possible for trans people. They want us to disappear.
100% trans genocide is the point.
I’m just some cis dude but I’m in your corner bro/sis/enby buddy ❤️
And my axe.
Thank you <3
It’s infuriating and scary they way it feels most people miss that, I just want to live my life, maybe even love it. But with the billionaires on one hand and the bigots on the other it’s really hard on so many levels. There’s an element of fear and uncertainty in my home and I am sure in many others. The fear of self sustainability, looming threats of homelessness and poverty if there is anything to disrupt our productivity for the owning class along with making decisions based on when, not if, unjust laws are passed that threaten our very existence. Saving and moving house, trying to get to a point where we eventually live in a northern haven isn’t a retirement prospect, a grasp for opportunity, or a change of scenery, it’s a requirement to make sure we can continue the being alive part.
Sometimes it is hard when the future seems so bleak and I spend so much of my time barely keeping my head above water, having a seemingly lofty goal as a near necessity. This society is a fucking joke, but at least there are people, like you, in our corner. Hopefully in time things can unshittify but things are getting bad, fast, at the moment.
At the same time, I can’t help but feel so incredibly lucky despite everything, There are people facing harsher systemic difficulties, less access to opportunity, and harsher local conditions. Despite everything I’m alive, I’m here now, and it makes me angry, and sad, that people like Nex are forced to end the fight so early due to heartless politicians and their base of vultures.
Sorry to trauma dump, it’s been brutal lately.
it’s been brutal lately
No disagreement here. I don’t like that “savior” stereotype but IDK I hope it helps to see someone outside the affected groups just agree that yes, it is a load of hyper bullshit and no you’re not fucking crazy.
Y’all keep fighting, and I’ll keep getting in trouble in my Bible belt dive bars for telling people they can eat my whole ass for saying dumbass shit.
You aren’t being dramatic as long as there are shamans all minorities are targets. We know exactly what Abrahamic theocracies are like.
“Fuck them kids” -Republicans
“Starve them poor kids for being poor, too!”
-Also Republicans
You’ve got Matt Gaetz’s attention.
Don’t want to be born? TOO BAD! --Republicans
Teenage girls are psychotic, getting into fights with a trans kid and beating them to a pulp. How many psychotically violent teens are in schools?
I’m sure every American here has stories. The only reason I and my friends were never bullied much was early on in 6th grade, I stuffed a jock into their locker.
The thing was he was trying to stuff a friend of mine in a locker; with his coach as hall monitor (“boys will be boys,”).
For the record the only thing that I could get to fit was his head and shoulders. Also, the fire dept was breaking out the jaws of life when the lunch lady showed up with bacon grease… so he spent the first ten or so minutes of every class trying to make shit up about that… while everyone knew.
Did the lunch lady look like this? And was there a Scottish groundskeeper there as well?
I mean… Its been a few decades, but i do seem to recall that yes, one of the lunchladies did in fact look like that… It was a large school (actually, two large schools, the kitchen served both a middle school and high school.) and had the kitchen and staffing to go with it.
she was also incredibly grumpy.
to be fair, I would be grumpy too if I had to deal with shitty kids bitching about food all day long. though in my defense, they sorted lunches by last name, and I was always in the last lunch of the day… meaning that we always got the leftovers from the previous lunch cycles.
I find it hard to believe he got stuck that badly.
A lot. I may not have been aware that I was trans back when I was a kid but growing up became a very lonely existence once girls and boys isolated themselves into their little tribes. When the siloing process sticks you with a peer group that implicitly knows you to be an ill fit and even when you try to get along your brain doesn’t register that gendered sense of “this is a person who acts and thinks like me” you don’t as a habit really make very close friends.
Kids are very good at forming hardcore social bonds where they let their sense of individual identity slip in favor of their group. While I didn’t experience trans hate growing up directly persay being placed in situations where you just can’t make decent bonds tends to make you an easy target for being ripped to shreds as somebody else’s exercise of building pack solidarity. It takes very little for children to find justification to be violent.
All of them. Some are better at self control, but none of us were sane.
Seriously. How can anyone expect us to be when our skull meatballs were still congealing?
Owasso PD spokesperson Nick Boatman told The Independent that police were awaiting the results of toxicology and autopsy reports from the Oklahoma Medical Examiner’s Office before determining whether anyone will be charged.
Ofc cops want a toxicology report on the victim instead of the perpetrators.
