To be fair, you have to credit Democrats with Obamacare which was really a way to improve the lives of poorer people
And the 2000s bank bailouts.
Also, cash for clunkers?
Obamacare is responsible for finding the masses in my breasts right now so I like it. I’d like it more if just everyone could go to the doctor and not have to ask, like I do, “is it covered by my insurance”
One half-baked concession to the poor doesn’t imply their party platform is about improving the lives of poor people.
You mean Romney care without the public option. Obamacare is more conservative than the actual republican plan…
Which is the Republicans’ fault, they’re the ones that forced the public option out of the bill.
Can you not see that the people who are disagreeing with you are merely suggesting that it is not as black and white as it being the democrats fault, or the republicans fault, that perhaps there’s more to it than which corporate/aipac/billionaire donor football team you like?
The donor class owns both teams by the way.
It’s the corporate dems and the corporate republicans who are holding back progress… because of legal bribery - campaign donations….
By your logic, democrats blocked 100% of Biden’s agenda while he was in office.
Biden literally accomplished nothing during his administration, and even the dumb stuff that was passed has been clawed back already.
It’s not fair to say that he accomplished nothing! Bombing kids, backing a genocide, taking money from the working-class and poor, and giving it to his rich friends, helping to build out the border wall, increasing funding for the police and surveillance state…
All that work aint easy.
I don’t like football
Man Obamacare really did a lot to help the Libyans getting bombed by NATO forces.
Obamacare was always a rhetorical device to prove how unserious the GOP is at governing.
I credit Dems with making Mitt Romney’s healthcare plan worse, by removing the public option - the thing that would have actually improved the lives of poorer people. Instead, we simply shoveled some 30mil Americans right into the pockets of predatory insurance companies.
The only silver lining from that legislation was preventing them from denying care due to pre-existing conditions, and that point has been an all out battleground ever since.
One side created secret police and are kidnapping people off of the streets to put into concentration camps. End of fucking discussion.
And why exactly isn’t this other party, so different, doing anything to prevent that?
Could it be because you have only two viable parties and they’re nearly identical, thus having no actual opposition that could overcome abuses by the dominant party at any given point in time? Something other countries have a lot of experience with?
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So what you’re saying is that the electorates are completely different? Exactly. Thanks for that.
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I agreed with you about the actual issue but wtf. You do realize the United States has 340 million people and lager that whatever country you likely love in, right? There are many diverse political postions here, but you won’t see them in our duopoly…
Like yeah the Dems played a roll in funding and using the police state. They want itm they love West wing TV style politics where they think they are the good guys and can’t critically consider any positive future and therefore end up being shit libs at best.
The republicans actively want to kill everyone for profit.
The Dems actively support the modern Holocaust.
Liberals continue to demonstrate they don’t consider foreigners human
When Trump terminated the USAID, Some very liberal who used to advocate for “Women and children” people came out with how No USAID means the USA will lose leverage,like We know you don’t care but at least don’t promote such disgusting foulplays.
And the other side was in power for 4 years but did nothing to prevent this from happening
Biden didn’t shut down any of the ICE concentration camps Trump opened the last time he was president.
Also Guantanamo Bay has had bipartisan support since the beginning.
lmfao Obama vastly expanded the surveillance programs Bush started after 9/11 https://time.com/3909293/edward-snowden-obama-nsa-spying/
You’re an ignoramus and you should be ashamed of yourself. End of fucking discussion.
Building on a police state that was 50% pre-built by The Other Party™ but hey who could have thought that bad guys could ever take advantage of it!
Exactly. When terrorists take over a police station it’s really the police’s fault for existing the first place.
The fact that there are so many dislikes proves how propagandized the average American is. “How dare you call both sides the same” Well, they ojectively are pretty much the same with few exceptions.
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet. The other side brings a knife to the gun fight.
They’re not even remotely the same. 40 years ago that may have been closer to true.
The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
Democrats seek to regulate said capital. The Overton window is too far right to have much effect.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy. Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
They only seek to regulate capital as much as their megacorp and billionaire donors wish. The “Overton Window” has nothing to do with it.
Further, if both parties serve capital, then we have democracy for capital, not for the people.
Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
Democrats seek to regulate said capital
No, they aren’t.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy
If you think that you live under a democracy, i.e. that your government’s decisions reflect your wishes, then you should be held accountable for the genocides and invasions that your state keeps committing.
Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
The US suffering a coup would at worst not make anything worse, including in terms of ‘democracy’.
Just wondering which country are you from?
No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don’t actually want to regulate it. Yes they won’t be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
Most right wing policies done by Democrats are necessary because of the electoral college. There is resistance from the right, and Democrats working within the unfair rules need to appease these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair. It’s not usually because they want to appease billionaires. But definitely there is corruption on both sides. Just 10x as much on the right.
How did you quantity that 10x times?
My best naïve estimate puts Democrats at 1.44-1.98x as corrupt.
😂 I mean for one, the entire presidential election was purchased by a few rich people who used disinformation tactics. Then taxes for the rich were eradicated at the expense of everyone else. That’s the exact opposite of the Democrat’s political ideology. I should say 1000x. I’ll call it “orders of magnitude” instead.
So where did you get 1.98?
these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair.
Unless that compromise is “don’t commit genocide”, then they’ll happily abaondon the swing-state voters.
I’m bored now, good day
oh god i agree with cowbee wholeheartedly in a thread of discourse…
oh god oh fuck oh shit i can feel it happening… is it warm in here?
Я чувствую, как марксизм-ленинизм просачивается в мой мозг!!! make it stop….
Теперь я чувствую себя белым и пушистым… как коммунистический медведь.
—-
anyway joking aside appreciate lemmy collectively telling neolibs to shut the fuck up bc while plenty of things .ml says piss me off, they don’t piss me off nearly as much as seeing americans who haven’t ripped the bandaid off yet.
Hey, seems like a good enough reason to start looking into Marxist-Leninist theory as any! 😉
This is some campist nonsense.
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet
Octagon9561:
proves how propagandized the average American is
PastaFARRian:
✅
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet.
And the other side commits genocide. It also overthrows other people’s democracy, but you don’t consider foreigners human.
https://www.inss.org.il/publication/democrats/
Most Democrats express greater sympathy for Palestinians. That’s not what I would call “committing genocide”. What I see is Democrat officials expressing support, but powerless against Republicans who do not. That’s not supporting genocide. We’re fighting, but losing.
Most Democrats express greater sympathy for Palestinians. That’s not what I would call “committing genocide”.
Committing genocide is committing genocide. What the fuck is wrong with you?
What I see is Democrat officials expressing support, but powerless against Republicans who do not.
Then you had your eyes closed for all of 2024
That’s not supporting genocide. We’re fighting, but losing.
Genocide denier
Ok, I’ll return your argument strategy exactly as you stated it:
"Are you in Gaza bypassing the blockade and delivering relief to the affected people right now?
If not, you are a genocide denier and had your eyes closed for all of 2025. What the fuck is wrong with you? You shameful asshole. People are dying and you don’t even give a fuck. You have nothing more to say that I care about until you personally feed an affected person. Hypocrite."
Ok, I’ll return your argument strategy exactly as you stated it: [Some thing that in no way resembles anything I said]
You people really cannot behave in good faith, can you?
If not, you are a genocide denier and had your eyes closed for all of 2025. What the fuck is wrong with you? You shameful asshole. People are dying and you don’t even give a fuck. You have nothing more to say that I care about until you personally feed an affected person. Hypocrite."
Incoherent. But I guess I shouldn’t expect more from a genocide apologist fuck like you.
“Everyone who is an adult who realizes there is no unicorn party is completely propagandized. I am le very smart.”
Especially for non-Usian people, doubly especially for those on the working end of US “diplomacy” - bombs, coups and sanctions come regardless of which US administration, there is literally no difference whatsoever.
Compare the last 6 months to the previous 4 years. You know they’re not.
I’m no fan of the democrats, but they don’t want to systematically exterminate people like me.
Yeah they’re the same except one of them wants to kill me and my friends
You must be very privileged or very ignorant to see things this way.
The Democratic Party is somewhat conservative and stand firmly behind capitalism. But they aren’t fascists. Not at all.
