“But tires”
Ban all vehicles over 5000lbs to start without a specialized license and extremely heavy fees to have them. EVs are dropping in weight daily, ICE vehicles have been increasing in weight to dodge policies. One is a means to an end, the other is a means to profit.
Profit for few vs humanity’s existance… which should we choose?
Most people don’t think of that. Out of sight, out of mind. Our minds are better adapted to react to immediate, visceral threats (such as a garage full of exhaust that can be smelled, maybe seen). We need education to be able to understand threats that are diffuse over a large area or take long periods of time to manifest. Even with education, most won’t react as strongly to a threat which has a high chance of reducing our lifespan by five to ten years, as we will to a threat which has a small chance of killing us immediately.
If it is common knowledge that shutting a garage door with a running ICE vehicle inside will kill you, why do you think so many people think 1 billion ICE vehicles aren’t bad in the atmosphere?
The problem with having a running ICE vehicle in an enclosed space is that you reduce the oxygen levels in that space and your vehicle then starts rapidly dumping carbon monoxide out the tailpipe, which is dangerous to humans at much lower levels than carbon dioxide exposure.
This isn’t related to the issue we have with carbon dioxide emissions producing global warming.
We aren’t going to reduce global oxygen levels far enough that vehicles dumping carbon monoxide out their tailpipes and asphyxiating people becomes an issue.
Yes, the carbon monoxide sits in the atmosphere… Then becomes carbon dioxide after a few months, which is racking up and killing the majority of life on earth.
The garage is just step 1 of the process, yes.
What’s a “butt tire”?
Tires are a big pollutant (from wearing them down) and anti-EV people often day EVs weigh More, thus wear tires more, cancelling out any environmental benefits.
A bit forced and hogwash IMO.
Tire wear is a huge cause of particle pollution, but the wear depends on the driver right foot.
One of the main reasons people use to say EVs are bad is that they currently weigh more than ICE vehicles. (Slowly being fixed transitioning to solid state batteries and finding ways to safely minimize weight). The extra weight means tires would wear out faster and tires put plastics into the environment.
Putting weight restrictions on vehicles would curb this and accelerate people transitioning to lighter vehicles.
What they think is no mystery - they think the atmosphere and ecosystem are vast enough to absorb it. As “proof” they’ll point out things like smog in Victorian London being much worse than modern Los Angeles. They can’t produce any numbers or science but they find these mental images convincing enough.
A lot of it has to do with propaganda, both the oil and car industry have successfully convinced people that they need petroleum and a car
My life has convinced me I need a car. I don’t necessarily need petroleum - I’m willing to shop electric but the price needs to be good too.
My city’s sporadic adoption of partial suddenly-ending bike lanes that top out at like 3 feet wide, and urban sprawl that puts any necessities at 4+ miles away, have convinced me I need a car. :(
I think the oil and car industries convinced city planning and zoning officials that the happiest city is one with heavy idling truck traffic jams and winding suburban labyrinths on the fringes.
People struggle to think on a global scale and if you don’t understand how the atmosphere insulates, “that’s inside and this is outside” is a convincing enough argument for a lot of folk. Throw on the fact that some of the most powerful institutions in the world have very strong interests in keeping ICEs going and it’s pretty easy to see why so many people still believe those myths
To add onto this. I did a rough estimate (hopefully I did it correctly) and assuming one billion ice vehicles as OP stated, if you scattered them evenly across the surface of the earth there would be about 25 miles separating each car. While I believe ice cars are quite damaging, it’s not hard to think it would be okay with that in mind.
Surely we won’t wind up with another oil tycoon leading the environmental protection agencies… Oh wait, they hired someone who denied climate change who accepted more than 300 million dollars in donations from the oil companies to get his positions. Surely trustworthy when it comes to his stance on oil.
You also die from staying inside a single room for too long
Ban rooms!
But doors being closed is what effectively triggers death, right ? shouldn’t we ban doors ?
I had a friend who went down the right wing rabbit hole and he said that the earth is so big we can’t affect the environment that way.
