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This is one of the more surprising reversals in leftist opinion over the last ten years.
Leftists? I don’t think so. Progressives and liberals maybe, yes.
I mean, it’s not exactly a new opinion. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers should be frustrated, by force if necessary
it’s just quite shocking to me as a Canadian. But I can see the logic behind it.
There is none. It’s just people who would never do anything in real life acting tough on the internet.
look up “stochastic violence”
^ Prime example right there.
A prime example of what, genius? That makes no fucking sense in the context of the conversation.
I absolutely believe that giving guns to everybody is a really dumb idea. But if I was living in the present day US, I’d start stocking up on guns and ammo and practice shooting.
Maybe we can just pool together money and arm the unions. Imagine how hard mass-layoffs would be if unions had a missile launcher.
If it comes to the point when you need to use a gun to defend yourself, you’ve already lost. None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it. You can make a lot of things whole lot worse by introducing armed conflict to it, but nothing can be made better by it. If I was a conspiratorial type, I would say that making the left gun-happy is a psyop by fascists, because there is very little things is as dangerous to a healthy society as the ubiquity of guns, and fasch can’t thrive in a healthy society.
If it comes to the point when you need to use a gun to defend yourself, you’ve already lost.
Did you miss the bit where people are being ICEd?
They’ve already lost.This country is already lost.
Not a single person in a position of power is willing to dethrone the oligarchs, it will only be done through violence.
Either these are the tools that will change things, or the tools that will tak out as many of the enemy as possible before they kill you.
None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it.
Wrong.
Fascism is here. It is not an existential threat. And fascism always has to be responded to with force. Fascists do not respond to politely phrased requests or democratic elections.
You can make a lot of things whole lot worse by introducing armed conflict to it, but nothing can be made better by it.
Are you unaware of WW2?
there is very little things is as dangerous to a healthy society as the ubiquity of guns
This isn’t a healthy society.
I think you’re misunderstanding what existential means.
An existential threat refers to a danger that could potentially lead to the extinction of humanity or drastically reduce our long-term potential. Common examples include nuclear war, severe climate change, and pandemics.
None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it
I think we are referring to other humans with guns, which can in fact be solved by shooting them. In fact, that’s SOP for SWAT, who are the kind of people you want well-armed … assuming you also have an inclusive, pluralistic, liberal democracy to govern them.
Root cause here is cultural. US needs denazification, according to the original pre-Putin definition of the word, exact same way post-WWII German society became… an inclusive, pluralistic, liberal democracy
Doesn’t seem to matter which side, both ignore that whole inconvenient militia part.
That’s not what it means. The militia part is the reason why they wrote the 2nd amendment. The People is who it’s for.
It’s always been the case that if you go left far enough you get your guns back.
It’s true.
But you have to respond to fascism with force.
So it’s a necessary reversal.
If we lived in a better society we wouldn’t need to have reversed on this topic and we’d still be trying to reduce the number of firearms. But we live in a stupid society that forces us to have to arm ourselves. That’s the current reality.
it’s almost like people change their stances on things depending on the situation
healthy country? kids shouldn’t have easy access to guns
whatever the fuck is going on right now in the us? give everybody a gun without question and let’s see how it plays out. can’t be worse than an authoritarian government
Liberals aren’t leftists.
I’m aware, and I still believe this is a change in leftist opinion.
Are there any resources for getting started?
Find a local gun store, tell them you’re new and want to learn. If they’re not in your face with MAGA, they’re probably alright. Depending on where you live, you may or may not be able to be discerning with your choice. Most gun stores are gonna lean right. They’re not really gonna side with groups that want to reduce their business.
I don’t like reddit anymore, but there’s /r/liberalgunowners. I’d suggest taking a safety course, then renting at the range, and then buying what you think you need/ like.
$4k?? No fuckin way lol. You can buy a glock or even an AR for under $500 right now. 500 rounds of 9mm for the glock is $150 or 1000 rounds of .556 is $450. $50 for a couple hours at the range with a friend that can show you the ropes.
This is CA, including the course and all the bells and whistles. My glock was 1k alone. We’re limited to the gen3 glock due to the California roster, and it’s still expensive (mostly paperwork).
Edit: My bad, I also included ccw in my head.
I just moved from CA, and yeah CCW adds a lot (if you even live somewhere you can realistically get one). $1k for a Glock is crazy town, man. Even at the beginning of covid they weren’t that much.
Nah, for sure. I believe it was about $500 originally, but after shipping, taxes, background check, other fees, etc… about 1k. Half the price was paperwork. That was about 8 years ago? I’m not sure if the gen3 became more available. I know the shield is pretty cheap.