The center section is too small and should take up 95% of the total area.
The uni-party trash system.
At least Democrats want to slowly slide us into a monarchy. MAGA wants it NOW!
What a country…
*3rd world shithole country
That’s an insult to all 3rd world shithole countries. At least they’re trying.
do you want cancer to kill you now or do chemo and live for another 20 years?
You don’t have to agree with everything, but there’s a lot of truth in this diagram. Both are serving AIPAC, both don’t care about woking class, both want to collapse the US with infinite military spending,…
The experiment is over. The results were not great.
Some stuff about Alligator Alcatraz…
Some stuff about hooking a brain dead pregnant woman up to life support to be kept alive like a science experiment and forced to give birth…
Some stuff about dismantling of government institutions like the department of education…
Some stuff about closing the civil rights office that was created in response to the patriot act…
Some stuff about not being sure if we have to follow habeas corpus…
Ya I could totally see how both sides are essentially the same…
US Democracy = Vote Far Rights or Fascists to combat this terrible Comunism, wearing shirts in Stars and Stripes design. Neo-liberal feudalism
Some stuff about Alligator Alcatraz…
Some stuff about hooking a brain dead pregnant woman up to life support to be kept alive like a science experiment and forced to give birth…
Some stuff about dismantling of government institutions like the department of education…
Some stuff about closing the civil rights office that was created in response to the patriot act…
Some stuff about not being sure if we have to follow habeas corpus…
Ya I could totally see how both sides are essentially the same…
I couldn’t agree more. Also:
Except MAGA is not neoliberalism unless we think tariffs are now “free trade”. I get the point that neither party will wield power against capitalism, but they still use their power differently.
Yeah you’re right, calling it “neoliberalism” at this point is questionable. They’re also blocking renewable energy businesses.
Biden also implemented tariffs to China tho.
but they still use their power differently.
Well…Do they though? On that pesky genocide (sorry I forgot–lets not call it ‘genocide’, right, that makes dems queasy-- how about we just say some people seem to have dropped dead), Bidens pretend “push back” and “negotiations” and “red lines” and “plans to build a dock to get food in and then hand it to the Israelis just like every single other land border crossing” all show that the dem centrists are simply mercenaries paid by zionists. mercenaries who take the time to put up some theatre for their evil so people dont have to acknowledge it, but the exact same outcomes happen either way. Most of the deaths and most of the building demolitions happened under Biden. When you and I start trying to parse if it was slightly faster under Trump, aren’t we missing the point?
We lost Roe under Biden, who famously never supported a womans right to choose until right before he got tapped to be VP. Strange coincidence?
Appointing Merrick Garland as AG and then pretending to be powerless while Garland proceeded to lean right and sit on his hands for 4 entire years is another example. As is cracking down on free speech. And what did Biden do in the wake of all the police murders that the defund and reallocate movement brought to his door? He said explicitly that he didnt agree with the massive movement on the left, and shut it down, actually increasing police funding as an extra “eff you” to the dem voters. Same as a republican would. Wheres this imagined difference?
And Biden famously told rooms full of rich donors at the end of Trumps term that “nothing would fundamentally change” (from Trump’s first term) under him. This emncapsulates this whole discussion perfectly. Biden swearing to the rich that nothing will change, while pretending to run on change.
This is the same Biden who shut down a rail strike, and then slowly over time negotiated a tiny fraction of what the strikers wanted, and then called it a victory on their behalf-- and then had the effing gall to walk a picket line for a photo op so his surrogates could trumpet how union-friendly he was. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/joe-biden-rail-strike-labor-unions
Same Biden who during his term bragged about being harder on immigration than Trump ever had been-- and wore it like a badge of honor that he’d “closed the southern border”. https://jacobin.com/2024/06/biden-asylum-executive-order-border
Today centrist dems wont even admit there was ever any problem. So I guess you’d say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
So I guess you’d say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
My brother in Christ, you’re not talking to a liberal here.
Hrm I see you are correct. My bad, sorry.
The republicans just funded a gestapo force which is rounding up brown people (some of them citizens) to take them to concentration camps where some and probably soon all of them are going to start dying.
