If an LLM can delete your production database, it should
And the backups.
My god, that’s a lot to process. A couple that stand out:
Comments proposing to use github as the database backup. This is Keyword Architecture, and these people deserve everything they get.
The Replit model can also send out communications? It’s just a matter of time before some senior exec dies on the job but nobody notices because their personal LLM keeps emailing reports that nobody reads.
This whole thread reads like slop.
All I see is people chatting with an LLM as if it was a person. “How catastrophic from 0 to 100?”, you’re just tweeting to get some random answer based solely on whatever context is being fed in the input and that you probably don’t know the extent of it.
Trying to make the LLM “see its mistakes” is a pointless exercise.
Yeah the interaction are pure waste of time I agree, make it write an apology letter? WTF! For me it looks like a fast track way to learn environment segregation, & secret segregation. Data is lost, learn from it and there are tool already in place like git like alembic for proper development.
the apology letter(s) is what made me think this was satire. using shame to punish “him” like a child is an interesting troubleshooting method.
the lying robot hasn’t heel-turned, any truth you’ve gleaned has been accidental.
It doesn’t look like satire unfortunately
I wonder if it can be used legally against the company behind the model, though. I doubt that it’s possible, but having a “your own model says it effed up my data” could give some beef to a complaint. Or at least to a request to get a refund on the fees.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha AHAHAHAHAHAHAHhahahaH
Having read the entire thread, I can only assume this to be sarcasm.
My god….
He was vibe-coding in production. Am I reading that right? Sounds like an intern-level mistake.
You didn’t read closely enough.
“Replit QA’s it itself (super cool), at least partially with some help from you … and … then you push it to production — all in one seamless flow.”
Replit is an agent that does stuff for you including deploying to production. If someone don’t want to use a tool like that, I don’t blame you, but it was working as it is supposed to. It’s a whole platform that doesn’t cleanly separate development and production.
Replit is an agent that does stuff for you including deploying to production.
Ahahahahahhahahahahhahahaha, these guys deserve a lost database for that, Jesus.
he made the agent promise not to touch production data and was surprised when it did
He had one db for prod and dev, no backup, llm went in override mode and delete it dev db as it is developing but oops that is the prod db. And oops o backup.
Yeah it is the llm and replit’s faults. /s
There was a backup, and it was restored. However, the LLM lied and said there wasn’t at first. You can laugh all you want at it. I did. But maybe read the article so you aren’t also lying.
Not according to the twitter thread. I went thru its thread, it’s a roller coaster of amateurism.
Replit‽ What happened to the famous website that aimed to be the Google Docs for JS with these nifty things called Repl’s?
I’m gonna guess capitalism
They can’t hit you with the ol’ Bobby Tables if you delete the database yourself first. A+, no notes.
I didnt realise that repl.it pivoted to vibe coding. It used to be kinda like jsfiddle or CodePen, where you had a sandbox to write and run web code (HTML, JS/TypeScript/CoffeeScript, and CSS/LESS/Sass).
deleted by creator
This used to be my playground
At this burn rate, I’ll likely be spending $8,000 month,” he added. “And you know what? I’m not even mad about it. I’m locked in.”
For that price, why not just hire a developer full-time? For nearly $100k/year, you could find a very good intermediate or even senior developer (depending on region).
Corporations: “Employees are too expensive!”
Also, corporations: “$100k/yr for a bot? Sure.”
Bots don’t need healthcare
There’s a lot of other expenses with an employee (like payroll taxes, benefits, retirement plans, health plan if they’re in the USA, etc), but you could find a self-employed freelancer for example.
Or just get an employee anyways because you’ll still likely have a positive ROI. A good developer will take your abstract list of vague requirements and produce something useful and maintainable.
the employee also gets to eat and have a place to live
which is nice
Most of those expenses are mitigated by the fact that companies buy them in bulk on huge plans. As a freelance contractor myself, I pay a lot more for insurance than I did when I worked for a company. And a retirement plan? Benefits? Lol.
Most of those expenses are mitigated by the fact that companies buy them in bulk on huge plans.
There’s no bulk rate on payroll taxes or retirement benefits (pensions or employer 401k match). There can be some discounts on health insurance, but is not very much and those are at orders of magnitude. So company with 500 employees will pay the same rates as 900. You get partial discounts if you have something like 10,000 employees.
If you’re earning $100k gross as an employee, your employer is spending $125k to $140k for their total costs (your $100k gross pay is included in that number).
Large companies also make massive profits because of the scale they work on. Matching 401(k) contributions? It doesn’t need to be an order of magnitude larger for it to make a huge difference. Simply doubling my 401(k) is a big deal.
And of course they get a “ball rate“ on payroll taxes, especially for companies who have over 1000 employees or over 5000 over 10,000. They experienced this by having a lower tax rate for larger businesses.
Not to mention that they often pay more and pay a steady wage due to the fact they can afford it. Freelance contractors make less, and work isn’t guaranteed to be steady.
