It’s not woke if all the characters are black. Can you provide some examples of this?
It can feel “woke” if the characters were white and are now black, or if the character’s skin color is paraded around as some virtue signal or trophy. If the skin color of a character breaks an already established rule of the story world (for example, black skinned dwarves or elves in Lord of the Rings), that can also contribute to a “woke” feeling. The established rules of the world or story should not bend around or break just to ensure a diverse skin color of every race in the story.
Nobody complains about Mr. T in the A-Team, Denzel Washington as Robert McCall in The Equalizer, or Samuel L Jackson playing Mace Windu, because the color of their skin is not their only defining quality. They are well written and highly beloved characters that are important to their story, have equally as good acting and dialogue as the other characters in their stories, and are played by actors that are well qualified. Their characters feel like they were always meant to be there, and when they were written into their story, their skin color didn’t matter.
While I’ll entertain a discussion on whether equalizer movies are (over)woke for swapping the lead - despite Denzel kill-ing-it and already a national treasure, which will be my rebuttal there - I will not tolerate any blasphemy of mace windu being miscast. Down to the purple lightsaber, it was perfect, and I’m only sad our time was so short with that – I really wanted to see SLJ kicking some seeeerious butt.
And really. Who else but Mr Washington can play Robert McCall now? Affleck as a batman/accountant meld? Lou Diamond Phillips as himself? Nah. Denzel owns it now; he bought it fair and square, and we got the better on that deal.
Wait, Denzel is in that show? Maybe I’ll have to watch it ……
I saw that a new Equalizer exists, but the thumbnail always showed a black woman. Trying to picture Robert McCall as a young beautiful black woman was not happening.
Denzel is in the newer movies, not the TV shows. And he does a great job, I definitely recommend the trilogy. He plays the role very well.
I agree, Denzel did a phenomenal job. My point was that the story of The Equalizer is so well written, that it doesn’t matter what the skin color of the characters are, the story is equally as compelling with a great actor. The skin color of the character wasn’t considered when writing the story, or it wasn’t important to the story.
I also agree on Mace Windu. The fact that George Lucas let Samuel L Jackson pick the purple lightsaber color himself is a teatament to his importance to George in the story. I have a hard time seeing someone else playing the role, but its possible there is some alternate reality where that role is held by someone else.
I think any really good actor could just as well portray Robert McCall. I certainly think Ben Affleck could do it, as he did a great job in The Accountant. Perhaps not Lou Diamond Phillips, I don’t know much about his acting but I have a hard time seeing it. I could absolutely see a younger Christopher Lloyd or John Malkovich as McCall, though. Even Bob Odendirk, who was great as the main character in Nobody, could probably pull it off as well. But I still do like Denzel’s portrayal. Hes a great actor and I always think he does such a great job in whatever role he plays.
The strangest thing about the black people in Rings of Power isn’t that they exist. It’s that there’s so few of them, and they’re all prominent roles.
It makes the world feel like there’s a reverse curse, where a baby comes out black and they immediately make it their king.
Some ahem were complaining about all black movies such as Wakanda Forever and Black Panther being woke.
Is Wakanda Forever too ‘woke’ for Marvel’s own good? | Stuff - https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/300737260/is-wakanda-forever-too-woke-for-marvels-own-good
Nelson Peltz Criticizes Disney’s “Woke” Strategy With ‘Black Panther’ - https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/nelson-peltz-disney-woke-black-panther-marvels-1235859565/
I haven’t watched Wakanda Forever, but I am going to guess it is accused of being woke because it probably tries to push a political message or ideology and doesn’t do a very good job of weaving it into the story (very common for modern Disney). Looking at some of the complaints, it appears to have a similar problem to other modern Disney films, in which women are put on an elevated pedestal and men are left to be bumbling idiots completely incapable of basic human functions. This is the most common complaint I see in the reviews, but I don’t see any specific complaints that every character is black. I’m sure its possible some people might complain about it, though I doubt it is a significant portion of the complaints if I haven’t seen it mentioned in the 100 or so reviews I quickly skimmed through.
I did watch Black Panther, but I don’t remember much about it. I remember the bad looking CG, and there being some points where I felt modern Disney’s political messaging was poorly written and “too obviously preaching to the audience,” for a lack of a better way to put it. Not because all the characters were black in the story that literally takes place in Africa. I do recall noticing that Disney chose only white actors to play all the villain roles in Black Panther, which normally wouldn’t have been a problem but in the context of modern Disney and when you have all the black people as “the good guys” and all the white people as “the bad guys,” that is probably going to be taken by a lot of people as political messaging. I didn’t have any issues with Chadwick, he was a good actor for the role of Black Panther IMO. I was sad to hear about his passing. I don’t recall being particularly irked by any other character than that one girl that was his science assistant (I think, I dont remember fully), but I also only watched the movie once in theaters when it came out. So it has been a while.
