People seem to be forgetting the mod reminder, and I’m tired of deleting posts and banning people and I do not want to lock the thread, so here is a reminder of the reminder.
If you are a liberal don’t care about your opinion.
Might want to calibrate your use of “liberal” for your audience.
Im curious if they oppose the ideology or if they think it’s the opposite if conservative because American schools do a bad job of teaching most philosophy.
Which is why nobody cares about GOP opinions and why most of the world thinks you are retarded. Like it or not, you live with people different from you, and you need to learn to play nice and compromise. I’m not saying to give up your morals completely, but meet in the middle and come up with something that works for both of you.
Go back to X
Thanks for letting us know this vital information.
Ok tankie.
The above comment was a knee-jerk “okay tankie” comment.
Yep! And it’s deleted. Are you suggesting I should have kept it up?
Either your username is meta, or you need the Billy Goats Gruff to bring some clarity to your life under the bridge.
Well, I’m not a liberal but I agree with that post
I kinda think you do.
What part of liberalism do you disagree with?
Are you anti-capitalist?
Do you think all citizens should not have equal rights under the law?
Do you think government should have a more intrusive role in private life or business?
Do you oppose what the founding fathers of America created?
Are you just confusing Liberalism, which is an ideology, with progressivism (the actual opposite of conservative?)
The problem is people like Andrea Junker here have gone way past the point of reasonability with their claims. So the people who are “supporting racism, …etc” don’t actually believe that they’re doing that. Because one teeny step out-of-line on the left, and you’re labeled right wing, and jumped on by thirsty hoards of people who would rather eat their own.
Nobody who’s voting republican actually believes you when you say they are supporting these things, because we live in clown world, and they’re all brainwashed into thinking that you’re lying.
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought. Meanwhile, I’ve got a previously Trump supporter boss, who I’ve slowly become friends with and have shown him the problems on the right and moved him further to the left.
It can be done, but it requires not being a rabid animal about it.
When you become as reactionary as your opponents, then you’re no better than them. Thank you for not being like this.
So If I am as vehemntly against murderers as they are about murdering, I’m as bad as the murderer?
You’ve nicely summed up centrism.
Walk softly, and carry a big stick. You have the Declaration of Independence and the Boston Tea Party to guide any future actions you take to stop your current fascist leader. DO SOMETHING. You’re fucking up my country too.
The Boston Tea Party? You mean the thing the colonists tried to blame on Native Americans?
Maybe people shouldn’t be guided by extremely fucking racist things when trying to stop a fascist?
Just FYI, you sent me a PM with your wrong sockpuppet account. You were supposed to use kreskin, not the account you used to reply to yourself:
And you might read the last part of the first paragraph of the Wikipedia link you didn’t read since it backs me up.
Ever since the run up to Trumps first presidency I think you would agree that the republican party has become increasingly unhinged. And how has the democrats responded? With civility (in most cases.) And where has that got them? Your democracy is being dismantled, oversight removed, aid removed, trade wars with allies, etc. They got here by arguing in good faith, by being civil and not wanting to be labelled a reactionary.
Oh, and if you honestly believe you’re no better if you’re being reactionary towards fucking nazi saluting cunts, then fuck you. From the bottom of my heart, get absolutely fucked
Being reactionary to a nazi salute at a presidential inauguration is warranted, reasonable, and useful.
Being reactionary to my 70 year old neighbor who ate too many paint chips as a child because he had a Trump sign in his lawn for 2 weeks before the election is less useful.
Being reactionary against an anonymous stranger in your own digital echo chamber is pointless (assuming their bad argument isn’t also in bad faith).
On the contrary, the fascist bastards need to be called out. I wasn’t defending THEM, I was defending the average right of center voter. Those fascist animals should be put down. I’m not your enemy. They are.
I was defending the average right of center voter
Who voted for the fascists, making them fascists themselves
Thus you see the utter banality of evil and how it gains power and momentum. From people not actually DOING something.
What are YOU going to DO to stop them, American?
You have the Declaration of Independence, Second Amendment rights, and you know who they are.
Because one teeny step out-of-line on the left, and you’re labeled right wing
Genuinely trying to figure out what you’re referencing. Are we talking “one teeny” Daniel Perry shooting? Or is this “one teeny” mega-millionaire Dave Chappelle not getting a sixth Netflix comedy special because he’s become too transphobic? Or is this “my kids won’t talk to me anymore because I screamed ‘Pull your pants up!’ at Kendrick Lamar during the Superbowl Halftime Show”?
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought.
:-/
I’ve got a previously Trump supporter boss, who I’ve slowly become friends with and have shown him the problems on the right and moved him further to the left.
Doing the yeoman’s work of leftism by… checks notes… sucking up to my Trump-loving boss.
When you have a job you sometimes need to get along with your boss.
Just because they live in a clown world doesn’t mean we do.
Honestly at this point I don’t know if any Trump voters are intelligent enough to understand how wrong they are and how they’ve enabled really shitty people to do horrible things.
Like, genuinely, is it worth even trying to be nice or have a conversation in good faith when it’s basically impossible to do that even if you try. These folks are so far divorced from reality you can’t have a good faith convo because they don’t respect truth and won’t engage in good faith themselves.
You can’t really force these idiots to understand how wrong this shit is when they seemingly can’t even comprehend it. Like they’re just genuinely that fucking dumb.
They’ve gone to the election spouting claims immigrants are eating peoples pets, that they’re going to evict them all etc. If you’ve paid any attention to the run up for the election and yet claim they’re not voting for racist politics I really don’t know what to tell you.
They’re racists. Voting for the republican party because they’re spouting racist claims, backing it up with nazi salutes and racist acts.
She’s not being a rabid animal. She’s calling it for what it is. You’re not obliged to use kiddie gloves with these cunts
What they are saying is some are so stupid they don’t see the racism for what it is.