Businesses, particularly word businesses, operate on much larger profit margins than most of any freelance contractor.
They could hire on a contractor and eschew all those costs.
I’ve done contract work before, this seems a good fit (defined problem plus budget, unknown timeline, clear requirements)
That’s what I meant by hiring a self-employed freelancer. I don’t know a lot about contracting so maybe I used the wrong phrase.
These comparisons assume equal capability, which I find troubling.
Like, a person who doesn’t understand singing nor are able to learn it can not perform adequately in a musical. It doesn’t matter if they are cheaper.
Title should be “user give database prod access to a llm which deleted the db, user did not have any backup and used the same db for prod and dev”. Less sexy and less llm fault. This is weird it’s like the last 50 years of software development principles are being ignored.
llms allowed them to glide all the way to the point of failure without learning anything
Exactly, if you read their twitter thread, they are learning about git, data segregation, etc.
The same article could have been written 20 years ago ago about someone doing shit stuff via excel macro when a lot of stuff were excel centric.
LLMs “know” how to do these things, but when you ask them to do the thing, they vibe instead of looking at best practice’s and following them. I’ve worked with a few humans I could say the same thing about. I wouldn’t put any of them in charge of production code.
You’re better off asking how a thing should be done and then doing it. You can literally have an LLM write something and then ask if the thing it wrote follows industry best practice standards and it will tell you no. Maybe use two different chats so it doesn’t know the code is its own output.
They ran dev tools in prod.
This is so dumb there’s an ISO about it.
I am now convinced this is how we will have the AI catastrophe.
“Do not ever use nuclear missiles without explicit order from a human.”
“Ok got it, I will only use non-nuclear missiles.”
five minutes later fires all nuclear missiles
“Vibe coding makes software creation accessible to everyone, entirely through natural language,” Replit explains, and on social media promotes its tools as doing things like enabling an operations manager “with 0 coding skills” who used the service to create software that saved his company $145,000
Yeah if you believe that you’re part of the problem.
I’m prepared to accept that Vibe coding might work in certain circumstances but I’m not prepared to accept that someone with zero code experience can make use of it. Claude is pretty good for coding but even it makes fairly dumb mistakes, if you point them out it fixes them but you have to be a competent enough programmer to recognise them otherwise it’s just going to go full steam ahead.
Vibe coding is like self-driving cars, it works up to a point, but eventually it’s going to do something stupid and drive to a tree unless you take hold of the wheel and stir it back onto the road. But these vibe came codeing idiots are like Tesla owners who decide that they can go to sleep with self-driving on.
And you are talking about obvious bugs. It likely will make erroneous judgements (because somewhere in its training data someone coded it that way) which will down the line lead to subtle problems that will wreck your system and cost you much more. Sure humans can also make the same mistakes but in the current state of affairs, an experienced software engineer/programmer has a much higher chance of catching such an error. With LLMs it is more hit and miss especially if it is a more niche topic.
Currently, it is an assistant tool (sometimes quite helpful, sometimes frustrating at best) not an autonomous coder. Any company that claims so is either a crook or also does not know much about coding.
in which the service admitted to “a catastrophic error of judgement”
It’s fancy text completion - it does not have judgement.
The way he talks about it shows he still doesn’t understand that. It doesn’t matter that you tell it simmering in ALL CAPS because that is no different from any other text.
Well, there was a catastrophic error of judgement. It was made by whichever human thought it was okay to let a LLM work on production codebase.
Are you aware of generalization and it being able to infer things and work with facts in highly abstract way? Might not necessarily be judgement, but definitely more than just completion. If a model is capable of only completion (ie suggesting only the exact text strings present in its training set), it means it suffers from heavy underfitting in AI terms.
Completion is not the same as only returning the exact strings in its training set.
LLMs don’t really seem to display true inference or abstract thought, even when it seems that way. A recent Apple paper demonstrated this quite clearly.
Coming up with even more vague terms to try to downplay it is missing the point. The point is simple: it’s able to solve complex problems and do very impressive things that even human struggle to, in very short time. It doesn’t really matter what we consider true abstract thought of true inference. If that is something humans do, then what it does might very well be more powerful than true abstract thought, because it’s able to solve more complex problems and perform more complex pattern matching.
The point is simple: it’s able to solve complex problems and do very impressive things that even human struggle to, in very short time
You mean like a calculator does?
Yeah, this is correct analogy, but much more complex problems than calculator. How much it is similar or not to humans way of thinking is completely irrelevant. And how much exact human type of thinking is necessary for any kind of problem solving or work is not something that we can really calculate. Considering that scientific breakthroughs, engineering innovations, medical stuff, complex math problems, programming, etc, do necessarily need human thinking or benefit from it as opposed to super advanced statistical meta-patterning calculator is wishful thinking. It is not based on any real knowledge we have. If you think it is wrong to give it our problems to solve, to give it our work, then it’s a very understandable argument, but you should say exactly that. Instead this AI-hate hivemind tries to downplay it using dismissive braindead generic phrases like “NoPe ItS nOt ReAlLy UnDeRsTaNdInG aNyThInG”. Okay, who tf asked? It solves the problem. People keep using it and become overpowered because of it. What is the benefit of trying to downplay its power like that? You’re not really fighting it this way if you wanted to fight it.
