- cross-posted to:
- opensource@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- opensource@lemmy.ml
Google’s Android, the world’s most widely used mobile operating system, started life as open-source software. In its quest for ever-greater profits, the tech giant has been gradually eroding Android’s open-source nature over the last decade.
Originally published on The Lever, but that one asks you to sign up.
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It’s almost like the organization itself is designed to make things worse if it means short term profits, useful and appreciated apps sacrificed at the altar of line must go up
My pixel 5 recently broke and the only reason I went with a pixel 9a was to install grapheneOS on it as soon as I got it. The process has become way easier than it used to be. After setting up/skipping all the first run screens I plugged it into another Android device and used the grapheneOS site to run the install, took like 15 min.
hows your experience with graphene? Better than stock? I heard they have a sandboxed Google Play store now, so getting apps is even easier.
So far it’s been good for about a week. Highlights have been the easy install, secure by default but lets me override when I want (block app network access on install is awesome), and getting access to the other app repos than Google’s I haven’t seen since I installed dirty unicorns years ago. I setup multiple users so I can keep my primary like a root which was also simple to do.
Only complaints I have are when I get messages on another user than primary I can see the messages in the app but not the message content in the notification, its just a generic alert message like new messages received. Nice to have but not going to make me switch back. And the keyboard doesn’t have swipe typing so I use gboard with network access turned off.
Also I did install the Google app store to get a couple paid apps and calendar/contacts I need to move out of Google. It does sandbox by default which is really cool and i think should be required for phone manufacturers. I just disabled services/store/calendar access to the network after I let it download everything.
Edit: also not a OS thing but I tried switching VPN to orbot/tor at the same time and it is still really unreliable for that use with the way so many sites try to sniff out your location
do you have the ability to remove whichever apps you dont like?
The user notitication makes sense, i guess its more secure. Btw, so everytime you switch user, you have to restart?
Yes, and it comes with very few by default as well
No restart needed, pull down twice and the switcher is on the bottom right. Usually takes just a couple seconds to switch.
thats nice to hear. I thought you need to restart to change profiles.
You’re on the 9a right? How is the battery under Graphene? I used to have the OG Pixel (codename sailfish) and try different roms on there, but the battery is just terrible.
Only complaints I have are when I get messages on another user than primary I can see the messages in the app but not the message content in the notification, its just a generic alert message like new messages received. Nice to have but not going to make me switch back.
I haven’t confirmed it, but enabling “Sensitive notifications” or a similar setting might fix this. Although it is more secure in theory not to have your message content visible on a locked screen.
Also I did install the Google app store to get a couple paid apps and calendar/contacts I need to move out of Google. It does sandbox by default which is really cool and i think should be required for phone manufacturers. I just disabled services/store/calendar access to the network after I let it download everything.
FYI you can use Aurora Store instead to download from Google Play, and even use it anonymously. It’s sometimes buggy, but IMO the tradeoff is maybe worth it.
Sadly iOS is not much better
You can’t sideload on iOS at all.
In eu you kinda can for some degree
Would be really curious to find out how that works. Got any good sources?
You can, but it is a pita. Having to buy dev certs and sign the .ipa file, etc. But technically, if you really want to, you can.
But is it even slightly better? It’s debatable. Both are completely awful, but I guess iOS is just terrible in different ways.
My last iPhone was a iPhone 5. Or 6, maybe?
Fast forward, and I’ve been on Android until right now, when I got an iPhone 16 in a loss-leader sale.
…And I am astounded by how much worse it is. My old jailbroken iPhone’s UI was both simpler and 100x times more customizable and useful than all these bizzare required gestures; I spent days trying to teach my Mom and grandpa how to use it, to no avail. At the same time, its as uncustomizable as ever.
I had basically every feature the 16 has now, like the action button, and more. And it somehow feels slower in browsing than my SD845 Android 9 phone.
It wasn’t perfect back then, but the App Store is flooded with garbage now.
I literally want my iPhone 5 back. WTF has Apple been doing?
They’ve been busy reading the history books to find out what Android did 4 years ago so that they can start developing those same features today. Any remaining time and effort went into creating vacuous marketing hype.
