I’d like to know other non-US citizen’s opinions on your health care system are when you read a story like this. I know there are worse places in the world to receive health care, and better. What runs through your heads when you have a medical emergency?
A little background on my question:
My son was having trouble breathing after having a cold for a couple of days and we needed to stop and take the time to see if our insurance would be accepted at the closest emergency room so we didn’t end up with a huge bill (like 2000$-5000$). This was a pretty involved ~10 minute process of logging into our insurance carrier, and unsuccessfully finding the answer there. Then calling the hospital and having them tell us to look it up by scrolling through some links using the local search tool on their website. This gave me some serious pause, what if it was a real emergency, like the kind where you have no time to call and see if the closest hospital takes your insurance.
My wife needed her gall bladder out last year the most expensive part of the whole week-long ordeal was paying for parking at the hospital. She has private medical insurance through her work, but needing to deal with the paperwork and all that from the hospital wasn’t worth the effort.
The fact that people have to choose between bankruptcy or dying of preventable illness is kinda like school shootings: the fact that you tolerate this at all - let alone having a major party campaign on “these things are actually good and you should be happy about them” - is pretty much proof that all of you are completely insane.
I live in a western European country. A few anecdotes to illustrate what Americans don’t get about healthcare:
I was involved in a serious accident and the passenger in my car was taken to hospital in an ambulance and had to have scans, etc. It ended up costing 1000 Euros.
One of my teeth needed to be replaced by a dental implant. I had it removed, a bone graft was necessary, then a few months later they drilled a metal pin into the jaw bone, then they placed a crown on it. The pin was Swiss made, the dentist did a 3d scan of the inside of my mouth for the crown. I had a few return visits. It ended up costing me 3000 Euros total, but I specifically spread the appointments around the new year: november - january. This was a big deal for me, as I was unemployed and needed to dip into my already small savings.
I had a headache, so I bought myself some paracetamol(tylenol?) at the drug store. 50 for 2 euros.
Sounds ok, right?
Here’s the thing that Americans don’t get. These are all fully private prices.
The first incident, I received a bill because it would have to be paid by the other party’s insurance. 1000 Euros was the fully private cost without government intervention. The accident had happened just across the border in another country.
The second anecdote, this was also the fully private cost. Dental implants are not covered by healthcare. I have supplemental private dental insurance (20 Euros per month), which has a maximum deductable of 2000 Euros per year. Spreading it out meant I ended up spending only a few hundred euros, after I received money from my insurance a few weeks later.
The US system isn’t just absurdly expensive for people who aren’t insured, it’s absurdly expensive compared to fully private healthcare in plenty of developed countries.
Hell, have a look at how much it costs to get plastic surgery in the US. A boob job is likely to cost you less than a visit to the ER, despite the latter being a far more involved and expensive operation.
It seems obvious to me that a lot of price gouging and anti-competitive behaviour is going on in US healthcare, and simply regulating (not privatising) properly would already make things far more affordable. How else can you explain healthcare costs per capita being up to three times as high as comparably developed countries, but outcomes often being worse? Healthcare shouldn’t have to cost this much. The healthcare industry can make a reasonable profit while charging far more reasonable prices.
TLDR: you’re getting ripped off, but you have no choice in the matter, because what are you going to do if it’s an emergency? You can’t just leave the country.
I literally use the horror-stories about the US health care system to counter the bullcrap peddled by the white supremacist, pro-neocolonialism and pro-privatisation crowd here in South Africa.
Of course, it’s a pretty moot point, really - our entire political establishment seems dead-set on dismantling and sabotaging what little remains of our tattered public infrastructure anyway to facilitate their corrupt dealings with foreign creditors. They only seem to differ on whether to do it slow or fast.
Canada here: Unbelievable. It’s so foreign to me to pay for medical care.
And I always post this:
Frame Canada
Wendell Potter spent decades scaring Americans. About Canada. He worked for the health insurance industry, and he knew that if Americans understood Canadian-style health care, they might… like it. So he helped deploy an industry playbook for protecting the health insurance agency.
