This is one of the reason that the USA being heavy handed with Chinese is going to bite us in the ass. While in the USA, we bury our heads in the sand and GM, Tesla and etc. all crank out $95,000 giant trucks/SUVs, some companies in China are making very, very affordable vehicles. These aren’t necessarily garbage either – there’s models available for almost any price point.
What WOULD be really smart and forward thinking is if in the USA, the domestic brands also make some affordable models to get EV more popular. However, they are addicted to fat profit margins, and thanks to all the protectionism, they don’t need to worry about offshore models being “better”.
While other nations either develop and/or import affordable EVs, we’re effectively banning them. This is all going to end up with a giant wake up call for American auto-manufacturers when the protections/tariffs are ultimately lifted and they HAVE to compete.
I think it would be great if the tariffs came with huge incentives for domestic manufacturers and motivated them to be competitive. Instead, it’s just letting them segment the market for a few years and make a killing. Who loses? The people…
These cars are passing EU safety tests which are generally more demanding than the USA.
They are definitely getting good, fast.
Not just people, the economy will end up paying the price.
Tariffs have horrible second order effects.
Every companies outputs is some other companies inputs.
American companies end up locked out of more affordable vehicles as inputs. That cost then gets baked into its output, which is some other company’s input. Then just keep following that chain.
The best broad blanket tariffs can hope to do is trade long term competitiveness for some short term price increase.
Americans will wonder why other nations eat our lunch in the coming decades. Well that foreign company could buy the cheaper machine to produce the widget, their raw materials cost less to deliver because the transit company that ships it in charges a better rate because they have lower vehicle overhead. Since they have 2 dozen suppliers for their components both foreign and domestic they are forced to compete on quality and price.
American companies will become even more bloated and inefficient
It was just like what happened to the American auto industry before. Instead of listening to the market, we tell the market what they should buy.
We are losing our edge. People don’t want expensive cars. They want affordable, reliable cars. It was just like earlier Japanese cars. Japan is losing their edge too.
Honda is too unreliable. I won’t buy Honda again.
This is the real reason for tarrifs. Forcing citizens into paying ridiculous prices so biliionares can circle jerk about how much more power they can get. They’re scourges and bottomless voids of resources and misery.
and the people rejoice
Good, continue with the downward spiral.
What a downfall Tesla
USA could have spent money developing an electrified economy but the republicans are focusing on bringing back coal mining and reshoring shoe manufacturing instead.
This admin has set the USA back 100 years.
Especially when you see some of the tech being rocked in Asian cities
This admin has set the USA back 100 years.
Again. They already enshrined “billionaires get all the money” in the one legislative victory of trumps first term.
They already enshrined “billionaires get all the money” in 2008 when the banks got the bailouts instead of the people
bringing back coal mining and horseshoe manufacturing
I think my glasses are smudged
The problem is systemic, it didn’t start with Trump. He’s just way more flagrant.
Which kind of blows my mind. Coal miners should love EVs. There was a story in the news a few years ago about how nice it was for the miners to help someone in an EV, as if they should be mortal enemies.
Non-EV cars don’t run on coal, they run on gasoline. EVs on the other hand can run on coal, natural gas, solar, wind, you name it - and still are more energy efficient than cars burning gasoline. In a sane world, coal miners would be throwing their support behind electric vehicles. The utility companies seem to understand this, but seems like the support hasn’t made its way up the supply chain.
Of course US trucks run on coal. I see them rolling coal all the time! They cant roll coal if it wasnt coal. Duh…
This isn’t exclusively a problem of the new administration, or the previous. All administrations since the late 20th century have been compliant in allowing the offshoring of most industry
It’s not just industry. Now they’re killing the development of skills and knowledge in engineering (hardware, software) and design
But… but… those good ol’ days felt so good! We need to relive those days!
Currently only proper options for EV is either Tesla, Korean EV’s (KIA, Hyundai) or Chinese. European and japanese EV’s are imo shit at the moment. Teslas I will avoid like plague, due to Nazis. KIA’s and Hyundai’s are so hard to get, so I am really considering getting BYD, Polestar or XPeng.
Why’s that? I drove a Cupra Born last week, pretty decent imo. I also drove a VW ID3 and a BMW i3. So far the only European EV I didn’t like was the Audi e-tron. I haven’t driven a Korean or Chinese EV yet, so I can’t really compare. What do you prefer about them?
