- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
Users from 4chan claim to have discovered an exposed database hosted on Google’s mobile app development platform, Firebase, belonging to the newly popular women’s dating safety app Tea. Users say they are rifling through peoples’ personal data and selfies uploaded to the app, and then posting that data online, according to screenshots, 4chan posts, and code reviewed by 404 Media.
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Hungry data privacy lawyers when they learned about Tea this week:
Protecting our users’ privacy and data is our highest priority. We are taking every necessary step to ensure the security of our platform
Since sensitive data was put on a public bucket, maybe they meant it was their lowest priority?
Never upload PII to social media
Your privacy is not legally protected.
Tell that to UK citizens. They have to. To be “protected”. The irony
I can’t open the article, but I think I read that this was hosted on an unprotected bucket. Assuming that’s correct I wouldn’t say this was a breach. A better headline would be “Women dating safety app ‘Tea’ exposed women’s PII”.
To be 100% clear, I’m not excusing the hackers. I don’t believe it’s morally correct to publicize something because it is exposed. For folks curious about that you can look into how to ethically disclose vulnerabilities. I still view this as doxxing. I still believe what the hackers did should be a criminal offense, it’s just that I also believe the app holds a ton of the blame as well. How can you proclaim to be about keeping women safe while putting them at risk? That should be punished as well.
Like if the storage facility you trusted to hold your stuff never had locks on the doors, shouldn’t they take a lot of the blame as well as the thief who found out a door was unlocked?
They also said they deleted IDs once users were verified. The breach proved that to be an outright lie.
Criminal negligence.
The bigger problem is trying to get the mainstream that would read an article like that to understand the technical difference between hacking and accessing unsecured data.
The storage facility concept is kinda close, if you count it as “a storage facility beside a major intersection in a big facility, with the locker doors left open despite meant the warning at the front desk not to do so”
The term has had so many definitions its not really meaningful.
To a normie, turning the pull tab on a beverage can around so that it holds a straw is a “hack.”
One of the definitions of hacking is illegally gaining access to a computer system. It doesn’t need to involve any sort of exploit. Stealing from an unlocked home is still stealing. Gaining access to a system by phishing is still hacking. Leaking data that is technically publicly accessible that isn’t meant to be publicly accessible is still hacking.
Not that I suspect anything good from 4chan but the proper thing to do would be to disclose to Tea that their data is public and allow them to fix the problem. The ethics of vulnerability disclosure still apply when the vulnerability is “hey you literally didn’t secure this at all.”
illegally gaining access to a computer system
This is also The legal Definition applied in Germany (with the only difference being, that in Germany it is "gaining access to a system not meant to be accessed). The problem with this is, that everyone who finds security breaches is at threat to be punished for it, even if they ethically disclose it. There have been various cases of ethical hackers receiving fines for disclosing security vulnerabilities.
Same in America. Someone who found a government website had SSNs just sitting in the HTML was almost prosecuted for viewing the raw HTML after ethically disclosing it.
This reminded me of an anecdote from maybe 6 years ago. I was setting up and testing a small network and a couple devices to install for a customer, let’s say the subnet was 192.168.2.0/24.
Weird things were happening, I was being lazy and wasn’t directly connected to the network, may have setup a VPN between devices somewhere; can’t really remember. But pings would sometimes drop or blow out to 100’s ms.
I eventually ended up disconnecting that network entirely, then the pings continued and got more stable?? WTF! I need we didn’t have that subnet in use, even checked before setting it up. In the time between checking and the issues happening, someone in Sydney somewhere had stuffed up on their router and exposed there LAN to the internet without any Firewalls, just available.
Scanned and found all the IPs in use and in them found a printer. Connected to it and printed a page saying I’m from company XYZ and found all these devices available, and to either contact their IT and resolve it ASAP or my company to help. About an hour later it seemed to be resolved.
It was an interesting day.
Uh… you can’t just “expose a LAN network to the Internet” in this manner. Local subnets aren’t routable over the Internet, so you can’t just enter 192.168.2.3 and end up on somebody else’s private LAN.
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/computer-networks/non-routable-address-space/
They would have needed to either have all their internal devices being assigned public IP’s or had NAT+firewall rules explicitly routing ports from their outside address(es) to the inside ones. The former is unlikely as normally ISPs don’t allocate that many to a given client, or at least not by DHCP. the latter would require a specific configuration mapping the outside addresses/ports to inside devices, likely on a per device+port basis.
