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It stinks.
Does it count as patriotism if you think your country kind of sucks and want to improve it? I suppose many rightwingers are convinced that they are doing exactly that, if only it were actually true …
That’s exactly why I’m asking. What patriotism is or should be, I can’t answer, but I can say that what the self-proclaimed patriots in America are doing atm seems to me like the opposite of what this this strange concept should be about, because they are helping to cement an oligarchy - and that can’t be in the interests of US citizens.
Edit: Just to be clear: If you are a US citizen and disagree with the administration’s policies, I would consider you a patriot – but I am probably the worst person to ask about this.
in America at least the right wing can’t create so they co-opt the meanings of others
‘Patriot’ used to have a positive connotation, say before the 1950s
Conservatives changed that by committing mountains of morally corrupt actions under the name of ‘Patriotism’, and used it as a weapon to silence and jail their political opposition during McCarthyism
Nowadays people who are actually concerned about the political direction of our country generally do not appreciate the label ‘patriot’ for what the conservatives have used it for
No, that’s just having a strong sense of community
The difference is you aren’t blinded to the flaws that need to be fixed
A ‘patriot’ will insist that American is the perfectbest and awesome and has zero flaws and if you insist there are flaws then you must be a damn communist and it is their moral duty to oppose everything you suggest for change
And it’s fucking our country so bad that we won’t be a world power in 20 years
And it’s fucking our country so bad that we won’t be a world power in 20 years
Unfortunately, I very much doubt that. Look at Russia, it’s even worse than the USA AND has a far worse economy, yet it’s still a major power.
I would sincerely love to talk about the dynamics of America’s collapse as it is a special interest of mine, but this is lemmy and no rational discussion survives for more than 10 minutes so please understand when I make this statement, I’m not having a discussion. I am making a point, and ignoring all replies to it.
The difference between America and the U.S.S.R.'s collapse is that the majority of manufacturing, data infrastructure, wealth, trade ports, and cultural cultural centers are in overwhelmingly blue areas which have access to their own military and militias. The fascists won’t be getting the whole country, they won’t even be getting the good parts of the country either. When it comes to outside aid as well, blue areas have the advantage as the two biggest salt water ports in the nation are in strongly blue zones, and I guarantee the fascists won’t be getting aid from most of Europe. We saved a lot of countries and now they know it’ll be time to pay that back.
It will be bloody and senseless and will last around ten years. And I hope to fuck this time they don’t fumble fucking Reconciliation. All traitors must hang or we will just get another crop next year.
And this could ALL have been prevented if you fuckers had just handled Gamergate for the joke like it was instead of catapulting it to international consciousness. If you want to know where all the MAGA rats came from, and where they learned to manipulate media? Bannon and his assholes cut their teeth on Gamergate and now we have fascism
The fucking hilarious part is that all of you coming after who will argue this obvious point because you are bored and like to see yourselves type.
It can be a useful political tool in the imperial periphery when used correctly. In the imperial core it is a tool of oppression.
Hate to break it to you buddy but those pithy words were created before militaries could deploy anywhere worldwide within nine hours
EVERYTHING is periphery nowadays, I figured 9/11 clued everyone in on that
And it’s still a tool of oppression
The US is not an imperial periphery. Being attacked doesn’t make you periphery. Idk where you got that idea. These terms are primarily in regard to economic relations
No, it is armchair wiki scholar talk ripped from the Romans like some freaking 40k fanboy.
It’s not even a good comparison as an economic metaphor as in modern markets there is no geographical center
Just face it, you wanted to sound wise and it fell flat so now you’re moving the goalposts. Fucking typical
Its actually just part of my vocabulary because I exist in spaces that use it often. Its integral to world systems theory. I never moved the goalpost, for me it was always an economic term. It seems we may have different definition of imperial core and imperial periphery. What does it mean in the Roman context? How are you understanding it?
Do you ever get tired of being so hollow? Of all the time you take to convince others that there’s something going on inside? Everything you write is bullshit but it is an eager and desperate bullshit begging for acknowledgment and I am ashamed I fell for it.