Nobody’s born a nazi, and in my opinion painting millions of people with a broad brush solves nothing even if feels righteous. There’s a whole spectrum of people ranging from apathetic to ignorant to hateful and inflammatory.
As funny as it is to call someone an idiot for voting based on the price of eggs, it lacks empathy for what that might mean to some people. What if all you’ve been eating is instant ramen with an egg to pay for a medical bill that insurance didn’t cover and now you can’t even afford that.
You might be more inclined to scroll past yet another “Trump says wild shit” headline but engage more with right wing Tik Tok content arguing that the system is broken because of the ((woke-ism)) and ((DEI)). Even if you don’t believe it, now the social media algorithm has your weak spot and can put you in an echo chamber to exploit it…
Are there still people out there waving swastikas and chanting racist shit in red hats? Sure. But screaming at them won’t change anything. If someone can be changed, you’re not going to reach them now with lecturing and scolding. It’s not kiddie gloves, it’s taking a realistic approaches to convince real human beings
Careful citizen, it seems you’ve had a little too much to think.
More seriously, I wish you all the luck in the world with convincing people that their personal two minutes hate isn’t a good thing.
Doesn’t help that there’s a lot of people down so low that idealogical elitism and self righteousness is nearly all they have going for them. It’s a legitimate issue that there are a bunch of people who are so depressed about the state of the world that they end up defining themselves by the fact that they aren’t part of the “bad group”, so any humanization of that group robs them of something vital to them.
My challenge is many of these people voted to directly remove my equal rights and to potentially place me in a camp. How do I deal with those folks?
Bro literally sounded the independent thought alarm.
Upvoting before your comments gets yeeted by mods
They said nothing to get “yeeted” by mods.
You, and others, however, have either been outright violating rule 1 (be respectful) or are sure as hell skirting that line.
And before you start crying unfairness, people who have attacked you have been getting their posts removed too.
So how about before you decide that us mods are super, duper, trooper unfair, you maybe take a look at the fact that you’re getting a benefit.
Nobody who’s voting republican actually believes you when you say they are supporting these things, because we live in clown world, and they’re all brainwashed into thinking that you’re lying.
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought. Meanwhile, I’ve got a previously Trump supporter boss, who I’ve slowly become friends with and have shown him the problems on the right and moved him further to the left.
I’m not going to chide you, but after 8 years of trying, it’s only gotten worse.
I’m done. I need to focus on keeping my family safe and away from magas.
If you are having better luck changing hearts and minds, I applaud you for it. IME they aren’t interested in listening to anyone but Trump.
Don’t assume someone who voted for Trump lacks morals or is racist etc.
They could just be really stupid. Did you think of that?
Not sure why you’re being downvoted for being right. If the people who voted for Trump:
- Had 8 years to see exactly what Trump was like, and
- AREN’T wealthy business owners
…what other conclusions are there?
Im not American, so here is an outside viewpoint.
Being frustrated with cost of living going up Being ridiculed for just beng a republican voter Being frustrated with the country not putting their own tax paying citizens first
And now everyone on reddit and lemmy making it even worse Im affraid you’ll lose again. Jist keep alienating a majority of your people and see how it goes.
I was frustrated and angry at my government, you know what I did?
I cast a protest vote for the PSL. A lot of people Lemmy are going to be mad about that because they’re Dem partisans, but many people cast protest votes or stayed home. People who refused to vote for Harris I can understand.
To actually vote for Trump you have to be extremely confused. Fortunately, when prices don’t go down, everyone will realize he isn’t helping either. Then things get spicy!
Cruelty is their primary motivation
Hate
Or just disinformed
Yes, this is true for many.
Consider average intelligence, consider now that half of them are dumber than that.
I think this will be the dynamic that ultimately, finally, eventually-in-God-knows-how-long, bubbles over and hopefully addresses this nonsense. Enough people will slowly reach where many of us already are: just doooone. Out of patience and understanding.
If you can’t understand why people voted for trump you never had patience or understanding in the first place. Calling someone a word over and over does not make you right or what you say true.
America is waking up to the reality, as Germany once did, that 1/3 of their population wants to kill another 1/3 while the other 1/3 watches and stands by.
Your message is true, but your stats are off. Trump only got something like 15% of the total voting population in the US and won by like 1.5% of the vote. Studies say that historically, 60% of Americans are more liberal than the government - and that includes when Democrats have been in power.
Conservatives are a minority, and the MAGA crazies even more so. They just shout really loudly to convince everybody that they’re a majority. The real issue is that 50% or so of Americans simply don’t care enough to vote against fascism or care more about maintaining the facade of order than freedom. Like MLK said, the biggest threat to equal rights isn’t the white supremacist, but the white liberal who cares more about a negative peace than true justice.
Your numbers don’t seem right to me. He got ~45% of registered voters and ~28% of adults. Where’s your 15% from?
The tools that were used to drive Germany to madness are much the same we’re seeing today. A lot of that first 1/3 is being bombarded with mass media saying “Black people are trying to kill you! Leftists are trying to rob you! The Evil Biden Government is trying to transgender your children!” over and over and over for decades on end.
This isn’t just Americans waking up one morning and deciding to be MAGA chuds. It is a product of two generations of intense right-wing propaganda through every avenue of mass media.
That’s the one thing that gives me hope: their views changed radically but only in one generation through concentrated, directed effort. Calling people idiots or sheep misses the point that this is the natural result of exposing people to this shit daily.
Nobody in history ever thought people are inherently rational and considerate, society is held together through a culture that reinforces it. The tools of the information age can rapidly and drastically shape our society however we want it, we just need to pull them out of the hands of those billionaires burning civilisation to the ground for their own benefit.