Either your story is missing key details or you’ve misunderstood/made-up something.
They did indicate that the subnet they provided in the example was not the actual one they used.
I worked for a ISP. A cable company. We were getting our local offair channels from a site that was in easy reception of them. They had a large amount of bandwidth and did the same thing for dish and direct tv. The man who ran network side had a stroke and died. The hack that ran the broadcast side of their main business took over. Next thing I know I’m having all kinds of problems with our multicast tunnel. I port scanned the IP range and discover they have opened the whole thing up. We had a conference call where I detailed my concerns. Later that day the hack called my boss with his boss on the line and we had another meeting where I told them that they were exposed with default passwords and it could be a real problem.
After I was given verbal permission to demonstrate my concerns with some limitations I took over all default password equipment and sent a large amount short stories to their printers. I ended it with the story superiority by Author C. Clark. Some back and forth a day later and they needed a new sysadmin.
Soft rules have never applied to the internet.
Things that you wouldn’t do afk, just because “those are the rules”, doesn’t apply when every empathy damaged person in the world with an internet connection can break them.
Well said.
This is why there should be a nationwide rule that PII data should be deleted after the users identity has been verified
Truly impressive how little america cares about its citizens.
BUT WE HAVE FREEDUM!!!
There should be a time limit on all data.
Not sure if this is ironic that the users are now less safe after using the safety app. But I still feel bad for the users. Dating is hard enough without the fear of being harmed.
Tea is the offshoot of all those “Are We Dating The Same Guy” Facebook groups where ladies gossip, talk shit, slander and creep-shame guys they went on dates with, sometimes throwing around false accusations maliciously to get men ostracized.
On one hand, damn these groups are toxic as fuck and that makes me feel a lot less sympathetic. But on the other hand, this is a textbook argument for why mandatory age verification laws need to be abolished. AWDTSG works as a way to keep women safe when it’s used as intended but there are too many women that will slander men with false allegations purely out of spite.
Right, because only women are the problem, and men are paragons of virtue.
Fuck off
Right because the comment obviously said that no man did bad things and it was ALL women fault
Fuck off with your straw man
🤣
Did I state that? No?
You can fuck off.
Reading these incredible comments has revealed a large piece of what was named as the reason for lemm.ee shutting down.
what was that?
Moderation.
What are the chances of this being the main reason for the app’s existence?
Seeing as the word hack is doing a lot of heavy lifting. They didn’t bother to actually secure the data and then put it on the internet for anyone to access.
People sign up to app intended to share personal information about others without their permission, end up having their own personal information shared without permission - the irony is impressive.
At first I was going to call bullshit because I thought you were exaggerating and being ridiculous.
Nope. That’s the app. “Anonymous” sharing of pictures and info of other people. Presumably without their permission. That’s fucked up.
Yeah. I mean, I get it. The concept of the app makes sense. And I would be that, on average, it is/would be used for good.
On the other hand, as a guy, the idea that people are out there sharing reviews of me as a person on the open internet, and I have no way of knowing this, is deeply unsettling. Like, I haven’t done anything wrong - just the whole concept feels very gross.
That’s terrible.
Have an upvote.
My problem is how it’s implemented.
An app where you simply post a name and a location, and then people can DM you with their experiences directly, would be a lot less invasive.
Especially because the app is called “tea”, like the slang term for gossip. The letter of the intention may have been good but the whole thing is toxic.
You could ask someone you know to register and share the login, it’s a flawed concept. There’s probably a bunch of partners in there who didn’t even know their boyfriend used their info to create an account to check on themselves.
Sucks it’s necessary.
You want women to not just assume youre an insane violent rape monster? Shit like this is how we know.
Or you could, like, fix your entire gender; idk.
…
k
as a woman or woman categorized person
Can’t tell if you’re being transphobic to trans femmes or supportive to femme leaning enbies.
Well im talking about external interpretation of ones identity rather than one’s intended expression, so you figure it out. Or don’t.
I’d say that’s supportive of femme leaning enbies rather than transphobic towards trans women.
There are other things it could be. Interperet as you like.