I hope you enjoy your move!
Thanks! Moved for family reasons, and very much miss California. It’s not without benefits though, at least when it comes to firearms. I can mail order ammo without any kind of license, and I can 3d print my own guns if I so choose. Nice that this state also recognizes my CA CCW.
Seconded on the safety course. Ask all your questions then, too.
It’s worth mentioning that you should try out a few options before going with the first gun you try. My spread went down by half in a day just by finding the one that fit my hand right.
And lastly, stay in practice. Like anything, if you don’t do it for a while, your skill will plummet. The last thing you want do is try to remember the fundamentals in a life or death situation.
Yup. In a stressful situation, you fall back on muscle memory.
Yeah armed resistance is working out great in Gaza, right?
Most times armed resistance movements are just about giving power to violent leaders. And those violent leaders of resistance movements go on to become oppressors if they ever gain power.
The lower left picture (and other knowledge of the groups) makes me think that the upcoming resistance will be led by trans and furry hackers/coders, etc. I hope they can organize. How sick would that be if they’re the ones responsible for taking down the fascists.
Nope, I’m a lifelong anti-gun authoritarian.
Good people will hesitate to shoot, an armed society just puts the worst group in charge because they don’t care about killing.
The Black Panther Party would “politely” disagree with you. While armed to the teeth.
Tw’ain’t no white racists trying to pick on black people when the Panthers were around.
Edit: Oh yeah, and J. Edgar Hoover labelled this group as a national security threat, so it has that going for it as well.
Your edit seems to contradict your comment, the most violent group did get rid of them
And do you suppose that their extermination was hastened or hindered by the fact that members were armed?
Did you just call yourself an authoritarian?
Armed minors you say?
“Won’t someone think of the children?”
Can’t do it, my brain is bad
Learn to fly drones instead!
It takes a lot to realize that and exercise that restraint. You’re a good egg. With that being said, a paintball gun would have a low chance of self-harm, but they make coyote urine balls that smell terrible on impact. Just saying.
And pepper balls, and jawbreakers.
I’ll just point out that showing up to a hypothetical gun battle with only paint (or even pepper balls) is a bad idea. Cops and other criminals will undoubtedly act as if you’re holding a firearm anyway, even though you aren’t, and their guns can do unto you while you can’t do unto them. Tread wisely.
A kid in my old high school froze the pain balls and shot them at a dance.
They’re also about the size of marbles in some cases.
No need. These days you can get the aforementioned “jawbreakers,” which are solid plastic or aluminum .68 caliber balls specifically designed for paintball gun use and what for to cause havoc. Unlike frozen paintballs they’re shelf stable.
Genuine question, how exactly do you picture this playing out? Let’s say you are a homosexual married person in the US, and the right for gay marriage is overturned. Now what? How is a gun going to help you? When someone tells you “actually you’re not married anymore” just shoot them? What is the plan here?
You’re sincerely confused? It’s clear you have no background in anything military or perhaps even psychology. It’s power-projection. You’ve become so conditioned to believe that power-projection is only used as a tool of oppression that you’re overlooking the fact that it’s better to point guns than it is to face guns, and it’s certainly worse to face guns without one to point back. Would you rather cede power to those who desire it than support empowering those who would wield it to protect your right to exists? You want to exist in an ideal world? Be willing to fight for it – the ones who wish to oppress others are certainly willing to use violence to achieve their means. Once you’ve claimed victory over violent oppression, then you can set the guns aside and build a society around the flimsy concept of a disarmed society. Guns are still tools and have uses outside of violence, but that’s outside the scope of the point I’m making.
PSA: WHEN YOUR LIFE IS THREATENED BY MASKED THUGS, PLEASE DO NOT RESIST. JUST DO WHAT THEY SAY AND QUIETLY DISAPPEAR. DO NOT MAKE THE FASCISTS KNOW FEAR. REMAIN HARMLESS.
I DO NOT WISH TO SEE ANYTHING THAT THREATENS MY COMFORT OR PRIVILEGE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION ON THIS MATTER.
Yup, I’m a lifelong filthy anti-gun liberal.
Can’t be anymore.
It’s time to get armed. Wish it wasn’t, but the writing is on the wall. If Americans want to go on blowing each other’s heads off and having endless school shootings, well, that’s better than living under fascism, which is here, now.
Gonna be a lot harder for them to do what they want if we’re all packing.
i aint ever seen police shoot tear gas at armed protesters. they left those black panthers alone.
they left those black panthers alone.
