im so sick of seeing reports regarding men posting in women-only communities and i cant help but get annoyed with these guys.
the rules are clearly presented. either youre not paying attention or youre just an asshole who purposefully throws their opinion in a place explicitly not wanting it.
what the fuck is wrong with you guys?
Mod notice: semi-controversial but serious question has been raised about an actual issue. Keep it civil and stay classy.
If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. Or at least be tastefully funny about it.
Thanks for providing a great reason to leave this community.
The OP has been hostile in the comments, and in their OP, violating Rule 1, and Rule 5.
Do better.
OK, I pulled out a computer for you so I could see the rules side by side with my post because my mobile client doesn’t allow it.
Rule 1: Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here.
OP came in swinging hot, maybe a little toxic, but there are valid points behind the hot words.
However, OP has shown that they are able to accept other viewpoints from valid arguments (https://lemmy.ca/post/48960508/18080134). So I would argue this is borderline.
I have to say, I have no idea what sealioning is though.
Rule 5: This is not a support community.
It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
This isn’t a “How do I”. This is an open ended attempt (with some frustration) to try to under why members of the community do certain things.
That’s my view anyway. What’s yours?
This is an open ended attempt (with some frustration) to try to under why members of the community do certain things.
I am fine with not commenting in women-only spaces, but that is very much not what OP is trying to do. OP is venting and using a rhetorical question they don’t seem to particularly want an answer to. Is that “requesting support?” Does that extend to emotional/moral support?
I think if the OP is complaining about not following the rules and spirit of a community when posting, it seems appropriate to point out if they are violating the rules (and spirit) of the community they post it in.
I shared my view and left the community. Was something about my comment unclear?
I didn’t see why it was a clear violation of rule 5. I was wondering why you thought it was
“Cite sources of your claim, prove it, and spend ages providing material that I will dismiss as irrelevant!”.
The name comes from this comic:
Sparrohawcs explanation is also a pretty good one.
Sealioning is when someone pretends to be ‘just asking questions’ in good faith in an attempt to sow discord in a community.
Fuckin’ hate that Kareny lickspittle bullshit. 🤌🏼
Thanks for providing a great reason to leave this community.
It’s not an airport. You don’t need to announce your departure.
Also, I’ve always been a bit skeptical when someone decides to leave a community because they don’t like a post and/or poster. As if they represent the totality of the sub.
It’s not an airport. You don’t need to announce your departure.
I know.
I did it because I wanted to share my point of view, like you have done here. Both of which are admittedly pointless and time wasting endeavors.
Also, I’ve always been a bit skeptical when someone decides to leave a community because they don’t like a post and/or poster. As if they represent the totality of the sub.
It is not about the post or poster, it is about the lack of action from mods in regards to the post or poster. Which is a constant problem in this community that I have noticed, and a good reason to leave it.
I find it funny that you care so much, so thank you for that.
Would be nice if Lemmy had a way to limit posting and commenting to subscribers. That should at least stop accidental comments while keeping visibility.
Not for me, because I’m aubscribed because I’m curious and might want to share interesting threads with my wife.
Anyways, brb making a feature request.
i like that idea!
alternatively, a simple rule notification during commenting would suffice… a popup or inline banner with verbiage specific to the community
Why the hell SOME women can’t stop generalizing men’s behaviour?
What the fuck is wrong with you, guys?
irrelevant. its none of your business what they converse amongst themselves
are you one of the people doing this or should you have just stfu to start with as you have no actual information to contribute?
I’m not standing up for Lembot’s motivations, I don’t know Lembot. But their comment on its own was pointing to a perception of your “What the fuck is wrong with you” remark generalizing intrusive behavior to all men, rather than just the intrusive men.
I kinda feel like you are intentionally missing the point of the feedback you are getting and pretending like any pushback you get is related to your one specific grievance despite people being pretty clear about what they are saying.
I worry about what incels write about women in incel forums. It can lead to horrible behavior outside those forums.
If the community is private you might have a point, but there are very public women’s only communities on this platform who’s conversations show up in the aggregate feeds–that’s not just “conversing amongst themselves.”
The recent tea app debacle shows you are quite wrong about that.
This I disagree with, as it’s an open community.
It’s read only to men.
Honestly the varied mobile platforms don’t always present the channel/groups rules in advance. Especially if one is just browsing trending topics. There can potentially be no way for some users to be informed enough before they see a topic they want to interact with.
