What are the odds this stands up in court? It seems like an easy legal victory for TikTok.
On what basis? The legal power of the US government to break up or otherwise force divestment of corporate assets is the basis upon which antitrust law is built. The only way this law could be overturned is it’s found unconstitutional, and if that happens, you can say goodbye to the FTC.
On the grounds that they are not breaking it up because it has monopoly but because they don’t like it can be used for Chinese propaganda. Which is limiting speech.
Also, they require it to be sold to non-chinese buyer, which is discriminatory.
See my reply to your sibling comment. This is wishful thinking. You could be right, but it’s just as likely (I’d argue more likely) you’re wrong.
Sorry if it sounded like I did not think TikTok is used for espionage. I am sure it is, just like Google, Facebook, etc. are used by the NSA (thanks Snowden for giving us proof of this). Its just funny to me that the US gov has to resort to banning it, because they spent years convincing people Tech Giants spying on them is ok. And now when they say don’t use TikTok, everyone laughs at them.
I couldn’t agree more. IMO the right solution is to regulate data collection, mandate algorithmic transparency, and require opt out for algorithmic curation.
But the discussion isn’t about whether this is the right remedy (IMO it’s not) but about whether the remedy will be held up by the courts.
Well, I think the courts should strike it down because:
- It is content based speech regulation (Chinese influence on people), which deserves strictest scrutiny under the 1st amendment.
- It targets TikTok by name, which triggers equal protection issue. Congress is not allowed to pass a law that specifically bans Tom Holland from smoking. Laws need to be general. I don’t see why this would be an exception.
Pretty sure it’s because tiktok is literal Chinese Spyware designed to let them listen through any device that has tiktok installed.
Like I get people are getting pissy about losing a favored social media but let’s not act like it’s not actually a real potential issue.
As opposed to every other social media? If they want to protect privacy, Congress is allowed to pass privacy laws that apply to all companies. They are not allowed to single just one out.
What other social medias are based in countries that want to manipulate American citizens in an attempt to destabilize our democracy?
So its not an issue if american companies destabilize your democracy? Just foreign ones?
Yeah I see the irony in my argument.
Idk I just don’t see something like that in the hands of an external force that wants to see us fall as a good thing.
At least with American companies I can tell myself “well at least they live here so they’re less likely to want to fuck it all up”
Like I said I see the irony but still have severe reservations.
They’re based in Singapore and Los Angeles.
Meta is based in America and it seems that this is the country that wants to destabilize american democracy the most.
The social media at home (ie Twitter, Facebook, reddit) have been manipulating all citizens into destabilizing democracy with all the right-wing propaganda and it is getting worse every day. I can go to Twitter any day of the week and see some slander in the “What’s hot” section for any democratic/liberal leader while ass licking every conservative one depending on which country you are from. And the posts are mostly made by young Russian/etc bots. The problem is it seems to be working.
It’s not just tik tok thats used for this shit. But the others are OK because they are 'MURICAN? It’s a double standard. I’m not defending tik tok, but I personally think Twitter, etc need to be sold as well.
I agree it’s a double standard.
I suppose for me personally it falls into the us us them ideology. I feel better with those companies at least having stake in the country they exist in.
Idk the more I think about it the more I realize how naive of a thought that is but I just don’t like the idea of an enemy of the US having that power over US citizens.
Where are you getting that from? Seriously if I saw that from a reputable malware reporter I’d support this in an instant. If this is true please link your source.
Yeah! I only want American spyware! USA! USA! USA!
Lmao. Then bring an anti-trust case? That power is specifically in reference to that and requires the government to prove it’s case in court. Not just make a declaration.
You’re missing my point.
In the case of antitrust law, the government has to prove its case in court because that’s the way the Sherman Act and related laws are written, not because the constitution necessarily requires it.
Moreover, TikTok is owned by a Chinese organization. If I’m wrong and the constitution does protect corporations from forced divestment, it wouldn’t apply to TikTok. This is much closer to protectionist trade policy and I’m not aware of any cases where such acts were found to be unconstitutional. For example, Huawei was banned from American markets on national security grounds and while challenged in court, those challenges were defeated.