Irony is Android felt way more intuitive, including to my non techy family, even in the worst case (EG Samsung devices with their spammy UI).
true
Google keeps making everything worse.
It’s telling how incompetent they’ve become when their LLM AI is the absolute worst one, including mechahitler before that update.
I like Gemini a lot and use it often, but I did disable it for web search.
Spanish authorities*. Not really European-wide thing, but a local one.
Thanks for these, especially the “we’re not going anywhere” link. I was hesitant to switch because I was worried about future support on my Pixel 7. Here’s the full quote for anyone that didn’t check the above link:
Many companies and individuals are trying to mislead people about the future of GrapheneOS to promote their insecure products and services. GrapheneOS is not going anywhere. We’ve made it clear we’re shipping Android 16 soon and that the supported devices will remain supported.
MS keeps making Windows worse but that is not a problem because Linux is great on PCs. The reason is that PC is made out of standardized plug&play components that you can make generic OS image for.
There is no such thing in smartphone world. Each chipset is it’s own Linux fork that gets only most crucial bug fixes while in warranty. Same is true for ARM SBCs where I believe the only board that supports generic image are new RPis.
Both ARM itself and Linux for ARM has been standardizing a fair bit recently. But not to the extent to be fully generic, mostly just enough for portable bootable kernels - and after that you still need all the same custom drivers and configurations to make proper use of a SoC, but it’s not nothing.
https://linuxgizmos.com/ebbr-spec-to-bring-standardization-to-embedded-linux-boot-process/
The article is 7 years old. Has anything come to fruition since then?
Last update in December
The reason is that PC is made out of standardized plug&play components that you can make generic OS image for.
Yep, given the history of consumer technology as a whole it is really more amazing that the standard PC became a thing more than it is that people put up with what phones are today.
We all really owe a lot of gratitude to Phoenix for reverse engineering the IBM BIOS back in the day, and going to court to fight the IBM copyright lawsuit that resulted, as well as Compaq and all of the other IBM compatible clones.
Two most important open source projects right now are PostmarketOS and Servo.
Can I get a rundown of the few non-flagship phonemakers that are currently out there? I have heard of The Nothing Phone. Are there more companies that put together Androids to operate within the US?
i have oneplus12r this my first non-pixel phone, you might want to visit the oneplus sub to look for other peoples experience. if you are looking for good deal on phones, online stores like swappa is a good start. i like the battery life of it. midsize cost, if your looking for budget , you can go motorola series, i did consider it at first.
Motorola is full of bloatware. Can not recommend.
The hardware is fine, though.
Fairphone just released the Fairphone 6.
Unfortunately for the EU only.
Not true, it can be bought in the US at Murena’s website.
Cool! Last tine I checked out wasn’t there. Must have been added recently.
EU only
Ebay it is. Bands are what matter. If it picks up Tmobile, Tello and the like, who cares who’s market it’s for?
But really, for me, it’s still Android. It’s just a band-aid on the bigger problem of reliance on Google.
Well AT&T banned the (better) international models from their network a while back. They work fine. Just banned.
The big problem with anything not Google or Samsung is, as it’s always been, software support. You get 2 or maybe 3 years of updates and then the device is trash. So you can save a buck on the short term but it will cost you more in the long run and you’ll have shitty devices all the way along anyway.
You can buy a 2 year old Pixel for $2-300 and it will last you another 4-5 years (unless Google remotely nukes your battery).
Just because it doesn’t have latest Android doesn’t mean it’s trash. And Fairphone also aims for 7 years support just like your Pixel example, so your whole point is moot.
It doesn’t need to be the latest android version per se, but I wouldn’t want to use a phone that’s not getting security patches anymore
Not having security updates makes it effectively trash, as far as I’m concerned.
All phones that are sold in the EU now have to have 5 years of updates after the phone is no longer sold.
Basically, all phones have 6+ years of updates now.
You realize there’s a whole rest of the world that’s not the EU?
Oh my fucking god, really?!
You’re so smart, that never occurred to me. I thought that there was only 27 countries in the world, and all of them were in one continent!
