- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
GenAI tools ‘could not exist’ if firms are made to pay copyright::undefined
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Then they shouldn’t exist.
Too late
Slaves “could not exist” if firms are made to pay wages.
writing software that does things for us is the only purpose of computers. LLMs are far from “true” AI but still they are useful for a bunch of tasks.
ban their use in creative works, of course nobody wants to read a book written by an AI. but let me have a LLM to use as a tool.
I never said anything about ban it, I was just making a joke about that title.
Huh. You’d think in a situation where copyright is threatened by a lack of AI regulation, Disney would be all over this. Oh wait. They’re trying to use generative AI to make movies cheaper. Nevermind.
I’d be fine with this argument if these generative tools were only being used by non-profits. But they aren’t.
So I think there has to be some compromise here. Some type of licensing fee should be paid by these generative AI tools.
You’re basically arguing for making any free use of them illegal, thereby giving a monopoly to the richest and most powerful capitalists.
Humans won’t be able to compete, and you won’t be able to use the means of generation either.
I’m arguing for free commercial use being illegal, absolutely.
And that fee should scale based on who is using it for commercial purposes. Microsoft and Google should be paying far, far out the ass for their data.
And who does that serve?
Do you mean the whole thing or something specific like free commercial use being illegal?
I think the answer to both are the people who created the art, text, etc that these generative AI tools are going to make mostly obsolete.
Open source or open use AI will be practically illegal. Research will be practically impossible. It will be exclusively controlled by super rich and powerful corporations.
It won’t benefit the creators. It will only benefit those with the most capital that can buy up the training data needed and then can set the market so they make almost all of the money. For example you’d need to buy all the user content from reddit, facebook and twitter to train an AI. That will cost many millions because it’s a precious commodity (and only they own it). So only a few will control the “means of generation” and they will (have to) use it to make profit for themselves. This will make it practically illegal to make a free or an independent AI because you don’t have access to training data. This sets the rules and will lead to incredibly bad outcomes. For example anti-consumerist thinking or dissent could be suppressed, or other more subtle biases. Anything that reduces profit from advertising or threatens the shareholders. And they can manipulate the training data behind closed doors.
But that is how it’s going to go and it’s going to make the effects of AI generation on our civilization extra bad. We are so fucked :(
The copyrighted material has no business being used for AI training anyways. Like why train AI to write books or make art when you could feed it documentation and teach it data entry instead like stuff that would actually work well for this and wouldn’t require copyrighted works.
Scanning documents, recognizing text and populating a form is already a feature for document scanning. It’s not labeled as ai, because it’s already commercially viable.
Sounds like a win to me
Ooooh no! We might, like, get to keep our jobs and homes.
If they can’t afford a thing they want, that’s too bad.
The fact that their dream-AI ‘cant exist’ without stealing from everyone there is only one message to bounce back there from the rest of us;
‘good’
How about we drop copyright terms to 30 years?
10… And that may be too long.
I’m just trying to think about how refined AI would be if it could only use public domain data.
ChatGPT channels Jane Austin and Shakespeare.
That’s not really how it would work.
If you want that outcome, it’s better to train on as massive a data set as possible initially (which does regress towards the mean but also manages to pick up remarkable capabilities and relationships around abstract concepts), and then use fine tuning to bias it back towards an exceptional result.
If you only trained it on those works, it would suck at pretty much everything except specifically completing those specific works with those specific characters. It wouldn’t model what the concerns of a prince in general were, but instead model that a prince either wants to murder his mother (Macbeth) or fuck her (Oedipus).
That’s how it should be, but public domain has been crippled by Disney and co.
Stop threatening me with a good time!
I do love how AI has gotten Corporate Giants to start attacking the Copyright System they’ve used to beat down the little man for generations
Maybe because it’s not the same corporations? We might be seeing a giant powershift from IP hoarders to makers.
Makers use the copyright system to their advantage as well though. If I write code and place it on github, the only thing stopping a mega corp stealing it is the copyright I hold.
Abolishing copyright is not a win.
Weakening copyright is a win
Science and the arts existed just fine without Intellectual Property. Abolishing copyright would be a huge win for society as a whole and a minor loss to corporations.
it definitely is, tho.
of course they could steal your code, but you could steal theirs. you could steal their software. you could steal their paywalled articles. you could still all those things that are affected by artificial scarcity. They have much more to loose if copyright gets abolished.
In an ideal world, I’d make copyright to be 5 years for individuals and abolished for corporations. But the world is far from ideal and individuals have much to win if copyright gets abolished as a whole.
Let’s not kid ourselves that the copyright is stopping mega corporations from stealing your github code.
What’s stopping them from hiring an engineer that basically rewrites your code? No one would ever know.
Copyleft enforcement is laughable at best and that’s when it comes to direct library use without modifications and there’s basically no history of prosecution or penalties for partial code copying (nor that there should be imo) that’s even when 1:1 code has been found!
I feel like copyright has been doing very little in modern age and have yet to see any science that contradicts my opinion here. Most copyright holders (like high 90%) are mega corporations like ghetty images that hardly contribute back to the society.
Fine. Shut them down.
And what about the open source models? Or the AI companies in countries that have more lax copyright laws? (Japan for example)
This technology exists now. We can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Copyright came out of the printing press, which allowed cheap copies to be made. Now a new technology has emerged so we likely need a new set of rules to replace the role that copyright performed, which was incentivizing artistic creation
Simple – you can’t charge for AI generation
Right? Like…I don’t give a shit. That’s not a threat or a fact that bothers me at all. They are only a tool for amassing more power and money. So what the fuck do I care.
We are about to witness an incredibly power grab. They will be claiming practically the entirety of human intellectual works for example also for contributions made by billions of users on social media. Basically they will monopolize the entire power of GenAI for themselves.
This wil practically make free use of that power illegal. Generative AI will eliminate more and more jobs in the coming decades while we won’t be allowed to use it at all.
Sounds good.