To be clear: I am not saying I support this ban one way or the other. I’m saying the belief that this will easily be struck down in court is misguided and that it’s not an obvious slam dunk.
Huawei was banned from critical infrastructure. You can still buy their products for personal use.
And the Anti-Trust laws were written that way because that’s the Due Process the Constitution demands. The executive cannot just declare something punitive. That has been the standard for over 200 years.
Also, if there aren’t rights for foreigners in the US then there aren’t rights for citizens. Because the loss of your rights is always just one declaration away. Which is why rights for everyone inside our borders has been the standard for 70 years.
Huawei was banned from critical infrastructure. You can still buy their products for personal use.
In what way does that invalidate it as an example?
The executive cannot just declare something punitive.
CFIUS and OFAC would beg to differ.
Also, if there aren’t rights for foreigners in the US then there aren’t rights for citizens. Because the loss of your rights is always just one declaration away. Which is why rights for everyone inside our borders has been the standard for 70 years.
Bytedance isn’t inside your borders and the constitution doesn’t protect extra-nationals. There’s a reason Guantanamo Bay still exists.
You wouldn’t be able to use TikTok as a personal thing. This isn’t critical infrastructure.
(CFIUS) is a powerful interagency panel that screens foreign transactions with U.S. firms for potential security risks.
So again. Not personal use. Also, refunding an investment is entirely different than shutting down a business.
And LMAO. If Bytedance wasn’t inside the borders then this wouldn’t matter. Saying they aren’t inside the borders is possibly the most hilarious bad faith thing I’ve seen in this entire debacle.
You wouldn’t be able to use TikTok as a personal thing. This isn’t critical infrastructure.
I’m sorry, but this is irrelevant. Look at the list of CFIUS cases. Among them:
CFIUS requested that Chinese gaming company Beijing Kunlun Tech Co Ltd. sell Grindr, citing national security concerns regarding a database of user’s location, messages, and HIV status, after the company acquired the gay dating app in 2018 without CFIUS review.
Would you agree that Grindr probably doesn’t count as “critical infrastructure”?
(BTW, before you mention it, the CFIUS case on that list vis a vis TikTok was reversed by the court because they ruled the executive exceeded the bounds of the IEEPA, not because the IEEPA itself was unconstitutional).
(CFIUS) is a powerful interagency panel that screens foreign transactions with U.S. firms for potential security risks.
So again. Not personal use.
LOL security risks are literally the justification for the bill. The bill even says as much:
To protect the national security of the United States from the threat posed by foreign adversary controlled applications, such as TikTok and any successor application or service and any other application or service developed or provided by ByteDance Ltd. or an entity under the control of ByteDance Ltd.
So if CFIUS is constitutional, then I fail to see why this law is any different.
Look, again, I get it, I think the law is dumb, too.
But it is absolutely not a slam dunk that the law will get struck down by the courts, whether you like it or not.
The difference between your position and mine is I can acknowledge I may turn out to be wrong.
Furthermore, ByteDance absolutely is not operating within US borders. It’s incorporated in China and the Caymans (in the latter case as a variable interest entity so that Americans can buy economic exposure to ByteDance shares that otherwise don’t trade on any US stock exchanges).
TikTok, a wholly own subsidiary, is incorporated within the US. A forced divestiture affects the parent company (ByteDance).
The real question is whether the ban itself, if divestment doesn’t occur, would be constitutional, given that would affect TikTok Ltd., and that, to me, is unclear, and I expect it’s that portion of the law where TikTok is most likely to succeed in courts.
The question is indeed constitutionality. But I disagree with you about any major effect on the FTC. Details matter, and this looks to be a situation where the details don’t look good for the government. A court could easily find that this was handled improperly, and leave the rest of the framework as it is.