ACAB
You know, sometimes you ACAB people are just as annoying as the bootlickers
Nah.
Everyone knows being distrustful of authority is the same thing as actively endorsing fascism.
Yes that’s why the saying goes: “Pine for authoritarian strongmen” and not: “Question authority” or some shit.
Testing the other kids for what? An overdose of “fight in the girls bathroom” meds? Make some sense.
To be fair, according to the article, the victim collapsed and stopped breathing the day after the altercation, probably leading them to believe they might have taken some substance subs then that could’ve caused this.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to do a toxicology test.
If someone hits their head and then goes to sleep;
That’s so commonly known as being a cause of death, that it’s even featured in nursery rhymes from centuries ago.
Mind. Blown.
This would infer the hospital missed a brain bleed/concussion/or some other head trauma. There’s also no info about the fight or who started it or anything else, but I’d imagine a toxicology report would be done on any 16 year old that dropped dead for nearly any unknown reason.
Doing a tox screen on Nex’s body is reasonable, if only to eliminate a theory a defense attorney would try to argue to a jury. Waiting for the results of that tox screen to decide whether or not a crime took place and start making arrests when we already have plenty of evidence to say that they were assaulted and it’s only unclear whether that assault was the cause of their death is what doesn’t make any sense.
Yes, that’s kind of how an investigation works you dingbat.
If you left out calling them a dingbat your point is exactly the same.
Transphobic shit bags are seeking out stories about Nex and seeing what they can get away with because they know it’s a really good opportunity for them to grind salt into some peoples’ wounds
Once again. Calling people names don’t reinforce your point. It usually does the opposite. Your anger doesn’t make your point more poignant.
Your politeness doesn’t make you more right.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing
https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/tone-policing-and-privilege/
I’m not saying anything other that calling people names doesn’t accomplish anything. I have zero contempt for anyone holding anyone back from who they are. I am literally not on any side and simply pointing out that calling people names does not seem mature and puts people off. If you can’t handle that feedback that is your problem.
Not really, but do go on with your transphobic remarks.
Yes, fuckwit, toxicology reports are part and parcel of FUCKING EVERY INVESTIGATION involving an autopsy.
You have no fucking clue if this person was poisoned. You have no clue if they were forced to ingest medications against their will. YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE HOW THEY ACTUALLY DIED.
Which is why an actual fucking professional that isn’t a reactionary online cockmongrel does an investigation INCLUDING A FUCKING TOXICOLOGY REPORT.
If you want to accuse me of being transphobic while you yourself are a goddamn moron, FUCK YOURSELF WITH YOUR OWN FOOT, YOU IGNORANT CUNT.
Was gonna upvote, but you really went overboard with the insults there so I had to upvote twice
Lol, cockmongrel
Impressive amount of downvotes. Troll successful, I guess
What part of what they said is transphobic?
OH NOW YOU TOO HUH
/s
It’s funny, because I literally just left a thread in which I was agreeing with them and then I saw the notification of your comment.
Can you point out what that person said that was transphobic? From the reply it just seems like that they were pointing out that a toxicology report is something that’s fairly routine. What did I miss?
The included insult, however mild, must be seen as an attempt to denigrate QUESTIONING the police methods, as if the environment was “obviously” fair and balanced. He might have not meant it that way, but even then it’s an example of the moderate being the true enemy of the oppressed. So it’s either a tactic, siding with a fascist system or at best inconsiderate.
The included insult, however mild, must be seen as an attempt to denigrate QUESTIONING the police
No it doesn’t. That’s ridiculous to insist it must be viewed in that manner. That’s your reductionist view.
He might have not meant it that way,
So he may not have meant it that way, but we must view it that way? Absolutely insane take.
but even then it’s an example of the moderate being the true enemy of the oppressed. So it’s either a tactic, siding with a fascist system or at best inconsiderate.
Here’s the real issue, you’ve created a litmus test that no one is pure enough to meet. Rather than accepting allies for trans rights, you want to push them away. If they aren’t as reactionary and reductionist as you then they must be the enemy. Truly alarming. You’re the problem, you allow the “moderates” (as you call them), who might otherwise support trans rights to oppose them by pushing them out and calling them transphobic.
It’s pretty common to see transphobes wading into this sort of stuff with the same kind of arguments that racists use about police murdering black people, etc. That support of the system because the system is oppressing a minority they don’t like kind of thing where they turn a blind eye to any context.
