During a recent episode of The Verge’s Decoder podcast, Logitech CEO Hanneke Faber shed some possible insight into the company’s view on one of its most important products. Saying that “the mouse built this house,” Faber shares the planning behind a Forever Mouse, a premium product that the company hopes will be the last you ever have to buy. There’s also a discussion about a subscription-based service and a deeper focus on AI.
For now, details on a Forever Mouse are thin, but you better believe there will be a catch. The Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.
So many CEOs these days have their heads completely up their own ass when it comes to the concept of “buy it for life”.
There’s also a discussion about a subscription-based service and a deeper focus on AI.
This line made me think that maybe the subscription was a different thing? So I googled and found this interview: https://www.theverge.com/24206847/logitech-ceo-hanneke-faber-mouse-keyboard-gaming-decoder-podcast-interview:
I’m going to ask this very directly. Can you envision a subscription mouse?
Possibly.
And that would be the forever mouse?
Yeah.
So you pay a subscription for software updates to your mouse.
Yeah, and you never have to worry about it again, which is not unlike our video conferencing services today.
But it’s a mouse.
But it’s a mouse, yeah.
I think consumers might perceive those to be very different.
[Laughs] Yes, but it’s gorgeous. Think about it like a diamond-encrusted mouse.
Okay…
Also from that interview:
Some only have a mouse or only a keyboard, but many of them have both. But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low. This is stuff you use every day, that sits on your desk every day, that you look at every day. That’s like the price of four coffees at Starbucks or less than a Nike running shirt. There is so much room to create more value in that space as we make people more productive — to extend human potential.
Guys, you are not giving Logitech enough money! You can do better!
Think about it like a diamond-encrusted mouse.
Oh good grief. Do they really think they can adopt the subscription-for-heated-seats model, and get people to use their high-end computer peripherals as some kind of flex? I just don’t see people holding their “Logitechtm Gamer PC Lease” over anyone else’s head.
My optimism has me thinking that this CEO is deliberately tilting at windmills in order to appease shareholders, because Logitech has been around long enough to be steady-state (not growing much) at this point.
It felt like a joke based on the tone.
I hate this approach to business.
Coupling subscriptions with forced obscolecence is a nightmare. If HP made the best printer money could buy, using it with a subscription model would be a hard sell. But they make shit printers that die at the drop of a hat, so coupling them with a subscription is asinine.
Logitech makes a decent mouse, passable webcams, and shit keyboards.
Just in case anyone from Logitech ever reads this, I own 2 MX Verticals, an MX Ergo, and an MX Master 2S. I love them all, but I’d rather use an OEM bog standard Dell mouse than pay for a subscription.
The Logitech k120 is a worthy warrior. Id never get an expensive keyboard from them though
They don’t even make good mice technically because of planned obsolescence.
Their switches die, intentionally, long before the life time of any other components on their mice. And have for nearly 10 years now.
They way I got introduced to hardware as a service is that it was a solution to planned obsolescence.
In theory, a hardware subscription means that if you pay for X months of that hardware, you gonna get it. Doesn’t matter if it breaks, it should be replaced while your subscription lasts.
So taking that into account, the less the hardware breaks, the more profit they have. So not only should it eliminate planned obsolescence, it would make engineering for durable products an actually very profitable business.
So, what is the difference between this approach and just selling an extended warranty?
With subscription you don’t own the product, but also you don’t pay up front.
With subscription, you should be able to buy as many months as you want. With extended warranty, I think companies usually only sell 1 extended warranty per item.
(I’m pulling the prices out of my ass, don’t try to calculate which one is more “worth it”.
Extended warranty:
30€ for the mouse (3 years warranty) 5€ 1 year extended warranty.
You are sure to have the item for at least 4 years. After that, you can use it until it breaks.
Subscription:
1€/month
You get to use the mouse for exactly the months you paid for. No more, no less
Also, with subscriptions you are likely to get a second hand item. But when you buy the item you are gonna get 1st hand unless you shop at Amazon.
I personally wouldn’t buy a subscription, I prefer to own it. However, I’ll admit that it’s not black and white, and subscriptions also have some benefits.
Another way instead of per time window is per use. For example, in the case of a mouse, per clicks.