Bruh
I kniw right? Its pretty fucked, but sometimes belief that people, or even men, are mostly good gets you raped or crawling through a puddle of your own blood with fewer than four functioning limbs.
Cynical bitches like me though; we tend to make it out.
I think it depends on people’s intent and purpose for using this service. I’m overall not a fan of someone taking and sharing pictures of me without my consent, or making claims that can’t be defended…
The group of women legitimately using it for safety is fine, in a general sense.
The group of women using it as gossip and entertainment is not.
Considering that “tea” is common slang for gossip I’m not convinced there was many of the latter.
Given that the app name is slang for gossip, you’re not convinced there were many women using it for gossip?
Thanks I fixed it
It makes sense using it for safety, but I would worry about whether all the information on there is accurate. Most of the feedback on the app is probably negative, I doubt anyone would really post anything on Tea that’s positive about their former partner. But people like to believe they are in the right. Someone who got in a fight with their partner might post something on Tea that isn’t accurate, but makes them feel better since they can spin the story how they want, and make the other person at fault. However, unlike regular social media, the person being attacked by their partner on Tea has no idea that it happened, and no way to refute what was said. It promotes the opposite of any type of communication between partners after a fight or breakup. It promotes safety, but at the same time it promotes some toxicity in relationships. What would you think if you knew that if your got into a disagreement with your partner that you could end up posted on this app, without any way of arguing back?
I made an account on this thing to lurk, bc obviously who wouldn’t be curious? I guess I’m screwed now. Rip.
My friend came over and told me a story about this crazy date she was on. The guy love bombs her, sets her up with a massage, then in the morning, goes out and eats McDonalds alone and ghosts her. Then repeats every few weeks with love bombs.
I shared that with my discord group and someone said they know that guy too.
Im assuming that’s what Tea is for.
…eats McDonalds alone and ghosts her. Then repeats every few weeks with love bombs
Something something “cheat day”
Wait what? How does one ghost and then repeat love bombing? Also why is eating breakfast alone remarkable? Tf is happening?
Im guessing he’s being way too pushy and overbearing, then goes no contact for two weeks, then repeats the process.
You yadda yadda yadda’ed over the best part.
And what part is that?
What did he order at McDonald’s?
sets her up with a massage, then in the morning,
What happened between the massage and him ditching her to eat breakfast?
You don’t have to go home but you can’t stay here: https://www.literotica.com/stories
No, I mentioned the bisque.
Stay classy, 4chan. /facepalm
I would suspect the number of women misusing it is in the minority and the majority use it appropriately.
Well just look at Facebook groups that are dedicated to the same sort of thing and see how catty they get. You know the types that decide that just because a man they have never seen before is in the neighbourhood he’s clearly up to no good when he’s probably just delivering parcels.
Anyway it doesn’t matter if 90% were legitimate and 10% not. They are still defaming people, with no opportunity for those people to correct the record. Anyway I am a much more cynical person, mostly through experience of working in customer service, and I think it’s probably more like 50/50.
Men are not going to win this battle and prove they are better than women in this regard because the men who would misuse such an app are solidly in the majority.
I think there’s also a lot of confirmation bias, in the sense that you need to consider why people would seek out such an app. Why would women seek out a women-only app? And inversely, why would men seek out a men-only app? The answer to each will be fundamentally different, which means the user bases will be fundamentally different as well.
Basically, what types of women would go out of their way to engage with a women-only app? Changes are good that the average woman has probably had the thought before, and is doing so to try and stay safe. The active engagement is seen as a positive thing, and she’s willing to jump through a few hoops (like uploading a photo ID) to get there.
Now imagine the inverse. Most guys probably wouldn’t even think of a men-only app for safety reasons. Like it’s not even on their radar, because safety while dating isn’t something they’re concerned with. So the pool of men who would be willing to go out of their way to engage with a men-only app is going to look vastly different. The average user likely won’t reflect the average man, because the average man wouldn’t even think to seek out a men-only app. Or if he does, he doesn’t feel strongly enough about it to jump through any hoops to engage. It means the average user would most likely be one of the extremely toxic manosphere/men’s rights advocate/creep/etc stereotypes instead.
To be clear, this isn’t a “not all men” post. Because the reality is that it’s certainly enough men to be concerning. My point is simply that the confirmation bias will be a large factor in whether or not the user base actually reflects the average person.