Yes, I do realise that, genius. I’m not from an EU country myself.
However, I engaged my brain cells and quickly realised that most phones that exist are sold in the EU, and therefore the OEM has to make and test these updates anyway. In virtually all cases they will then release these worldwide.
Like how the EU mandated USB-C and now it’s worldwide. The EU has quietly become the market that sets international standards over the past 20 years.
I know it seems like I’m being mean in this comment, but fuck me it’s the most Reddit comment ever. A pointless comment just begging to start a pointless argument. Nobody can be bothered with that trolling shit. Do better.
the OEM has to make and test these updates anyway. In virtually all cases they will then release these worldwide
I wouldn’t be so sure. There’s a vested interest in NOT shipping them outside the EU. It’s called planned obsolescence. Just looks at Macs and OCLP. It’s so easy to keep older Macs updated that it’s actually able to be done by some random developers in their free time (not to trivialize this effort, just to say that it would be extremely trivial for Apple as the developer of the OS and one of the most profitable companies in the world to do it). And yet Apple does not ship these updates to them. Why? Because they want you to buy new shit and they know not doing so will render them virtually useless in a short time.
I know it seems like I’m being mean in this comment
You are just being mean and extremely rude. It’s completely unnecessary and I’ve done absolutely nothing to deserve such language. You are actively making this community shittier.
Be rude, someone is rude to you back. Boo hoo.
Trying to bait people into absolutely pointless arguments makes the community shittier.
I wasn’t being rude. That was only you. And since you continue to do so, you can have this argument with yourself. Goodbye.
anything not Google or Samsung is, as it’s always been, software support.
Motorola.has 5 years on most of its new phones nowadays
You get 2 or maybe 3 years of updates and then the device is trash.
Yeah, I’ve noticed this as well…
… which is why I was surprised when I read that Nothing Phone 3 will get 5 years of updates + 2 years of security updates.
https://www.androidauthority.com/nothing-phone-3-software-updates-3568533/
Nothing’s Co-Founder and Head of Marketing, Akis Evangelidis, has confirmed that the upcoming Nothing Phone 3 will ship with a “5+7” software update promise. …likely means the phone will get five years of Android version updates and seven years of security patches…
Although, you can’t install GrapheneOS on Nothing phones… so, 🤷
With the new sustainability laws in EU they have to offer 5 years of updates from the sale of their last unit.
The Ecodesign Regulation lays out minimum requirements for mobile phones, cordless phones and tablets to be sold on the EU market to ensure
- greater resistance to drops, scratches, dust and water
- use of more durable batteries, capable of at least 800 charge cycles while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
- clear rules on disassembly and repair, requiring manufacturers to supply key spare parts within 5-10 working days, and for at least 7 years after the product model is no longer sold in the EU
- longer availability of operating system updates, at least 5 years from the date the last unit model is sold
- fair access for professional repairers to the software or firmware needed for repairs
isnt graphene mostly pixels only.
it’s not “mostly”, it’s only available for several latest Pixel generations.
Yeah that’s great news. Esp. considering it’s an $800+ phone.
Besides Nothing Phone, you’ve got Fairphone (sustainable/repairable), Sony (great cameras), Asus (gaming focused), Nokia (budget-friendly), OnePlus (speed/value), and Xiaomi (if you can import) all working to varying degreees in the US market - tho carrier compatibility can be trickly so always check bands before buying.
Would Moto count? I’ve been rocking their basic-ass phones for years now. Way, way less bloatware than Samsung, etc. and only like $200 unlocked.
I think Moto is actually Lenovo now?
Yup. Motorola is Chinese Lenovo now sadly. Lenovo is absolute trash devices and support.
Been using Moto since Z1 and would say that their phones are fine. $200 for a phone that lasts 4 years is a decent deal.
I think Moto’s are a pretty good budget friendly phone. Sure their update policy is lacking, but the Moto G Power or Moto G Stylus phones come decently equipped. Plus you can still get expandable storage and headphone jacks.
This is false. Lenovo has some of the highest marks for reliability, customer service, and upgradability; not to mention price.