That’s not to say people are incapable of being racist, but most of the time something isn’t called woke only because the entire cast is black, unless the story was supposed to have white characters that are suddenly black instead (like the live action Little Mermaid, for example). It needs some other context to be called woke other than just “the whole cast is black.”
Supacell, a new Netflix series, was attacked by right-wingers for having many black characters. Just go to YouTube and read the comments.
I have never heard of this show, but it appears that most of the negativity is about how it is focused on “showing how societal failings have lead to stereotypes in black people,” which, if that is true, would be pushing ideological or political messaging. Now, if the show makes no attempt to actually write that into the story but instead makes it obvious it is trying to “educate” or “preach” to the audience, it would likely be considered woke. People watch entertainment to be entertained and escape from reality, not to be bombarded with more real life social politics in their time theyre trying to get away from all that. And thats likely the biggest reason the pushback is so strong, its like prodding a bear when its trying to go to sleep.
I also read that apparently the show has only black people with super powers because it is “based on real science since people with sickle cell disease are mostly black,” but mostly is different from only. White people can also have SCD, so why couldn’t the show have one who also was born to parents with SCD? To a person accusing the show of feeling woke, it would appear like a convenient excuse to erase people that are white with sickle cell disease.
YouTube comments isn’t usually the best place to get information about real opinions, since most of them are going to be trolls or 13 year olds thinking they’re being cool or edgy. There may be some comments that are genuine, but that hasn’t been true in my experience.
I also read that apparently the show has only black people with super powers because it is “based on real science since people with sickle cell disease are mostly black,” but mostly is different from only. White people can also have SCD, so why couldn’t the show have one who also was born to parents with SCD?
You’re right, the show would have been so much better if they added a token white character to pander to white people. They don’t get represented enough, and them heavy handedly shoving one in would have been perfect.
if that is true, would be pushing ideological or political messaging.
If it’s a cold hard fact (which it is), it’s not “pushing a message”.
Why are you putting “educate” and “preach” in quotes?
White people can also have SCD, so why couldn’t the show have one who also was born to parents with SCD? To a person accusing the show of feeling woke, it would appear like a convenient excuse to erase people that are white with sickle cell disease.
Sickle cell disease occurs in 1:58,000 Caucasians, 1:1,100 Hispanics (eastern states), 1: 32,000 Hispanics (western states), 1:11,500 Asians, and 1:2,700 Native Americans. About 1:12 African Americans carry sickle cell trait. About 1 in every 365 Black or African American babies are born with sickle cell disease.
So just with those odds, there’s also the the fact that not everyone who has the trait necessarily has abilities in the show, so you’d make these increasingly complex jumps in logic just to get a white person on the show for… what? White people haven’t historically been in the minority in western TV. White males, especially, we haven’t been the victims of systematic injustice on anything even nearing the level of what most minorities have gone through.
It’s just as stupid as “straight pride”. Yeah, go ahead, celebrate your heterosexuality, but calling it “pride” doesn’t make any sense since no-one ever shamed anyone for being straight
It’s amazing how much assumption you fit into one comment
Was the antagonist not also a villian?
I haven’t watched Wakanda Forever, but […] Looking at some of the complaints, it appears to have a similar problem to other modern Disney films, in which women are put on an elevated pedestal and men are left to be bumbling idiots completely incapable of basic human functions.
No, not at all. There are three male characters in the film (Winston Duke’s M’Baku, Martin Freeman’s Everett Ross, and Tenoch Huerta’s Namor), and they are all very competent. One is a CIA agent, and the other two are leaders of their people.
I did watch Black Panther […] I do recall noticing that Disney chose only white actors to play all the villain roles in Black Panther
The villain in Black Panther was Erik Killmonger, played by the very black Michael B. Jordan.
(East) Asians are the most accepted race aside from white people. Not that racism against them doesn’t exist, but it seems that white people naturally gravitate towards them compared to other races
racists gonna racist 🤷♀️
Cause of racism. -_-
Thanks to Ibram X Kendi’s books that helped me become anti-racist.
You see, the dominants start to express their disapproval by downvotes. Would not be surprised to see my own brother among them -_-…
It’s always comfortable to be a dominant and ignore the sensitivity of the dominated
I wanted to bring up something like The Broken Earth series, but I suppose some people would find that woke too
It is not the case where I live. So probably some cultural thing of your area.
