NATO is seeking to take control of decision-making powers on future aid packages — normally led by the US — in an effort to limit the impact of a potential second Donald Trump presidency on the ongoing conflict.
This is wild. It’s bad enough that the US president has the power to start wars wherever he wants with no congressional approval. But now they’re trying to make it so that the only people with the authority to withdraw from a conflict are unelected NATO officials accountable to no one.
Dronies will support this, because they love endless war across the globe and want to remove any potential for popular support to achieve peace.
And who’s gonna die this time
“Lol”, said the red white and blue scorpion. “Lmao”.
Which Congress?
Which do you think?
Exactly. People need to remember that this is the Internet, not their home country. We don’t know where you’re from.
You can use your powers of deductive reasoning to come to the correct answer.
Or maybe you can’t… lol.
There are two types of people. Those who can extrapolate a conclusion from an incomplete data set and
Without the support of Congress, it will be “difficult” for Ukraine to win, “even to stay,” Zelenskyy said in a video meeting with fundraising supporters, including Mark Hamill and billionaire Richard Branson.
Nightmare blunt rotation
Anyway, wow! You mean every time Russia was said to be slowing down or taking unsustainable levels of casualties wasn’t entirely true? Wow!
That was propaganda. Without it people would say “why wasting money if they will lose anyway?”
I think the weakness of Ukraine is also narrative.
Whatever narrative they push, it’s completely unrelated to the truth.
When they wanted western sympathy and when the western funds were rolling, it was the plucky tractor brigade killing Russians at $1.40 a kill.
Now that they aren’t getting another aid package, the front lines are about to collapse and Russia will be in Warsaw by summer.
It’s all bullshit. As in it’s unrelated to the truth. The truth has no relationship to what Zelenskyy says.
The fact Ukraine is starting to push an imminent collapse narrative is a key factor in me believing collapse is not in fact imminent.
You are right, you can’t use only information Ukraine or Russia provides. But it probably is the case that Ukraine was stomping Russia for pennies on the dollar earlier in the war. However, Russia is not a static force. They learn and change their tactics, and Russia spends more resources now than they did earlier.
It would be a grave mistake to stop aid to Ukraine while they are still willing and able to fight.
But it probably is the case that Ukraine was stomping Russia for pennies on the dollar earlier in the war.
When the aid was flowing the narrative was that this was a “good investment” which is why they sold you with this “pennies on the dollar” angle.
Put down the slava pipe and have a look at what the cost basis is for western military gear vs Russian stuff. It’s rarely better than 5:1 even for basic stuff like shells and advanced stuff runs at around 10:1. The idea that it was “pennies on the dollar” is crazy shit.
It’s all narrative. It doesn’t have a relationship to facts on the ground. It’s a sales pitch.
“Pennies on the dollar” refers more to the fact that we have mostly sent old equipment that’s already paid for and would otherwise never see the light of day, while also avoiding the use of any US/NATO manpower to massively undermine an adversary. It’s a great deal, i.e. pennies on the dollar.
I guess it’s edifer to just call everything a “narrative” though than try and understand current events.
It’s a great deal if you’re a monster who doesn’t pay any mind to the broken Ukrainian bodies littering the trenches for the past few years. More conscripts for the meat grinder, it’s cost-effective! Fucking ghouls, I swear.
And who’s to blame here? Have you considered blaming the invading force, or does it have to be the west for your sensibilities? Everything would be great if we all just rolled over when invaders arrive at the gates!
The West has spent many times Russias military budget and hundreds of thousands of soldiers only to lose the war.
Russia will likely gain several states worth of land.
Unsure how this is a “good deal”, even in the most psychopathic framing possible. I’d think that would mean Russia is getting the good deal in that case? They have spent far less and gained actual winnings.
“The west has spent many times Russia’s military budget” Source?
It would be a grave mistake to stop aid to Ukraine while they are still willing and able to fight.
While who is still willing to fight? The conscripted who are forced to fight or the neonazis who volunteered to fight?
pennies on the dollar
Psychopathic framing. “Look how efficiently we’re killing people!”