Daily driving the cmf with /e/OS from Murena for few months now, warmly recommended.
Linux phones will hopefully fix that soon(ish)
It’s the year of the Linux phone!
PostmarketOS using Waydroid for the neccessary apps, anyone has experience to share?
It’s gonna be the year of the Linux phone, I can feel it!
the ecosystem is so weak at this time, So maybe in the future it will improve?
Ik you can run Android apps via a container or smth
Still use my Windows Phones with Windows 10 Mobile as my daily drivers. Best OS to date.
I loved my Lumia 1520, but it just doesn’t hold a candle to a modern Android phone with LineageOS installed. Both in functionality and in privacy.
one of the best products Microsoft ever produced. I absolutely LOVED my old Lumia. great phone, the OS was perfect, just an awesome all around phone. wish I still had it.
2 days ago I moved from GrapheneOS back to Stock Pixel in my 8 Pro, just to see what all the hype about the new android 16 in Pixel is about. Jesus, this is way worse than I remember. i tried it for 2 whole days, and that shit just won’t allow me to have ANY control over my phone. It’s fucking ridiculous. On Android 15 I was able to uninstall Google Drive, Meet, Youtube, and many other Google apps, this time around all it would allow was “disable”. What’s next, removing the ability to disable (which I don’t trust anyway)?
Fast forward to today, I’m back on GOS, and my anxiety levels are down again. This shit is insane, and I honestly can’t understand why anyone would put up with this crap.
I’m stuck with Google. No aftermarket OS supports my phone. :(
May I suggest you give RethinkDNS a shot? At first it’s kind of convoluted to configure, but once you have it set up the way you want, it’s smooth sailing from there.
Thanks for the anecdote now i know i can just stay in gos
Please do stay on GOS. I already suffered for 2 days for the whole community.
Most users want those installed, anyway.
That’s a really lousy excuse in support of enshittification.
How do you know most of users want that?
Even if most of them do, that still negatively impacts literally millions of users who don’t want that.
Most is anywhere from 50.1% to 99.9%
So what are you actually saying? Because you aren’t being very precise.
Most people want to engage in hetero sexuality, so everyone who didn’t shouldn’t get to?
That’s the same logic you are using, I highly doubt you would agree that all non hetero relations should be discarded and given a giant middle finger. If you do feel that way JFC go touch grass or whatever
this time around all it would allow was “disable”.
This has been par for other OEM-flavored Android phones for years, unfortunately.
Disableis alright, not that the phone itself isn’t a privacy nightmare in other ways.I’ve been considering moving to GOS because of all the Google shenanigans, but I need to make sure everything works since my job means I have dozens of MS authenticator entries for various admin tasks. I really want to try it out, but can’t afford to have to rebuild all those entries on a new system (and the notifications not work)
Those apps are installed in the squashfs image. Such images are write once, read many and thus they can’t be mutated at runtime.
I know, and that’s exactly my point. They used to be in the user space, now they are in the system partition. They CHOSE to do this.
Yeah. That’s a good point. I don’t know why anyone would put any frequently updated app in squashfs.
I guess you can use the app right after you factory reset even if you don’t have much data which might be something? Are updates smaller since they’re just deltas?
Well who made the decision to put non-system apps in the system partition?
Maybe it was better when Android phones didn’t get updates. Eh? 😉
Mobile GNU/Linux is getting better, but I think it is 5-10 years out from what’s needed. I suppose people need to adopt Desktop first. The nice thing is you can install Android apps including Google Play on it natively, and they appear in your app drawer like a regular app
Unless they get NFC payments working on it and banking apps. It literally will never matter.
The single most common thing phones are used for at this point outside of entertainment is payments and banking.
What’s wrong with tapless payment with cards?
Nothing, but many users have already migrated to using stored payment information on their phones.
you can install Android apps including Google Play on it natively
What whaaaat? I didn’t know this! Thanks for the tip
Yeah how the hell do you do this?