So if you buy 1.000.000 clicks and rarely use the computer, you get to own the mouse for a very long time for very cheap, just in case you ever want to use it. This is basically today’s planned obsolescence, except the item doesn’t become trash, the company would just reset the counter and you or the next client can keep using it. If you use it a lot, it’s going to become real expensive real fast though.
The Logitech UltraX Flat was hands down the best keyboard I ever used in my life. Sadly after decades of use (with a ps/2 to usb adapter) at some point some key pressure sensors started failing, so I had to switch. But I swear if I ever see a new one on ebay, I’ll get it in a heartbeat.
It’s really insane that they want the good press and loweree manufactured volume of a quality item… But also for it to fail and you need to buy up whenever they arbitrarily say so.
It’s horrifying. Absolutely broken fucking mindset that only works if we truly are trapped having to buy from them and I just don’t see how that can be true before someone says fuck it and competes.
It’s so grossly profit seeking I just will feel really defeated if it actually works.
I used to just buy Logitech when I needed something because it’s good quality and good value, they seem to be intent on moving away from both
The answer to this is simple. Go private. Get a buyout and delist so you aren’t literally required to permanently and constantly grow your company bigger and sell more than you did last year for the rest of eternity in the name of the almighty shareholders.
Sell great hardware to people who need it, develop a loyal fan base, and treat them right, forever. I guarantee that the rate of valid, reasonable purchases of high-quality, durable new mice and keyboards is more than enough to sustain a very healthy company full of very talented employees forever, as long as they aren’t required to always make more money than ever before.
Reminds me of what happed to GE’s lighting division. They used to have a steady stream of income from people replacing burned out bulbs. The CFLs and LED bulbs came in.
GE made a ton of money selling the new bulbs to homes, businesses and cities, but then the money dried up because the new bulbs lasted way longer.
Then they started scrambling to do weird shit with lighting. Like cramming cameras and sensors into bulbs so lights could be used for surveillance in cities and stores. They were basically struggling to find a new reason why you’d want to by a new bulb.
The LED elements last a lifetime, but the driver transistors burn out as frequently as traditional bulbs
My entire house is LEDs. I was a pretty early adopter and I still have the OG Phillips bulbs floating around my house.
In 10 years I’ve only had one bulb crap out. With incandescent bulbs there were always several a year that needed to be swapped. Back in the day I used to have a box of extra bulbs in my closet. I no longer keep that box because it’s just taking up space for something that is almost never touched.
Most articles confirm my experience and show that LEDs have muuuuch longer lifespans.
Yeah that’s gonna be a no for me dawg.
Last mouse I bought from them had a 2 years warranty. I thought okay fine. 1½ year after purchase, it started double-clicking.
Reached out to customer service, proof of purchase and everything. Agree that mouse need to be replaced, so they send me a new mouse, but for some reason they shipped it from the US to Canada and the custom duty was almost the price of a new mouse.
Big wtf, next time I’ll ask for either a refund or some kind of way to get a free replacement from a store in Canada…
I havent bought a mouse in 15 years. My current one was a spare while working IT.
I think this idea is even stupider than it seems, and that’s alright pretty fucking bad. I don’t think this idiot understands that people who still buy mice are people who didn’t “upgrade” to iPads or just use their phone as their only computer. We are power users, and are more likely to smell the bullshit than anyone else.
given how much is going on in the diy / open source keyboard community, I’m sure there’s going to be some options
100%.
Even today, you can buy a component kit and 3D print your own custom shell for a DIY mouse. (the hardware quality is alright)
I can only imagine what the OSS community will do once companies like Logitech try rolling this crap out on a larger scale. It’s like the outrage against all things wrong with printers, except so much lower tech that almost anyone could build their own.
Guess I’m either stocking up a couple extra 502 mice now, or I need to find a new mouse. I’m not looking forward to trying to find a new mouse, the 502 is perfect in my hand.
“This is a premium feature. To unlock the right-click menu, just enjoy this 30 second ad, or click to add to your monthly subscription.”
I use a computer a lot, and I have an expensive keyboard and mouse. I’m the target market in a sense; if there was a compelling enough upgrade to either, I’d probably buy it.