Blew my mind. Trump supporter now as well.
There’s actually a lot of people for whom this type of thinking is ingrained.
I live a somewhat isolated region in Australia and the sea food here is plentiful. We also rigidly apply very strict laws about the type, size, and number of fish you can kill.
I’ve seen first hand the impact over-fishing can have, with some areas now completely devoid of varieties which were prevalent a few decades ago.
It just doesn’t compute to people who are not from this area. They see the laws as a draconian revenue raising measure. There’s no concept that just a few people can decimate a population.
That’s the paradox… When shit works well, ignorant people think we don’t need the shit that makes everything work well anymore.
Usually people like this start with the conclusion, and then search only for things that reinforce that (and ignore anything that conflicts). So, chances are, he wanted to believe that for whatever reason, so he sought reinforcement for that stupid idea. And found it.
This is a bad argument. Your conclusion happens to be factual, but it doesn’t follow from the premises.
Being in an enclosed space with an internal combustion engine will kill you because of the CO buildup, and no, that doesn’t happen in the open air. CO does oxidise to CO2 eventually, so it doesn’t just keep building up in the atmosphere.
The main harm caused by burning fossil fuels is the CO2, which is wreaking havoc on the climate and will kill billions - but not by poisoning them.
Why would it not be considered poisining? It is a substance that is effectively killing people.
Yeah the enclosed space thing is about carbon monoxide though. Just find it to be easier for people to understand when people believe the earth is thriving because “there are more people now than ever.” Not caring that everything is dying around us.
No, that’s not poisoning.
If you get killed by a tsunami, that’s not water poisoning for fuck’s sake.
Fits the definition of poisoning.
Medical dictionary: Definition Poisoning occurs when any substance interferes with normal body functions after it is swallowed, inhaled, injected, or absorbed.
So if you drown, it would be, if you get crushed, I would say it doesn’t fall into poison
Good to know we’re not operating in reality. Don’t feed the trolls, people.
You’re living in a false reality apparently my friend. That’s just the definition of a word. Maybe find a different term.
Diogenes and his
chickenman take great offense at your definition of “poison”.Yeah, most here would hate that Dickens used the term to mean distrub a function as well. To poisons ones sleep didn’t mean to kill him, just to do something that interferes with an ongoing task. It’s just a word. I didn’t define it 🤷
The dictionary doesn’t define words. Words are defined by authors and audiences. Your audience has rejected this particular definition of the word. Continue to use it at your peril.
So you’re saying it has been poisoned… Sorry, I had to. Hope your having a good day.
Jesus Christ, the mental gymnastics and goal post moving.
Drowning is not water poisoning, and if you can’t figure out why, that’s no one’s problem but your own.
Actually going to delete this. To pointed of a question I believe. Just annoyed by people not giving a shit about our grandchildren
Odd for your username, but do what you believe is right.
What do you think I should do.
a. Delete
b. Let it stay
c. Party for 2025
d. Dance around a bit to work out my core, one could always use a bit more core strength
Gotta get those abs, baby!
I just want to get to the point where I can say 'i work out" like this song haha
D while C and then B
If you wind up with a video in your dm’s it’s not my fault, honestly… because I haven’t a clue how to upload a video. Haha
b then d and c
So now I must inquire what a Mac is… five could be troublesome or diabetes if they have the Mc Mac trope
e. Tell me what an ICE vehicle is
Well ice ice baby much like drill baby drill refers to vehicles running off fossil fuels, mainly known to be gasoline refined from crude oil
Hopefully my joke didn’t cause confusion.
Basically. Start a gas powered car in closed area… You will die before morning, electric, you will be confused why there was no exhaust port because we have been programmed for so long that cars emit acceptable loss
Internal combustion engine.
Ooh ok. Thanks.
I’m not here to diss EVs or praise ICE vehicles, but I want to simply directly answer your question. There’s one simple mantra that is applicable to a lot of things in life…the dose makes the poison. Not odd to see people extrapolate to that your scenario.
Please explain what you mean if you don’t mind are you saying that poison is better than poison or what?