Definitely, people health it’s a big business, big pharma sell a remedy they don’t sell the cure. There isn’t a better business than big pharma and privatized health care.
Shaking my head and glad I’m not living in the US.
A country can decide how to treat people, how to shape the future. I get that nothing is perfect and everything is complicated. But I completely don’t get why the US doesn’t want to tackle some of the problems. Mainly school shootings, healthcare, social security and a democratic system by today’s standards. Maybe the latter is the answer why… And watching documentaries about the rural areas, it seems like the USA is mostly a third world country, except for in the cities.
We WANT too. Gun control, Medicare for all, and SS all have majority support for reform, across the parties. Broad support. Multiple studies have shown that public opinion has ZERO effect on legislation getting passed. Our oligarchy doesn’t give three shits to the wind about actual Americans. I’ve never met a group of people who, clearly, hate almost everyone they see. At the end of the balance sheet, actions speak louder, and the group most responsible for pain, suffering and loss of quality American years lived are the 1%. Their renumeration of revolutionary inequality is simultaneously equal amounts astonishing and disgusting.
If I wrote out a synopsis of the economy today and somehow got it back to my WW2/Korea vet grandfather he would’ve thought the USSR won the cold war.
His last words to me, i had asked him about WW2, and said I wanted to join the military like him - I liked my grandad better than my parents - and he told me “you don’t join the military. I fought so you and your siblings don’t have too” and then he made me promise that I’d go to college instead.
I did as he asked tho looking around now, I feel like no matter what I do, war is gonna find me.
Which if we’re being brutally honest, would be a return to the norm. Historically war touches everyone’s life. We’re blessed to live under the Pax Americana, but greed has rotted out the essence at its core and when the last leg falls…ever seen that movie Miracle Mile? You should watch it.
Thanks for the suggestion. Of course Netflix doesn’t have this 1988 movie… Let me see if I can pirate it… And thanks for teaching me the term “Pax Americana”.
The USA is somewhat far away from the wars it is or has been engaged with. I think the situation is a bit different than for other countries. That is also a thing I don’t quite get about the USA. Back in the cold war enormous sums of money were invested to fight the USSR. And nowadays Putin wants to revive that and the USA really struggles to represent their interests. I mean the USA isn’t tied as closely to eastern europe as for example a central european country where I live is. But there are some economic interests at play and the USA also benefits from a stable eastern europe and Russia/China not wreaking havoc in the world. This time it’s not even American soldiers who have to die in that battle. And the USA could advertise for their arms industry and make some profit, too. But all of that is overshadowed by national politics and it seems to cripple politics and working towards mid-term and long-term interests.
GOP steps into the chat.
The funny thing is that the US actually spends about twice as much on healthcare per capita as other developed countries. The reason that outcomes are so much worse there isn’t lack of money.
Yeah, it’s not a healthcare system. It’s a jobs system and wealth transfer scheme. Insurance companies have the government in their pocket and get employer money, government money, and employee money and transfer it to the already outrageously rich, and all that in between cost (salespeople, billing specialists, HR benefits specialists) is somebody’s paycheck.
That’s without consideration of actual fraud, which moves money from the government to the rich without even providing services at all, and is easier to hide in such an outrageously complicated and expensive system.
Our entire nation exists to funnel money to the rich. Whenever someone wonders, “why is x this way in the USA?” The answer is always it puts more money in a rich person’s pocket. The healthcare system is the emperor’s new clothes. Bask in it, if you can see how great it is.
It’s just THAT expensive. An ambulance is 2-3k minimum. Just for showing up. Going to an ER, talking to reception and then giving up and leaving? That’ll be a $1200 bill, to NOT see a doctor.
I don’t even know the line where I would voluntarily to go the hospital, knowing it’s sacrificing the next 10-20 years of all my extra income. Would it be when I put my thumb thru a grinding disc on my angle grinder, cutting it clean in two right thru the entire nail?