I’m not gonna wade into that kind of debate, but to me, the big issue is what I saw somebody else say: that the police aren’t even going to consider whether or not a crime was committed until after they get the toxicology report, despite knowing that the person in question was assaulted like the day before.
Like the cops, focusing on the toxicology report alone is an easy way to erase everything else about what happened. Having a toxicology done isn’t transphobic, but focusing only on that and when it comes back clean, ruling it as a freak accident and not following up on the assault? That would be transphobic as hell and wouldn’t be the first or last time the cops did something like that.
Here’s my issue, when you call someone a transphobe (or racist, or pedophile, etc) when they haven’t actually been transphobic, you water down the meaning. It just becomes a thing you say that lost it’s meaning, rather than the big deal it is.
that the police aren’t even going to consider whether or not a crime was committed until after they get the toxicology report, despite knowing that the person in question was assaulted like the day before.
Why would they before they finish investigating? What’s the charge? Simple assault, assault and battery, manslaughter, negligent homicide, second degree murder? If you don’t have all the facts you can’t charge them properly.
Maybe the police have an interest in burying the charges, but if you don’t know that, you shouldn’t claim it. Because the best way to secure a conviction is to thoroughly investigate first, then bring charges once the information has been gathered. Anything else is laying the groundwork for a defense attorney.
Like the cops, focusing on the toxicology report alone is an easy way to erase everything else about what happened. Having a toxicology done isn’t transphobic, but focusing only on that and when it comes back clean, ruling it as a freak accident and not following up on the assault? That would be transphobic as hell
Ok, agreed. But that hasn’t happened yet. Reacting to something that hasn’t happened just allows other people to ignore you and your concerns about trans rights. I would caution against that approach. If they don’t take action once the info is in, or blame the victim, then you get mad as hell. Best of luck!
Yeah, when I said that I wasn’t gonna wade into the argument, I meant on whether or not they were actually being transphobic, because that one line simply isn’t enough to say what their motivation is.
As for the cops, the issue is that they’re doing a toxicology, but not following up on the assault in any form. They could be investigating that as well while they wait on the report, but they’re actively holding off on doing that.
When did ‘dingbat’ become transphobic?
Has ‘dingbat’ become a new epithet for trans people?
Because it apparently originally was the name of an alcoholic drink and has been used to describe a stupid person since 1905.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/dingbat
Care to tell us where you heard that the word was transphobic?
It’s also a style of architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingbat_(building)
That’s unfortunate for the small local music and dive bar near me called dingbatz then…
If it’s in Clifton, those guys support white power bands 😕
It is… oh boy. I have only been twice since my friend has a metal band that plays there sometimes. I never knew and I doubt he knows that as well since he is definitely not into that either.
Maybe it’s named after the printer’s ornament?
It is very disgusting to see.
Yeah… sounds like Oklahoma.
This is exactly the outcome they (republicans, the police, Elon Musk, etc.) want.
Another person murdered by Christianity.
This isn’t “Christianity”. And that’s not to defend the religion, but it is just one head of this Hydra, not the core of the problem. People in power are using hate and fear in whatever medium they can to consolidate and increase that power, casualties be damned.
They all just happen to be religious by coincidence.
They all just happen to be religious by coincidence.
Religion is the tool, not the motive.
There are those that practice their faith the way it should be practiced, without causing harm to others.
And then there are others who want power, and will use the tool to manipulate others, to get that power.
There are those that practice their faith the way it should be practiced, without causing harm to others.
Tell me the Bible passage that says that.
There are those that practice their faith the way it should be practiced, without causing harm to others.
Tell me the Bible passage that says that.
Because people are just their books, and have no free will of their own.
You point to me in the New Testament where Jesus himself advocates violence and harm, and then we can have a conversation.
Because people are just their books, and have no free will of their own.
Very well. In that case I want a citation. How did you determine the “right” way and why is everyone else wrong?
You point to me in the New Testament where Jesus himself advocates violence and harm, and then we can have a conversation.
I already did this in this thread. Come on some level of effort on your point. He does it repeatedly! He talks about how he will be the future king and his enemies will be butchered then sent to hell. He makes a woman beg at his feet while calling herself a racial slur before he helps her kid. He rebukes a man with leprosy for having leprosy. He tells people to give up all means of support and their own families just to follow him.
Very well. In that case I want a citation. How did you determine the “right” way and why is everyone else wrong?