Because the term “woke” when used as a criticism is literally just a dog whistle for racists, misogynists, and homophobes.
The word “dogwhistle” has also lost all meaning. I mean that’s its mostly used to patronize the other side. Much like how they use woke. There are reasonable people on both side and none of them use these words.
If a dog whistle no longer means “something that is said with the intention of most people hearing something harmless and others knowing what the speaker actually means” please enlighten me.
Seems like an accurate usage to me.
this sure is a word salad of a non-statement.
What? They used the word correctly. How are you gonna pull out “both sides” when they’re correct? It hasn’t lost its meaning, you just don’t like hearing it so often because, surprise surprise, there’s an awful lot of dog whistling going on in the current political cycle. It means a signal used to communicate loyalty or belief to an idea, group, platform, etc, that is understood by other people who agree, and not necessarily obvious to the neutral observer. In this case, the word “woke” is a dog whistle for bigots. It was applied correctly.
I get it. But it is not “you don’t like it”, that’s obviously just your interpretation of how I must think. It is simply the notion that, indeed, it happens a lot lately. Seems to be tied to the current radicalization of politics.
I do suppose there is dogwhistles on all sides. Left, right, racists, nazis, communist and all other radical groups. But i primarily hear it about nazis and racists. That made me think it was something tied to racists and nazis. Maybe that is just because racists and nazis are in the centre of attention a lot these days.
Man the whole theft of “woke” and the subsequent use of it as a form of slur should point to the answer.
Being Woke means that you are aware of systemic inequalities and biases. That’s it. The word originated as a term for that among the black community, specifically about systemic racism.
It did spread among other marginalized groups, because it is such a simple and powerful word for a giant concept. That concept applies to more than just racial issues because systematic bigotry is so fucking ingrained into the social structures of the world. And I mean world, not just “the west”. There are forms of bigotry and inequality everywhere. But it is essentially an English term, and is mostly a US term. The concept behind it is universal.
Yet again, racists and bigots stole something from black people amd turned it against them.
Make no mistake, anyone using the word Woke in a negative sense, as an insult towards something is 100% dog whistling their bigotry. They are absolutely racist, even if only by the appropriation of the word and using it against marginalized groups other than black people.
So, stay woke, people. Systemic bigotry exists, and you can become a target of it.
It’s just like their previous theft of the term “bleeding heart”. A person with the bleeding heart was someone who just cared so fucking much, and so they mocked bleeding heart liberals for caring so much that their hearts just bleeding away, wah wah way.
And used that term to justify the hardness of their own hearts and to somehow imply that it’s manly to not have feelings.
Well said.
“Those damn SJW’s” is another.
Oh I’m sorry, you’re against social justice…?
It is effective in that context that’s why it frightens bigots so much and they want to change it from that context.
I used to read a lot of books. And while not coming straight out and say this person is white or whatever I got that the characters where just like me and I think that is what all authors want without saying it straight out. The purpose of a book or story is to let the reader decide. Woke just reminds me of the new Jim Crow laws cry.
Racism
People who complain about things being woke are not rational
Because (among the political right) woke is just a coded term racists use for things they don’t like.
Because the people that say that are racist assholes, duh.
I rewatched Shawshank Redemption recently and I absolutely believe that if it came out today, there would be racist “influencers” being pissed that Morgan Freeman was playing Red, who in the novel, Red was a red-headed Irishman.
First, think about when you see something in film that doesn’t make sense. For example, the final season of Game of Thrones when Danerys goes bonkers out of nowhere. Everyone thought that made no sense because in their own lives, personality is generally stable. People don’t go from being altruistic to genocidal because of a bell. Watchers then blamed the producers for making a terrible decision with the season due to ulterior personal motives.
Think about what a racist’s life looks like. What do their social environments look like? They likely only have a few people of color (PoC) around if any. They may have interactions with PoC at work, but since work is somewhat of a forced experience because their coworkers were chosen by someone else, that’s what interactions there feel like: imposed. So to them, life is a bunch of a White people and PoC are impositions. This is reality for them.
When they see a movie that doesn’t reflect their reality, they notice it and try to make sense of it. Applying what their reality is, they see the PoC as being imposed. The right-wing media then plays off of this and tells them that it’s because a progressive boogeyman is trying to make reality different for nefarious purposes. Progressive people are blamed for their discomfort and so it goes.
Usually replies like these end up being someone’s own little bullshit perspective, but I think you really nailed this. I’m glad that I took the time to read it. It really helps understand someone else’s completely different world, and therefore completely different perspective.
And so it goes.
somestupidquestions