Naw, hell no. I would have cut my thumb tip off with a chef’s knife and cauterized It if I thought it wouldn’t heal on its own, rather than spend an app $15,000 I don’t have. Took about 10 weeks to heal.
I know how to fight off an abscess tooth without antibiotics. It takes about 8 days, of constant stabbing, arching your back pain. Ive broken knuckles just to have a different pain to focus on. No one should know how to do this in 2024. Abscess teeth kill. Kennewick Man, y’know, the Popsicle? That’s what killed him. My story isn’t unique, America is a third world country with iPhones. Don’t visit. I wish the world would boycott every American company until we learn how to have a civil society.
Oh wow, I didn’t know that. Google says $13.493 per person in 2022. And in Germany it’s a bit more than $7.000…
Also things like maternal mortality is WAY worse…
I mean the USA is bigger and maybe things don’t translate exactly from a somewhat densely populated central european country to the vast emptiness of rural Wyoming. I guess an hospital is also something that is subject to economy of scale… But even the northern european countries where doctors come in with helicopters all the time, don’t exceed the ~$7.000
It is really off for the USA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
Life expectancy is going down cuz suicide rates are shooting up. Like suburban boys with shopping malls, their classrooms and/or heroin/fent
Fuuuuck. Nailed it, I’m fucking kiiiiiiiiilling it today. Ziiiing!
Hmmh, but that’s only the thing on top. Contrary to other countries, life expectancy seems to be actually going down since 2014… But there is already something seriously wrong since ~1980…
Reagan, Thatcher
And seems it never has gotten better than that, regarding this apect. Even worse 😮💨
Yeah, no, I don’t think about you.
Sounds like a joke.
Here: you hurt you go hospital. You wait to get fix
what do you think when you read stories like these
Honestly they are so fucking sad I try to avoid reading them. Another example is this one: She Was Denied an Abortion After Roe Fell. This Is a Year in Her Family’s Life.
The monsters have been trying to do the same things in Europe though, UK has underfunded the NHS and healthcare in Germany is in deliberate decline too.
First thought is that you need to do that research aa soon as you move to the new house, change your insurance or job.
Second is obvious, strange county you have over there. But I guess most of the people are satisfied with that, as with paying for school.
i don’t think it’s reasonable to say “most of the people are happy with that”. Most people in the US are definitely NOT happy with how the medical industry or insurance works. But i do think it’s fair to say that most people don’t understand that voting for the guy that says they will prevent higher taxes is also working to keep the insurance system in place OR they would rather have lower taxes than better insurance (and are too dumb to realize that would be a net gain) OR they don’t vote at all.
When you don’t have viable choices, that is most certainly NOT ‘being satisfied with that’.
Why does your government not want a healthy work force? Healthy workers are more productive. Even with the right wing focus of your entire government, having healthy workers just feels like a no brainer.
Also a worker that doesn’t have to waste time on bureaucracy and healthcare considerations has more time to be productive.
Additionally the private insurance market means the cost of hiring someone is dramatically higher. Medicare for all would probably make the vast majority of companies more profitable. It’s such a no brainer for everyone outside the healthcare industry.
Not only that but say I run a bakery, why should I have to devote a crazy amount of time learning medical insurance speak? That’s time that I should be spending thinking of new things I can sell. That’s the whole point behind specialization. I don’t give two-girls-one-cup shits about the ins and outs of ANY insurance policy. I buy what I need and I need it to work when I need it. My interests begins and ends there. and that’s a REASONABLE position to take.
Why are we allowing ourselves to be extorted by medical insurance muckbangs?
The whole industry deserves doxxing and relentless public shaming. I’m not advocating violence. Like protesting outside assistant mid-managers houses. If identities got stolen and credit scores ruined…well, I’m not condoning it but I’m not gonna lose sleep over it either. Make the whole industry undesirable to work in.
I think my company’s pays about $600 a month for my insurance and I pay about $150 for premiums. It’s insane.