You’re being intellectually dishonest to suggest that I’m saying everyone else is wrong, as the point I’m trying to make is not that at all, that you can’t judge a whole people based on what their religion is, as people have free will and follow there religion to their modern worldview, and see what are you with me not just what ancient text stated verbaten.
As far as how I determine what the right way is, I do it via The Golden Rule. Do onto to others, as you would have others do unto you. Basically, what Jesus taught at a summary level. Be kind of others, don’t harm them help where you can, etc.
And for the record, I’m not a Christian, just in case you think you’re arguing against one.
I would love to have a Christian scholar review what you’re saying, especially the quotes that you’re stating are coming from Jesus, for factuality.
But there’s a reason why the tool is always religion
But there’s a reason why the tool is always religion
You’d be foolish to think that that is the only tool available for people to manipulate others with.
No one is saying that it is.
No one is saying that it is.
I was responding to a comment from someone else, and not from you…
But there’s a reason why the tool is always religion
If it’s always religion then it can’t be anything else, right? So that person was indirectly stating that’s the only tool, and I was pointing out that there’s multiple ways of manipulating others, besides religion.
Where did I say it wasn’t part of the problem? I said the exact opposite, in fact.
@ech @afraid_of_zombies TBF it kinda is Christianity tho.
TBF it kinda is Christianity tho.
Which Christianity? Jesus’, or today’s modern-day Evangelical?
The same Christianity that wiped out the pagan faiths of Europe via mass murder, led a series of bloody wars into the “Holy” Land, plunged the former empire into the dark ages, burned books and people, repeatedly murdered each other over doctrine and any minority they could grab, built instruments of torture to go after supposed heretics, and not content with the horrors they subjected parts of the Middle East and all of Europe to went forward and introduced their rot to the rest of the world.
That Christianity. The burning at the stake, stabbing homosexuals with fire pokers, the genocidal against the Jews, the rape and pillage of Arab lands, the Christianity that imprisoned and tortured any free thinker. The same one that even today is quickly working to “deal” with the Muslims and the trans.
And why shouldn’t it be exactly like that? The whole thing is modeled after one of the most repulsive characters in all of fiction.
The same Christianity that wiped out the pagan faiths of Europe via mass murder, led a series of bloody wars into the “Holy” Land, plunged the former empire into the dark ages, burned books and people, repeatedly murdered each other over doctrine and any minority they could grab, built instruments of torture to go after supposed heretics, and not content with the horrors they subjected parts of the Middle East and all of Europe to went forward and introduced their rot to the rest of the world.
You keep being intellectually dishonest. The Crusades and the other things you described were not done by Jesus, they were done by other men centuries later.
There’s a clear disembarkation in philosophy between what Jesus spoke of and taught, and what regular people throughout the ages interpreted what he said as, for their own personal benefits.
I’m talking about individuals. You’re talking about institutions. An institution is not made of 100% of individuals that all think exactly the same.
This is exactly Christianity. Their book tells them to act this way and their shamans have been screaming for this conduct for twenty centuries. Every single Christian I have dealt with is about one bad day away from doing this and why shouldn’t they? The have skydaddy telling them that they will be forgiven for everything and that it is a good thing to oppress the LGBT.
Again, I’m not defending the religion, just saying that blaming one thing here is missing the mountain of other contributing factors. If we erased christianity and every other religion you want gone from the world, the hate and fear would still be there, as would the people manipulating that to benefit themselves.
If cancer were cured tomorrow people would still die eventually, but I would rather live in a world without cancer than one with it.
Great metaphor, actually, since cancer is most often caused or exacerbated by something else. But you’re still missing my point by a mile. Keeping going after the symptom rather than the sickness, I guess. I’m sure that’ll solve everything.
I got your point. You refuse to address the issue and instead want us all to wander around in circles finding “deeper” reasons.
Swing and a miss again.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful to those who you are replying to, but are you sure those are even regular people you’re talking to, and not bots?
Either they’re very fanatical and can’t see outside of their box, or they’re being intellectually dishonest in how they respond to you, seeming to miss your point that’s being expressed very well and straightforward.
Eh, I don’t think so. People (understandably) hyper-focus on religion, and Christianity in particular, and the terrible things done under them, and it can be hard to get them to view the larger scope of the situation.
Nope human. Got meat organs and everything. I love how the only defense of religion is to personally attack the guy calling out what it does
This is exactly Christianity. Their book tells them to act this way and their shamans have been screaming for this conduct for twenty centuries.