Best solution I found for similar issue is polite advisement of the rules via dm or other preferred method and helping them learn and have better internet etiquette.
Calling folks out publicly can get alot of negative associations with it as well which might end with you group on the wrong end of a troll.
It’s very often right in the title, AND the description, yet filled with men’s comments.
Nope. To be clear, the rules are not in the titles of most posts or the community name.
Yup, this is it for me. I blocked womenstuff, mostly so that they wouldn’t have to deal with me stumbling in from sorting all by new.
valid points!
Personally, I block pretty much all exclusionary communities for a few reasons:
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I frequently do not see the community name before looking at a thread and finding something interesting to converse on, partly because of my neurodivergences. This leads to breaking rules without intending to. Safer to block.
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I sometimes have experienced RSD as a symptom of my neurodivergences and thus intentionally take action to prevent it.
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I value inclusivity and anarchic social organization as fundamental parts of my ethical framework and find social exclusion based upon a person’s immutable traits incredibly offensive (the intensity of this is definitely related to my neurodivergences as well).
This is not to say that I don’t believe that women deserve a space where they have control and agency, especially with the immense amounts of misogyny on the Internet and meatspace. Nor do they need to consider my feelings nor any other man’s when deciding their rules and whether to be inclusive or exclusive.
I do, however, think that the hard-line exclusionary practices diminish the perspective, both for the participants and for men who could definitely use the insights into the bullshit that women have to continue to deal with. Lots of missed opportunity to build understanding and strengthen allyship. It also makes it easier for toxic exclusionary ideologies, like TERFs to take root (every group excluded makes it easier to excuse excluding another) while also preventing people who have not discovered their feminine gender identities from participating in conversation with other women in ways that could help them to uncover important things about themselves.
Anyway, enjoy and I hope that you find your space helpful to you, regardless of what myself out any other man feels about it. If the community does become inclusive, I’d definitely like to to know so that I can unblock it.
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Say I’m a trans female. Can I post then? Trans man? Gay man? Gay woman?
It’s self policing. If they’re being obnoxious or killing the environment or culture of the space, downvote/block/report and move on.
the rules are obvious, and trans inclusive.
if it wasnt for the sheer volume of [presumed] idiots who cant seem to follow those rules i wouldnt have posted. the points is the reports and heavy moderation required.
its like digital mansplaining
So you decide to ragepost in a different community that had nothing to do with it? This community is for asking questions, and it’s pretty clear you’re just phrasing things as a question so you can rage and troll without getting the boot
“Why the hell can’t blacks stay out of white only spaces”
this says more about you than the original topic
Don’t like what you see in the mirror?
purple!
not sure how tossing irrelevant info matter, but there ya go!
I know you edited your post, which still has things I think are wrong, but OP is absolutely correct based on your initial post… JS
My edit was only adding the 2nd paragraph. And no, it is not wrong and the OP is not correct
A few points:
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It could be a mistake, but adding context without labeling it as an addition or an edit changes the view of the discourse that has already been made
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You once again flipped the discriminatory group and the group discriminatory against which is at best a misunderstanding and at worse malicious
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You are STILL wrong and are mansplaining. You don’t need to insert yourself into women’s discourse. You are literally the type of person women’s only spaces are built to protect against. While yes, help from those who are not discriminated against definitely help the discriminated, that help comes in listening to what they have to say and support. Your expressed viewpoint is more or less: “I am very important and you should hear what I have to say because it is helpful”. You are, intentionally or not, giving subtle hints that you are better than women and that’s why you should be allowed to force your way into their discourse. In this day and age, we call that sexism.
Maybe that’s not your intention, but boy your writing is full of red flags
giving subtle hints that you are better than women
Go ahead and point out these “subtle hints” that I’m better than women.
In this day and age, we call that sexism.
Yeah, that’s not what sexism means.
You said in your edit: Men are relevant and important to addressing women’s issues.
That’s it.
And per merriam webster:
prejudice or discrimination based on sex Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexism
Your statement in and itself, shows prejudice based on sex.
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This is a false equivalency, my dude. There are definitely good reasons for people who generally face systemic discrimination (ie. Women, black people) to have separate communities from those they face discrimination from (men, white people). It’s not like they are trying to divorce themselves from society at large.
