This is stupid. So immensely stupid. Fly agaric is not something you should ever consume.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pzsy4oJidVg
Amanita apparently isn’t toxic: it was a different mushroom which created our “definition”, iirc.
It absolutely is toxic. The groups that are experimenting with it are taking very small doses. It basically contains a neurotoxin that’ll drop you into a coma fairly quick if you aren’t careful.
The Amanita genus contains some of the worlds most deadly mushrooms, like Amanita phalloides: The Death Cap mushroom.
I don’t want to discount medical uses for Amanita muscaria, in the slightest. People in Siberia have been using it for decades after all. There are even plenty of edibles you can get that contain it. However, the dosage needs to be heavily controlled.
For these products, its not the dosage as much as the bonus chemicals used in the mix.
Bonus points for mentioning Siberians using it! Thats one of the most likely origins for the north pole, red/white coloring for xmas myths
Not to mention the feeling of flight/weightlessness as a symptom of its effects — and the tradition of drying it on the boughs/sprays of pine trees it grows under being the source of the lighted Xmas tree tradition. 🤘🏽
First and foremost, amanita is not psychedelic. It’s like getting drunk but instead of getting belligerent and what have you, you get Alice in Wonderland syndrome. Heavier doses are a little bit more like alcohol and way too much diphenhydramine… Where it really shines though is when you use a responsible dose as a dream drug.
Secondly, most of the companies making these amanita products are putting research chemicals in their products. There’s no real way to know what you’re getting. Some of them put synthetic muscimol and ibotenic acid in them, which is also a problem as synthetic ibotenic acid is quite neurotoxic.
If you really want to go down the amanita route, just get the actual mushrooms or have a super reliable source. I personally am a huge fan but the effects are crazy sometimes and it’s seriously not for everyone.
“Psychedelic mushroom alternative”
I don’t recall the article claiming it was a psychedelic. They just claimed the LD50 is lower than fentanyl. Do you have evidence to the contrary? I’m not really sure which part of the article you’re trying to debunk or disagree with
The title
The title does not claim it is a psychedelic. I quoted the title. The article is about people using it as an alternative to psychedelic substances.
The title makes the claim that the LD50 is lower.
One wouldn’t be too foolish to assume that a “psychedelic mushroom alternative” would be psychedelic. Fact of the matter is, these mushrooms are not even close to a psychedelic and to advertise them as such is scam levels of misleading.
Furthermore, lately amanitas are being proven very useful for benzo withdrawal and recovery. Now, I do not disagree with knowing everything about a substance and the science behind it… But come on! They’re comparing it to fentanyl in the article! Things like that are only going to get them made illegal and stigmatized. This makes medical research harder to do and takes potential medicine away from the people who could actually use it!
Other than that, I was mostly just trying to give the people who clicked the thing some straight information. If they’re clicking the thing they’re likely already intrigued by it or psychedelics.
I wasn’t particularly intending to attack the article in any way other than the premise set by the title. I personally really enjoy amanitas but their effects aren’t exactly what most people are looking for.
It is compared to fentanyl because the lethal dose is lower. I’m still not hearing what you think is inaccurate here
I’m not having an argument about semantics with you. I am simply a lover of amanitas trying to spread information. Have a nice day or whatever the fuck.
Spreading misinformation, apparently? There’s no semantics in “lethal dosage”
The title makes the claim that the LD50 is lower.
The title:
Emerging Psychedelic Mushroom Alternative More Toxic Than Fentanyl, New Research Suggests
Does not make that claim. It is also written in a way that can be confused with saying that amanita is psychedelic. However, reading the article makes it easier to understand the word vomit of that title better.
That is exactly the claim the title is making? The LD50 is the entire point. What other metric could those words be referencing?
They’re referencing the study, but not making any specific claims in the title other than “people are using a psychedelic alternative mushroom that’s more toxic than fentanyl.”
It’s more toxic than fentanyl, yes… that’s the claim? I’m confused haha.
Are you saying the headline is not about toxicity?
This is such a misleading title.
“Calcium alternative ’cyanide’ highly toxic!”
Yeah, because it’s a completely different chemical.
“Housecat alternative ‘Siberian tiger’ highly dangerous!”
I’m fairly certain that any psilocybin containing mushroom isn’t poisonous. I could be very wrong, don’t take chances on some randos parroted fact.
Maybe don’t share random unverified information in the first place for the sake of community safety and responsibility.
No studied psilocybe species contains any dangerous amount of secondary toxins so far, but there are dozens of species that haven’t been tested thoroughly or specifically for secondary toxins, and we’re discovering new psilocybe species all the time, so sticking with the species we do know only contain psilocybin and psilocin is a lot safer then assuming anything about such a vast and growing group of fungi, especially when misidentification is so simple.
