I wanted to get printer photo paper for my printer, a Canon. I went to Walmart, They had nothing. Went to Target, they had one pack of photo paper and it was crazy expensive, so I went to micro center. That one was just as expensive. So finally I went back to Amazon, which I was trying to avoid, and saw the price 25 to 40% lower than anywhere I had been. Literally everything that I was looking for, I could find within seconds. Not even Best buy has even close to the amount of inventory or variety, even when you’re shopping online…
Therefore, I think Amazon has a literal monopoly in the tech industry right now, you’re literally forced to buy from them, because unless you have the money and financial fortitude to protest with your wallet, you’re going to be buying from them. There’s no other choice. They have so aggressively and dominantly taken over the supply chain market that no other tech company can currently compete with them in any aspect at all. You will be paying 40 to 50% more on everything by cutting out Amazon, and no one has the money for that anymore unless you’re upper middle class or above
There are other online shops besides Amazon. I find an alternative for almost everything that I order and it’s not more expensive. And finding the right product inside Amazon is so exhausting nowadays that it’s not more work to compare different web shops.
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Agreed as to Walgreens. Walgreens has surprised me with their photo and printing options. They are also located in the burbs, so that is nice.
I got beat up on here for stating that Amazon delivery was greener for the exact reasons you said. Plus, some of my Amazon comes via USPS, which is driving by my house every day.
Reliable and fast delivery services also means less space devoted to parking lots and can generally be a really good way to transition communities away from car centric infrastructure. People just hate because cynicism is way easier than thinking critically.
I want to show some love to B&H Photo. They’re one of my go to’s specifically for tech stuff.
I feel like people give up on in store if they can’t find it at a big box store and go to the online equivalent of a big box store (Amazon).
Anybody who puts in a little effort should be able to find a specialty store either in person or online.
Walmart online is eating Amazon they don’t have a monopoly
Walmart online is pretty good for most things. Not everything. But if I can get it on Walmart I do… Walmart plus is pretty good. It currently comes with Paramount Plus, which doesn’t show ads with my pi-hole (so far, Roku), and compared with Amazon Prime showing ads…
Anyway fuck Amazon.
It’s pretty amazing to me that a company hasanagednto become so reviled that Walmart is the better and more ethical option.
It’s like Elon Musk has managed to make Mark Zuckerberg seem like a good person by comparison. Or Trump was so awful that Democrats look back and think “huh, GWB was a decent president”
I was thinking about this recently after a frustrating trip to a brick and mortar store that was missing the specific item I wanted to purchase which should have been easily available.
Has it always been this bad and we just accepted it until Amazon came around and carried most everything, or have stores significantly reduced the inventory they carry to the point where they have become practically useless except as a showroom? It extends to things I only want to purchase in store. Why do clothing and shoe stores never have my size in stock of the item I want? Clothing has become so poor in quality (even expensive stuff) and I’m hard enough to fit that unless it is an item I already have and need to replace I only want to buy stuff I can try on first.
As much as I’d like to avoid Amazon, the lack of inventory at other retailers really pushes me towards them. Why would I pay more for slow shipping from the East coast because the local store doesn’t carry anything when Amazon delivers in 1-2 days for free?
I’ve also been really struggling recently when trying to buy items that are less than $15. Amazon often charges double what it should cost for the items, but at the same time, local stores don’t carry what I’m looking for. I can find it for the right price online, but then the shipping cost makes it more expensive than Amazon.
The American consumers worship of convenience/price above all else is precisely what got us here. Just like how everyone discusses how toxic twitter is… On Twitter.
In regards to twitter - Of course it’s where everyone is, nobody will leave.
In regards to Amazon - Of course everyone else is struggling, nobody will pay $3 more to buy it from them instead of Amazon.
I’m not saying there aren’t times it does end up having to be amazon or that you can’t be lazy and use amazon occasionally. I have prime myself and do use it on occasion (probably wouldn’t if I didn’t split it with my ex though.) I AM saying nothing will ever change so long as people REFUSE to even consider their habits for a second.
the shipping cost makes it more expensive than Amazon.
There is a lesson there folks
That lesson/related lesson:
We cannot accept capitalism’s conception of economic relations as “free and private,” because contracts are not made among economic equals and because they give rise to social structures which undemocratically confer power upon some over others. Such relationships are undemocratic in that the citizens involved have not freely deliberated upon the structure of those institutions and how social roles should be distributed within them (e.g., the relationship between capital and labor in the workplace or men and women in child rearing).