It’s basically the same way the average Lemmy user doesn’t reflect the average person. If you looked at the average Lemmy user and tried to print that into society, you’d expect the average person to be much more liberal than they really are.
Disclaimer: Please consider this a sort of fork of your discussion so far, I only mean to say anything about the parts of your comment I actually reference.
…
Why would women seek out a women-only app? And inversely, why would men seek out a men-only app? The answer to each will be fundamentally different, which means the user bases will be fundamentally different as well.
To a significant degree, yes, but I think you are overstating that degree.
Tea is imo more like a gossip app, ala Nextdoor, just specific to dating.
Tea isn’t a dating app, it is… I guess you could call it … dating-app-meta-review app, from a technically minded standpoint?
A supplement to a (or many) dating app(s).
But it doesn’t actually directly link to
It is named ‘tea’, as in gossiping, the deets, the low down, the real story, etc.
Literally this is their own marketing:
https://www.teaforwomen.com/about
It is literally just a replacement for Facebook ‘Are we dating the same guy’ groups, but better, if you pay, because the Premium account allows you to run background / criminal / sex offender records.
…
So, a rough equivalent for guys would probably be named something like MPH, officially Miles Per Hour, unofficially, Miles Per Hoe, I dunno, something edgy for the manosphere crowd, where guys would gossip about cheating girls/women, and also be able to run background checks on them for a premium.
I can guarantee you that men would be broadly interested in such an app if it existed.
…
Now imagine the inverse. Most guys probably wouldn’t even think of using a men-only app for safety reasons. Like it’s not even on their radar, because safety while dating isn’t something they’re concerned with.
Maybe not as much in the safety sense of immediate physical danger, but absolutely in the sense of… is this person financially abusive, emotionally manipulative, do they have kids, or a massive amount of debt/bad spending habits, an STI, etc, that they don’t mention untill they’ve been dating you for some time, do they have a history of acting like they’re committed when they’ve in the past cheated whilst acting like they were monogamous?
These kinds of things apply to both men and women, and are far more common to occur in a dating/relationship than physical abuse.
Yes, women are more likely to be the victim of physical or sexual violence or stalking…
But its not like this doesn’t happen to men.
I can personally tell you that I, a guy, have been so lucky as to have had all three of those happen to me, done by women.
But lets not just use myself as an anecdote, here are the stats on that from the CDC, last updated before the Trump Admin got into power, doesn’t look like they’ve fucked with this page.
https://www.cdc.gov/intimate-partner-violence/about/index.html
IPV is common. It affects millions of people in the United States each year. Data from CDC’s National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS) indicate:1
About 41% of women and 26% of men experienced contact sexual violence, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner during their lifetime and reported a related impact.
Over 61 million women and 53 million men have experienced psychological aggression by an intimate partner in their lifetime.
We could quibble about the exact stats of what sex/gender the partner was, and they do cite some studies directly, but uh, oversimplifying to pretend only heterosexuality exists…
About half as many men have been seriously, violently victimized or stalked as women, and I’d be willing to bet the psychological abuse numbers are at least a bit closer to equal if you account for men being unwilling to admit to being victimized in that way due to internalized machismo, ‘shut up and deal with it’, whatever you want to call it.
…
Point of me saying all this is to throw numbers toward countering your claim here:
Most men probably wouldn’t think of seeking out a men-only app at all. So the pool of men who would be willing to go out of their way to engage with a men-only app is going to look vastly different. The average user likely won’t reflect the average man, because the average man wouldn’t even think to seek out a men-only app.
I agree that it wouldn’t represent the average man, but we’ve got a potential user pool of 50+ million men in the US who’ve been through a bad relationship and would probably also not want to go through that again.
Again, yes it is absolutely true that women more often experience a more severe form of relationship than men, no argument there.
But I don’t think you can just say that a man version of tea would only appeal to blackpilled manosphere men.
Yes, that would likely be a large proportion of the user base, but there are tons of men who are not misogynists and also would like to avoid being played or abused.
…
Also, uh:
You say that,
The active engagement is seen as a positive thing, and she’s willing to jump through a few hoops (like uploading a photo ID) to get there.