It’s because this system works well for wealthy people. And most of the idiots who like this system are either wealthy, or idiots with “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” syndrome.
Those in power (Trump, then Biden) specifically ran campaigns against radical changes to this system. Many of us tried to drum up support for Bernie four years ago… Alas, it failed.
Here is my perspective on the answer to your question:
Our government is not functional. It is not that it doesn’t “want” a healthy work force, but that it isn’t capable of setting any sort of a policy.
The last time the US made any meaningful change in healthcare policy was under Obama. My impression of what happened is that there was a brief (2 yr) moment when the Presidency, House, and Senate were all controlled by the same party. The Democrats passed “health reform” which was basically the Republican health care reform package from 4 years earlier.
In the 13 years since then, the only Republican position on health care has been that Obama’s “ACA” law is “bad”. There is literally no suggestion of what else would be better. (I’m not counting the anti-abortion laws as “health care” – they are seen here as a moral issue, not a health care one.) The Democrats’ position has been a mix of “we shouldn’t let the Republicans take us back to something WORSE!” and “the whole system is broken and needs to be replaced”.
We have two problems. First, our government is structured so that it cannot easily accomplish anything, at least without cooperation between the two opposed parties. Secondly, one of the two parties is insane and wants to destroy the government (and has enough electoral support to win almost half the time).
I can’t believe governments and companies put such a “price” on people’s health. I must say the news about the US Health System is also echoed by all the other US companies I have dealt with in my professional capacity. Profits before people and sales before outcomes.
I/We avoid using them when we can…
That story is horrific, I can’t imagine living like that.
When I have a medical emergency (or even if it’s just a possibility) then I go straight to the ER. I might have a small administration cost to pay, but it’s easy enough to manage that I don’t have to give it a second thought.
My job isn’t linked to my healthcare, that sounds like insane leverage.
We moved from America to see Asia years ago. We were just talking last week about how racist we still catch ourselves being. We have a sick relative at home who we talked about moving here. They’d be close to us so we could help. And healthcare here is cheap/free often and pretty good.
But there’s part of me that just thinks American = superior. No matter how long I live here I’m not sure it will ever go away. It’s been psychopathically programmed into me. “Yeah it’s expensive, but at least you’re getting a good doctor”. (I’ve had awful and great doctors in both countries) It’s infuriating to realize.
Good on you for realising though. I mean from an outsiders perspective America tends to push the exceptionalism narrative pretty hard, live there long enough and it’ll get into you sooner or later.
You were conditioned, you’re not being racist. It would be racist if, say, you lived in the US and had an Asian doctor and demanded a white one.
Also:
it’s been psychopathically programmed into me
This really made me laugh. It’s hard to describe what I’m imagining, but, remember in the first matrix where they “download” information via needle in the back of the head? And you know how a video game character looks when the game is glitching? Like, one character is just freaking out, all of their animations happening at once? Kinda like two cartoon characters fighting in a cloud of smoke and limbs and heads just flying out random places? Well, I imagined a mixture of those two (three?) things. And dammit if I didn’t get a hearty chuckle out of it.
When I need medical care, I go to the doctor, it is not a question about if I can afford it, I just go.
Back in 2019 I got sick like hell with mycoplasma, I was out of work for a month and a half, and even stayed two nights in hospital.
I never worried about my job, just focused on getting better.
At the end you do still have to pay here in Sweden, but in total, several doctors vists, two nights in hospital, antibiotics, food in hopsital and the medicine from the pharmacy cost me about the equivalent of 150USD.
So while not 100% free to me, I did not even once think about the cost.
To put that in perspective I have a nonemergency going on right now. I need to replace my CPAP. To do so I need a new prescription for one. In order to do that I need to go to my primary doctor to get a referral to a sleep specialist. That appointment cost me $250. The sleep specialist basically told me yup I need a CPAP just like the past 7 years. That cost me $370. So now I’ve paid $620 in order to pay $800-$1000 for a new CPAP.