And no I’m not taking undiluted. We can have a chat. Let’s have 1 member in an EV in a garage and another in a ICE vehicl in a garage… hold a 1 week debate. No one can leave the garage.,. Who wins? I say it’s the EV side in a matter of a day, because their battery is still playing rock music while the ICE member rocked to death of their own poison hours before.
2 days later… Our EV person is going to need some water.
They’re saying a 300sqft garage is going to fill up with carbon monoxide long before the planet does because the volume of space is drastically different. It’s why they tell you to spray paint in well ventilated areas versus huffing it out of a bag.
it’s not that people think cars aren’t contributing, it’s that things like factories are so much of a bigger deal that the cars won’t make a difference.
So would you agree no car sold beyond 2030 in the U.S. should weight over 5 thousand pounds or be taxed and registered (another form of tax) at a high rate the pushes users towards lighter emissions?
I would not support weight limits or size limits, simply because per-passenger mileage increases as vehicle occupancy increases. Per-ton mileage increases in cargo vehicles as load increases.
I would not support the idea that only a transit authority can have a bus.
That being said, I do support reducing emissions by transitioning to EV infrastructure, and suppressing fossil fuels in the ground transportation industry.
With passangers it wouldn’t matter for weight. The car would register, and people would ride. That’s all that would matter. We can make an 8 person car under that weight limit with great safety ratings. We just were driving away from those requirements.
How about a 15-passenger van? Can you make a 15-passenger van under 5000lbs?
That van will be around 7200lbs minimum, but will have higher passenger-mile economy than anything under 5000lbs. Why are we banning the more efficient vehicle?
Again, I reject the arbitrary restrictions on vehicle size and weight.
Instead, we push EV infrastructure.
We can mandate manufacturers produce an EV equivalent (with minimum 100 mile range) for every gasoline vehicle they offer. We can mandate the 100-mile EV variant has the same (or lower) price as the lowest-priced ICE equivalent. If they want to jack up the price of EVs, they have to either increase the range, or drop the ICE equivalent.
We can require gas stations to install and maintain one EV charging point for every gasoline or diesel pump on site.
We can restore and expand government rebates for EV purchases, charging point installation, renewable energy generation and storage, etc.
No that van would be classified as commercial or public access. But it should be taxes to no hell of it was want company owned. Companies will have to jump through exprndict traits as well.
If you go that route, I’ll setup shop in a car dealership, helping people file the paperwork needed to register an LLC and justify their car purchase.
Vehicle size and weight is a red herring. It’s a distraction from EV adoption, which is far more important to reducing emissions. Any political capital we might spend on limiting vehicle sizes would achieve greater results on promoting EV adoption. I’d rather see the industry produce a giant EV truck called “The Compensator 9000” than to put arbitrary restrictions on size and weight.
The reason people drive so far to work… Is because of cars. We are compensating for them simply by having them around. The compensator 9000 just means further distances to work, grocery stores, etc. wider roads, more gaps between businesses and continuous outward growth while creating an environment where it makes it more and more impossible to simply walk anywhere…
I want to get a sandwich, shouldn’t be situation that requires we drive 15 miles. Granted yes we reduced the number of times we do it by stashing ingredients in the fridge, but the point still stands.
A lot of people dread having to walk to the mailbox… And dread having to mow the lawn between them and the mailbox. The number of people paying someone else to mow the lawn between there front door and the mailbox is staggering. Yet that is step on of them going on a trip.
Are they? Pretty sure transportation is a big part of CO2 emissions.
they do produce a lot of CO2, but other things produce so much more (and can be fixed without the cost being passed entirely onto regular people who can’t afford the car they already have) that cars are a non-issue. yes the number is big, but other numbers like factories are bigger by so much that the cars’ number is actually really small in comparison. it isn’t your fault, it is the fault of things like factories. you are being manipulated by rich people who don’t want to spend an extra 13 cents per item to save the planet, so they convince you to focus on your car instead of their factories.