It’s a mix of both. When Amazon came around, stores got less traffic and had to get rid of niche products, and because shelf space was so important, there could only be so many products carried by a store.
Amazon’s pricing I not deterministic. You were likely tracked and information collected to know this was a key item for you. Amazon will market loss leaders to you in an attempt to get you to default to buying on Amazon.
As a former Buyer for a chain of retail stores, the loss leader is effective marketing. I sell you a popular item at or below my typical cost because statistically, a large percentage of customers are making a special trip to my store to buy that product and will make additional purchases at margin. On the wholesale Buying side, these are tools to get past bulk buying tier discounts for seasonal ordering with smaller scale retail.
Amazon is using a convoluted front end system of overlapping product categories and a supposed multi seller listings (despite collectivized logistics and warehousing) on the website you see. This is how they perform price fixing where you do not see honest or straight forward determinism. When you repurchase that same item later without making comparisons, the seller will shuffle so that a higher price is presented.
If you have a well isolated network where device history for social media and internet browsing is totally partitioned from e-commerce you’ll likely see even more of the scam. If you see anyone online show the search results and pricing on Amazon, then try to replicate those search results and product price on a device that is totally partitioned from your viewing of the item/price elsewhere, you’re likely to find it is not possible. If you then go back to the original device and do the same, you’ll magically find the same product and lower price. It is a scam market. This is why they are collecting and paying for all that data about you. We are in an age when automated individual targeting and manipulation is possible and happening. This is why data mining stalkerware is insidious. Scam markets are only the tip of the iceberg and what can be uncovered if you go looking for it. Anyone that has done database or logistics management should have major red flags flying when looking at how Amazon’s website is setup. The front end is absolutely untenable garbage for effective logistics. The only reason it is convoluted and search results are terrible is because it is a price fixing scam. The logistical efficiency proves that there is no connection between the front and back end of the site.
oh so basically the entire shitpost about walmart or whatever it was having “dynamic pricing” is literally already real…
ok.
Did 39 people really believe this enough to upvote this? This is easily proven false. Amazon is convoluted because it’s old as heck and they hire subpar engineers. Like me. I used to work on the team that made the search page. It sucks because most of us were fresh out of college and had never made a website in our lives.
You’ve never done ecommerce logistics. You do not get Amazon’s efficiency from such a garbage system, or the worlds richest man. I have no doubt there are dubious practices to give plausible deniability. The thing is too large and too successful for this to be the big picture. The collectivized warehousing invalidates the front end system and mechanics entirely.
You’ve never done ecommerce logistics
I literally have. Go climb up a tree.
you mean it gives huge discounts to random people because of an error? i would think amazon would want to fix that ASAP
How much does it say these beans cost?
How does CamelCamelCamel display a price history if the price is different for everyone? Perhaps it’s inaccurate for some (Just hasn’t been for me the handful of times I’ve “had“ to use Amazon.)
And Amazon doesn’t price discriminate if they put something on a nationwide sale? So the bloggers can advertise that AirPods are at their lowest price ever?
reporting on their bad biz practices
They definitely get accused of other unsavory stuff:
Amazon “tricks” customers into buying Fire TVs with false sales prices: Lawsuit
Thanks for this. I’ve only used Amazon a few times and was always baffled at the train wreck of its chaotic layout / ux. I had to buy something there once and it was such a process it was like being asked to leave the store before paying. Thought at the time it must be down to legacy and new features being showhorned around ancient web1.0 history, its success being its burden with customers having to learn how to use the thing. Price fixing scam is what I will think of it now, while continuing to avoid it.
chaotic layout / ux
Maybe it’s stockholm syndrome or something, but I find it absolutely fine. My general rule of thumb is to look past the first page of results, since that’s where a lot of the sponsored listings are, and then look at several listings before deciding. As long as you’re aware that the first page or so of results are generally sponsored (i.e. ads), it’s not too hard to find a decent product. And since it’s online, it’s pretty easy to compare w/ other retailers (I’ll often look at eBay, Newegg, and a couple others depending on the type of product before pulling the trigger).
That said, I’m definitely not your typical consumer (I rarely buy things on impulse), so it’s hard for me to understand the impact of their “price fixing” nonsense.
Nah, the layout is absolutely horrible. Especially when you check a box in the filters and other options disappear because Jeff forbid you want to look for motherboards by Asus, Gigabyte, and Asrock but ignore other brands.
Are you talking about the immediate refresh thing? Because yes, that is frustrating.
I don’t know if it happens in browser but sometimes on their app other options disappear if you choose one from the filter.