It’s also Americans not doing anything about it for the last two generations. The right-wing propoganda machine has been a threat for literally my entire life, but it has been allowed to complete its ultimate goal without anyone actually trying to stop it.
Oh boy, I am seeing it first half my country. An old friend of mine shares right wing propaganda several times a day, and doesn’t matter how many times I try to counter argument - he just doesn’t care. No reply, no reaction, no nothing. Not even responding to DMs.
Lost cause these people, and I’ve got better things to do than driving two hours just to knock on his door and talk some fucking sense into him.
At least I am getting positive reaction from people who see what kind of bullshit he shares.
I honestly think the answer has to be banning the content. I don’t understand why we allow people to lie and demonize minorities on the internet and TV, it seems pretty obvious what giving a platform for hateful ideology leads to. For Americans, this level of censorship was a bridge too far, but hopefully other countries realize that it’s a necessary bulwark against the rise of fascism.
But how could we ban the content when the owners of the media are fascists? When all three branches of the government are dominated by people who rely on this messaging?
There was a time when this wasn’t the case, and there was independent media in the United States. Unfortunately, that was when it needed to be nipped in the bud.
I honestly think that removing the Fairness Doctrine doesn’t get pointed to enough as one of Reagan’s massive blows to the U.S.
It gets even more basic than that.
Trump is just plain repulsive.
No. Liberals are not in a position to judge. Genocide is the worst possible crime. And at the very least, every Harris voter decided genocide support wasn’t a dealbreaker. So they know exactly what it is to set their morals aside to support their demagogue. They’ve lost any right to claim the moral high ground.
Now if you didn’t vote for either Harris or Trump? Judge away.
But hey, Trump’s going to turn Palestine into an all inclusive resort, and the Palestinians will get to stay, right? RIGHT!?
Disingenuous fuckwad
And that would’ve been different under Harris how exactly?
You’re not in a position to accuse anyone of being disingenuous, when you’re in the middle of gaslighting.
And that would’ve been different under Harris how exactly?
Just use fewer words to get your point across next time:
I’m uninformed on this topic
By all means, oh wise one, inform me.
Was she working with Hilton instead of Sandals? I can’t seem to find anything about her resort plan being all inclusive though, so you would probably have to pay for food and such.
Y’all really do believe a Democrat quietly committing a crime is superior to a Republican loudly committing a crime. Wild.
You’re a dipshit. Sorry, but I’m fucking sick of arguing with assholes or your ilk. Obviously the Dem stance on Gaza wasn’t great, but you’re either willfully ignorant of so fucking stupid I’m amazed you remember to breathe if you ever for one second believed that Trump would be better for Palestine than Harris. Sometimes intelligent people are forced to pick between the lesser of two evils, but you wouldn’t understand with your “breathe in, breathe out” mental capacity.
Actually, I’m not sorry. Fuck you dude, I hope your cock rota off
I don’t think either would be better.
But I do think this rage is more a product of your insecurities than anything to do with me. Y’all know you’re genocide supporters now, and it’s not meshing with your self-image. It’s taken away any shred of moral superiority you held over Red MAGA.
And if you voted for Trump, you supported the Palestinian genocide and the genocide of American minorities through the silent violence of the oppression of Project 2025 (as well as everything else in there such as the destruction of the American educational system), increasing the global power of Russia by appointing a known Russian asset to the presidency of the US (and all the other Russian assets that he was going to put into power through his cabinet), and the murder of potentially millions of Americans through another pandemic event, like Trump did during COVID.
And if you voted for neither? You were okay with either option happening. You didn’t care enough about genocide to prevent other genocides from occurring as a consequence of the election.
This is such peak Blue MAGA denial. Especially feigning concerns for Trump’s Covid deaths, which were absolutely eclipsed by Biden’s when he forced everything back open.
Bro you might be the catalyst for me to pay Sync for the ability to tag users
When you’re so deep in denial, you have to pay for a service to maintain it. LoL
Blue MAGA isn’t a thing buddy. The only fascists were those that supported the actual fascist candidate.
Blue Maga is a term dipshits use to manufacture false equivalence.
I wonder if you’ll be the first to take me up on this challenge. It’s mostly been ignored so far, but one person claimed it wasn’t possible for them to do because they lived in Japan, which was amusing:
If I challenged you to send an email to a prominent person- a celebrity or politician or business leader- to ask them to use their access to the media to speak on behalf of Palestine every time you decided to discuss last year’s election, would you do it?
Can’t win on your single issue? Then vote to make everything worse, including the issue that you use as a cudgel to disguise your authoritarian power fantasy!
As a trans person, and I mean this to my core, go fuck yourself. Gaza will be a parking lot now because of tankies like you. It’s impossible to put pressure on our government to help Palestine if we’re busy trying to keep our own country afloat and stop new genocides and horrors within our own borders. Shame there was no “perfect option”, or whatever bullshit you’re peddling.
Your calling genocide a “single issue” as if it were equally as important as school vouchers is an unserious approach to politics.
Collapse of the country and purging of illegals and minorities is the same thing as school vouchers to you?
Letting Trump win really increased the chance people are going to be placed in concentration camps.
Remind me when I am being lead to the gallows for being bi to congratulate you on your moral victory.
Nah man One party is going to do a genocide And the other party is going to do a genocide, is fascist and will probably do more genocides
Wow you have met them all? Incredible how some have time to deeply understand and meet a full nation worth of people.
Little reminder: Those people you are alienating, those as per your and Lemmy judgement “Nazi, racists, uneducated, homophobic, traitors, fascists, unethical, uncompassionate and misogynistic” are voters with as much rights as you have to decide the course of the nation
And guess what, YOU NEED THEM.
Not in the sense of WOW WE NEED THEIR VOTES MAYBE WE SHOULD NOT TREAT THEN LIKE SHIT kind of thing, although you actually DO need those votes.