Okay here’s the data on it. Factories are definitely guilty as fuck, but cars aren’t guilt-free, which is why many parts of the world need to get on with public transport. I can focus on more than one thing, including how car transportation is definitely not a non-problem.
It’s not the people don’t think cars are bad for the environment. It’s that people consider the nebulous cost to be worth the short-term benefit of actually being able to get places.
While I understand what I think your saying and don’t want to be to assumptioius, can you please explain how cars have a 'shorr term" benefit when we are looking at 60% annual possibilities of 10 month droughts annually. That’s the end of crops outdoors, likely the end of life outdoors
If you can’t drive to work, you won’t earn any money and you’ll die.
Chosing a safer way to get there is the point. If we got rid of all the traffic lights you’ll get to work and not die. More people would die on the way to work, but that’s the same concept is it not? Right now we have an “acceptable” death rate from car accidents that’s Increasing since about 2008ish. One of the reasons why is that we decided to make vehicles taller and larger for no reason other than to avoid regulations that were set on vehicles for environmental safety.
Basically we said “cars should have higher mileage to minimize damage to the environment” and someone said… well that’s unreasonable for larger vehicles, and then companies started making larger vehicles to fall into a category that would omit them from the higher mpg requirements. Also a 4" higher grill is associated over 20% increase on killing pedestrians.Example: A 4 door Jeep Cherokee in 1994 was plenty big enough to carry a family of 4 and a load of groceries in the back.
1994 Dimensions: Length: 165.3" Width 70.5" Height: 63.2’ Weight: 3,357 pounds
2024 Dimensions: Length: 193.5" Width: 77.5" Height 70.8". Weight: 4,238 pounds
A more efficient engine would fit in the old Jeep… yet it is now more than 2 foot longer. More than half a foot wider and half a foot taller.
So now you need wider roads to fit wider lanes, and space houses out further to fit these cars as they build new areas. Larger parking lots, meaning more room between businesses, making it all inaccessible more and more, and the only reasonable way to get anywhere is by getting in a car.
I think
$1000$600 flat one time is definitely worth being able to get places via escooter. No gas, no insurance, no loans or leases (with the exception of Unagi scooters which are like $80 a month). Oh and riding boosts coordination while also not trapping you in a stressful metal box. One costs way less, is better for your physical and mental health, is easy to park in crowded places, but everyone prefers the opposite lolIf I could ride one without risking my life even more than I already do in a car, I’d love to get to work and back on one of those. But there are no bike paths, sidewalks, or any other scooter friendly options for me.
If you can ride while protected from the local traffic, absolutely consider this option!
Also, this only works in places with mild winters, or in the summer. Those scooters don’t work great in the snow.
blankly stares in commuting to an amazon warehouse in a snowy ass mario kart hellscape on a scooter
It really depends on the brand. Same with bikes.
The snow absolutely pelting my face is one of the best things I’ve ever experienced
Because those have nothing to do with each other. You can also drown in your bathtub. That doesn’t mean water falling from the sky is an instant drowning. Quantity, method of exposure and context matter a lot when gauging how dangerous something can be.
ICE exhaust is poisonous, it’s significantly less poisonous when diluted by a large chunk of atmosphere. How much so isn’t a simple question, and it becomes much harder for the average person when it’s health effects are delayed for years to decades and those effects often have comorbidities with other risky behavior.
This is exactly why education is important, these things aren’t actually that apparent after we cleaned up some of the more obvious consequences from the start of the industrial revolution.
In theory, concentration and expose time could mean that whatever is hurting you in an enclosed garage isn’t a problem outside. Which is some what true. Carbon monoxide bonding to the hemoglobin in your blood cells is what kills you in the first scenario. The CO2 levels take a lot longer to rise to dangerous levels and there’s plenty of warning to leave the area before fixation becomes an issue and it’s still not the same issue as climate change.
In reality, it’s propaganda. But if you want to argue with people, don’t use the enclosed space as an example. Batteries can also offgas and quite frankly, I wouldn’t store some of those cheaper EVs in a garage or at least, an attached garage.