If I start looking for shoes, and check Adidas under brands filter then the page refreshes and I don’t see any other brands’ names.
Yeh people learn and it becomes normal which is fine. Ebay is as bizarre to me. Not hate, more a morbid fascination that things so maze-like to navigate can also be successful. Could be semi cultural as well. I’ve noticed this being the way in other US platforms with a similar legacy. I’ve also being (attempting to) subvert tracking for quite a while so maybe that’s working and its less useful as a result lol. I’m lucky in a sense that their corporation isn’t so strong where I live so theres more choice (ironically I may actually have less choice). Its annoying when they have the monopoly on a given product, but it’s also possible just to go without the shiny thing.
Ebay
Yeah, it’s a bit odd, but again, once you get used to it, it’s fine. My general rules of thumb:
- narrow by category - avoids the worst of the spam
- only include “buy it now” listings (unless you really want auctions)
- sort by price (including shipping)
- skip the cheapest listing and look for the first “cluster” of listings
- be careful with sellers with a small number of reviews; low reviews aren’t a deal-breaker, they just have a higher chance of BS
I do that each time, and I haven’t had any problems so far.
Maybe it’s stockholm syndrome or something, but I find it absolutely fine.
no it’s absolutely horrid. HOWEVER in your defense, so are like 95% of all websites, ever made, it’s not a unique problem.
Yup, the modern web kinda sucks. But once you learn to navigate it, it’s usable. Mostly.
Great post. Thank you for this insight!
If you see anyone online show the search results and pricing on Amazon, then try to replicate those search results and product price on a device that is totally partitioned from your viewing of the item/price elsewhere, you’re likely to find it is not possible. If you then go back to the original device and do the same, you’ll magically find the same product and lower price.
I noticed this on Walmarts website when asking chat GPT to find items for me. I was wondering why it was happening. Some of the price differences were extreme too.
It’s hard to compete when you’re basically a warehouse and your market is the literal population of the internet.
Yeah, microcenter, even if it’s the only computer/electronics store for 100 miles, can still only hold so much, and they only reach people in/around their city at most. It’s not like people are crossing state lines to get to a computer store… Unless you live on the border of your state, I suppose.
Amazon has, at the very least, dozens of warehouses across the country that can deliver whatever it is you want with remarkable efficiency because postal/parcel services have been systematically improving over the past 50+ years.
I’m not saying I’m a fan of Amazon, but bluntly, is it really surprising, in the slightest, that Amazon can out price everyone else?
Remember that time like 10 years ago, when some local news station was doing a story about Amazon having all the best tech deals, and then the one co-host butts in and says “You know why they have a monopoly, right? RIGHT??? SHE KNOWS WHAT I’M TALKIN ABOUT!!!”
And everybody was giving blank looks, like “Uh…no? What ARE you talking about?”
And he’s like “Because they sell all the sex toys, and deliver it right to your house! Ladies? Right??? IT’S CONVIENENT!!!”
And everybody just had their mouth open in shock like “WTF ARE YOU DOING???”
and then he goes on and on about dildos, as his cohost continually tries to move on, but he keeps talking about dildos. And she’s looking like she wants to strangle him.
I do remember that. It’s not often you get to witness workplace sexual harassment broadcast live on air.
And he was right!
No, but I enjoyed your retelling.
You should watch news bloopers on youtube. There’s so many classics.
“…I so pale…” *You’re on!" Immediately goes into news reporter mode as her cohost giggles
Also, a woman talking to the weatherman: “How bout that 69, huh? I know you’re excited about the no rain, but how bout that 69???” Rest of the news crew stonewalls.
Or the woman doing an on-location report about a guy who grills hamburgers for his resteraunt.
“Now, can I try one of these?”
"Absolutely. I would LOVE to see my meat in your mouth!
“NOT THE FIRST TIME I’VE HEARD THAT!!!”
There was the cohost who was in a grape smashing competition to make wine, and she yelled “WAIT!!!” and then started stomping extra fast herself. Basically cheating. And then she slipped and fell face first off an 8 foot drop right onto her face. And she starts groaning in pain.
Never saw that but that is hilarious.
Lolllll found it. https://youtu.be/cZ0qpPTH1ow?si=b17mHt0cXsDWK1O_
Not as bad as promised. I mean he has a point.
That look on her face is priceless.