I hope this is sarcasm.
It’s gotta be right? Like, they were heros and they got things done but the Black Panthers didn’t get left alone. They got wiped out. Police don’t like being policed.
I suggest you watch these 3 videos in sequence and in full (assuming you have the attention-span for it):
guns part 1 (technicalities)
guns part 2 (failed laws)
guns part 3 (possible solutions)
especially if you’re non-US.Knew it was Beau before I even clicked on it. Great little video series he did back then!
“Only 3 kinds of people in the world: pro-gun, anti-gun and those who actually know how firearms work.”
I miss that man. His wife is doing a great job though.
She doesn’t do it for me the way Beau did! She’s not bad, she just has a different way of delivering things that I don’t enjoy as much.
Spent the weekend on private land blowing through thousands of rounds with my AR, Glock, and 20 caliber. I suggest everyone start going to the shooting range and get acclimated to your guns. It will be necessary soon enough. I believe that.
I did the same with a buddy that just got his first pistol, which is believe he did due to the times. I hadn’t had my guns out to shoot since pre-pandemic, it was a good time to make sure everything is clean, lubed, and in working order.
Hell ya! Tell him welcome to the club! I need to take my 30-30 and 30.6 with me next time to train some folks on long distance shooting. My shoulders bruised up from firing 30 round clips in a few seconds tho. Too much fun on private land.
At a minim getting fit. Ideally when doing some boxing. Good work out and confidence building.
Surprised this group hasn’t been mentioned. I have known, and been friends with, several members.
Removed by mod
If guns were the solution to minority oppression then the US would be the least oppressive place in the world.
Checks notes Apparently guns don’t help, but please do tell that to the 50,000 Americans we lose every year to gun violence.
That is right every year we lose more citizens than a major conflict and that is just “normal” apparently.
Doesn’t matter. Fascism is here. Time to get armed.
Facts don’t matter? sound pretty fascist to me.
Besides, fascism has always been here. Anything else requires drinking copious amounts of Kool-Aid.
You want to complain to the manager of the fascists? Maybe this will get them to stop what they’re doing? Also, if you’re going to argue a point in good faith… at least don’t make it seem like we should accept fascism just because it’s kind of always been around.
I absolutely detest fascism, but I also recognize that the US has always been fascist from the very start. Not only that, but the US is also the chief exporter of fascism having toppled 75 countries during the Cold War alone. It helps put things in perspective.
Your detesting of fascism doesn’t stop violent fascists from killing or seizing power.
You have to actually know your enemy to fight it. Saying the US is turning fascist is nonsensical.
You seem to be stuck in a nasty state of cognitive dissonance.
“Saying the US is turning fascist is nonsensical.” – Are you sure you want to stand by this statement?
You serve no purpose in your conversations other than to try to garner support for your paranoia. I notice how quick you are to point at problems, and how you have yet to offer any solutions or propose any alternatives. Nobody should engage you in any meaningful conversation for which you appear to be unable to engage in good faith. You also said this.
“Saying the US is turning fascist is nonsensical.” - Doomsider
Now stand by your words and explain to everyone why you’re not wrong without changing the subject and spouting about some vaguely related historical fact to obfuscate. Eat Crow, Doomsider.
I can support my statement with facts. All you have is feelings apparently. Cheers!
You’ve lost the narrative. Nobody cares what you think anymore, if they ever did. You enjoy the taste of boot leather with a sanctimonious superiority fetish. This is what you are.
I could care less about what a mentally ill wannabe fascist thinks about me. Haters gonna hate.
Since you’re not messaging me, anymore, I just want you to know that I think it’s really sweet of you to be able to care less for me. You’ve set our differences aside and become a better person than you were before. That’s what life is all about.
You’re a fascist apologist. That’s a fact. For the record, so everyone here knows what you are: Do you or do you not support using violence against violent fascists?
As I suspected, you just want to murder people just like the fascists you hate. YouAreLiterallyaFascist!
Answer the question. Don’t make it about me.
Man, sure is quiet here. He responded to me elsewhere, however… but not here. Fuckin’ crickets are loud, though.
The only gun control in the US is a result of the Black Panthers
The government is afraid of vulnerable minorities owning guns
There are more guns than every man, women, child, and baby in the US.
And no the only gun control is not related to the black panthers. There was some California gun control related to it though. It was the Mulford Act.
Are you really this ignorant of US history or are you intentionally trying to mislead people?
It is simple not all gun control is related to the Black Panthers. You implied it was. Why are you trying to mislead people?