Granted, I missed Jesus’s sermon on the hill, but I’m sure I would have heard something about him okaying bullying and killing good people just because they’re different.
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”’
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
Whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire
The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
He is now the judge of a sinful world, and on His head is the crown of the sole ruler of earth. On His robe, dipped in blood, and on His thigh is written, “King of kings and Lord of lords,” and no one alive doesn’t tremble at the sight of Him.
Christian fundamentalists don’t have nothing in common with Jesus. They are fake christians. Jesus preached tolerance so many times. They fucking don’t get it that they ignore him completely.
Jesus didn’t exist. The fictional person in the Gospels preached a doctrine that his was the only way to salvation and all other ways lead to hell. That one does not have the right to basic sexuality, property, and what they say.
That is not any form of tolerance I have ever heard of. One the rejects freedom of religion, expression, sexual preferences, and possessions. What possible tolerance could there be in a world where a shaman can order you to only worship him, to hand over all your stuff, to love only whom he approves of, and only say what he wants you to say?
Jesus didn’t exist.
Ballsy of you to say that. I’d like to know what proof you have of that.
Honestly not saying that you’re wrong, but it’s really tired of people who say things with such certainty when they’re just pulling it out of one of their orifices.
The fictional person in the Gospels preached a doctrine that his was the only way to salvation and all other ways lead to hell. That one does not have the right to basic sexuality, property, and what they say.
[Citation Required.]
Ballsy of you to say that. I’d like to know what proof you have of that.
Sure. Total lack of contemporary evidence, lack of all relics from his life, the inability of anyone to keep basic biographical details about his life straight, clear and obvious plagiarism from texts in wide circulation at the time, lack of a dynasty, and easier explanations for the scarce data that we have.
You could write Paul’s letters completely from just being told 2 things about Jesus and being familiar with Jewish and Greek writings. You could write the entire gospel of Mark with the letters and again some familiarity with the writings of the time. Matthew adds almost nothing. Luke-Acts just adds stuff about Paul.
Want the Euchrist? Guess what eating your god was a common mystery cult practice. Want a dead leader? All over Judaism start with the Maccabees. Want the last supper? Common fiction trope at the time. Want the Tomb? Again already in fiction. Feeding the multitudes and healing the sick? Easy, Elijiah.
That one does not have the right to basic sexuality, property, and what they say.
Being serious? All that stuff about giving up your property to charity, ripping your eye out instead of looking with lust, condemning people for not saying that he was lord?
I’d like to know what proof you have of that.
Chiming in here to say that generally you need proof of positive claims in a debate, rather than proof of negative claims. Claiming dragons are real requires evidence, claiming that they are not real, well, I mean, first you’d have to establish a definition of what dragons are, but mostly, it wouldn’t require evidence to claim they’re not real, because proving such a thing would be a feat an order of magnitude greater than proving they exist.
In any case, have fun with your debate.
Christian fundamentalists don’t have nothing in common with Jesus. They are fake christians. Jesus preached tolerance so many times. They fucking don’t get it that they ignore him completely.
That’s the point I’ve been trying to make. That when everyone says Christians are bad there’s actually two types of Christians, the Jesus type, and the modern Christians who use the name but don’t act like how Jesus would want them to.
Do the Jesus types live in Scotland with the True Scots?
You know I do find it kind of weird to bring up the no true scotsman fallacy in this shit, when the real point of that fallacy is just kind of to get people to be conscious that their mental definitions don’t actually exist in reality, and they have to work from a formal definition, right? But I think, without getting into the specifics of like, that guy’s biblical interpretation, it’s pretty obvious that they have a definition of “christian” that doesn’t line up with the others.
You might, instead of bringing up the scotsman fallacy, have better luck in hitting them with what the scotsman fallacy hearkens to, and asking them for a clear definition that you might then be able to push back on with counterexample.
Basically, I am accusing you of the fallacy fallacy.
You know, I’ve been noticing more and more that lemmy has a bunch of people who just fuckin hate religion straight up, edgy 2010’s reddit atheism style. I don’t necessarily disagree with a lot of their criticisms, but it has gotten kind of annoying seeing people attribute these clearly complex and incentive driven behaviors to something so broad, so old, and so vague.