Do you mean you went to walmart and target physically, and then directly to amazons website, and no other online shop? There are a ton of competing online stores with similar or better prices than Amazon, often stores specializing in the product you’re buying. Instead of looking up amazon specifically, look up the item youre looking for
Exactly. For tech stuff, B&H Photo and Newegg are generally pretty good, and there are still niche sites within that depending on what you’re looking for (e.g. keyboards and mice have multiple high quality vendors). At the very least, it’s worth using the “shopping” feature on your search engine (I use DuckDuckGo and check their “shopping” tab to get a feel for which vendors sell a given thing).
I’ve been buying a ton of stuff recently on eBay because I usually don’t mind buying used if it’s something more expensive (i.e. cell phone, console games, etc), just be aware that they have different standards than other retailers (e.g. if it’s a refurb phone, you could get an aftermarket screen). But as long as you read the listing carefully, it’s usually all spelled out.
Newegg has started selling shit products since last couple years.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8xNAti0AnfyrhbiKreMAL30MLGfTMqrN
Can’t trust NewEgg anymore. They got bought by a chinese company and their support and experience have gone completely to trash.
That’s fair. However, I’ve never had to interact with their support, or Amazon’s for that matter, so it honestly isn’t something I care strongly about.
That’s fine. Before I knew about the buyout, I wounder up with several broken or defective items, and finally had to reverse charges on a laptop power supply, because they were so bad to deal with.
So the way it’s ruining those markets is by making more goods available at lower prices?
I think it’s worth noting that this is the effect of the free market behaving as designed, however no one has risen up to challenge Amazon enough along the way. So many retailers ignored e-commerce in the early days and went on with business as usual. Fast forward 20 years and Amazon has eaten into their market shares. A large retailer like WalMart absolutely has the ability to challenge Amazon by investing in the user experience and warehousing/delivery infrastructure. But often the old heads at these companies ignore improving the user experience in favor of making cuts. Amazon didn’t happen overnight. It’s been a steady growth in their business model over decades and the user experience is key to what made them so popular. It takes seconds to find what you want, for often times cheaper than the competition and in many cases the shipping is lower and faster.
What would be difficult is for a start up company with little capital to try and take on these behemoths. Perhaps a coalition of large companies like Target, Best Buy, B&N, Kohl’s, etc. grouping together to create a large distribution network and app platform with a good user experience could compete.
Just a thought.
AWS is a whole other can of worms.
It’s about how they do it. They achieve this not only by being incredibly efficient through exploiting thier employees, but also by systematically destroying competition, and using thier marketplace to unfairly favor thier own products.
It’s techno-feudalism, here’s a great presentation/interview about it:
So politely, how does Amazon offering a better price on a niche paper product conflate into them having a monopoly on the “tech industry”?
I’d posit the real thing here is that Amazon’s warehouses allow them to keep less-purchased products around in stock that a brick-and-mortar retail store simply wouldn’t bother with at all, but that’s been the case for decades at this point.
And, yes, printing out images has become an uncommon activity and I can’t say I’d blame any of the larger stores for only having a single expensive option available, but that’s their decision, not Amazon’s.
The long tail has always been one of Amazon’s strengths.
That said, buying anything from them runs a good chance of getting knock off garbage these days.
knock off garbage these days
Yep. I actually order more junk from AliExpress than Amazon now, because it’s the same shit except AliExpress is half the cost so if I’m going to get junk at least I’m paying junk-level prices.
(This is mostly components and other hobby-related stuff where there never really was any difference between AliExpress and Amazon, other than faster shipping.)
Bingo. Temu and Aliexpress. Same site, really.
Woodpecker or the item you can freely drop on the concrete floor without crying due to loss of investment.
Eh, going to disagree that Aliexpress == Temu.
Not that I’m saying Aliexpress is a paragon of virtue, but Temu is full of dark patterns, scammy “discounts” and just nonstop playing games trying to get you to buy now, refer people, and “win” shit. It’s a gambling app that happens to sell toxic trash as a side gig.
Aliexpress really has cleaned their shit up and basically sends you what you expect to get, when you expect to get it, and has made refunds for blatant bullshit (I had to return some clearly counterfeit remarked chips) if not easy then at least something you could actually accomplish.
100% agreed. There’s no way I’m touching Temu, but I do go to AliExpress every now and then. And most of the time, I can line up the Amazon listing for whatever I’m buying with a bit of research, so I can benefit from the reviews there (and not the 5 star reviews, but 1-2 star reviews).
how does Amazon offering a better price on a niche paper product conflate into them having a monopoly on the “tech industry”?
For starters, it’s typically not “better price” so much as “only people able to consistently obtain supply”. The real price is very likely higher than it was 5-10 years ago when production was prolific.