Also great example of conflating states with people. Maybe Ukraine still wants to fight, but Ukrainians are being conscripted against their will. In the same way, wearing Russia down may serve the interests of the US government, but it certainly doesn’t benefit the American people in any way. The best thing for the Ukrainian people would be to stop the killing at any cost, even if it meant territorial concessions. They could’ve saved countless lives if they’d done this from the start, and eventually that’s what’s going to happen anyway, but unfortunately countless people have died and countless more will before the ruling class decides to stop forcing the poor into the meat grinder.
How the fuck is my life supposed to be better because of dead Russian soldiers?
Do they mean that Mark Hamill?
The Luke Skywalker one? Yes. Notorious shitlib
Not just a shitlib but also a (probably inadvertent) nazi supporter.
He stans Israel so uniroincally yes he does support actual Nazis.
Not shocking being a Hollywood guy, though I do really like his work as Luke/The Jonkler
Everyone’s allowed a couple problematic faves. My favorite turn-brain-off movie is still Anchorman, even though they drop their first R-word about 90 seconds into the film.
Yes, no shit. That was the outlook from day 1.
The Russian Army is largely represented as a bunch of baffoons in the Western media, but it’s still one of the 3 largest armies in the world. Ukraine cannot hold their lines indefinitely, the only way to “win” against an opponent that has multiple times your materiel available is guerilla.
There’s no win for humanity through war against an opponent that has thousand of nukes. If one of the nuclear reactors in the region would had been seriously damaged you would be curse every cent that went into fueling this war. We are walking on a thin line already.
Yeah just let them invade us all, that’s the best option.
/s
We already let governments stock piling nukes and take away our freedom
Then guerilla it is!
What the fuck did you just say to me. Motherfucker?
People know the copypasta, you just said it wrong. The opening insult isn’t motherfucker.
I said your momma looks good in combat boots
Made the same mistake before too. Lemmy learning curve.
Eh it feels like a low effort Reddit response. Copypastas can stay there.
Thanks, Unidan.
Yeah… More Reddit stuff. No thanks.
UkraineUnited States is going to lose if Congress doesn’t send more aidlose what? the control of another country?
Control over Europe. Russia is funding far-right politicians in Europe.
$773 billion dollars last year spent on fighting “proxy” wars around the world (and if you count the spying, domestically).
The only one that America has actual moral footing to get behind is the only one we are pulling punches on.
Hardly the first time. I’d argue the US made the same mistake in Afghanistan in 2003, diverting resources to Iraq because Bush Jr. had such a hard-on for Saddam.
100%
With each passing day, Biden’s administration looks like the Bush administration’s bigger more right wing brother.
Citizens United needs to be overturned. The Pentagon budget needs to be at least halved. We need the 2 party system to end.
This will never happen if we keep voting for the lesser evil every 4 years.
I agree with the viewpoints, but many voted for the Russia supporting party, and noone else got enough support in the primaries. There needs to be massively increased primary involvement before a systemic change to move away from the two party system can be feasible. I’m a big fan of ranked choice voting myself, but what big party candidate is going to advocate for that in the current climate? I’m hoping changes can happen over the next decade as my generation and the one below get even more active.
Republicans are corrupted spoiled fucks.
Democrats are corrupted spoiled fucks.
How do you think “massively increased involvement” will occur if we keep throwing our votes at these massively corrupt spoiled fucks?
Peaceful abstaining. Quiet sit in. America on strike.
That is the only possible way we have to cause the change we needed at least 50 years ago.
I mean involvement of the voters themselves. I push a lot of my friends to just go vote, but they still won’t. If you figure out how to get people to actually want to fix the situation, let me know.
I know that in America, currently, “peaceful protester” is an officially classified terrorist group. That was what Occupy Wallstreet resulted in.
I have no idea what Blue MAGA is even suggesting when they say “get more involved in government outside of election season”. The concept doesn’t exist.
I definitely still vote on measures.
When my choices are vote for Genocide and continued severe loss of privacy of freedom A or Genocide and continued severe loss of privacy of freedom B, all I can figure is vote disenfranchised. Won’t check the damn box.
Primary results where people did that have already gotten Biden change his half hour chit chat with Bibi from “your US taxpayer dollars are on the way. The weapons you are buying with those dollars are on the way” to “your US taxpayer dollars are on the way. The weapons you are buying with those dollars are on the way, try to go easier on the civilians in Gaza.”