Normally yeah but this was a called hit by the wealthy donor class. The same ones giving million dollar vacations to the Supreme Court judges.
I’m convinced that US lawmakers believe that the pro-gaza sentiment is coming from TikTok. The timing, the mechanism. They see themselves as no longer able to control the narrative and are blaming ‘non-US’ social media.
I’d like to point out that the US has been publicly going after TikTok since the Trump Administration so I’m unconvinced that the timing lines up.
I think it’s more so just about controlling narratives in general. Tiktok has a lot of real time tracking of politician corruption and trades. A lot of good useful info for political activism, etc.
Now they can move to better platforms like mastodon, lemmy, peertube, pixelfed, which unlike tiktok, can be hosted outside the U.S. and don’t seek to suck every bit of data out of every user.
Arguably better platforms to organize activism, especially in conjunction with secure chat apps out of the U.S. control.
So did Twitter and even in the Pre-Elon days the Federal Government didn’t go after it like this.
And yet it finally got the momentum to succeed now, during all these Gaza protests and when the US-Israeli mainline narratives have been starting to break down for the first time.
“The Chinese oligarchs are taking over!” - US oligarchs probably
US oligarchs most definitely
Buy vertical videos you won’t be missed by anybody with a brain in their head.
If only. Vertical videos suck and short form sucks harder.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Flush that garbage away forever, I say. It’s garbage and turds.
Tiktok style video selfie mode talking about random bullshit is the worst kind of social media invented yet. Nobody should care what your random face looks like watching some other bullshit on social media. There’s no need for that level of narcissism in society, we have more than enough everywhere else.
I can’t believe this is the one thing this congress has actually managed to do. We just want healthcare
You’ll take your overpriced medicine from your out of network pharmacy and you’ll like it. At the fake markup price. And good luck getting that ultrasound, they’re going to code the billing wrong so instead of it being $40 it’s $1000. That’s freedom talking.
And good luck getting that ultrasound, they’re going to code the billing wrong so instead of it being $40 it’s $1000.
🎶 Ain’t that America! Home of the free baby! 🎶
Bald eagle screeches
You pick up what Uncle Sam is throwing down!
I want both.
Healthcare!?! Who needs healthcare when Congress is giving us our god given freedom of domestic surveillance capitalism, which is the freedomist freedom that ever freedomed, you filthy communist!
So anyway, I started violating civil liberties… PEW PEW
I have mixed feelings. Like I’m glad we’re funding Ukraine, angry we’re finding Israel, and mixed about TikTok. I dislike the app, but that’s no reason to ban something. I think all social media has the issues associated with it except one: a foreign country controls the algorithm. Also this is standard policy for foreign companies in China and turnabout is fair play.
Here comes POS billionaire like Moron Musk to buy TikTok and turn it into Nazi propaganda machine
Nah, it’ll get sold to a company registered in the US or Europe that is funded by various shell companies and private investment groups, most of which will be owned by Chinese Billionaires.
can we ban or move YouTube shorts elsewhere while we are at it?
Why? Just don’t watch them.
They’re noise in the search results. If there was a “no shorts” filter, I would have used it long ago.
Revanced and FreeTube.
exactly, i just want videos not noise. i wish Google would make a different app and website focused on shorts
Just block them vua Adblock.
This comment section is astounding.
If you think it’s good that congress passed a ban of a social media platform tied to a bill funding two foreign wars you’re either a fed or delusional.
Is that picture AI-generated? The article claims it’s from GettyImages and shot on Capitol Hill, but… The signs are too perfect. They all follow the name design, the text in crispy clear, the colours uniform, and the sign itself 1 atom thin.
It’s simply photoshopped.
Almost like they were part of a coordinated campaign
Not to take a page out of tin foil hat gangs book, but paid protesters imo. Byte dance probably funded them and had the signs made / distributed amongst them.
Uh yeah, TikTok 100% coordinated those signs. It doesn’t invalidate the protest, many of them use coordinated signs.