It seems pretty obvious to me personally that conservatives have kind of given up on contesting civil rights and gay rights as a means to differentiate themselves from the other neoliberals, since those issues remain pretty deeply unpopular to contest, and are moving to this as sort of the next thing in their playbook, the next highest profile minority that they can easily lambast on nightly news. All while they try to roll back those other issues through every possible angle they might be able to work in local, state, and federal government.
That’s even a pretty big oversimplification of the issue, and the different forces involved, right, like it’s not really tied into why or how specifically they’re doing that, right, but it’s really stupid to even have that surface level understanding, and still bump up against people insisting that it’s more singularly some other driving, evil force. As though you couldn’t, were you to analyze christianity, split such a thing up into another whole litany of forces, another whole network of relations, causes and effects.
It says right in the Bible that being LGBT is a sin worthy of being sent to hell and that Jesus wants his enemies killed. Do you need me to quote chapter and verse?
Hey you know what? I fully admit I am an angry atheist. That means I say mean little things sometimes. You know what I don’t do? I don’t beat a trans kid to death inside a school bathroom, I don’t commit war crimes, and I dont descrate cultural sites.
You really want to both sides this? You really want to compare a few mean little comments to beating a child to death?
that’s a pretty nice bait
Beautiful sermon, bless.
And I suppose allowing people to you use whatever bathrooms they want would end bullying?
It could definitely remove one of the most notorious and dangerous places kids get bullied.
Just because you want to be a peeping Tom and watch folks in the bathroom doesn’t mean everyone else does.
It could definitely remove one of the most notorious and dangerous places kids get bullied.
Really? Please explain how that wouldn’t make them 10x more likely to be bullied. I’ll wait.
Just because you want to be a peeping Tom
Ah yeah, prove your point with personal insults, that’s convincing.
What’s your proposal, then?
Considering they think being trans is a choice, I think you can guess what their proposal is.
Considering this person thinks being trans means you are whatever gender you look like I think you can guess they’re a TERF.
Oh I know they’re a TERF.
I don’t think anyone is saying changing bathrooms will end bullying. Judging by the conversation I’m seeing I think most people are upset that a child in a government institution was physically beaten to death.
Although based on your comment it doesn’t seem like you’re on the same page as those people.
Weird cuz there’s an entire sentence in the headline of this article that mentions banning bathrooms. What do you think they were implying by that?
This whole post and all its threads are a ducking train wreck.
Anyway… Looking beyond the headline “Oklahoma governor Kevin Stitt signed a bill that required public school students to use bathrooms that matched the sex listed on their birth certificates.”
I think that’s fucked because it others trans people and sends the message that hating trans people is ok. And I think that makes assholes more likely to be violent towards trans people.
And also a trans kid in this was beaten to death, and might have survived had the school called a goddamn ambulance, or if they had done anything to counter anti-trans hate.
Idk what the duck do you want to hear exactly?
That we should force trans kids to use the bathroom of their birth certificate sex? Or that we shouldn’t?
Maybe instead of dancing around with questions just state your opinion?
Idk what the duck do you want to hear exactly?
I want to hear exactly what I asked for. That the author is dishonestly blaming this senseless death on bathroom laws. That they’re rage-baiting to feed the machine that stifles any sort of progress.
I want to hear an actual answer to the questions I ask instead of deflection.
Top voted comment is
All part of their plan
They aren’t using whatever bathrooms they want. They are using the bathroom that people of their gender are supposed to use.
But do explain to us why you want this man to be in a women’s bathroom. Or locker room.
That is Ben Melzer. He is a male model. He was also born biologically female.
Do you think women would feel comfortable or safe with him in there?
They aren’t using whatever bathrooms they want. They are using the bathroom that people of their gender are supposed to use.
And their “gender” is whatever they want it to be so, yes they are.
But do explain to us why you want this man to be in a women’s bathroom.
I mean this is an anecdote. And an exceptional one at that. I can show you a dozen women who look like men. Women like the one in the OP who was beaten to death in a women’s bathroom.
Could we not just have gender neutral bathrooms? ie. A hallway/long room with 5 doors on each side and behind each of those doors you have a sink/toilet/urinal. Each door is actually a door from floor to ceiling.
Sure! Just don’t pretend like doing so is somehow protecting trans people from bullying. Or that the opposite is not.
Absolutely, no pretending here, bullying is a larger systemic issue that requires many different approaches to solve. It’s not a one size fits all solution in a sense and requires all of us as a society to work together.
Just as there are many different types of bullies, there are many different vectors of bullying, such as in person, online, or indirect. Each would need a different approache to mitigate.