I currently drive Seat Mii, which is good small EV for city, but for long ranges VW and BMW are behind. Audi’s EV have been disasters. Cupras look good, but because I already have small EV, it doesn’t fit my use case .
ID’s could be ok, but they are over priced in my opinion (at least here).
Edit: for context id4’s starting price is 43k€ here in Finland. 60k€ for id7.
Edit2: Ok started looking those Chinese brands prices also if you buy them here and they are also priced in same range, so ID might be option then also
Eh, ID7 and A6 are getting there. BMW i4 ain’t bad either.
Plenty of good European EVs as well. From a Porsche Taycan to a Dacia Spring, a wide selection. Including wagons/combis and vans.
The Japanese also have good ones, especially Nissan. Leaf and Ariya are decent. Honda kinda gave up and Toyota is indeed terrible, even the Lexus line is behind.
I’m still mad at Toyota because they’ve kept pushing hybrid cards instead of making great EVs.
The Ford Mach E is a good EV.
Only heard good things about them, but aren’t they few generation’s old now. Not that next gen is always better, but EV’s have gone quite big generational steps.
Edit: and for context I drove Seat Mii at the moment and I love it to pieces, but it works only in city, not long range.
The small Renault’s are actually more than decent EVs and can be compared to the Hyundai Inster.(With the later being the closest to a “high quality EV for everyone” I have seen. Fantastic car, small, comparable cheap, secure. They need to get a bit cheaper still,but we are getting closer)
If you are filthy rich the Porsches are decent, same goes for some of the BMW. The Nissan Arya is also okayish, so are Mercedes.
But yeah, Korea has the absolute king of the hill atm. I drive an EV6 (pre facelift). And honestly? It’s the most “fun” and “comfortable” car I ever had - and I used to have lots of expensive company cars in the past (Audi A4,A5,A6, BMW 5, Volvo), often with "lights and sirens " installed and drove Seat,Skoda,Hyundai, Volvo privately.
None of them were as fun. None of fhem were as versatile and comfortable. And funny enough I safe enormous amounts of money.
And all the downsides people worry about? So far I didn’t have any.
Charging? Absolutely no issue - beside the fact that my sparky is shit and I still don’t have a home box (but a 200 bucks mobile box off Amazon helps). Even with long distances it’s no issue - even in remote locations I had a chance to charge,often easier to find than petrol. And on regular trips it takes as much time to go to the toilet and get me a coffee. Which I would also do with petrol… So in fact I save a few minutes. Even under these circumstances I pay half compared to what I payed for petrol.
Battery issues? The car is used. So far: Zero degradation. We had it assessed by a professional company recently.
The only two issues it has: Preconditioning is somewhat random (which has been solved with the facelift) and the fact that the drivers profile is not based on the key sucks.
EV6 is probably the best in tech, like the 800V system.
Have you had the issue with iccu? They are unfortunately quite common, friend of mine had it. They will fully fix it, but it takes up to month to fix because they don’t have spare parts.
I have Seat Mii, and I also think it is best car purchase that I have ever made
Even before the current political situation I wouldn’t have bought a Tesla. They have a documented quality problem and not very good customer service at least outside of the US.
Why would I buy a car that is not only more likely than most to break but when it does break it’s hard to get fixed. Spare parts are notoriously hard to get hold of and you usually have to deal with Tesla directly which is a problem because they don’t have a lot of dealerships in the UK. Also they won’t come to you, so if your car won’t start you have to arrange a pickup.
They have terrible customer service in the US too. I think it’s their business model: find people who enjoy being treated like an asshole and sell them overpriced shit.
So like Apple but more expensive
I think it also has to do with the economy, not just nazi salutes. Its a bad job market, people dont have money, so luxary cars are not going to be attractive.
Also there is hardly any reason to buy a Tesla… Volvo recharge and others are better cars, made by actual car companies with a good reputation for quality.
There are plenty of Europeans that still have money. These are aimed at the upper upper classes and people in those strata have not been feeling the economic pinch the way many of us have.
it definitely has to do when musk being a nazi.
Tesla used to be the brand, the good quality car, the one that you want to get.
(at least that was how the public saw it, car affictionados don’t count)
now it’s just cringe
Tesla has NEVER been the good quality car. Ever.
Tesla was the techy car. The fast car. The fun car. The virtue signaling car. The convienent car. Lots of things, but they have never been the good quality car.
Idk why are you being downvoted. Musk being a nazi is the last of the problems for Tesla. They had being outcompete by BYD in every measure.