I mean in the sense that these are the standard blue collar, hard workers of the country. Those plumbers, electricians, waste disposal, street sweepers, truck drivers, and so on
You know, the people? The workers that the Dems and libs cry daily to protect their rights?
Well those are the ones you are alienating with your message. The common man.
Dems have become the party of the coastal elites. You can’t cry against the stablishment because you became the stablishment.
So, it is alrighty if you think that alienating and pushing them common people outside of your leftist bubble is working for your cause.
But remember why you lost the election. Try to understand why if “we think the others are SO BAD and shout it into the wind, why didn’t we win?”
Because until you answer that question, you’ll be kept surely in permanent stunlock.
So go, sure. Protest, picket and outrage against every little thing they do. Tire yourselves. Double down on the name calling.
That surely will work wonders
Surely my message will be seen by the millions of Trump voters on… checks notes …Mastadon
How do people not realize they live in an entirely separate digital space from the right.
Not just separate platforms (YouTube vs Rumble, Mastadon/Bsky vs X/Truth) but perfectly segregated by their personalized algorithms. They keep us separated by design. How many trans influencers are on truth social? Not enough for a user to view them as anything but an “other”…
This post is reaching nobody that needs to see it unless it has a sarcastic title over the screenshot
The message is for this post in general. I’d say it is reaching the intended audience
Trump supporters are some of the most whiny, needy, and snowflake people i have ever had the misfortune to meet/hear. They are an extremely vocal minority that is going to fuck things up for everyone. And guess what? The common man ISNT a nazi. They aren’t bigots, they aren’t sexist, traitors or unethical. Those are the minority. And the real problem is that those people think they are allowed to express these views. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequences.
Yeah I always say, you should judge a person by the contents of their soul, not by how often they beat their wife.
NotAllWifeBeaters
They didn’t need my daughter, which is why they voted for someone who would make her part of his domestic genocides. And that’s why they forced us both to leave the country. So I don’t need them.
Well those are the ones you are alienating with your message. The common man.
‘Your policy of “don’t support Nazis” is alienating the people who I relate to.’
So go, sure. Protest, picket and outrage against every little thing they do. Tire yourselves. Double down on the name calling.
Pot calling the kettle black lol.
You have devaluated the meaning of the word Nazi then complain when people don’t think as you do. Check how that is working out
The sheer willing ignorance of your comments are mind boggling. We have literal nazis doing the salutes in front of crowds as well as posting and talking about nazi racial ideologies. Please PLEASE work on your critical thinking and getting better at looking at things logically and from a mindset outside of your own little demographic. If you cant/won’t even make that attempt than you aren’t even worth having a discussion with.
You’re the one whining, buddy.
Oh. Greet your boss like this for the next week:
Let me know how “the common man” treats you after you start doing that in public.
That’s bullshit, I’m working class and the majority of my coworkers are left leaning. And guess what? If a plumber shows up to our job site with a Trump sticker, he doesn’t get to work for us that day and is told why. There are plenty of people with the skills society needs that don’t openly display their hatred.
Yes your bubble is the whole country. Sure
Seems like more people agree with me than you, so yea, I actually think it does represent a majority.
Says the person in a bubble to someone representing a larger portion of the country.
Little reminder: Those people you are alienating, those as per your and Lemmy judgement “Nazi, racists, uneducated, homophobic, traitors, fascists, unethical, uncompassionate and misogynistic” are voters with as much rights as you have to decide the course of the nation
Yep. They sure do. And I’m judging them for the direction they have chosen.
How is it whenever anyone makes a post like this, it’s “ZOMG don’t alienate the magas.” Do you suppose there are folks who care enough about unity to tell the magas maybe they shouldn’t alienate all the non-magas in their lives? Do you tell magas that? I have multiple neighbors who had signs in their yard for YEARS proclaiming Biden voters or Democrats as traitors, morons, etc as they adjusted the mix of their handwritten signs every so often.
Seems to me they have spent the past several years alienating me. Seems to me they have voted for policies and politicians that are explicitly intending to harm anyone who isn’t a white cisthet man. That includes quite a lot of groups that neither me nor anyone near me is a member of, but also includes groups that my children, my wife, and for that matter, a great many Trump voters themselves comprise.
And it seems to me that, just like when there was a bully in school as a kid, it’s somehow the victim always asked to be the bigger person, not the bully. That was horseshit then, and it’s horseshit now.
I mean in the sense that these are the standard blue collar, hard workers of the country. Those plumbers, electricians, waste disposal, street sweepers, truck drivers, and so on
Ask me about my background. (no don’t, but also don’t assume I’ve never been one of these people and can’t identify with where they are coming from)
Somehow the party with the worst record towards unions and labor has convinced all the folks with Union jobs that they will save them, and that they’ll do so with a bsuinessman at the head of the country with a reputation for not paying his bills. And I should sympathize with that?
I reject your scolding and premise at the most fundamental possible level.
These people have spent more than the past 8 years being the loudest, rudest, most hateful group in any venue. On a personal level, we have avoided family gatherings to not have to listen to their shit, though somehow we eventually end up hearing it anyway. The policies they support obviously and openly hurt anyone not like them, and a very large percentage of the time they hurt themselves also. They are currently loudly cheering as our nation and government are being actively dismantled by the man they voted for.
I have nothing left for these people but to keep anyone and anything I care about as far out of their path and notice as possible, and hope that 5 years from now we can be arguing about this and not decaying in a mass grave someplace after they work their way down the “First they came for” ladder until finally they find something my family needs to be sent to a camp for.
We supported Trump because we believe that Biden’s policies have had a detrimental impact on our country. Over the past four years, those of us who work hard for a living have faced significant challenges. Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many. My son, for example, would have to work far harder than I ever did just to afford rent. We voted for a better future for the working class.