Waydroid, Anbox, etc
Which do you recommend? How well does it work? :)
Waydroid, it’s the wayland continuation of anbox. From what I’ve seen and used, it’s very good. It’s good enough for most mobile apps including gaming. Some linux phone manufacturers even make it a point to integrate waydroid by default to allow you to use android apps just fine
Hell yeah, now I can waste my time in DuoLingo outside of the toilet!!
My big problem is banks and satnav.
SatNav need traffic info and there is none, so their routes are bad.
Banks require apps to even use their website for “secure codes”. Those apps try to detect ROMs and refuse to run, not even really being Android is going to make passing that harder.
Let alone random things like parking apps where the app is the only way to pay.
This is a political problem as much as technical. Competition is basically dead. We need government to step in and make competition possible. But they are in big tech’s pocket and the status quo suits them too. Voters either don’t care or believe what big tech says. It’s a mess.
Satnav there is Pure Maps (OSM client), which can connect to sources like HERE to get traffic data to provide voiced guided turn-by-turn instructions. Of course there is also all the Android apps like Google Maps available, and their mobile site works fine.
On the topic of mobile sites, you can also install them as dedicated app drawer icons via Gnome Web & Firefox PWA for any site.
This means if your bank app doesn’t like vanilla Android, GApps, you can use a comparable dedicated web app.
For parking, I’ve found a surprising amount have mobile sites, so I don’t need to install their bloaty Android app onto my GNU/Linux phone.
It’s a bit of a catch honestly.
OSS/community Linux graphical environments have kind of always been ~5 years out from what’s needed. 15 years ago they were behind ~5 years, 5 years ago they where behind ~5 years.
The only difference is today. I think they’re only behind by ~3-4 years thanks to the backwards movement of things like Windows and OSx staleness.
Mobile operating systems are in a worse place.
I just saw KDE Bigscreen got reboot. While it’s not exactly the same (its for TVs, like Android TV and Steam Big Picture mode), it’s nice to see major desktop environments(DE) adopt new UI features for small and large devices. This compliments work done by groups like PinePhone, who laid the groundwork for Linux phones.
The stupid attempt to have everyone leave bluetooth always on pisses me off. They’ve made the BT quick tile 2 more presses to toggle on or off is ridiculous. It’s not a quick tile.
I’ve just put a BT on/off widget on my home screen.
Could you develop on “attempt to have everyone leave bluetooth” ? What do they want us to use instead ?
“[…] leave bluetooth always on”
There is an Xposed module to replace the tiles back to a simple on/off toggle, for both BT tile and WiFi tile.
You need to grab your control back lol
Also if you don’t have root on your personal Android devices these days… lol may Google have mercy on you lmao (hint: they won’t lol)
I’m thinking about getting the new FairPhone 6 when it comes out and running /e/ OS, but I’m so reliant on Google Maps and Gmail (my email account, not necessarily the app … but I do rely on the app).
I’m afraid that I’ll either install Google apps and end up with a phone just as compromised as a stock Android install, or if I don’t it will be too much of a pain in the ass to use.
There are Maps alternatives. For instance, Organic maps or the fork CoMaps. Not nearly as good UX as Google Maps… and zero traffic data available… but the upside is they work entirely offline.
Organic Maps is great in many ways. It’s maps are so much better. But the lack of traffic data is a killer for route planning in the UK. All the open source maps suffer this. There needs to be open access traffic information for there to be competition.
As far as I know, traffic data is gathered via spying on users—Google Maps and similar apps sending device location to a central cloud service. Maybe somebody could provably anonymize the data somehow to make an alternative service for the open competitors to use.
That’s what we need.
Interesting. Fingers crossed!
I find myself using desktop Linux more than my mobile device, even on the couch with the family. Monitors on arms that can swing out of the way ftw. No cute advice for keyboards though. We have wireless ones around but I still use my wired Deck Legend on my lap. It’s an old mechanical keyboard that’s built like a tank, with the PCB literally mounted to a sheet of metal that is mounted inside the housing, lol.
It’s almost a shame, because smart phones are still absolutely amazing to me as far as the amount of scientific and technical advancement that can fit in the palm of your hand. But I look forward to the open options various parties are working on.
