For example, I’m using Debian, and I think we could learn a thing or two from Mint about how to make it “friendlier” for new users. I often see Mint recommended to new users, but rarely Debian, which has a goal to be “the universal operating system”.
I also think we could learn website design from… looks at notes …everyone else.

  • Pacmanlives@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    OpenSuSe - snapper for taking btrfs snapshots and rolling back. It’s basically a bulletproof way to do updates and recovery. Get a bad update or change a config in correctly you can roll back. Updates it automagically does this for you

    • Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org
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      5 months ago

      Possible in Debian. The SpiralLinux guy (who also made Gecko Linux) has it set up on install.

  • lnxtx@feddit.nl
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    5 months ago

    Gentoo - patience.
    But seriously. With the USE flags, compiler options, you can understand software more from a developer’s point of view.
    You can try to optimize software for your hardware.
    Fully explore the configure options. With a binary package you have no control.

    • Simmy@lemmygrad.ml
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      5 months ago

      How are those new binary applications coming along? is it feasible to mix. I don’t want to compile everything.

      • lnxtx@feddit.nl
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        5 months ago

        Quite useful if you don’t mess with the USE. I can be mixed.
        I recently tested the binary option, I set desired profile (eselect profile list) and it just worked™.
        Some applications still require manual compilation, e.g. llvm, gcc, systemd.

  • BaumGeist@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    I also think we could learn website design from… looks at notes …everyone else.

    whacks you with a rolled up newspaper No! Bad. Wrong.

    There is a beauty to simplicity that’s lost on so many. I can load a Debian wiki page over a dial-up connection at the south pole. The design is uncluttered and uncomplicated. That goes for every page on debian.org

    I often see Mint recommended to new users, but rarely Debian, which has a goal to be “the universal operating system”.

    I always took “universal” to be in the sense of “universal remote”: it’s not universally adopted, it’s universally applicable. The fact that it’s the upstream of so many major distros (including Mint) indicates that it’s accomplished that.

    Making it “new user” friendly necessarily requires restrictions and choices made by the maintainers for the ease of the users, which negates the “unversality.”

  • sepulcher@lemmy.ca
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    5 months ago

    I totally agree with your assessment about Mint and Debian.

    I like Debian’s minimal approach, but I think minimal can also be user-friendly.

    I still has a nice installer, though.

  • 0x0@programming.dev
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    5 months ago

    The universal operating system keeps dropping support for archs few people use… how universal, eh?

    • LeFantome@programming.dev
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      5 months ago

      Ya, that bothers me too. Not enough to contribute time to prevent it though. So, I do not have much moral standing to complain.

  • 0x0@programming.dev
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    5 months ago

    Slackware - if it ain’t broken don’t fix it. Gentoo - USE flags. Mint - user-friendly.

    • KISSmyOSFeddit@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Slackware is broken, though.

      • Its releases are so far apart that the default installer stops working in between releases cause it can’t handle the changes to the repos.
      • Its default software selection is outdated, makes no sense (multiple tools for the same task), and is grouped illogically. If I want to run Xfce, I shouldn’t have to install the KDE group to satisfy necessary dependencies. If I install the base group, all dependencies for using the package manager should be satisified. And Libreoffice shouldn’t be installable only via an unofficial, unsupported third party repo.
      • Its documentation is so outdated it isn’t useful anymore:
        https://docs.slackware.com/howtos:slackware_admin:installing_on_uefi_hardware

      “Some modern computers have started to offer motherboards that use Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) as a replacement for the traditional BIOS.”

  • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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    5 months ago

    The Debian website is trash and I’m glad to see it acknowledged. People always take criticism of the website as of folks are saying it looks ugly. No. The layout is just icky.

  • 3w0@lemmy.sdf.org
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    5 months ago

    Alpine & OpenBSD with CLI installers, minimalism, lack of bloat and strong KISS philosophies, they remind me of what Arch Linux used to be – I don’t want any crapware if possible (dbus, systemd, polkit, logind etc). Just nice and simple.

    The only one I have installed is dbus, unless you want to manually patch it out it’s pretty much everywhere (Gentoo is nice for this).