Me, my friends, my colleagues are the target audience for Model 3/Y’s. I drive a Model 3 and some colleagues do as well. Pretty much all of them and myself say the same thing: The cars top the list in terms of value versus price and has the features we want and need, but we will not buy or (company) lease a Tesla (again) due to the nazi in charge. Simple as that.
At this point, people don’t even take Tesla’s into consideration anymore due to the nazi. So I would say that’s far worse than the competition with BYD.
Exactly the same for me and my circle. I got a model 3 and got at least 3 colleagues and friends to buy one after a test drive.
I won’t sell it now because it’s still a good car and I would lose a ton of money to replace it with something equivalent, but I put a fuck elon sticker on it, canceled the connectivity, avoid superchargers when possible and no longer recommend it to people.
I’m looking for a second car and used Teslas are crazy value right now but out of principle they are out of the question. Probably will go for a Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, VW ID.3 or BMW i3.
The mentioned cars are somewhat outdated.
You might also want to consider newer models like Renault 5, Skoda Elroq or Hyundai Ioniq.
Fair point, but I’m looking to buy used (i3 hasn’t been made for a few years already).
We bought a second hand i3 (2014) model for my SO to drive to work and back (short distances). The range is objectively horrible (about 100 km), but sufficient for my SO’s needs. Overall, we love the car! It’s so much fun to drive, and very efficient due to its light carbon fiber chassis. The car does everything we expect of it and we run it very cheap.
Such a waste BMW didn’t iterate on the i3/i8 sooner. They would’ve knocked Tesla out of the water before they could even learn how to swim.
That’s exactly our requirement, if budget allows even getting the 90Ah model for 150km. Plus I love the looks, weird and futuristic. Thanks for sharing!
Telsa used to be a status symbol, and sexy.
But then their chief chap couldn’t seem to publicly pronounce the popular phrase “Nazi’s suck and I wish to have nothing to do with them”.
Now Telsa is an anti-status symbol.
And in the US we just block foreign options because it is gov policy to artificially support specific corporations.
I think that’s the invisible hand of the market. The visible part is the products you don’t get to have.
the country of free market capitalism…
I don’t think that has ever been true, really. Nor should it be, Laissez Faire is a trainwreck waiting to happen, probably literally and figuratively.
Textbooks will tell you that the USA, and other countries like China and Russia, are a regulated “Market System” which in some markets teeters on strict Oligopoly.
it’s only true in propaganda.
Oddly libertarians never acknowledge that market leaders ask for theses things. The biggest threat to the free market are capitalists themselves.
They know, they just have too much invested in their 401k.
American libertarianism is just a form of nationalism mixed with a strong dose of “don’t nose into muh life”
There are 2 types of libertarians.
One group is comprised of people who think the government should basically keep the military going, and handle foreign relations when that doesn’t impede private citizens.
The other group is just Republicans who don’t like being called Republicans.
Looking forward to Tesla reporting Q2 earnings next month. I assume another round of disastrous numbers paired up with some vaporware distraction. Perhaps they can keep this charade going, but at some point reality will catch up.
Just give Elon more of some new drug. /s
Is gonna go up, Elon said they’ll have full autonomous this year! /s
I own BYD and it is a great car. Very pleased with it.
how many cameras does it have? be pleased about all your, and your neighbourhoods everydays be uploaded to china, to train face recognition and whatever else
I hate teslas, but byd’s are not even slightly better in my eyes.
I don’t like the feeling that we may never see a consumer friendly EV anymore, but only ones that exploit their users in any ways they can
China can have all the images they want from my car’s. I don’t live in China or anywhere near them. I’m more concerned about US made EVs and their surveillance because I travel there regularly, and they are digging hard on everything for people coming into the US.
I live neither in china or the usa, but I don’t want myself be recorded by either of their appliances that I use. and that naturally also extends to my neighbors and wherever I go.
its quite interesting how many people suddenly started to love mass surveillance
Don’t know why exactly are you downvoted but this is exactly what is going on as cars get more ”connected”, following Tesla & BYD lead. Just like with phones at the moment, everything tries to spy on you a little to tap into that sweeet targeted ad revenue, or something else.
For example I bet the insurance companies love to have some driver behaviour data about you, and the big retail likes to know where/what time you are on the move (though they already get it from the dozens of apps on your phone that have access to location data, like Google Maps).
Heard it can be hard / expensive if you need to order spare parts and stuff like that. Anything to that?
