Alan Miller shook and trembled on gurney after becoming second person to be executed by controversial technique
Alabama has carried out the second execution in the US using the controversial method of nitrogen gas, an experimental technique for humans that veterinarians have deemed unacceptable in the US and Europe for the euthanasia of most animals.
Alan Eugene Miller, 59, was pronounced dead on Thursday evening at a south Alabama prison. The lethal method involves being strapped to a gurney, where a respirator mask is applied to the face and pure nitrogen piped in. The resulting oxygen deprivation will cause death by asphyxia.
Miller shook and trembled on the gurney for about two minutes with his body at times pulling against the restraints, followed by about six minutes of gasping breathing, according to the Associated Press.
Miller’s death is the latest in an extraordinary week in the US in which five condemned men in five states are set to be killed over six days. Three prisoners have already been executed – on Friday South Carolina killed Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah in its first execution in 13 years, then on Tuesday Texas killed Travis Mullis and Missouri put to death Marcellus Williams.
If we’re going to kill people, which we shouldn’t, why not be humane about it and use a firing squad?
Because that disturbs the comfort of a complacent society. Nothing about the US judicial and prison system is humane.
meanwhile Japan having hanging as their only method for death penalty
There is no humane way, they all fuck up. Most people who actually support the death penalty want recipients to suffer.
Agreed, but firing squad seems to be the closest to humane.
The executed died quickly, and the executors don’t know for certain that they had a bullet.
I think they found extreme PTSD in the executioners that used that method.
You don’t know if you killed them or not, a lot of times. That will gnaw at people who aren’t okay with killing, especially in such a cold and sterile way.
Plus, it isn’t always quick.
I would say guillotine would be closest. Even an entire squad shooting at you could potentially miss your heart.
Due to blood being produced I believe that’s disqualified. Otherwise a .22 caliber bullet followed instantly by a .22 hollow point to both the brain and the heart simultaneously would be the fastest and most humane experience for the victim.
However, very few people want to build and operate such a contraption.
Why is blood an issue? Other than cleanup?
the best answer I can find is that the Olympic committee protested that it would affect whether the Olympics would accept attendance in that city if they allowed it, maybe someone can do a deeper dive.
They’re not doing it correctly to be used as euthenasia. You need:
a) a person without COPD, chronic bronchitis, or any other disorder that has swapped their drive to breathe away from increased blood carbon dioxide / acidity and towards oxygen deficiency (fun fact, oxygen deficiency isn’t what drives most people to breathe).
b) a cooperative person who can follow instructions to breathe out fully then take 2-3 full deep breaths
c) a nonrebreather mask which is a special mask with an outlet valve so that when they breathe out that air with all the carbon dioxide is vented while the nitrogen continues being pumped in.
Sounds like they’re fine on A, but not doing B or C.
They were trying to do it cheaply.
No, the cruelty is the point, as per standard procedure. The people who do this sort of shit enjoy killing people and the fucked up US “justice” system lets them do it legally.
It could also be both, using one as the excuse for the other.
So does B make this basically a non-starter? Seems like you’re never going to get someone to cooperate with this (not that I blame them).
Yep. It’s fine for euthanasia but humane execution is impossible because of the extreme drive to survive in humans.
So the problem being they’re probably holding their breath which keeps the c02 in which causes the panic and fighting.
I’d argue the panic begins with the whole being strapped down to die against their will thing
fair
Yes, but if they did that, the prisoner wouldn’t suffer!
Yes, if the prisoner would just calmly participate in being murdered, everyone would be much more comfortable!
So he went through eight minutes at least of pain and panic? Sure sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me. Although the idea that Alabama killed a man using a method considered too brutal to kill animals with does seem fitting.
They enjoy murdering people.
The way they are doing it is horrifying.
No. Perhaps that they are doing it is horrifying, but the way is very humane. It is literally getting loopy and falling asleep, over a very short time period.
Yeah if you’re cooperative and able to breathe all the way out then deep breathe those first few breaths it’s actually the ideal way to go. You do also have to not have COPD or chronic bronchitis or another disorder that’s swapped your breathing drive to oxygen deficiency instead of carbon dioxide excess. The rising CO2 / blood acidity from re-breathing the same air you put out is actually what causes the anxiety / panic of suffocation for most otherwise healthy people, not the oxygen drop. So if they were using a nonrebreather mask and doing this as compassionate euthenasia for terminal illness for people able to cooperate it would actually be one of the better methods.