If Biden suffers a shameful and embarrassing defeat, maybe the next Democrat will figure out the correct answer is “fuck you Bibi, you genocidal maniac. Israel is cut off, that money will now be invested into fixing the healthcare crisis in America, our military is moving humanitarian aid into Gaza, and if your genocidal asshats so much as point a gun in the general direction of our soldiers and the starving citizens of Gaza, you will enjoy our crosshairs.”
mm, delicious bait! 😋 go on then, which proxy war does the US have “actual moral footing” to get behind?
Israel /s
Ukraine/Russia. Supporting Ukraine is objectively morally correct.
do i hear maga idiots get wet?
Hahaha I get it. It’s funny because the people you don’t like are implied to be women.
yawn. your type of ppl bore me so much.
anyway, it is funny because maga idiots think dating taylor is gay which actually would only be true if they were girls dressing like men. that is how I perceive maga idiots. or ppl like you.
I am nowhere near terminally online enough to understand a word of what you just said
girls dressing like men
As a transfem in a situation where I frequently have to present as a guy: thanks?
Guessing none of the other nations are doing anything either
Definately NOT proxy cannon fodder
That’s why Congress doesn’t want to send more aid.
Republicans are good buddies with Putin. If Trump would have been in power, he would have been selling weapons for the Russians, then play along with the whole “Ukrainians are actually Russians” stuff of Putin.
No reason to let the Russians capture more patriot batteries…
Well that sucks.
It doesn’t suck. Well, it does for the west.
Time to end the war and give peace a chance.
Yeah, giving the five bordering regions of Russia to Ukraine, including Belgorod would be the best compensation.
Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people, this attitude you and the rest of the West hold has lead them to utter disaster.
If you could back it up with actual military success, it’d be reasonable.
But instead, all of Europe and the US is about to lose to post Soviet Russia, and Ukraine has paid the price.
Yeah, that tends to happen when you get you provoke a war then get your shit stomped. All this could have been avoided if the West kept their dick out of the former Eastern Bloc over the last couple decades, but they didn’t, and this is where we ended up. We fucked up their country, and they get to pay the consequences for our actions.
The “I’m not hitting you! I’m not hitting you! Look! I’m not hitting you, nyah nyah!.. mmMMMMOOOOOMMMMMMMM HE HIT ME! HE STARTED IT!” defense doesn’t work if you’re a fucking country.
It is a bad idea to trust and rely on Ameeica. Some Afgans learned this lesson in 2021, the same is happening to Ukraine now.
Ukraine rely on a lot more than just the USA. But what else can they do? It’s either that or they get annexed.
Their are a small country versus a world power.
The region doesn’t rely on the US, the post-2014 fascist government does.
There wasn’t a problem here until the US-backed coup in 2014 and subsequent killing of eastern Ukrainians and Crimeans by the coup gov.
fascist
You mean Putin?
No yew
You know that Lemmy is the last sanctuary of the most insane people ridiculed everywhere else where you see comments like that having positive rating lol.
Feel free to point out what you disagree with.
One doesn’t go to a nuthouse to reason with patients :)
If the lead and microplastics in the water don’t take you out, overt collapse will; and I pray I get to watch it happen you absolute defect
So… no argument?
You replying seems to indicate otherwise.
Loving the ableism btw
Well, you spelled Ukraine correctly, I guess
ridiculed everywhere else
Just the anglosphere-dominated spaces like reddit that are full of US propaganda.
Just so many things wrong there…
- Ukraine became reliant on US military aid after Russia invaded in 2014 with the help of separatists they funded. The same strategy they have employed in Georgia and Moldova.
- There is zero evidence that the US did any coup in Ukraine. There is plenty for it being a revolution against Yanukovych after he broke his election promises and brutally supressed protests caused by that. That in turn triggered a full blown revolution.
- The Minsk agreements were never honored by Russia as one of the clauses was for Russia to remove their troops from the regions, which never happened.
- Post 2014 those regions were occupied by Russia. Ukraine was fighting against an occupation, not bombing civilians for fun.