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity. The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns. It’s important to reflect on how Biden’s actions impact the world and the people who suffer as a result. Blaming a president who is advocating for the wellbeing of hardworking Americans misses the larger issue at hand. It’s essential to focus on the real challenges facing our nation, rather than directing blame toward individuals who are working to create a better future for the people of this country.
Such bullshit lol
My dad’s one of you. It was painful to see him Manchurian candidate unchecked bullshit he’s being fed nonstop, just like you.
You cannot objectively justify anything you just said.
It’s just fascist lip service
I’m not your father!
I 100% agree with your critiques, but I don’t see how Trump was going to solve them. However, I’m pretty disappointed that you’re at -20 at the time I’m making this comment (thanks blue maga groupthink), so I’m upvoting you to try and turn the tide. But all standards, you have a well written comment that should not be downvoted into oblivion.
This reaction is fairly common on Lemmy; when users disagree, they often downvote. However, the joke is on them, as I don’t concern myself with negative votes—what truly matters to me is fostering meaningful dialogue. Ultimately, Lemmy tends to function as a collection of small echo chambers.
I was once a Democrat, but after the way Bernie Sanders was treated, I can no longer align myself with the party. I would have supported Sanders over Trump, and I believe many others would have as well.
Yep, totally agree. Sad to see so many on here knee jerk being angry at you instead of engaging in constructive outreach to an obviously attentive and likely persuadable voter.
This is interesting because the two men have nothing in common.
What they have in common is a call for change. Unfortunately, we are often limited to just two choices in the political process.
Sadly only one proposed change that would help most people while the other is creating an authoritarian police state.
I would have supported Sanders over Trump
This is it, right here. The DNC needs this rammed through their skulls until they understand it.
It still doesn’t make sense to me to vote for Trump given what you’ve said though-- he’s radical, but in precisely the wrong way to achieve your stated goals.
Bernie Sanders was often labeled as “radical” by his critics. However, living in the United States over the past four years has led many to seek alternative options for addressing the country’s challenges. If you’ve been following the ongoing issues at the Social Security Building? particularly regarding Social Security and retirement systems, it’s clear that reforms are needed. Immediate action is required to ensure the sustainability of Social Security for future retirees.
I agree that the Biden administration’s policies where not good enough to address the real issues facing working people in the country. They were pulling from the same neoliberal economic playbook that both parties have used and has been shown over and over again to increase inequality instead of decreasing inequality. Biden and Democratic leadership think we are still in the world economic situation of the 1990’s and refuse to believe otherwise.
However Trump on the other hand doesn’t even have a plan. He was correct in saying “The Economy sucks”, but had no other plan to fix the system besides “Drill Baby Drill” and “Let the Oligarchs decide how the economic system works”. Harris might have been an out of touch elite, oblivious to economic reality. But Trump is pain and destruction incarnate and will only cause more pain and destruction during his tenure.
The reality is the US Empire is dying and it can either go gracefully or with pain and anger while it takes the rest of the world with it.
It’s going with pain an anger, but thanks to Trump’s trade wars the rest of the world is finally distancing itself from the USA enough that we might not be dragged down with you.
That’s the one silver lining to all this: America’s been on a clear path to fascism since GWB at the latest, but now that it’s finally here it’s being managed by an outright moron. Trump’s stupidity will be the one thing that saves the world.
Or ends it.
No, if the world ends it’ll be because of the American public’s stupidity. They knew what they were getting when they voted for Trump. Twice.
Dude’s got nukes, that doesn’t tend to end well.
The problem is you misunderstand macroeconomics on a fundamental level if you think the policies proposed by Trump or the actions taken by Trump so far will in fact bring down prices.
I get why you hoped he was telling the truth but if you ever had taken even intro macro you would know enough to doubt what he’s saying.
If you think Trump is more moral than Biden I’d ask why you think the guy who raped people and admitted to intentionally walking in on teenaged girls changing clothes because he could was more moral because that’s just bizarre.
If President Biden’s macroeconomic policies have contributed to the current inflation, it may be time to reevaluate and implement new macroeconomic strategies.
Like tariffs that give American businesses no alternatives but to pay more for the same thing they were importing already? I’m not sure why you think that will help.
Since calling you what you are is not allowed:
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I cannot see how you can look at this current administration and think that this is better in any way.
If you’re paying any attention, you’d be seeing you’ll get nothing but precisely the opposite of what you claimed you voted for. Given Trump’s history, you have no leg to stand on believing that liar.
You possess a unique perspective that many of us do not have, as it seems you are able to foresee the future. However, it’s important to acknowledge that Trump is following through on the promises he made, while Biden has not delivered in the same way. In his final actions, Biden prioritized securing the well-being of his family and ensuring their safety. In contrast, it often appears that Biden’s focus has not been on the American people or their interests.
Trump enriched the rich at the expense of the working person, just like he did in his first term. There are a million other things I could point out but I doubt you’d listen to a single one of them
I respectfully disagree. The working class experienced significant gains during the Trump administration, and the past four years under Biden’s leadership have been particularly challenging. These are the facts based on the experiences of many and the main reason Trump is now president. It’s important to recognize that the wealthiest individuals often remain insulated from the hardships faced by hardworking Americans, and they do not endure the same struggles as those in the labor force. Essentially they always win!
Name one way trump improved your life.
Thousands of people are currently dead because he did almost nothing to combat COVID, the economy wrecked partially for the same reason. Biden didn’t do a ton to improve or worsen economic conditions. And the public wasn’t aware of the few good things he actually did. Many people believed all the hilariously false shit about the damned laptop.
The reason trump is president right now is that a lot of billionaires worked to brainwash less educated people into voting squarely against their own interests.
Trump is currently letting the world’s richest man dismantle the government from within. If that one fact alone doesn’t alarm you I don’t know what to tell you.