But what I am seeing is:
To access Tea, women have to verify their gender by submitting a selfie, which is then verified by the app’s team.
The rest of that quote is that the picture is ‘verified by the Tea team’, but I think we both know that almost certainly means they just use an AI face scanning tool.
Anyway, point is: taking a selfie is a way, way lower bar to entry than taking a picture of your driver’s liscense… basically every dating app already does the former, this is totally normal now, whereas the latter is… so uncommon I cannot think of an example.
So…taking a selfie is not that much of a trifle, not a strong potential blocker, for a guy who’s already used a dating app in the last 5 ish years.
Funnily enough there was a men-only equivalent of this. It got removed from the appstore because it became a revenge porn hub.
This is a valid take but also consider that the “average man” in the USA is more likely to be a Trump voter or non-voter than someone who would vote to protect women’s rights. Over half of men voters vote for Republican Presidental candidates consistently. On the flip side men supporting Democrat Presidential candidates mostly clocks in at just above 40%. When you account for the size of the USA, those differences are pretty big and put arguably awful men in the clear majority.
I’d love to see where you got your stats, because it looks like you may have cherry-picked a specific group of men for that 60/40 split. The overall split for men in 2024 was closer to 52/46 Republican/Democrat. 52% is still obviously above 50%, but a 6% split between the two is nowhere near the ~20% split you listed. Some specific demographics of men come close to that 60/40 split, but that says more about those specific demographics. For instance, married men swing harder right, but married women do too.
https://cawp.rutgers.edu/blog/gender-differences-2024-presidential-vote
This is for all men and women, not broken down by different factors.
When an average is taken of all the elections, men average 43.67% for Democrat and 50% for Republican for a 6.33% difference. I do also think it’s notable that in only one election since 2000 has the support for Republican candidates from men been under 50%, that’s 48% for McCain in 2008. I honestly think the voting patterns from the 90’s are gone and so while I included those in the averages, I think just touching on votes since 2000 gives a clearer picture with the average for men supporting the Democratic candidate at 44.14% and support for the Republican candidate at 52.58% for an 8.44% difference. That’s still a large spread when we’re talking the total number of men who vote at all. Somewhere around the size of the entire city of Los Angeles in terms of population.
I mean…
Looking at mic_check’s figures…
Lets say we are just talking straight, hetero people.
We got all straight men at 43:55 Dem to Rep, thats a 22% higher chance of a woman randomly picking a Rep instead of a Dem.
Meanwhile you can just, as a woman who is looking into dating a man…
Just pick a random, single, never married dude.
Bam!, now its 61:37 Dem to Rep, a 65% higher chance a random, never married dude will be a Dem than a Rep.
…
We are talking about these stats in the context of dating, right?
Where people like, talk, get to know each other?
Not just being randomly assigned partners from a slot machine?
Do dating apps not like, allow you to filter by something like this, or… talk/chat to a person, and ask them questions before you meet them…?
Its kind of silly to paint individual people with a broadly accurate brush… when the ostensible whole point is to get to know a person individually.
Sure, use broad stats to form a broadly accurate general worldview, but realize its limitations.
Are you projecting or what is this?
I thought 4chan shut down permanently like 2 months ago?
They found someone to update the PHP version to one released this decade.
Cancer can return after going into remission for a while.
Nah they came back online after like 2 weeks I think?
This is what happens when you decide to vibecode a service with zero attention to safety or web development. This is why you don’t immediately jump onto a new service without it being vetted properly. Now one of the worst communities on the Internet is in possession of over a hundred thousand women’s driving licenses and faces. This is going to be an absolute disaster.
Now now, I like to shit on vibecoders too but let’s not pretend this is some new problem.
Idiots leave databases on cloud servers exposed all the time rather than deal with their companies often arcane rules for generating certificates
Where do you think the AI learned it?
Like, I get that competent coders do it too, but now any skiddie with an idea can cosplay as a developer so this is going to be so much more prevelant
That’s not new, either.
Remember when the government published SSNs in HTML? https://www.zdnet.com/article/missouri-will-not-prosecute-hacker-reporter-for-daring-to-view-state-website-html/
To be fair, I’m not sure why firebase even has a public access option. That’s a recipe for issues.
Though if it’s anything like Google Cloud Store, they hopefully make it very clear that your bucket is public.