It seems like a lot of people think moves like this are about actual national security like congress claims,
I mean to an extent it is. America is mad China has a platform that’s popular with Americans that they can’t control. The effects of this were shown with the fact that America couldn’t control the narrative over the Israel-Palestine issue after October 7th. So to increase national security and try to gain back the control they had they’re getting rid of TikTok.
define national security
Narrative control != National Security in a Democracy.
I agree that the government attempting to have this kind of control in a democracy is wrong but it still does provide national security. Security is good but can be taken too far and in all honestly we’ve been very far past what’s too far for a while with stuff like the Patriot act.
It blows my fuckin mind now damn stupid the average American is
Too bad we can’t ban Meta, Twitter, and Snapchat while we’re at it.
won’t happen
Where do you think the FBI gets their domestic terrorist intel from 😂
Fuck IKR, call the cops because someone side swiped your car and you’ll get no response. Get on FB or Twitter and talk about how you’re planning a bombing and federal agents will show up at your house.
TikTok will cut a deal to send your dick picks to Greenbelt.
Truth social
This is not a ban and it was never meant to be. They just force tiktok to sell the US market to a US company. Said US company will continue the platform just like it is at the moment, just with a bit more of that sweet American propaganda mixed into it. Tiktok won’t be gone, all that data will just go to the NSA instead of the CCP, that’s all they wanted.
China says they’re not selling TikTok, which makes it a ban, which is excellent news, actually.
Seriously! Ban everything that is bad for people! That has never backfired ever
I mean, remember when we banned all those really bad and dangerous horror comics and nearly collapsed a whole industry of artists, publishers, and distributors for an entire generation so we could feel morally superior about our own hypercritical actions and interests?
We’re really making things great again now!
^^/s
Reading through these comments… yikes guys. I use TikTok sometimes, and love the content it provides that YouTube does not provide. Seeing the straight up hate for the app, mixed with the misunderstanding of what the app CAN be if you actually use it, is chilling to say the least. If they were banning ALL social media apps, and their companies, I’d be all for this. As it is, I can not see why you would all be cheering so hard for TikTok to be sold to some American asshole, just for it to start getting enshittified, and then STILL sell your data to Russia, China, and anyone else who wants a slice. The fact you are all hating on TikTok so much, but not questioning our own American social media companies, and wanting them to be banned too, is frightening.
I’ve seen a few comments saying it is spyware. On iOS at least, there is an icon that pops up to let you know when an app is using your camera or microphone. Not only that, but when you start an app for the first time, it has to request to you the user if you want to allow it access to these things. I said no, of course, because when I first started using it, I fucking hated TikTok. Turns out, when you use it for like a week, it starts to get REALLY good at delivering content you want to see.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter, as I’m sure plenty of you will disagree, complain, and then go on using your American owned social medias, that are still hoovering up and selling your data.
The only differences being that China wasn’t making a cent out of me, nor do any of these equally shitty American social medias. Oh well, I guess we just really love our own little national narratives.
Its all to get around passing a real privacy law with teeth.
CCPA (in California) is a good first step. Ideally something similar should be enacted for the entire country.
lmao, they don’t want a real privacy law, they want to have a monopoly in spying on Americans.
Not only that, they want to have a monopoly on on what kind of media content gets delivered to americans.
Americans are already being spied on by the Chinese!
TikTok is nothing more than a Chinese misinformation farm/spy ware.
The spying is going to happen no matter what we do! If I had to pick the lesser of the two evils I’d rather have America spy on me than China!
Why do bots! Love exclamation marks! So much!
No! You have to interspace the exclamation marks. Otherwise you look crazy!
Healthcare? Nah, let’s fight about it for decades and never give people anything meaningful. Education? Nah, let’s make our people go neck deep into debt and still fight about it for decades. Ban TikTok? Hold my bribery, you got it. Gimme 24 hours and you got it, boss.
We can’t solve real issues because then we couldn’t keep the American populace overworked, sick, and unable to fight back.
You don’t want healthcare. Because we said so.