Trump’s mishandling of COVID was nothing compared to the death and destruction he’s currently setting in motion. It will take this country 100 years to recover, if it ever does.
Good luck buying food once he deports millions of immigrants that currently make the food as cheap as it even is now. You won’t have to imagine produce prices tripling, you’ll see it if he actually does that shit.
Significant gains:
That dip is in employment due to COVID. You need a different chart that compares income adjusted for stimulus payments. Im about to get out of work but Ill try to source one for you if I remember.
You aren’t wrong that’s just the wrong chart.
Yes, I know what it was due to. That doesn’t change the fact that is literally the opposite of significant gains.
“facts based on the experiences of many” is a dangerous phrase to use because your perception can in fact be compared to statistical reality
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I’m all in for criticizing Biden’ support for Israel and I think that the Democratic Party prefers saying “vote for us, we are not the other guy” to actually addressing the glaring issues in wealth distribution, but… Trump spectacularized the erasure of trans people from official documents and the deportation of migrants, he is dismantling that little welfare the US has to eat it up with his oligarch buddies and you still think that he is somehow better? I don’t know if you’re a bot, a shill, or simply lack the political education needed.
That’s a lot of words when “I have a rudimentary education and no critical thinking skills, so I’ll believe whoever tells me what I want to hear” is so much shorter.
The kicker is watching the great orange moron you elected already doing the opposite of what you think you voted for, but you’re just too stupid to understand. Hope your son enjoys never owning a home and working two jobs.
What have their education have got to do with anything? Do you know what education they received?
You are just belittling them without arguing against anything they said. On top of that you wish harm to come to the offspring of this worker.
You know, those who are less capable to protect themselves. And you expect them to have a shitty life. Do you even read what you wrote?
You really want to be alienating these, as one would say with more respect “non educated” voters? Really
The ones that are the majority? That one who got trump the election?
My god you people are fucking delusional.
Mental health is a significant issue in today’s society, which is why I tend to avoid taking things too personally. When individuals respond with excessive anger, it often leads me to believe their frustration may stem from underlying issues unrelated to the topic at hand. Additionally, some individuals seem to struggle with engaging in constructive conversations with those who hold differing viewpoints, which is not reflective of the majority of us who are open to respectful dialogue.
A different issue is for some is the GOP supporters voted to put people in concentration camps regardless of your personal view on immigration or whether LGBT+ people can exist in public. That’s going to be an issue for some.
While I disagree with the approach of removing immigrants from the country, it raises the question of who allowed them to enter in the first place. Why hasn’t President Biden taken more decisive action to provide a pathway to citizenship for them? Ultimately, the current situation can be traced back to decisions made by the Biden administration. It’s as if we are experiencing a form of collective amnesia when it comes to addressing these issues. I have never heard President Trump make any statements suggesting that LGBTQ+ individuals should not exist.
Project 2025, which Trump has been following since inauguration day, makes the administration’s position on erasing queer people from America very clear.
And he also doesn’t have to say anything because his actions are saying plenty:
https://www.statnews.com/2025/01/28/hiv-aids-pepfar-funding-trump-administration-freeze/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgkj8gx1vy6o
There’s plenty more where that came from and it’s been less than a month.
The GOP has been dead set against any pathway to citizenship for Spanish speaking people not from Spain. It’s always easy to blame POTUS but Congress plays a huge role as well.
If there is no clear path for individuals to gain legal status, why allow them to enter in the first place?
I find their anger often comes from the frustration of arguing with someone whose viewpoint is further away from reality than their own.
We see you voting against your own interests and it makes us annoyed because we want the same things and so we should be on the same side.
It’s not simply anger, but rather excessive frustration that is difficult to manage. Having lived in this country over the past four years, I’ve witnessed significant challenges and setbacks. I’m voting in my best interest, and if others disagree, it’s important to recognize that everyone has different life experiences. We all face unique struggles, so it’s unfair to assume that I am voting against my interests when many of the things I care about have been negatively impacted.
Has what has happened in the past few weeks been helpful to you or has it been putting your finances at risk like everyone else in America who isn’t super wealthy? Consumer goods are more expensive and inflation is higher. Was that in your best interest? To have to pay more for things and for your pay to be worth less than it used to be? Do you think tariffs on goods from all over the world without giving American businesses alternatives is going to make things less costly?
You unapologetically voted for someone who is going to make mental healthcare even harder to access for people than before, so I’m not sure that you’re really in a position to be talking about how mental health is a significant issue.
It’s not necessarily a lack of education, I know a really smart surgeon, generally very reasonable, who fell for this stuff.
If you’ve never seen the echo chamber this guy lives in you don’t understand how bizarre it can be.
On the surface there’s a lot of influencers that can say truly regressive lies, and make them sound innocuous. They say it with such confidence and mixed in with truths and half truths. It can be hard to see the fallacies and misinfo even if you know what to look for.
There’s a constant drip of cherry picked stats and talking points designed to reinforce what he’s feeling. In the back of his mind he knows those support his case but he doesn’t really have an original source to reference. He tries to say them with the same confidence that he heard them with, but they’re not based in reality and look pretty ugly without the professional window dressing.
There’s videos where people do deep dives on this stuff (I can try to find one if you want). You could probably also experiment with it yourself if you have a VPN and a fresh/virtual device to make an account on.
I’m not going to argue with you because there’s enough other people doing that. What I am interested though is a few statistics about yourself to compare to what you’re saying.
You claim to be part of a group who " works hard for a living"
Just wondering what your line of work is and yearly income.
Have you always voted conservative? does your family vote conservative or are you the outlier?
What social media platforms do you use?.
What region of the USA do you live in? Normally blue/ red?
Thanks!
The last thing that’s going on in there is arguing. Maybe you are confused with belittling.
Purity tests is not how you get workers to your doomed cause
would you also like my bank account username and password?