Enjoy your block
I genuinely can’t fathom how I made you that angry. I guess the username checks out but honestly it just makes me sad :/
This is a good commentary on it:
It’s good to want to improve the world around you, which can be given a label of patriotism. Going too far down that road leads to lots of unhappiness, though.
arbitrary bullshit, we’re just picking which words to like and dislike now. neither of those words mean what that comic says
In the long run it’s dumb and cringe.
Source: I’m American and old.
It’s a coping mechanism that gives people who achieved nothing in their life something to brag about
Fucking thank you, this is so much more concise than what I wrote and encapsulates it fully
like sports clubs but a bit deadlier
Some of my life-achievements involved contributing to my nation.
Ok, good, that’s you, a productive citizen following the social contract
BUT
Most people who wear the flag and shout that they are patriots have been nothing but leeches on the nation
Good for you man, but in this case I guess that you’re proud of yourself and in the achievements that helped the people around you.
You don’t have “second hand pride with extra narrative on top” from people that died long before you were bornYou don’t have “second hand pride with extra narrative on top” from people that died long before you were born
The individualists in this thread are saying:
- Your personal conduct didn’t form your nation
- And personal conduct is the only valid source of pride
- Therefore you can’t be proud of your nation
And I don’t agree with the 2nd premise at all. People are social beings and there’s lots of examples of collective pride.
Every single person on the planet just happened to be born in some particular place, and every place has some particular set of people who at some point drew some arbitrary lines and decreed that the area within the lines was a country and gave it a name.
The idea that happening to have been born within the confines of one arbitrary set of lines rather than another is something of which to be proud is blatantly stupid.
The philosophy behind that is that only individual choices matter.
What you’re saying is logical, but only if you’re on-board with an individualist worldview to start.
You can be proud of your community and others you identify with without putting that pride on arbitrary bounds of organization regardless of how the organization is ran.
ridiculous and unproductive navel gazing, the basic unit of human consciousness is the individual
If we were a hivemind species your vapid dilletance might be valid but I really don’t see a purpose in theoretical psychology.
indubitably
Is that literally all you can bring? I thought we were having a discussion here…
Most people don’t take it as a cultural dogma that the individual is the be-all-and-end-all
If you’re an angry autist with that cultural dogma, I’m not gonna try talk you out if it. Most people find it easy to be proud of their ancestors or family or country.
Wait, you think I’m a patriot? Media literacy is fucking dead…
It’s hard to comment on the flavors of national pride in nations other than the one I live in, but I think if you’re an American patriot, you either 1) are proud of horrendous, immoral things, 2) are proud of a mythologized nation-state that stands for liberty and justice which never actually existed.
all patriotism is tribalism: i.e. undeserved vicarious pride in accomplishments one had no part in achieving
Like sports clubs, but deadlier
And they are all based on lies because every nation was founded in a bloodbath
Eh, I’m proud to be an American. But I also generally like the people around me, and when I think of “Americans”, I think of my friends who I like. I’d also note that I’m pretty proud to be a Coloradan. Our state government kicks ass!
I like it in an unintelligent sentimental way.
Pride, no prejudice
I don’t attribute anthropomorphism to a country. Improve your environment(mental/physical/emotional), help others; systems of government can come and go.
Id rather be happy than loyal to a fault.
anthropomorphism /ăn″thrə-pə-môr′fĭz″əm/
noun
Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.
The representation of the Deity, or of a polytheistic deity, under a human form, or with human attributes and affections.
The ascription of human characteristics to things not human.
I quite like regionalism that doesn’t align with national borders. An example would be “limburgers” have a strong shared identity, even as parts of it lie in Belgium, and parts of it lie in the Netherlands.
Fundamentally it comes down to this question, I think: people tend to like to be around people that’ve shared a same background, is that’s ok? And to what degree?
Tribalism is tribalism whether or not they reach national borders
The only reason you think they are ‘cute’ is that they don’t have military power
Give the Limburgers a military that can compete on the world stage and in a few years they would be just the same as any other nationalist power
Every tribe gains military power when I’m a member.
My question to hardcore patriots: Why the hell are you so hyped over a place? Especially a place that is governed like dogshit?
I have no idea who Doug Stanhope is but I like this quote:
Nationalism does nothing but teach you to hate people you never met, and to take pride in accomplishments you had no part in.