Why not have a community of people that are against this discrimination, rather than just having the targets of it? I feel like it doesn’t really help…
And anyways, pleading your cause publicly will always be better imo. Better to avoid confirmation bias and other bs
the rules are clearly presented. either youre not paying attention or youre just an asshole who purposefully throws their opinion in a place explicitly not wanting it.
what the fuck is wrong with you guys?
The same as with those women wanting to get in this men space? I wonder…
More seriously, you ask a legit question (as it would be legit if it was a man asking why some women so badly want to join in men-only spaces), a question that could trigger an interesting discussion, but why does it have to be so fucking angry? (See how poorly it passes?)
Based on the comments here and in the previous similar post I have seen, the vast, vast majority of people (presumably men) highlight how this is a problem of visibility of posts in public feeds.
It’s a tradeoff between having the community public for discoverability and accepting that many people will not check the rules and violate them, some inadvertently.
The alternative is to make the community private, and accept that women will need to discover a women-relates community by searching for “women”, which doesn’t seem incredibly unlikely.
From the sentiments I read, most people wouldn’t care at all if the community was private and wouldn’t have a desire to “invade” it. I definitely feel part of this group.
Considering that it’s in the interest of the community (apparently) to have only women, I think it’s fair to expect the (minimal) effort from future members to look for it (plus advertising it in posts etc.) on them instead of expecting the vast majority of the users (the fediverse is mostly males) to add friction and having to check the rules of every single community of every post they open (now it might be a community, more might come). Yes, community rules are important, but being realistic, if you don’t behave like an asshole you don’t need to worry about them in 99% of the times.
However, if this tradeoff is not deemed acceptable, I think there is no point complaining about people “invading” women spaces because it’s guaranteed that many people will comment without reading the rules, as I am sure the almost totality of users does all the time. Even without counting the ones who intentionally violate the rule, there is always going to be an organic amount of people who will do so inadvertently.
At this point I think the tradeoff is so clear, that discussing the topic in such a confrontational way looks more like rage-bait than anything aimed at solving the problem.
the rules are clearly presented
I use Voyager. Community rules are hidden unless you specifically go to that community page, open the menu, and select “sidebar”. It’s incredibly easy to miss.
If a community only wants some people posting then a quick fix it to not allow just anyone to post to it.
I think generally if somebody does this genuinely they are politely told the rules but then some feel hard done by and start whining about it.
People in general want to be included and some even more so when they’re told they’re not allowed in.
It’s easy when it’s a physical space, ropes and security keep the riff raff out. With online spaces, it requires active moderation, mods who are willing to enforce the rules and ban those that violate them.
It’s not immediately obvious when it appears in your feed, I also don’t think people expect to be excluded due to protected characteristics. I know I wouldn’t have expected a community to discriminate.
Something about a women only space triggers people. Just look at the people replying here. They can’t seem to help themselves.
Something about a “group” only space will trigger me regardless.
Do you have examples of women only communities? Because I have probably inadvertently done so. Admittedly, I probably also haven’t read the rules as my mobile client makes that stuff kind of hidden.
I love the posts that come out witchesvspatriachy for example. That’s definitely female dominated, but I didn’t read the rules because, well, they didn’t show up in the all feed, so I don’t know if I shouldn’t post.
I also think it’s good to get some outside opinion, occasionally, but female spaces need to remain female dominated for good reason.
/me shrugs. Sorry if I’ve been the point of your annoyance
Is this about the public community, Women’s stuff, federated on the public fediverse who’s posts get aggregated to the public all feed and which is accessed by a diverse set of software solutions that may or may not force the community rules to be visible before viewing post content?
I try not to engage cause I know about the community, but golly, I can’t imagine how a man might stumble upon that and interact.
I saw a post, added a relevant wiki link, and then my comment was deleted, and that’s fair enough as I didn’t read the rules beforehand.
To reduce the constant barrage of mansplaining :-) I suggest adding a sticky top level comment (or something better), or some sort of filter before a comment is added if possible.
Or set the public instance to public discussion about women’s stuff and set up a private instance with a women’s only application process that is advertised on the public instance.
There’s value in women’s only spaces, and there’s value in spaces for fathers, husbands, brothers, boyfriends, and sons to ask about women’s stuff. By arranging the communities as described they can keep discoverability, exclusivity, AND can stop getting forbidden comments from the public on their public forum.