Anyone that is unfortunate enough to stumble into this mess, please review all the conversations between Doomsider and myself. You will find he is either a bot, troll, or astroturfing. He refuses to take any stand on any matter and will only attack, deny, or accuse. He has no principles. Please ignore him and preferably, block him.
I would definitely recommend blocking this guy. He is a wanna be troll baiter. I don’t mind having conversations, but it is clear this character is a political hack with a lot of rage and no answers.
I agree. That way I can continue my work against fascist apologists without interference from other fascist apologists.
Banning attachments isn’t gun control.
Changing the rules on who is allowed to own guns is.
Keep pedanticly supporting fascism it’s a great look.
GCA and NFA are not related to the Black Panthers. It is clear you are very wrong, but that is okay.
Fascism is what brought more guns than people to my country. We lose 50k civilians every year to gun violence and you could care less. Don’t even try to lecture me.
Banning stuff isn’t control. Got it. 👍
If it doesn’t prevent you from getting a gun and shooting someone with it then no, it isn’t a restriction or control in a meaningful way.
Thanks for giving me another pedant to block tho
I don’t see people in the US being dragged off for posting memes or engaging in wrongthink. Not yet anyway.
The US is FAR less oppressive than places like the UK and Canada.
They literally dragged off university students for protesting Isreal, and then the President threatened states that boycott Israel. You are completely wrong on the first point.
The US locks up more people than anywhere else in the world. I think you are not critically examining these issues and instead are going off of years of propaganda you have been spoon fed.
Ok, now tell me what actually happened and not the Democrat narrative.
Also the US locks up more people than anyone else in the world because we have a much larger population than almost everyone in the world. We also have a major crime problems stemming from a culture that glorified criminal activity.
We also have a major crime problems stemming from a culture that glorified criminal activity.
Like having a pedophile rapist president with a fully loaded pedophile rapist cabinet?
I am not part of the Democratic Party so I am not sure what their perspective is. My perspective is wealthy people are controlling the messaging around Palestine. The reason they effectively shut down all college protests is to control the narrative.
This is like pro-active propaganda where you confront a problem before it becomes one. Fox News is great at this with talking heads creating the narrative to stories before they are even broken. Thus inoculating their viewers from outside opinions before they even hear them.
You are outright wrong about your analysis of our prison system. We only account for 4% of the world’s population but 20% of the world’s prison population.
We have a major problem with locking people up, that is for sure.
My perspective is that you’re obfuscating from real solutions and distracting people with perceived problems. You have nothing of value to offer any debate or conversation. If we every want to know what’s wrong with the world, you’re an endless list. Ask you to take a stand on any given solution and you shut down. Why don’t you have any principles, Doomsider? Instead of telling people what we shouldn’t be doing… why don’t you let us all know what you think we should be doing?
Well, your perspective is just shit then I guess.
The only person who has offered up no insight or facts is you. I mean you really are coming off as pathetic at this point.
I will offer you this, as I can already tell you haven’t learned any lessons from history.
You think the way to fight fascism is with violence, or perhaps more specifically to fight fascist violence with violence. This is unfortunately propaganda you have come to believe.
The crux of your belief system is probably informed by WWII and the defeat of the Nazi empire through violence. The problem is it is not all that it seems and fascism was not defeated in WWII. In fact, the Fascist country that helped to create the Nazi empire was also the one that helped end it.
Wealthy people in the US funded the Nazi party and then made sure there was no escape for the Jews. If the US was the good guy and not fascist then why did they do this? Why did US corporations help the Nazi empire?
Why did the US welcome all the Nazi scientists with open arms? Why did we continue to practice eugenics if Nazism was bad?
This is the problem of thinking a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun. The truth in this situation and most others is there is no good guy.
You seem to miss the point of discussion. Instead of listening, you just have to be right. I am not joking when I say that you seem fascist yourself. You really do believe your ideology will somehow take hold after all the dusts settles. Just like every other fascist.
You’re a feckless coward and fascist apologist. Do you or do you not support using violence against violent fascists? Not me. You.
Well they are getting to it. Be patient!
The US is FAR less oppressive than places like the UK and Canada.
Hilariously false
Hilariously true. Call Trump whatever you want and you can’t be touched. Oppose the ruling regime in the UK and they send the police after you.
Hilariously untrue. You get that people ain’t free in the USA right?
In your mind it’s far less oppressive. You clearly really have no idea.
People claim to be “oppressed” as the government passes special laws to protect them and put their flags out everywhere. In your mind you’re oppressed.
