Poll released Wednesday shows divisions by age and political lines, with 35% overall saying campaign against Palestinians is genocide
  • S_204@lemm.ee
    0·
    10 months ago

    2/3rds of Americans aren’t fucking morons based on this reporting. Still a scary number of idiots.

      • sailingbythelee@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        The bar for plausibility is very low, and rightly so, because the intention is to intervene early and protect civilians. The court will most likely issue an order to stop the fighting for humanitarian reasons. However, it will probably take a couple of years before they make a determination regarding the allegations of genocide.

        • neptune@dmv.socialEnglish
          0·
          10 months ago

          Had to re read this a few times. Civilians are dying. The UN should stop it on humanitarian grounds. But hey, it’s the people calling it a genocide that need to be focused on. 🤔

        • Oliofizodos@feddit.de
          0·
          10 months ago

          I know this is a troll but just to be clear the role of the ICJ is literally to determine whether Israel’s alleged actions are capable of being covered by the Genocide Convention. Today they decided that this is indeed the case and this is legally binding.

          • sailingbythelee@lemmy.world
            0·
            10 months ago

            Calling someone names because they disagree with you isn’t helpful to the conversation, if that is indeed why you are here.

  • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
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    10 months ago

    Genocide denial is sadly not a new phenomenon. Everyone wants to believe in a world where we’ve moved past that, but of course we haven’t. Everyone wants to think that something can be used as “justification” for crimes against humanity, that a precipitating event can be used to justify whatever comes after.

    Hamas soldiers committed horrific atrocities on the October 7th 2023 attack. Hamas is composed mostly of Palestinian men. Therefore every Palestinian is responsible, every Palestinian is a member of Hamas, and any number of casualties is appropriate. Shooting children in the west bank is appropriate. Calling Palestinians animals, and boasting loudly and frequently that you intend to “raze gaza” and “Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants.” are appropriate things to do.

    It’s the same thing that happens every time. While the state committing genocide argues with the world about whether they’re allowed to do what they’re doing, they continue those actions and even escalate them. I have genuinely no faith whatsoever that Israel will truly be held accountable for their crimes against humanity.

  • Rapidcreek@lemmy.world
    0·
    10 months ago

    • 67% said a ceasefire should only happen if the hostages are released and Hamas is removed from power

    • 83% said October 7 was a terror attack, including 74% of those aged 18-24

    • 80% said they support Israel over Hamas, including 57% of those aged 18-24

    • 69% said Israel was trying to avoid civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip and 66% said Israel was just trying to defend itself

    • 74% said Hamas’s attack was genocidal

    https://harvardharrispoll.com/

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      10 months ago

      this is depressing.

      I’m not going to comment on whether or not Hamas’ attack was genocidal, because even if they meant it to be, I just don’t they have the capability. but like… Israel is bombing fucking hospitals and refugee camps inside the strip. That’s not how you go about “avoiding civilian casualties”.

      the only side worth supporting here are the civilians caught in the middle.

  • bedrooms@kbin.social
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    10 months ago

    Imagine you, your friends and your family get killed and washed away from your land, and 2/3 of US people don’t believe it’s genocide.

    • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
      0·
      10 months ago

      Well, did my family join Hamas and then force me to stay to die as a martyr inside a building that Israel just told us they were going to bomb?

      I think I’d be fine with the US not calling that genocide. If they did I hope they’d at least blame the actually responsible party.

    • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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      10 months ago

      Murdering people at a music festival and taking hostages might have an effect on public perception.

      • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Two wrongs don’t make a right. A county based on abrahamic religion should know that. It just proves that they don’t actually believe in their own religion and only hide behind it whenever it’s convenient for them, like saying anybody who disagrees with them supports Hamas.

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
          0·
          10 months ago

          Two wrongs don’t make a right

          Absolutely agree.

          A county based on abrahamic religion should know that

          Dude, have you seen all the shit countries based on abrahamic religions have done through out the history?

          ike saying anybody who disagrees with them supports Hamas.

          And the other side says that anyone disagreeing with them is a genocidal nazi. I would say the whole discussion at this point is rather heated and fucked up.

        • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          10 months ago

          Which Abrahamic religion are you referring to?

          If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him, fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him. Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, and whoever kills a person shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:19-21)

          • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
            0·
            10 months ago

            What happens if you take both eyes? And the eyes of their family and their neighbors and the people didn’t the street? Is that allowed or?

            • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
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              10 months ago

              What happens if every single firstborn Egyptian son is killed overnight? Is that evil?

              Religions don’t always give the answers you might expect.

      • qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee
        0·
        10 months ago

        The problem is, before they wemt on that murdering spree, the western world pretty much ignored their plight, or maybe tutted when they chucked a rocket or two over the border. But any kind of “proper” political solution was flatly ignored. It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I umderstand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude. And look, they actually have a tonne of eyeballs and attention on their shitty situation (and shitty leaders), so maybe something will come of this. Palestinians are paying an exorbitantly heavy price for it, though.

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
          0·
          10 months ago

          Sure, but again - if you murder people at a music festival and take hostages, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that terrorists won that one.

          • ???@lemmy.world
            0·
            10 months ago

            Sure, but again, if you indiscriminately kill innocent people in Gaza and destroy the very last university, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

            • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
              0·
              10 months ago

              Absolutely. Not sure why you would think I don’t understand the hatred Israel is getting.

              The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

              Not sure what Israel won, despite making sure there will be another generation of Palestinian freedom fighters with rather questionable methods.

              • ???@lemmy.world
                0·
                10 months ago

                I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.

                I agree, Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.

    • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know. Also, only1/3 of Americans saying this is a genocide isn’t great, but it does represent a huge shift in opinion in a short time. Both our political parties support Israel, our news media doesn’t cover Palestinians very sympathetically, and our education system tells a very favorable version of Israel’s founding (most Americans don’t even learn about the Nakba). I don’t think criticism of Israel has ever been this mainstream (at least in my lifetime).

      • bedrooms@kbin.social
        0·
        10 months ago

        Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know

        That means

        1. 1/3 believe it’s genocide
        2. 1/3 believe it’s not
        3. 2/3 do not believe it’s genocide
  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
    0·
    10 months ago

    Israel is blocking aid organisations from buying food, water and medicine in israel and transporting it through the Ker Shalom crossing. Forcing everything through the extremely slow Egypt crossing which they are actively holding up. If they wanted to prevent weapon smuggle then they should love it going through Ker Shalom

    I cannot think of a single possible explanation other than israel trying to starve Gazans and commit genocide. How are Americans this brainwashed?

    • myrdinn@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Propaganda. An abysmal education system. Failing social structures. Corrupt media. Networks of the wealthy using their influence to push society in the direction they desire.

    • Kbobabob@lemmy.world
      0·
      10 months ago

      How are Americans this brainwashed?

      This isn’t limited to the US. What are Israeli citizens doing? Personally i think the US should just stay the fuck out of it and take back whatever stuff we can that we gave them. Cut off support and actively denounce, but they won’t.

      • Zevlen@lemmy.world
        0·
        10 months ago

        Fuck Israel, Fuck China, Fuck Russia, ETC

        Plus our own country (US) really needs a Full/Real Democracy 😔🙏 😐 So fuck us too for keeping the middle class poor and the poor class ultra poor

        Amen

      • Zevlen@lemmy.world
        0·
        10 months ago

        Britain HAD a huge hand in giving European Jews power in Palestine to begin with… Once the zionists (European Jewish) took that power they really went to town terrorizing Palestinian land and taking most of it away from Palestinians. FACT; Palestine started with about only 10 % of people/ population being Jewish.

        Israel needs to pay for their crimes / in money / reparations and giving back MOST of the land of Palestine back to the Palestinians.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
          0·
          10 months ago

          Don’t call Zionists “Jews”.

          Zionists are an extremist death cult. Calling Zionists “Jews” is very anti-semitic.

          I agree with the rest of your comment though.

  • tweeks@feddit.nl
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    10 months ago

    As I understand the term genocide, that seems not to exactly be what is happening here. Although one could say it certainly rhymes with it.

    • adriaan@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      100% agree that we should use the term with caution and precision. That said, Israel is committing a genocide.

      • breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca
        0·
        10 months ago

        1500-2000 is fine. They use random sampling and weighting. A larger sample size would decrease the margin of error but wouldn’t significantly alter the results. A margin of error of +/-3.1% is fine for this kind of snapshot of public opinion.

      • Poggervania@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        Considering we have a population of 331,464,948, I would say it’s not lol

        I personally think we’re committing genocide, but I would imagine a sample size that is under 1% of the US population is small

        • Deceptichum@kbin.social
          0·
          10 months ago

          A sample size of 1,659 out of a population size of 334,914,895, with a population proportion of 50% and confidence level of 95% gives an error margin of 2.41%.

          1,659 is a fine sample size.

            • sincle354@kbin.social
              0·
              10 months ago

              If there’s anything I would not fault somebody about, it’s misunderstanding sampling in a statistical sense. Just about the biggest case of “plug into formula and pray” of all of my classes I took. I’m looking back and it’s just Greek letters to me now…

              • FaceDeer@kbin.social
                0·
                10 months ago

                Oh yes, it’s not meant as a slight. It’s just something that humans need to be aware of. Just like how we need a forklift to move a one-ton object, we need to run calculations and trust the math when doing statistics.