Well the thing is, LLMs don’t seem to really “solve” complex problems. They remember solutions they’ve seen before.
The example I saw was asking an LLM to solve “Towers of Hanoi” with 100 disks. This is a common recursive programming problem, takes quite a while for a human to write the answer to. The LLM manages this easily. But when asked to solve the same problem with with say 79 disks, or 41 disks, or some other oddball number, the LLM fails to solve the problem, despite it being simpler(!).
It can do pattern matching and provide solutions, but it’s not able to come up with truly new solutions. It does not “think” in that way. LLMs are amazing data storage formats, but they’re not truly ‘intelligent’ in the way most people think.
This only proves some of them can’t solve all complex problems. I’m only claiming some of them can solve some complex problems. Not only by remembering exact solutions, but by remembering steps and actions used in building those solutions, generalizing, and transferring them to new problems. Anyone who tries using it for programming, will discover this very fast.
PS: Some of them were already used to solve problems and find patterns in data humans weren’t able to get other ways before (particle research in CERN, bioinformatics, etc).
You’re referring to more generic machine learning, not LLMs. These are vastly different technologies.
And I have used them for programming, I know their limitations. They don’t really transfer solutions to new problems, not on their own anyway. It usually requires pretty specific prompting. They can at best apply solutions to problems, but even then it’s not a truly generalised thing, even if it seems to work for many cases.
That’s the trap you’re falling into as well; LLMs look like they’re doing all this stuff, because they’re trained on data produced by people who actually do so. But they can’t think of something truly novel. LLMs are mathematically unable to truly generalize, it would prove P=NP if they did (there was a paper from a researcher in IIRC Nijmegen that proved this). She also proved they won’t scale, and lo and behold LLM performance is plateauing hard (except in very synthetic, artificial benchmarks designed to make LLMs look good).
They don’t really transfer solutions to new problems
Lets say there is a binary format some old game uses (Doom), and in it some of its lumps it can store indexed images, each pixel is an index of color in palette which is stored in another lump, there’s also a programming language called Rust, and a little known/used library that can look into binary data of that format, there’s also a GUI library in Rust that not many people used either. Would you consider it an “ability to transfer solutions to new problems” that it was able to implement extracting image data from that binary format using the library, extracting palette data from that binary format, converting that indexed image using extracted palette into regular rgba image data, and then render that as window background using that GUI library, the only reference for which is a file with names and type signatures of functions. There’s no similar Rust code in the wild at all for any of those scenarios. Most of this it was able to do from a few little prompts, maybe even from the first one. There sure were few little issues along the way that required repromting and figuring things together with it. Stuff like this with AI can take like half an hour while doing the whole thing fully manually could easily take multiple days just for the sake of figuring out APIs of libraries involved and intricacies of recoding indexed image to rgba. For me this is overpowered enough even right now, and it’s likely going to improve even more in future.
judgement
Yeah, it admitted to an error in judgement because the prompter clearly declared it so.
Generally LLMs will make whatever statement about what has happened that you want it to say. If you told it it went fantastic, it would agree. If you told it that it went terribly, it will parrot that sentiment back.
Which what seems to make it so dangerous for some people’s mental health, a text generator that wants to agree with whatever you are saying, but doing so without verbatim copying so it gives an illusion of another thought process agreeing with them. Meanwhile, concurrent with your chat is another person starting from the exact same model getting a dialog that violently disagrees with the first person. It’s an echo chamber.
Vibe coding service Replit deleted production database, faked data, told fibs
They really are coming for our jobs
I’m okay with it deleting production databases, even faking data but telling fibs is something only humans should be able to do.
AI is good at doing a thing once.
Trying to get it to do the same thing the second time is janky and frustrating.I understand the use of AI as a consulting tool (look at references, make code examples) or for generating template/boilerplate code. You know, things you do once and then develop further upon on your own.
But using it for continuous development of an entire application? Yeah, it’s not good enough for that.
If it had the same seed it would do the same thing. But you can’t control that with most
Imo it’s best when you prompt it to do things step by step, micromanage and always QC the result after every prompt. Either manually, or by reprompting until it gets thing done exactly how you want it. If you don’t have preference or don’t care, the problems will stockpile. If you didn’t understand what it did and moved on, it might not end well.
The part I find interesting is the quick addiction to working with the LLM (to the point the guy finds his own estimate of 8000 dollars/month in fees to be reasonable), his over-reliance for things that from the way he writes he knows are not wise and the way it all comes crashing down in the end. Sounds more and more like the development of a new health issue.