Recently an 82 year old legal permanent resident originally from Chile where he fled the horror story we kick started decades ago was nabbed whilst replacing his lost green card and is now on deaths door in Gautama where we left him to die on the street whilst lying to his family so they couldn’t help him.
Please tell me this is the same as life under Obama.
interesting to see right wing memes even on lemmy.
“Which side are you on?”
The “two party” system is on the same side.
Change my mind
Capitalism is a tool to maximize profit. Whoever thought it was a good idea to let capitalism have influence on laws so that they can maximize its profit was a big fool.
What do you expect? Capitalism, a tool, has by definition no morale. Let it decide politics to increase profit and you end up with that kind of shit society we have today.
Don’t blame the hammer, when you hit your thumb. Also, don’t let the hammer decide where to make the biggest dent.
Can we please start again focusing on the people? Without people there is no society, and there is no market to increase profits.
Start using capitalism and free markets like a tool. Want more renewable and clean energy? Make rules and see the magic of capitalism in making the best out of it.
Instead we let capitalism decide what should be done next and suffer the consequences. It’s as easy as that.
Unfortunately capitalism not only create the rules, they also decide what is news and influence societies views. And that’s why OPs picture is as it is.
Fuck socialism, am I right guys?!
I agree with this 100%.
Capitalism is exceptional at finding ways to provide value when there is a new market. The issue comes when capital gets accumulated and concentrated in the hands of a few.
We’ve seen it dozens of times throughout history where a healthy merchant class with lots of opportunity for upwards mobility ends up in an oligarchy as the market becomes saturated then monopolies, duopolies, and cabals (guilds) form.
The state needs to use the “P” and “L” in PESTEL forces (Political, Economical, Social, Technological, Environmental, Legal) that businesses (from single to large multinational) to identify new markets that need investment.
An examples would be new clean renewable electricity and one way of giving preferrence to this green energy by minimally taxing profts on this energy sold in the national market or international market via grid-interconnect networks (“Gridternets” if you will) with a clear plan to increase the tax to a normalised amount slowly overtime as the green share of the market approaches 100%.
It also has to be used to more aggressively dissuade markets that are more harmful than good now. An example of this is dirty power.
Coal, Oil, and Gas have done wonders for increasing people’s quality of life because they unlocked a new energy density previously unattainable. Now we have alternatives that are by every metric better; more efficient and less polluting.
Therefore, these industries need to be taxed out of existence by using a logarithmic energy carbon tax that keeps increasing year on year. Corruption needs to be rooted out like a weed as much as possible using a politically independent organ of the state to keep it healthy.
Then there’s markets that are stagnant in some state of capture: crumbling infrastructure, food retailer hypermarkets, etc. Windfall suprise taxes on incumbents and grants / zero interest loans for new competitors would reignight competition in those markets and the additional tax revenue can be used to fix the crumbling infrastructure these markets rely on.
And finally, I’d like to see a strong preference for co-operatives where ownership in a free market is much more evenly distributed by making them the least taxed commercial entities with businesses that have a higher concentration of ownership are taxed more through some sort of profit tax multiplier.
It’s much harder for a business to act in a pure profit motive to the detriment of society if the employees have more ownership as it allows morality to be expressed through political power within this business. These employees also then benefit from the profit share as well which gives stability and upward mobility in exchange for their labour.
There, that’s three proposals that could help towards decarbonisation, investing in underfunded infrastructure, and reducing inequality.
I am not a policy expert and there’s bound to be problems with each of those proposals that I haven’t thought of, but we have so much more to gain by working cooperatively together to build a system that aims to better humanity as a whole by using the best tools correctly and safety.
Until we reach an energy density which unlocks technology that enables things like a resourceless economy (a la Star Trek luxury space communism), we’re stuck with the tools of money and capital as the ways to transfer value.
I personally can’t wait for the day where “reputation” rather than money becomes the currency of society, I am willing to work with the tools we have right now to build that future, and I have faith that others are willing to build it with me.
Yes, definitely, but I think you mean an exponential energy tax law, not a logarithmic one.
Yes, correct I do. Engineer brain working in dBs constantly.
Just a reminder that the function of the Democratic party is to continually reduce expectations so that this diagram seems reasonable.