That’s halfway true, depending on the part, and where you live. But the warranty they provide (at least in my country) covers everything that you don’t damage yourself, and the warranty is transferable if you sell it still being under warranty.
The only expense I’ve had with mine are new tires and correcting some body scratches caused by other people (and public charging if on long road trips, because I charge at home with solar power).
We have 2 BYD plug-in EVs in our house, absolutely delighted with the brand. Before that I had a Model 3 Tesla, which I could not get rid of fast enough.
Honor where honor is due, Tesla did open the door for mainstreaming EVs, there’s no doubt about it, but it was through marketing based on gimmicks, not through quality products. But the reality is that BYD, Xiaomi, Avatr and a few other Chinese manufacturing cars are way better value and even quality than their Occidental counterparts.
as customers switch to Chinese EVs
Sure. That’s the reason.
I don’t think that’s what they meant. I think they are just saying that people are still buying EVs, but they are just going to Chinese and other manufacturers instead of buying a Tesla. The article specifically calls out the stupid shit Elon has been doing.
Which is important because about a year ago the headlines were saying EV sales were collapsing. In fact, it was just Tesla having less market share of new EVs sold because other manufacturers got off their ass.
Not even sure it’s that true though. Afaik BYD is only the 14th most popular car in Denmark, and European brands have risen from around ~28% last year to ~40% this year. Sure, Chinese carmakers have had some growth - but we’re talking in the order of something between 2 - 4% of the market. Might be more popular in other countrues
I wonder where you’re getting this information. BYD alone is second worldwide if you account for the US market, and 1st if you don’t.
59% of all EVs sold in January of this year were Chinese.
Which owes to how gigantic the Chinese market is. They now have a 5% market share for new cars in Europe - which this article is about. It doesn’t matter if they top global sales just because there are so many Chinese buyers
Ah. Good to know- I didn’t read the article, but that’s kind of my point, really. Most people don’t, and media outlets know that. The headline is all that “carries”. A better headline would include the Nazi stuff AND Chinese EVs. I think they deliberately avoided that and tucked it in the article.
My dude you can’t admit you didn’t read the article then defend the fact that you didn’t read it like that. Just read it and then comment lol
My comment is about the headline. Yes?
I read that. Everyone read that. That’s what my comment is referring to.
You could just say, “you’re right, I probably should have.”
Try it sometime, it’s nice.
“the headline is wrong”
Wahhhh you didn’t read the article!
“that’s true. you’re right. I probably should have. Where I would then return to the single sentence that I’m referring to and nothing will have changed. Do you even understand what I’m talking about? Because that would be nice.”
The headline to me clearly is stating that people are not buying Teslas and are buying alternative Chinese based EVs instead. I think that anyone that’s heard Elon’s name over the past 6 months can read between the lines and understand the causation here.
Well - I would hope. But that’s not the same as putting it in there is it.
“Tesla sales drop as EU consumers choose Chinese brands plus Musk is y’know WINK”
I mean, I can see why they didn’t go with that one but still. There are plenty of people who don’t understand Elmo is an out-and-out nazi, cozy with putin and Peter Thiel and will destroy the country as soon as possible. Not mentioning him and his drugged-out asinine ideas in the headline is a missed opportunity.
The title isn’t there to tell the whole story though. It should give a high level summary and then the details are in the article. If you hypothetically put something like what you suggested, it still doesn’t give all of the context, and the title would need to be longer to include the history of Musk, his drug use, his position with Tesla, etc, and you can’t put that all in the title. I’m all for dunking on that Nazi whenever we can, but I personally don’t think that the title of this article deserves any criticism, especially in the age of clickbait titles that don’t give anything, this one is decently descriptive.
I’ll give you that. I just want more. Elmo’s such a stain that not factoring it directly to Tesla-going-down stories seems like skimping.
Hitler was “incendiary” and “political” but I think there’s a four-letter word so much better, so much more concise, that this wording is actual disinformation.
Journalists do Nazi what you’re talking about.
CNBC didn’t here. So it’s a lie.
Data published Wednesday by ACEA found that Tesla’s car sales in the European Union, Britain and the European Free Trade Association fell to 13,863 units in May, down 27.9% year on year.
Tesla’s European market share also dropped to 1.2% from 1.8% in May 2024.
European/other than China EV makers also did well, that this and other headlines this year, intentionally obfuscate. The combination of both above numbers means overall EV growth was about 25%. 93% is non US/China.