It is literally getting loopy and falling asleep, over a very short time period.
Maybe read what ACTUALLY happens in stead of regurgitating what WOULD happen under ideal circumstances ffs!
Nah. I know what happens. I’ve experienced asphyxia.
Have you experienced being murdered by the government in front of an audience? Using a method that’s humane if (and ONLY if) you’re completely calm and fully cooperative?
The exact circumstances matter.
Yes, precise circumstances matter.
For nitrogen asphyxiation in general, you do not have to be calm and cooperative for it to be painless, any more than you do so to stand in a room or sit in a chair.
As to the specific setup that the government chose, I can’t vouch for that.
As to the specific setup that the government chose, I can’t vouch for that.
That’s what we’re talking about, though! That’s the topic!
If I was to go on and on across several comments about how nitrous oxide is pleasant to inhale and then go “I don’t know about nitrogen asphyxiation, though” at the end, you’d be very annoyed with me and rightly so!
I agree that nitrogen can be used for a peaceful euthanasia. Definitely not the way they are doing it though.
Unless they are pressurizing the space the guy is in, nitrogen will just make you black out, without suffering (other than the human knowledge that you are about to die, but that exists with all methods).
This comment has been reported. After doing more research than I ever wanted to on this topic, I have determined this to not be misinformation.
As to the accuracy of the information, I cannot say, as all the information science has on it is based on accidents. All I can say is there is evidence to say that this comment was made in good faith.
I will not speak on the topic of death sentence.
When done correctly, i.e. full immersion with proper removal of CO2, then it is humane. The current technique does not remove CO2 from the mask, meaning the victim chokes to death and knows they are choking the entire time.
So, this is similar to how lethal injection executions were getting botched because all the people who knew how to do it properly refused to on moral and ethical grounds, and the states decided to push ahead anyway?
Pretty much. Also down to money, the proper way requires a full chamber, plus constant monitoring and replacement of all gasses in said chamber – it can’t be done with just a mask or helmet, that means thousands of liters of nitrogen per second to do it properly.
It doesn’t mean thousands of litres per second to do it properly. A mask or helmet could be considered a poor tool for the job, though, because they are easier to fight/struggle with, and the person could hurt themselves in the process of that.
You need the normal level of air replacement for any given volume with a human in it, but you need to be using nitrogen as the source of air replacement. If you want to speed the process up, you could do 1x space volume/minute for a couple minutes, then drop it down to a normal rate of replacement.
Choosing a larger volume will not make it painful, but it will make it slower unless you increase the flow. But slower is not bad, per se, except that since it’s an execution, faster is possibly more merciful (depending on the person’s preference) because the person has less time to sit there and contemplate the fact of their death.
The suicide pods are pretty much the ideal balance of space taken. For an execution, perhaps a small room with a chair, and a somewhat faster nitrogen replacement rate (like, 60 volumes/h for the first two minutes, then 5 volumes/h after that).
Since when is 8 minutes of fighting against your restraints and desperately gasping for air “a very short time period?”
Being strangled to death with a piece of rope would take less time than that. A proper chokehold with your bare hands to deny oxygen to the brain would’ve killed him in about a minute.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
With nitrogen, you are literally be breathing out your oxygen. No, a rope is not faster. No, a rope is not more humane.
This comment has been reported. After doing more research than I ever wanted to on this topic, I have determined this to not be misinformation.
As to the accuracy of the information, I cannot say, as all the information science has on it is based on accidents. All I can say is there is evidence to say that this comment was made in good faith.
I will not speak on the topic of death sentence.
Except they’re not filtering out the carbon dioxide, so you’re suffocating in a mix of your own exhalation plus the nitrogen.
Maybe read the part where the dude struggled for 8 minutes before he finally died.
But that’s not a problem with nitrogen asphyxiation, that’s stupid human implementation.
And the human implementation is why people have been arguing with you this whole time. Because he wasn’t executed using proper asphyxiation like that suicide pod (not that execution in itself is morally acceptable anyways), they just slapped a mask on him that was hooked up to a tank of nitrogen.
Even the people watching it found it traumatic because he struggled and thrashed pretty much the whole time.
No. With the notable exception of rodents, animals generally can’t detect oxygen deficiency directly (though they may get loopy).