  • barbara@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    All distros, or none: flatpak has to improve in regards to launching an app from terminal. Following is a joke:

    flatpak run com.github.iwalton3.jellyfin-media-player
    
    • biribiri11@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      It’d be dangerous if an installed app claimed to be something like sudo or bash. Even if a mechanism was created for flatpak apps to claim a single shell command, there is no centralized authority on all flatpak apps to vet them. If there was for flathub, and each uploaded package was checked, that still leaves every other non-flathub flatpak repo which must implement the same vetting. Because there’s no way to guarantee to do it safely, and because flatpak devs are unwilling to compromise, this is just what we get.

      https://github.com/flatpak/flatpak/issues/1188

      • baseless_discourse@mander.xyz
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        5 months ago

        However in the same way, compromised flatpak app can also put a malicious .desktop file in ~/.share/applications, which also allows execution of arbitrary command, even outside of the flatpak sandbox.

        User home permission is just incredibly dangerous on linux, I think we need special permission to explicitly allow access to these folders in home. Fortunately more and more app starts to support portal, which makes them much more secure.

        Although, I do wish portal would have a edit per session vs edit forever option. For now if you open a folder through portal, the app was granted r/w permission to that folder forever.

    • breadsmasher@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Why can’t the installation create aliases like

      flatpak run jellyfin-media-player ? And then highlight conflicts during?

      • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        It would also be nice if it could alias to the normal command, for example, LibreOffice with CLI commands like lowriter or localc.

        Did you know you can evoke LibreOffice from the terminal to convert one file format to another? It can do what Pandoc does, but also works on old .doc files. Flatpak’s weird CLI behavior makes it difficult to use though.

    • thingsiplay@beehaw.org
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      5 months ago

      This is extremely simple to fix with scripts that can be automatically created on install time. Here is a quick script I just wrote. It will search for first matching app and run it. Just save the script as flatrun, give it executable bit and put it into $PATH. Run it as like this: flatrun freetube

      #!/usr/bin/env bash
      
      # flatrun e
      # flatrun freetube
      
      if [ "${#}" -eq 0 ]; then
      	flatpak list --app --columns=name,application
      else
      	app="$(
      		flatpak list --app --columns=name,application |
      			grep -i -F "${@}" |
      			awk -F'\t' '{print $2}'
      	)"
      
      	if [ -z "${app}" ]; then
      		flatpak list --app --columns=name,application
      	elif [[ "$(echo "${app}" | wc -l)" -gt 1 ]]; then
      		echo "${app}"
      	else
      		flatpak run "${app}"
      	fi
      fi
      

      Edit: Just updated the script to output the list of matching apps, if it matches more than one.

      • rollingflower@lemmy.kde.social
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        5 months ago

        Yes and I did a similar script but “just create a script” is a really bad solution.

        Apps should need to declare a shortname and flatpak should have a shortcut for those with a separated command like flatrun.

        • _NoName_@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          I think a good solution would to just have that script autogenerated by the flatpak, honestly.

        • thingsiplay@beehaw.org
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          5 months ago

          I personally don’t think that creating a script is a bad solution. The entire Linux eco system is based around composable components (especially when we talk about terminal commands). Most of the Flatpak applications are available through GUI menus (.desktop files) and that’s the focus of Flatpak. And I think it’s a design decision not to expose every application as a separate program in the $PATH by default. This way there is less of a chance to collide with anything random on the system, if they have the same name.

          Having said this, I still agree it would be beneficial for most users if there was a way to automatically create scripts in a special bin folder, that is available in the $PATH. The problem is, what application name should it have? What about different versions of the same program? The entire Flatpak concept was not designed for this, so creating a script for your personal use is not a bad solution.

            • thingsiplay@beehaw.org
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              5 months ago

              Please read my reply before you repeat. How should the different versions of an application be handled? What if the shortname is already taken? There will be collisions, which the longname tries to solve. Flatpak is not a repository where all names can be checked against, this is the job of a repository like Flathub. What about different versions of an application?

              This is not a simple case of forcing to specify shortnames.

    • lemmyreader@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      flatpak run com.github.iwalton3.jellyfin-media-player

      You can use /var/lib/flatpak/exports/bin/com.github.iwalton3.jellyfin-media-player instead. and then create aliases or symlinks (for example in ~/bin/) for that.

  • Titou@feddit.de
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    5 months ago

    If you want Debian but user-friendly, just use Mint, Debian is easy enough to install. It’s like asking Gentoo or Arch to drop a easy installer, it would break the point of using it.

    • pmk@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
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      5 months ago

      Would it detract from Debian if it had an installer which was more intuitive to new users? As long as they don’t remove the options to configure, I see no harm, only benefits. To me, the thing about Debian is that it’s a community. If a distro wants to be elitistic, sure, that’s up to them, but I don’t see Debian having that goal.