Sure but we’re discussing a very specific approach.
And their “gender” is whatever they want it to be so, yes they are.
No.
Their gender is not a choice.
Do you think being gay is a choice as well?
I mean this is an anecdote. And an exceptional one at that. I can show you a dozen women who look like men. Women like the one in the OP who was beaten to death in a women’s bathroom.
I see, so it’s okay for trans people to use the bathroom of their gender as long as they don’t look like they’re trans.
so it’s okay for trans people to use the bathroom of their gender as long as they don’t look like they’re trans.
LOOOOLOLOL That was your argument, not mine.
I don’t care what bathroom you use, just dont go around pretending like bathroom rules got this kid killed.
just dont go around pretending like bathroom rules got this kid killed.
Had they been allowed to use the other bathroom they wouldn’t have been beaten to death by girls in the girls bathroom, would they?
They were a trans girl. 🤦♂️ And they could have been beaten anywhere.
No it wasn’t. At all. I think trans people should use the bathroom of their gender period.
But then I don’t think being trans is a choice.
You didn’t answer my question- is being gay a choice?
No it wasn’t. At all.
Holy backpedal Batman. You posted a photo of a man and then asked:
Do you think women would feel comfortable or safe with him in there?
What was your argument if not that women would be uncomfortable because he looked like a man?
is being gay a choice?
No. But people don’t go around pretending to be gay to take advantage of women.
Sorry… are you now saying that being trans is a choice because some people pretend to be trans? Also, how exactly do you take advantage of women by pretending to be trans?
This is some weird TERF shit.
No. But people don’t go around pretending to be gay to take advantage of women.
Oh, you’re just a bog standard conspiratorial TERF. It’s all making sense now.
No, but I don’t see why that’s a reason not to allow people to use the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity. Do you have an actual argument you wanted to make, or are you just asking stupid questions?
The title of this article is very obviously suggesting that someone died as a direct result of bathroom laws.
When the state shows solidarity with anti-trans bigots it emboldens those bigots to act out.
Anyway your comment distracts from the real issue.
Some people hate trans people enough to kill them just for existing. That is patently wrong, outrageous, disgusting, immoral, sickening, and horrific.
If I see anyone insulting, injuring, or harassing a person with bigoted insults, I will be compelled to do something to stop it. I’m fucking sick to death of fucking nazis acting with impunity. They need to creep back into the sewers where they came from and STFU.
Anyway your comment distracts from the real issue.
There are several issues. The fact that you deflect and refuse to acknowledge one for the other just proves that I’m right.
Trans kid was murdered. Any decent human being considers that the main issue.
The kid wasn’t killed directly because of the laws but because of anti-trans hate. Bathroom laws only foment that hate.
Any decent human being considers that the main issue.
It is the main issue. That doesn’t mean all other issues suddenly cease to exist.
The kid wasn’t killed directly because of the laws
They weren’t killed at all because of the laws, which the title of this article is obviously implying.
Why does no one cares that the author is intentionally spreading disinformation?
“The bullying had started in earnest at the beginning of the 2023 school year, a few months after Oklahoma governor Kevin Stitt signed a bill that required public school students to use bathrooms that matched the sex listed on their birth certificates.”
Nex was assaulted in the bathroom. The article doesn’t go into detail, but based on context, Nex outwardly appeared like a boy, but was forced the use the girls bathroom. Laws that don’t specifically call for inequality can still be used to harass very targeted and specific group. This is why getting rid of ridiculous bathroom bills is important, and this is why Republicans push so hard to implement them. It’s not about creating safer environment for most people, but about creating a very obvious, uncomfortable, and unsafe environment for a very specific group of people, in this case, transgender and non-binary people.
What is the issue they’re trying to deflect?
Scroll up
You haven’t complained about any “issue”. You’re just asking questions and speaking vaguely. What is your point?
What fucking business is it of yours? I mean, really. You wanna do dick checks of everyone using a public bathroom? Go the fuck ahead, I dare you.
What fucking business is it of yours?
It’s as much my fucking business as it is the author’s, yours, OP’s, or any of the fucking people commenting here.
You wanna do dick checks of everyone using a public bathroom? Go the fuck ahead, I dare you.
That’s fucking disgusting and fucking inappropriate, why the fuck would I do ever fucking do that?
This is exactly what the GOP wants. It’s only going to embolden them to spread this horseshit.
THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TO ARM UP AND BE SEEN READY TO FIGHT
These people know you’re a doormat and a pushover.
I have to admit, one of my first emotional responses was anger. I want vengeance. When will we see the day the bullies, abusers, murderers, and their enablers receive justice?
Not civilized “justice” in court rooms, on pieces of paper, with well-dressed men and women arguing politely over legal arcana.
Blood for blood. There should be a mortal fear that if they harm one hair on our heads, something worse will happen to them by far.
Don’t tell me this won’t bring anyone back. Don’t tell me to be better than our enemies. If you will assault someone over their skin color, gender, sexual orientation, you don’t deserve the breath of life.
It’s a social contract thing. Conservatives insist on being granted all of the benefits you get by signing an accord with the rest of us, but then act as though they are exempt from it’s requirements.
As far as I’m concerned, they aren’t covered by the agreement anymore, and should be deprived of any protection offered by it.
The problem with mob justice is lack of due process. It frequency gets the wrong person as it can’t be reasoned with.
Yeah, and if you remove justice by due process by installing fascist bigots in all positions of the judicial system, then all you’re left with is mob justice. And we ought to be angry about that too.
No, I’m sorry, if a person was bullied for a year, that was the time for “due process” to protect them and society by preventing further harm. Now it is too late.
They caused someone to die by their violent actions, I am fully in favor of violent retaliation here, and as I said not looking to be convinced otherwise.
There are some things our society gets right, and some things it gets wrong. Passivity in the face of violence is a mistake IMO.
It’s never too late to justice to be done. Though more of it has to done the later it is left. No one is talking passivity here. Everyone wants something done this time and done sooner next time.
Mob justice is not justice at all.
Yes it is
Anarchy doesn’t work.
Anarchy was never mentioned.
The problem with mob justice is that it can be leveraged directly in to fascism. This is exactly what happened with the French Revolution and the Soviet one. In both cases valid anger against oppression was directed in to paranoia that allowed for the reestablishment of an authoritarian order instead of liberation. Anger is foolish and easily manipulated. That’s why it’s the only emotion the right wants anyone to experience. That’s why it’s the only emotion patriarchy allows men to express.
Anger is good for destroying things. Some things need to be destroyed. But those things that need to be destroyed are systems, not people.
Anger is activating and should absolutely drive you to action, but the action you take shouldn’t also be decided by the anger. Let anger wake you up, and compassion guide the action you take.
History repeats itself, at least most of the time. That’s why we should learn from the past because humans haven’t changed that much in the way we think under certain circumstances.
the people who make the laws simply do not care about dead trans people. to them that is one step closer to the world they want.
Of course not. Empowering women, poc and the LGBTQ+ community would actively hurt them being in power. So better to make laws to keep those groups at the bottom.
Delusional fuckers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_…
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Somehow I’m reminded of Dead Poets’ Society even though the specifics are quite different. But it seems like something (the overall culture?) is pushing a whole lot of confusion on children that wasn’t there 20 years ago.
But also, teenagers can be real shits sometimes. I had my part of that, and the weirdest thing I was was being a bit nerdy and socially inept.
Direct result of the bathroom laws and other transphobic policies because it emboldens the most fucked up to act out and think they can get away with it (as they probably will)
@return2ozma Conservatives see this and applaud. This makes them happy. It puts a smile on their faces, but then they’ll turn around and argue online that it’s not about blind hate. They all know, deep down, that they’re evil pieces of shit. They DO KNOW and perform all sorts of mental gymnastics to half convince themselves otherwise.
Every time they see the evil they’re doing in the world this hypocritical dichotomy churns in their brains, and I hope on their deathbed they’re consumed by it.
While it might be true that conservatist culture is a big reason why this person is now dead, I don’t think the majority of any group is celebrating on this. And it’s dehumanizing to paint any group like that.
It’s the truth.
The majority might not celebrate this murder directly, but support for the Republican party in the US is implicit support for dehumanization of trans people which inspires these murders. The policies and rhetoric used by the mainstream right-wing are responsible for this death.
The only people responsible for this death are the people who bashed this person’s head on the floor.
If we want to list the people who contributed to this death happening, the list is longer and contains elements you would probably not like to hear.
Yeah seriously. I thought they were pro life…?
Not pro-life, but anti-choice.
You’ll notice this trend continues beyond the topic of women’s health.
History will remember them the way we remember the racists who upheld Jim Crow in the American south.
Assuming that there will be history of course.