Nitrogen asphyxiation basically makes you loopy, then unconscious, then dead. It’s experientially equivalent to exposure to normal air at extremely high altitudes. Military pilots are often exposed to this (in a controlled manner) precisely because it’s so hard to recognize, and doesn’t induce fear. Like, epic levels of hard to recognize, as in “Hey Bob, it’s time to put your mask back on to keep you from dying!” Bob: snickers and clearly thinks this is a great joke, until the person straps his mask back on, and he realizes how serious the situation is
You can make a trough for a (non-starved) pig that constantly releases nitrogen gas (which it breathes as it’s eating). The pig puts his head in the trough to eat, then passes out from lack of oxygen (this pulling it’s snout out of the trough), then is like “what was I doing? Oh look, food…” …and goes right back to it, passing out again.
This is completely different from the reaction to carbon dioxide asphyxiation, which the body has sensors for, and induces all kinds of panic. Try the same trough experiment with a pig using carbon dioxide, and it will stay the fuck away from the evil trough of death.
Nitrogen asphyxiation may not be unpleasant, but being executed certainly causes duress.
If the method of execution takes 8 minutes, and makes you “loopy” during that time, while contemplating your impending death, then that’s cruel in my opinion.
In my opinion, if you’re going to execute someone then brevity and certainty must surely be required to make it humane.
Imagine them hanging you upside down trying to find a vein for legal injection and being unable to do so for 2 hours. A firing squad would be better in many ways.
Multiple reports from observers of this execution method: it’s horrible, they thrash around on the gurney and seem to suffer greatly
This guy: nuh uh.
They’re not doing it correctly. The person needs to be cooperative and able to follow instructions, and they need to be using a specific type of mask that vents their breath with the carbon dioxide out.
Yeah, good luck getting someone to be cooperative and calmly following instructions while being murdered by the government in front of an audience 🙄
Precisely. Wonderful if you’ve got highly painful terminal cancer though!
True. Pretty fucked up how the proponents of state murder can’t see how those are fundamentally different situations.
That’s also why I’m being so active in this comments section; I don’t want people reading about compassionate euthenasia thinking “wait isn’t that how they torture people to death?” because it’s not unless you’re basically trying to use it that way. I’ve actually been briefly trained on what to do in an inert gas leak in some of the radiology safety modules for work because some of the imaging machinery uses inert gas and they literally tell you it’s super easy to accidentally die that way because by the time you’ve even noticed you’re almost dead.
Yes, and they need to violate every human instinct and cooperate. They know this gas is there with the specific purpose to kill them against their will, it’s incredibly difficult to voluntarily breathe in that situation
No, they don’t need to cooperate. If you struggle and thrash, no matter how you die, you’ll endure the struggle and thrashing.
I apologize if I implied they should cooperate. Cooperation is necessary for the painlessness. But I believe they have the right to fight to their dying moment and that it is laudable to do so
Yeah, I’m pretty sure most people aren’t going to cooperate in their own execution.
This isn’t like assisted suicide/euthanasia. These are, by definition, people being forced into this by the state. At least some portion of them are always going to be uncooperative.
Yeah. The suicide pods are a good example. There’s enough space in them that the person won’t experience CO2 buildup in the short amount of time it takes.
You can watch Destin from Smarter Every Day almost die on camera* due to hypoxia.
I’ll go looking for the link.Obviously watch the whole video but start at 5:27 (ends around 7:30) for the moment. Watching this freaks me the fuck out every time.
YT Link*He was in a safe environment
Yeah. This is the thing.
Also so many instances of cave divers going loopy then dead in a matter of minutes. It’s astounding that it’s so easy to accidentally die from nitrogen but we just can’t seem to get the hang of not torturing people to death.
Holy shit. I assumed we would have minutes not seconds if a plane depressurized. I understand what that would freak you the fuck out.
That’s not what gets me, its watching him degrade and then not have the presence of mind to simply reenable his oxygen.
That triggers me super hard for some reason
There’s lots of people arguing that you require a cooperative person. But you could just put the person to sleep with an injection first, then strap them to the gurney, then slide them into a tank and just pump stuff in and stuff out. I think it’s the cruelty that keeps it cruel. Those people in charge are as heartless as the cop waiting by the 20mph sign next to the school that happens to have been placed next to the freeway entrance.17mph, you’re good, 21mph… are you white? If not you’re getting a ticket. It’s best done right in front of your own kids. Cruelty is what it is all about.
The problem with that is, no anesthesiologist will work on an execution (something about “do no harm”), and properly sedating someone without one is more difficult than it appears to be.
Probably not that hard if you don’t care if the patient survives.
¯\(ツ)/¯
“Pro life”…