I can’t imagine what software features they could possibly offer that would qualify, doubly so as a subscription. I picked my mouse because it has lots of buttons, a responsive sensor, low-latency wireless, and it runs on a standardized replaceable battery. It would be hard to improve any of that with software.
Insanity. I spend $5.00 or so on $eCommerceSite and am perfectly happy with the result.
I make that expenditure maybe every four or five years. I don’t need a ‘forever mouse,’ they already last practically that long.
Instant Pot was a product so good that customers rarely needed to buy another one. The company went bankrupt.
Bull-fucking-shit. That’s just not how any of this works.
There are plenty of companies that make appliances that last a long fucking time, and don’t have to rely on fucking DLC micro transaction AI bullshit. The reason Instant Pot went bankrupt is the same reason a ton of popular companies have recently had issues: They got bought by private equity (who also owned Pyrex and fucked them over), saddled with a shitton of bad debt, squeezed of every bit of brand value they had, and then left to fall apart as the PE firm made off with millions.
The fact that the writer correlated “quality, durable good” with “unsuccessful business and bankruptcy” is absolutely one of the worst takes, and really shows just how pervasive this disgusting idea of “must be disposable to be profitable” really is.
Partially true, but also they wouldn’t invest in something that lasts forever (without it costing an absurd amount of money or the subscription requirement). I like this video that shows the issue pretty well. (TLDW: Communist Germany made glass so durable it didn’t break as a product to sell to the west. No company would purchase it though because they made most of their profit from selling replacements. The glass is now what we call Gorilla Glass, which is really only available on phones, which are designed to be replaced every few years anyway.)
100 years ago there was a meeting amongst lightbulb manufacturers that all collectively agreed to only design light bulbs to last about 1,000 hours. They were known as The Phoebus Cartel and Included Phillips and GE. Up until this agreement lighbulbs were typically lasting up to 2,500 hours. The manufacturers essentially created the concept of planned obsolescence because people weren’t buying as many lighbulbs as they wanted and it was decided to stop making longer lasting bulbs with higher costs. The whole thing started falling apart (competition of non members that were making bulbs, but they were all small operations, as well as patent expirations that GE had) and the start of world War two pretty much broke it up, as the Cartel couldn’t keep everything regulated and tested due to all the travel restrictions and such. But it still remains as the first global wide creation of planned obsolescence.
Extra fun fact: the common light socket screw design/size has remained the same since 1880.
That is mostly a myth. They did agree of the lifetime, but it wasn’t planned obsolescence like people act. The lifetime of a bulb is directly related to how bright it is. If you make a really dim bulb it lasts a long time, which is how that one in the firehouse is still alive. It’s so dim it’s effectively useless. The group met to decide on a luminosity target, which also is a lifespan target effectively.
Yes, A dim bulb is extremely inefficient, it will use a lot of electricity for a very small amount of light.
On the other hand you can make very efficient lightbulb that will be very bright for a small amount of electricity but last only for a few minutes.
The 1000 hours limits is a his middle ground.
And what of the noble gas filled bulbs that were both brighter and longer lasting?
i mean, all incandecant bulbs are filled with a noble gas, Argon. If they didnt any bulb would have a lifespan measured in seconds.
Back in the 1920’s and earlier they were commonly just in a vacuum.
Not if you read/believe most of the info on the wiki. US government fined GE over it in 1949.
No, even the wiki (under “purpose”) says the myth is probably not true. It was a cartel though, and therefore illegal in many/most places. It just wasn’t because the planned obsolescence. Lowering lifespan also led to selling more bulbs though, so it was useful for that.
Thank you for typing this up because I was not capable of doing it because vitriol messes up my WPM.
And I want whoever came up with this idea to spontaneously combust, but neither of us is going to get what we want.
Logitech’s quality has been steadily dropping. Got fed up with thumb trackball buttons failing in less than 2 years. Logitech was my go to for most computer peripherals, but I just can’t justify replacing all my family’s trackballs every two years at $60 a pop.
Switched over to Elecom because they are one of the only brands selling wired thumb trackballs and so far they are great. It’s unfortunate, my first Logitech trackball lasted at least 10 years. It never broke, just got lost in a move. Used to love their stuff but, the only thing left from the Logitech I bought my first trackball from is the name.
Never heard of Elecom. Thank you for that.