Heh. I did put a huge disclaimer in my post. Thanks for further clarifying the issue though, its appreciated. Mushrooms are pretty fascinating.
Haha, yeah but the disclaimer should go at the top.
I agree mushrooms are amazing. I’m pretty interested in how we’re going to take advantage of the material properties of mushrooms, seems like you can make pretty sturdy construction materials from them，woven fibers, styrofoam. I remember reading someone was working a mycoplastic, leather, tons of biomaterials.
Eat all the mushrooms?
I have always been surprised by the amazing human ability to find more and more new methods of killing themselves with the excuse of connecting with the cosmos.
I guess making people avoid fighting their own reality it’s a big business.
Business is business…
I assume you don’t have a lot of experience with psychedelics, based on the fact that you believe these substances help you avoiding reality. Part of the recently re-discovered, therapeutical properties of psychedelics are due to the fact that they make you face your realities (and their general effect on the default mode network, of course).
Also, A. muscaria has been used for thousands of years, e. g. very likely as part of the Vedic Soma, or as ingredient in Haoma in Iran. The use of the mushroom has also been documented in Siberia, where, if your beliefs align with Alice Beck Kehoe, the only “real” shamans are located.
This is not a new development.
That being said, the effects of A. muscaria are probably not what people would think of when they think about psychedelics. As such, I don’t believe the majority of users would believe they are “connecting with the cosmos” in the first place.
Edit: Marketing the product as psychedelic alternative under the guise of allowing consumers to “connect with the cosmos” is a completely (and despicable) beast, sure.
I still didn’t see why people need to consume these things, but anyway maybe some kind of “spiritual” stuff…
In you think about it spiritual stuff sometimes it’s just a way to avoid the reality.
LSD forced me to confront my traumatic experiences (I have a ptsd diagnosis). Did it have entheogenic effects? Yeah. But at the crux of the effect was an acute awareness of the reality I generally spend my life avoiding.
People shouldn’t like anything I don’t like!
Nothing spiritual about it for me… My psychedelic exploration phase is largely behind me these days, but it was never about spirituality for me, and as someone who abhors magical thinking, I never once believed it was anything more than chemical reactions in my brain.
Which is what I found far more fascinating… Particularly with LSD, how a dose weighed in micrograms that is expelled from you body completely, through your urine, within an hour or two, can set off a switch in your brain that will cause your to experience 8-12 hours of intense psychedelic visuals and mind fucks that truly cannot be expressed in words.
It sucks that you never felt that curiosity about your own brain and what it is actually capable of.
You should try a little acid (as a treat) and report back.
I don’t need it, anyway if someone want to try I can still sell it 🤣🤣
People also don’t need cheese or cake, and they have it anyway.
Exactly… business is business…
“I don’t know anything about the topic, but I have an opinion on it.”
That is perfectly fine, you do you.
However, if your mind is already set that way and you don’t want to expand your knowledge on the topic, there is nothing to be gained by simply expressing your disagreement and inability to understand another viewpoint - none of that benefits our discussion, and people may feel offended by the stubborn and quick dismissal of their stance.
That being said, spirituality is not a faith. Etymologically, we could argue that spirituality is closely related to religion, to Christianity even, and the desire to bridge the gap between man and god. That’s not how the term is typically used nowadays and would in fact confuse many people who are not aware of its original meaning.
It is absolutely possible to still interpret spirituality in a religious context, but it is no longer necessary to do so. Many people consider themselves to be non-religious or atheist and still express confidence and trust in spirituality. What spirituality means for these people should be defined on a case by case basis, but it can simply be about becoming a better person, finding ways to be content (or even happy) in life, or to find a greater, existential meaning. None of these things are necessarily connected to faith or any idea of a pantheon, salvation etc.
I do not know where you get your ideas about spirituality, about psychedelics etc., but I must say I find those views somewhat antiquated and maybe a bit hostile - they remind me a bit of the criticism the Hippie movement faced, and they’re certainly not overly nuanced. I can only implore you to try and find something positive in those things, something that speaks to you and that you can accept - you don’t have to agree with the conclusion, the lifestyle, or any individual aspect of it, but any time someone dismisses an entire field / movement / idea etc., it’s probably time to step back a bit and reconsider. I feel that should also be true for both psychedelics and spirituality.
Government: this thing you want is illegal
Media: new thing being used because old thing is illegal turns out to be way more dangerous
Government: this new thing is illegal
Media: new new thing being used because old new thing is illegal turns out to be way, way more dangerous
Government: surprised Pikachu face