Anybody oblivious enough to create something like this isn’t someone you should trust your most private data with. This service had red flags from the concept phase, never mind the execution.
This is not to say, of course, that the victims deserved it. It just really sucks that they had to learn this lesson this way.
How is something “vetted properly” and how do I find out about that?
This is something I worry about all the time as well, especially since I’ve started to learn how to code and experienced how easy it is to mess up and send a list with all registered users to everyone opening a page. (This was in a test environment.)
As a user, there is no proper way I know of to verify an app’s security. Most apps are closed source, but even if you could view the code, what would you look for?
Both Apple and Google have a verification process for apps that are published in their app stores, but if these worked, we wouldn’t see this happening.
There are academic researchers working on apps and privacy as well, but it’s not like you can ask them for a report on an app you’re thinking of installing.
I think it basically comes down to trust. Check if a developer has messed up in the past and how they dealt with that, that sort of stuff. And for dating apps there is this interesting article: https://www.privacyguides.org/articles/2025/06/24/queer-dating-apps-beware-who-you-trust/#reducing-the-risks-when-using-dating-apps
It’s a long read (haven’t fully read it myself yet) and it paints a bleak picture, but that’s the world we live in today.
You can pay for a 3rd party to penetration test your app, it’s good practice to do this before you launch an app, after any significant changes, and annually at a minimum.
There are also a growing number of companies offering continuous penetration testing - basically, automated pen tests - but these are expensive and it’s difficult to convince companies that the cost is worth it
I honestly don’t understand what op is talking about.
Leaks happen all the time, even in billion dollar companies.
Their comment is the equivalent like, “This is why you should lock your doors!” Like uh okay.
I love how people just jump on whatever they like, instead of actually thinking about the stuff they read/comment on/upvote. Exactly like on Reddit, no difference.
How strange that a site designed exactly like reddit behaves like reddit.
The thing is that many here think they are better, they look down on Reddit. There is a certain shift in what demographic switched over but generally it is the same.
This situation would have been easily preventable with basic understanding of what they’re doing is what OP is saying. This leak is not something highly complex, it is painfully stupid on the side of the developers.
There’s a difference between a hack, where data is exposed, compared to data exposure due to negligence or ignorance on the development side.
Again, how should the end use know anything about what is going on at their end? How does anyone “vett” that? It is a nonsense “argument” to put blame on the users.
Where I’m from there’s certificates a company can get, that confirm a certain level of process and IT security. Also a company existing for at least 5-10 years without incidents is a “vetted” company in my books. At least anything that managed to produce a working IT system before 2021 when AI came around.
I also believe there’s a bit of bad wording going on with the original comment. Take it up with that guy, lol.
This was more like leaving all your valuables in a cardboard box on your front lawn. Anyone can just take it, if they care to look inside the complete unsecured box.
Someone just drove up and tossed the box in their truck. No lock involved.
Deutsch ≠ English
Schau mal nach, in welcher Sprache die Wikiseite ist…
I assumed people would be able to find Wikipedia’s “switch language” button and Datensparsamkeit has a better fit here that eine be lost in translation.
You wait a while until something like this happens.
“Vibe coded” you just made that up didn’t you, because you don’t like llms. I don’t see anything in the article about “Ai” and this service has been operating for 2 years.
My thoughts as well. But hey, it’s lemmy! Just accuse someone of doing something we hate, good to go!
The og 4chan post brought up the vibe coding. Using it as an insult to quality is wider spread than just lemmy.
Maybe I shouldn’t have used the term vibe coded. I apologize.
This is ALSO why no service should ever require or get my driver’s license information. Fuck that. Also, yet another Constance to those who can’t afford a car or want to improve the environment by living car free.
The only site I ever felt comfortable scanning shit like that into was a site that sold things only to military/medics/fire fighters so I had to upload my medic license and my FF cert.
Anything beyond that is a no go from me.
My only exception to that are uber drivers. But then again we live in an age where somehow better help has become popular, even though they sell your data.
I disagree on even that. It should be enough to have some trusted “notary” tick a box that they have verified your driver’s license as valid. It should not be stored out sent anywhere at any time. Just showed to a human. Regularly, if needed.
Instead, just prove you have a credit card by submitting the details. Also totally safe. Be sure to include the CVV, please!