Nope, was just hoping to understand your side of things a bit more, some context into how your opinions were formed. But clearly you’re not interested in any type of discussion.
Requesting that I provide personal information on a form before engaging in a discussion can come across as presumptuous. This is why I responded humorously to the question.
You could have easily provided some vague answer that would’ve been slightly helpful. But that would assume you’re here with good faith 😉
Oh shush. No amount of facts in any answer would have placated you and you know it
The sheer fact that your whole comment can be refuted and countered from just cursory searches and looking outside of curated news spaces means that you are either arguing in bad faith or you just choose to ignore reality. Either way your stupid decision is going to fuck over a huge number of people and that includes your son because trump has never worked a day in his life. He has bankrupt over 250 businesses, including a casino so he’s a shit businessman. Your inability or unwillingness to face reality is going to be responsible for everything that trump fucks up over the next, hopefully only, 4 years.
Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many.
Get ready for more inflation and less food and healthcare access
The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns.
Great, prepare for Palestine to not exist at all anymore.
I understand that the Democrats are also the party of the corporate oligarch overlords and are also fucking us over, but at this point supporting Trump is just throwing the baby out with the bath water, my guy. You have bad, and extra bad, and you think extra bad is better for some reason?
It seems like there are many individuals here with the ability to predict the future! If you have such insight, perhaps you could share tonight’s Powerball numbers?
Mods, stop removing only the aggressive messages that you disagree with. Please apply the rules evenly.
Native: What indicator would you consider that would make you say “ok, this is worse”? Because I sincerely believe that if you pick a reasonable one, it will probably happen.
We voted for a better future for the working class.
You laugh but that’s what they voted for. Empiric evidence suggests things weren’t too hot for them these last 4 years so I don’t know why would you laugh at them in any case
Because voting determines who will be president in the future. It’s not a “Did you like the last 4 years” exit poll. Given the choice between Trump and Kamala, one was clearly the worse choice comparatively if you wanted prices to go down over the next 4 years.
Sure, agreed. But they were convinced that voting away all their rights to the oligarchy was the way forward. The corporations won, Russia won. Disinformation convinced the majority of America to sign itself up to be raped and pillaged, and I will certainly laugh at those who think otherwise and the “magical egg price droppening” “magical house cheapening” are coming by stripping corporations of any and all restrictions
They aren’t wrong about why they voted. They are wrong about the results of Trump’s policies which is different.
I believe they believed Trump’s claims.
Doesn’t change my ability to laugh at their thinking. I had these “conversations” with friends and family repeatedly about what they were actually voting for and it made no difference. There is such a thing as the last laugh and however dark it is, as the world stage gets darker and darker, like a Greek tragedy, I will laugh as I watch it play out, sad as it is
Get out of here, fascist. You’re what’s wrong with my country.
I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the definition before using the term.
Such arguing
Much wow
You are just belittling them with no substance to your argument
There’s a tiny part of me that’s willing to allow that the people voting for him in 2016 just wanted to make their protests heard. Even though he was very, very clear who he is and what he stands for, people were struggling and made themselves heard in the shittiest possible way.
But the people who voted him in again, knowing exactly how it’s going to shake out could all drop dead at once and I wouldn’t shed a tear. Fuck every one of those cunts.
Hot take:
The problem isn’t the other middle class people who’ve been convinced to wear a different color hat.
The problem is the oligarchs who’ve been plotting to take over and destroy the power of the people by dismantling the government. The people who are actively doing that exact thing while the ignorant masses engage in tribalism and attacking people for voting.
Engaging on this topic is just furthering the distraction tactics. The people who’re actively working to destroy the government or implementing policies targeting minority populations are not your neighbors or anybody that you will run into on social media.
Oh but you don’t get it, they are NAZIS you seeeee
I mean I am sure of that even tho I haven’t actually met them or talked to them or even made an effort to understand them. But yeah pretty sure
Video or get the fuck out, you fucking nazi.
The last one of AOC looks like someone forgot to fully crop out the arm coming from out of frame. I bet she was going in for a hug.
Can we see some video of those stills?
But you’re their all time best seller 😂
How the arm got to that position matters. We know what Elon did. Unless there’s video I don’t know how the rest of those arms got raised.
find where this POS lives
I think once someone is making Nazi salutes on a presidential inauguration stage, we can safely call them a Nazi. And as the old saying goes, you know what you call all the people who sit down at a dinner table with a Nazi?
Fully agree that we can see the obvious fascists at the top and the rot seeps down. But idk that I can call 77 million people who casted one ballot Nazis.
My (maybe optimistic) perspective is that the rot has shallow roots. These days you don’t need thousands of dedicated grunts to print flyers and hang posters. Just get one billionaire with a social media platform and a few dozen managers and you can broadcast anything you want.
Germany had a reckoning after the war and plenty of people were able to admit that yes, in fact, they were Nazis and that was wrong of them. And then they tried to make things better.
Because they realized that maybe all they did was support the Nazis by wearing an armband, but that still made them a Nazi and that made them complicit.
Plenty more were never able to admit it but also were never willing to talk about what they did during the war out of shame and embarrassment. Because they also knew they were complicit.
All of these people who voted for Trump did not just sit down at a table with a Nazi. They went out of their way to go to a voting booth or sit down and fill out and mail a form to choose a man who made absolutely no secret about his Nazi ideals. The roots are very, very deep.
Right but this isn’t the conclusion of a world war yet. I don’t doubt that the problem gets worse after people are forced to participate or be complicit while atrocities are committed.
There’s a series of miniscule steps from being ok with a hateful statement to being ok with dangerous people being rounded up to being ok with dangerous political opponents being rounded up to being ok with gas chambers.
Assuming that everyone who ignores the first step is a full fledged Nazi isn’t putting faith in people to change or even resist. Plenty of people stepped out of line in Germany and paid the price.