But also, we saw this game play out with Walmart. The monopoly retailer has an opportunity to outsource to the least ethical producer.
So Amazon gets to be the sole distributor of printer paper, the manufacturer is some old growth harvestor in the Amazon using prison/slave labor for harvesting/processing, and even then you’re paying more for a worse product than when a well regulated and unionized workforce was producing the commodity a decade earlier.
So Amazon gets to be the sole distributor of printer paper, the manufacturer is some old growth harvestor in the Amazon using prison/slave labor for harvesting/processing, and even then you’re paying more for a worse product than when a well regulated and unionized workforce was producing the commodity a decade earlier.
That doesn’t really make sense in this context as this paper is made by Canon not Amazon. You could make the argument that Canon is using rainforest paper, but then the rest of this kind of falls apart.
this paper is made by Canon not Amazon
Rubbermaid had to completely downsize and restructure its workforce as Walmart chewed through the retail competitors who purchased their products wholesale. This was back in the 90s.
Canon is under the same pressure today. Amazon sets the wholesale price point as a monopsony and Canon has to deliver at that price or fail to make the sales.
Not only that but Amazon isn’t the only online retailer to sell stuff like this. OP only checked some brick and mortar stores then went straight to Amazon without even checking out other places like Canon directly, B&H, Walmart.com, etc.
Doesn’t look like they went to an Office Max/Depot or Staples either, which honestly, would be my first stop for printers and printer accessories these days, since printers have very much fallen into just office-use shit and that one damn thing a year you have to print because some jackass is still stuck in 1988.
Brick and mortar will always be more expensive and there are always cheaper options than Target. I used to love Fry’s but they are no more.
It depends on the product, but brick and mortar is superior to Amazon in some cases now. It’s mostly just things that are easy to ship that Amazon is cheap for.
Amazon is a place where you have to deal with fake items and getting fraudulent returns shipped to you as new. Your reward for this is maybe a 5% discount.
You really think that in 2024 - a time when not even school children are expected to print out reports because everything is submitted digitally - the fact that photo printer paper not being ubiquitous reflects literally anything other than we’ve mostly moved past paper as a society?
I’m not saying reddit is better - it clearly is not - but ask yourselves why Lemmy is so absolutely shit at applying Occam’s Razor to their own biases?
Here in Canada, I find the prices pretty neck and neck. Small items tend to be a bit cheaper at the stores, since there is very little overhead for them to carry small items compared to Amazon’s picking and delivery logistics. Big items tend to be a bit cheaper on Amazon. For tech specifically, Best Buy price matches items, so it’s not that bad… Memory express and CC sometimes have lower prices than Amazon too (see PCPartPicker).
The main reason to use Amazon is you can easily find some really obscure stuff. Then again, you can buy direct from manufacturer, like Vevor, for often cheaper.
It sounds like you went to several physical stores and when their stock on hand was not sufficient you concluded your only option was Amazon. What about the rest of the internet?
I’ve been deeply hooked on Amazon for a long time and trying to wean myself off of it for a variety of reasons. The most helpful thing in this, I’ve found, is Apple Pay.
I happen to use an iPhone and Apple Pay is easy. It is increasingly accepted everywhere, making any online store a one-click purchase. Maybe for you it would be PayPal or Google Pay but whatever your preference is, these payment services have come a long way.
For years I was stuck on Amazon because of the convenience. I am not ashamed - convenience is a real benefit when life is busy. And I had everything set up on Amazon, and they had most things available in their search.
But Google Shopping also has almost everything in the world available and most or all the retailers there accept Apple Pay. So now I just do that. It works just as easily.
You can even search on Amazon and then take note of the name of the seller and search the internet for them and then buy direct. Most have websites because Amazon fees eat into their profits. They would rather sell direct. And easy payment services plus ecommerce platforms like Shopify and Square make it easier than ever.
Amazon is becoming a cesspool of Chinese scams these days. I am tempted to say that I still prefer Amazon because the returns are easy but the fact is that I have HAD to return a lot of things to Amazon because they were not what I thought I was buying or they were just absolute shit quality or arrived broken.
So the point remains: you have alternatives. Use them. If you want physical stores, that’s another matter entirely and I agree those are getting fewer and worse. But Amazon doesn’t always beat them on price. You should check every time and you might be surprised. I was in my local CVS and I saw they had the exact LED bulbs I needed to buy but I thought they’d be too expensive there so I checked Amazon on the spot. CVS beat them by a couple of dollars. So check every time!