- Eastern Ukraine has never wanted to join Russia, it was occupied in 2014. Yanukovych was elected with the promise of closer economic ties with Europe, not Russia.
How is not a single part of your post true? Debunking bullshit always takes longer but I guess that’s the strategy with disinformation.
Apparently the mods on lemmy.ml support Russian disinformation as this got removed with the comment “Misinfo-see nuland/pyatt call”. I have heard that call in its full context as it gets brought up as the only evidence. What it actually ended up being were 2 US politicians discussing that the most likely person to take over as Yanukovych fled took over. Literally anyone familiar with the politics in Ukraine can come to the same conclusion.
Many such cases!
Gaddafi’s is just sad. Such a terrible decision to give up their nuclear deterrence and trust western governments.
Nukes are why the DPRK hasn’t been invaded again, and why it hasn’t ended up Libya is now.
Ukraine gave up their nukes in exchange for peace with Russia, then got invaded by Russia.
they weren’t ukrainian nukes. they were soviet nukes and ukraine didn’t have the money or expertise to take care of them.
I wouldn’t put it that way exactly. Ukraine was a constituent part of the USSR, and eastern Ukraine was a major industrial hub. I don’t know the history of it, but perhaps giving the nukes to Russia was part of the deal made in the Post-Soviet transition in Ukraine.
Russia inherited the Soviet military for the most part. It’s unlikely that Ukraine could have used those nukes in the first place.
Ukraine was very much at peace with Russia as it always had been before the 2014 coup and the resulting fascist gov that didn’t care about such agreements.
The fascist government is the one invading Ukraine, my guy.
How many times are we going to go over this, my guy?
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Truthout, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- The Conversation, 2022: Ukraine war follows decades of warnings that NATO expansion into Eastern Europe could provoke Russia
OK, there are fascists in Ukraine, like in a lot of countries. How does it give Russia the right to invade and carry out a genocide?
Did Libya have a substantial development program?
Sad, but true
Gaddafi is another example yes, but let’s not have any sympathy for a horrible dictator that tortured and abused his subjects to the point where they sodomized him with a bayonet.
subjects
You mean insurgents funded by the west after having them give up their nuclear deterrence because it posed a major threat to capitalism/imperialism in the region.
Libya went from one of the poorest countries in the world to having the highest human development index in Africa by 2010 under the socialist government. Housing and healthcare were made a human right and youth literacy reached pretty much 100%.
Yes, I’ll have sympathy for the country that was basically extorted by the west through brutal sanctions into disarming itself so it could be invaded and destroyed, as any human should.
He made it better for Arabs, everyone else was treated horribly. But hey I guess being a dictator is fine as long as the people you like are being treated okay and fuck everyone else. How very Modi of you.
everyone else was treated horribly
Who was everyone else?
But hey I guess being a dictator
Libya in Gadafi’s time was more democratic than the United States has ever been. Libya: How To Kill a Nation
When Five Eyes governments and corporate media tell you who is and isn’t a “dictator,” they do it to manufacture consent for regime change.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
[citation needed]
Gaddafi was a leader in the liberation struggle against the Global North’s imperialism.
It was Gaddafi who was sodomized with a bayonet. Wikipedia: Killing of Muammar Gaddafi
The NTC initially claimed Gaddafi died from injuries sustained in a firefight when loyalist forces attempted to free him, although a video of his last moments shows rebel fighters beating him and one of them sodomizing him with a bayonet before he was shot several times.
In typical US fashion, it fabricated atrocities as a pretext for regime change: 2011 Libyan rape allegations
Three women, loads of lies and the destruction of Libya
Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and Samantha Power were the three principal advocates of war against Libya in 2011, setting the North African nation on a free fall ever since. Demonstrations broke out in some Libyan cities against the government of late Muammar Gaddafi in February 2011, in what became known as the “Arab Spring” that engulfed the region. However, Libya’s promised spring turned into a destructive autumn during which Gaddafi was murdered on 20 October, 2011, and Libya was left anguishing in lawlessness, courtesy of the three women.
The US does this all the time; it’s still doing it. The blueprint of regime change operations
Fight for “democracy” /s
Eat shit
I thought that’s what Russians/Republicans were banking on?