The real lesson after WW2 is that the Nuremberg Trials were far too lax and narrow in scope. Germany’s populace (while on the cusp of swinging far right) went through the most thorough denazification. It’s still putting up much better resistance than the United States (which had basically no punishment for nazi sympathizers) or Italy (handwaved due to surrender).
What is the effective difference between a “full fledged Nazi” and someone who ignores all of their promises and votes for them anyway?
Ya, I think calling them all Nazis isn’t accurate or right. But you can absolutely call them Nazi supporters.
What is the fundamental difference between a Nazi and a Nazi supporter?
The word supporter of course.
Ok but I still partially blame the people who voted the oligarchs into power
If you want to come to that conclusion in a political postmortem 20 years from now I’d fully encourage it.
The problem is that right now the house is burning down and shaming people for playing with matches won’t save us.
Sure, but as a leftist who grew up in a deep red area, I can tell you that those people are, largely, uneducated and ignorant.
It is because of that ignorance that they’re able to believe the lies that led them to acting the way that they did. The people who bear the majority of the responsibility and blame are the ones who know that they’re taking advantage of and cultivating that ignorance.
I get to hear, in real time, the propaganda engine work on these people (which includes most of my family). I see how topics are framed, by media personalities, into palatable actions. As I’m writing this, there’s a podcast playing at my job, where DOGE is being celebrated for finding ‘fraud and abuse’. I know, for a fact, that the listeners don’t have a high school education and have no idea how the government’s payment systems work… but the radio is telling them that DOGE is doing good work.
So, how can they know any better? These are not people who’re ever going to continue their education and their media literacy skills were developed in the 80s. They’re simply not equipped to handle the scale of lying that exists in the modern world.
On the other hand, the person talking, has multiple degrees and has served in the federal government. That person KNOWS they’re lying but continue to do so because it is profitable. I find people like that to be far more culpable. They’re lying for profit (grifting, to use an over used term) and their lies reach millions of voters.
Then you have the people who benefit from the lies. Trump and Elon know that they’re dealing with ignorant people, they know exactly how to use populist rhetoric at public events. While, in private, they’re using the power that they’ve obtained to corruptly enrich themselves and their sycophants.
Direct your ire at the people who’re actively profiting off of lies and corruption. Help to educate the other people around you when they’re being fed lies.
Attacking your neighbor while Elon and Trump ransack the government is not only pointless, it’s completely counter-productive and ensures that we’ll never unify against this kind of power grab.
I live in the state that gave Trump his highest margin of victory, so I have seen what you describe many times.
My friend listened to punk music and played in punk bands. He was very conservative politically. I hadn’t seen him in a while and we decided to go to a show hours away and catch up. We had stopped talking politics to preserve our friendship. We were on our way back from the show, listening to Rancid, and I couldn’t stand it anymore. I was like “hey man, you love this music, but do you not hear the lyrics? How can you say the things you say?” I didn’t know he had changed.
He had been doing survey work for a mining company for years. He explained that after he got out of that job, everything became clear. He wasn’t conservative anymore, in fact he had become progressive.
He explained that when he worked with nothing but hard right conservatives, with Fox News on all day, it seeped into his brain and corrupted him.
This is an intelligent man I’m talking about. He was a victim of propaganda and was smart enough to realize it once he was away from it.
This is always on my mind:
"“We won the evangelicals. We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”
Trump said this at a speech in Nevada during the primary in 2016, and people cheered.
Ignorance is no excuse.
What if the system is designed to keep you ignorant?
One problem is the GOP has been taken over and continually converted to MAGA; it started with calling people “RINOs,” attacking each other for party purity.
“Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line.”
Naw, I’ll judge people based on a person to person basis and not just use generalized lazy ass blanket judgement on anyone whom isnt in my social/political/religious group. Stop adding to the problem.
On a person-to-person basis, I judge every person who voted for Trump because they voted for a fascist.
Just repeating a narrative does not make it true.
What narrative do you believe I’m repeating?
Sure, but Trump voters aren’t a lazy generalization.
“I want X bad thing to happen”
“Hey, this guy wants X to happen. That’s bad.”
“STOP GENERALIZING!!1!”
I’d agree that your reasoning makes sense but is reductionist when talking about America’s two party system.
I grew up in a conservative town and I personally knew lots of people that were truly, deeply compassionate people. Christian in the truly radical, hippy sense of the word. Except they had one issue, abortion made them sad.
It wasn’t any ignorance of the issue or believing in satanic baby eating, but a philosophy arbitrarily picked by their community. They didn’t hate anyone getting an abortion, they just had some utopian vision of a world where they didn’t happen.
Since abortions were framed as murder and one party promised to ban abortions and the other party expand access, they were told there was only one ethical choice.
So their one line of thought trapped them. I could argue up and down the ballot on issues they agreed with, how the economy should be handled, prison reform, etc… but that one stupid idea held them back.
They’re still good people, and voted 3rd party a few times when the mood struck them. But I don’t think wanting one bad policy (with the best intentions) makes them bad people.
So I’d say yes. In that instance, with those people, it’s generalizing to say they were on board with any of the hateful policies. They were held hostage by their single issue, and the right’s rhetoric made damn sure they could never wriggle out.
You’re doing it again brother. Its best to try and relax.
You want people to relax while we’re in the beginning of a fascist takeover of our country?
Pretending everything is fine is not a good strategy.
Everyday I read the news and get more depressed.
that’s why i only sit and read it once a week. the rest of the time I just skim headlines.
This may not be the best thread for your mental health in that case. It hasn’t been great for mine, taking care of all the rule violations.
Honestly, i have ground news that I subscribe too and most of the time I try (not too successfully since it’s EVERYWHERE) to avoid politics outside of it. I’m a federal employees as well so there’s even more fear involved.