      • Titou@feddit.de
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        5 months ago

        There’s already an gui installer on Debian, what do you want ? The system to install himself without asking for your preferences ?

        • pmk@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
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          5 months ago

          I don’t know. It’s difficult for me to answer because I’m so used to the Debian installer. But, for some reason the general opinion is that it’s difficult for many compared to some other distros.

          • Titou@feddit.de
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            5 months ago

            More difficult because Debian rely more on the terminal than mint. The terminal is not a accessorie like on Windows, it’s part of basics Linux uses. In my opinion it’s important to learn how to be familiar with

            • pmk@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
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              5 months ago

              I think text based interfaces is a strength of unix-like systems, valuable tools to be used when the situation calls for it. It might be a lot to ask of new users to be familiar with terminals before they have even installed the system though. If Mint can get the same result with a GUI, I see no reason why Debian can’t offer that option too, and let users discover bash and TUI when they have a working system.

      • Sterling@lemmy.one
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        5 months ago

        You could check out Spiral Linux for an “easier” installer. It has the option to use the Calamares installer from the live USB instead of Debian’s default. Also comes preloaded with back port repositories and, I think, Nvidia drivers.

    • laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      5 months ago

      Gentoo and Arch do have easy installers (Arch via the Arch install script, Gentoo… Well, they provide stage 3 already built, a genkernel option, and even binary distribution now, which greatly simplifies the process)

      • Titou@feddit.de
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        5 months ago

        Arch install is not official and it’s not that stable, and what’s the point of using Gentoo if you don’t use the main reason to use it ?

        • laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          5 months ago

          Honestly, that one had me scratching my head too, I doubt I’d ever use the precompiled binaries on Gentoo myself

          The stage 3 tarballs and genkernel, though, make an install that could take a week or more down to a few hours; having successfully built a system from a stage 1 with customized kernel, that’s not an experience I feel a burning desire to go through again

  • Vincent@feddit.nl
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    5 months ago

    I’m on Fedora Silverblue, which is great now, but when I installed it, I remember thinking that its installer was way less intuitive than Ubuntu’s, and I think it also had fewer features (e.g. discovering existing operating systems and offering to install alongside it, IIRC?). I’ve seen screenshots of a new installer being in development, which looked like an improvement, but still not as smooth an experience as Ubuntu’s.

  • thezeesystem@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Probably the start menu back to what it should be. Back with distro windows xp.

    Wait no nvm wrong community.

  • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I usually use Fedora these days and I have few complaints but I sometimes miss the ArchWiki. Not that Federa isn’t well-documented — it obviously is well documented by nature of being a RedHat product — but people in the Arch community will sometimes make a whole page to document how they fixed a specific laptop model’s relatively unimportant hardware compatibility issue.

    • vaionko@sopuli.xyz
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      5 months ago

      I’m on Fedora too and quite often end up on the Arch wiki. A lot of the stuff there applies on other distros too.

  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Fedora’s installer is abysmal. There’s a number of installers it could learn from. They’re working on one at the moment, so I hope it’s good.

    Enabling access to proprietary software should also install audio/video codecs. Or at least have a separate checkbox for it, like (I believe) Ubuntu has.

    • penquin@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      The installer is the single one reason I can’t switch to fedora. I have several drives in my machine and I like to separate them, but their installer scares the shit out of me. I can pull it off for sure, but I just don’t want to take the risk

    • Domi@lemmy.secnd.me
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      Fedora’s installer is abysmal.

      I thought so too. It doesn’t have enough options for power users and too many for newcomers. It caters to a middleground that barely exists.

      Enabling access to proprietary software should also install audio/video codecs.

      The codecs are also the #1 thing that annoy me in Fedora. Because of shitty US patent laws the rest of the world has to suffer.

    • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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      5 months ago

      And know how to use an existing btrfs partition. And always [at least have an option to] show exactly what the automatic installer is going to do before I run anything. There’s gotta be a middle ground between “we’ll just surprise you” and “here, do everything yourself”.

      • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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        5 months ago

        OpenSUSE has a guided setup if ypu dont want a surprise or don’t know manual setups requires. then prior to starting givea you a summary of what qill be done.

          • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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            5 months ago

            Each one has good parts, but I think openSUSE did a lot to make things easier for new users to linux

            • Install, you see software summary, you can click and alter what patterns or packages you want included.
            • auto snapshots when you enter package manager or admin tools, easy rollback with snapper or boot list
            • a GTK front for all of YAST2-GUI components. All system, network, firewall, service, packages, boot and kernel config are available as GUI dialogs (as well as many others)