• starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          This is nonsense. If I have a thing, and I give you that thing freely and of my own volition, you have not exploited me. If we’re going to say that that’s necessarily exploitation, then all transactions are exploitative, and nothing could be considered vegan except for growing your own vegetables in the wild. No, human-derived food can be vegan, as is the case with milk.

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            10 months ago

            No, human-derived food can be vegan, as is the case with milk.

            too many commas there.

            No human-derived food can be vegan, as is the case with milk.

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                10 months ago

                your peta link is out of date. it says that the academy of nutrition and dietetics says that appropriately planned vegan diets are appropriated at all stages, but that paper has expired and is no longer a position of the academy.

                • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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                  10 months ago

                  My point was not that PETA supported breastfeeding based on a study they cited, my point was that PETA, an organization considered by many to be an extremist vegan organization, recommends breastfeeding.

                  I cannot fathom why I need to explain this to you. PETA hates every human activity that isn’t vegan. PETA does not hate breastfeeding. Ergo, it is reasonable to assume via the transitive property that breastfeeding must be vegan, as it is a human activity that PETA does not hate. The exact same can be said for the vegan society link I provided in a different comment.

            • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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              10 months ago

              Sure, it’s the most braindead definition you can use, and it ignores the very concept of why vegans are vegan in the first place. Big “gender=sex is basic biology” energy here

                • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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                  10 months ago

                  The vegan society also says

                  Exclusive breastfeeding is recommended for the first six months of your baby’s life. It is also recommended that you continue to breastfeed until your child is at least two years old.

                  But wait, why would the Vegan Society advise breastfeeding if milk isn’t vegan?

                  How do you manage to be so consistently wrong about everything you talk about? It seems like half the stupid arguments I get in on this platform are with you specifically

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    10 months ago

                    they also say that you only need to practice veganism in so far as it is practicable. recommending the people do the practicable thing instead of the vegan thing is perfectly in line with a vegan society’s definition. that doesn’t change whether it’s exploitation.

                • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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                  10 months ago

                  When they say “all forms of exploitation,” do you think they mean “exploitation in every form, be it for food, clothing, entertainment, etc.,” or do you think they mean “exploitation by every conceivable definition?” Because every vegan lives as if it is the former, and the latter is a semantic argument that’s only ever made in bad faith.

                  So what do vegans mean when they say “exploitation?” Well, without a clear definition from them, we have to make inferences. Not breastfeeding is possible and practicable thanks to plant-based formulas, yet they don’t recommend against it. Therefore, it must be the case that human milk, in the context of breastfeeding, is vegan, as if it weren’t, they would necessarily recommend against it. That rules out any definition of “exploitation” that is as simple as “make use of,” because if their definition were that simple, they would have to recommend against “making use of” human milk.

                  This leaves us with definitions that are more complex than simply “making use of.” Every single applicable definition of “exploit” that’s more complex than “make use of” involves something to do with unfairness, lack of consent, or some other inequality.

                  Now that we’ve established the fact that human-derived foods can be vegan (and we have established that as a fact), we can safely say that human meat can be vegan, as long as the individual consents, is not being unfairly treated, and is giving their flesh of their own volition. You were wrong. It’s okay to be wrong, you can simply admit that your understanding was imperfect, and grow as an individual.

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    10 months ago

                    Every single applicable definition of “exploit” that’s more complex than “make use of” involves something to do with unfairness, lack of consent,

                    none of the definitions I’ve found mention consent or even allude to it.

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    10 months ago

                    You were wrong. It’s okay to be wrong, you can simply admit that your understanding was imperfect, and grow as an individual.

                    this is condescending. it is inappropriate conduct in this community.

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    10 months ago

                    human milk, in the context of breastfeeding, is vegan, as if it weren’t, they would necessarily recommend against it.

                    unless there were some other carveout that allowed the exception.

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    10 months ago

                    Not breastfeeding is possible and practicable thanks to plant-based formulas, yet they don’t recommend against it.

                    they may disagree with your assessment of practicability of not breastfeeding